25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ladyofpayne]

I hope fro blue love with Jackob. Dark shocolate. MMMMMMMMMM

[Siansonea]

bleetman wrote...

I shouldn't think it'd be necessary to spell it out, but it's probably worth addressing. What I wouldn't want to see is a character explaining why they're available now in terms of contrasting it with opposite-gender-Shepard. As in, an explanation tied into the plot events and only if necessary, rather than one ostentatiously being there to explain why man-Shepard got to jump their bones the last time, but fem-Shepard didn't. Or the other way around. I wouldn't want, say, Miranda explaining the situation just for the sake of it, for no other reason than because she was available for men in ME2 but not for women, and this is an irregularity that must be justified.

That didn't feel like it made much sense as I wanted it to. Meh.

*snip*

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Miranda's explanation in this case would exist for meta-game reasons, and her explanation would seem to come out of left-field from an in-game standpoint.

[shepskisaac]

ArawnNox wrote...
The rejecting Kaiden scenes are pretty well handled, too as he takes it as "miss-reading signals". Its something I'm familiar with: "Oh, hey, I think she likes me! Oh, wait, she's just being nice...."

Exactly. He also suggests that if he knew Shep was a lesbian he wouldn't even try flirt with her.

[ArawnNox]

jlb524 wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

General question: if previous characters are elaborated upon to express romantic interest in a Shepard of either sex, would you prefer it if this be dealt with explicitly or implicitly?

As in, would you favour a scene in which Miranda explains why she wouldn't previously pursue a relationship with a female Shepard, or one in which the subject isn't rendered an issue?

I'm not sure it should be an issue, simply b/c Female Shepard doesn't know Miranda was available to romance this "Male Shepard" person in ME2. 

Maybe femshep hadn't grown on Miranda in that period of time (I, at least, spend most of the game harping on Cerberus, so that could put her off).

[TheMarshal]

Siansonea II wrote...

For me also, I'd like for Shep to be able to make overtures to non-receptive NPCs, and get shot down. I'd like to role-play Shepard as being able to express interest in a character, and have the character be able to refuse Shepard's advances if Shepard isn't his/her type—for whatever reason. I don't think it should always be a sexuality issue either. Some people might not like Shepard's shady dealings with Cerberus, or the Alliance background, or maybe they have an issue with a decision that Shepard made that affected them, directly or indirectly. I know that would be complicated from a programming standpoint, but it would be very engaging, I think. Plus I have a douchebag/Renegade/Ladies' Man Infiltrator who really should be hitting on everything in a skirt, and he's been a tad too much of a "serial monogamist" in the first two games. 

While I'd like to see a system for rejection (for whatever reason) built in to a game with romances, I can understand why they don't.

[jtav]

Implicit. It's the bloody 22nd century.

[Siansonea]

The Uncanny wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

I agree with the last one. It shouldn't be an issue because Shep wouldn't know otherwise.

That's a really good point. Sometimes people just fall for each other even if they've known each other for years. There isn't any real need to say 'Hey... why didn't we jump into bed together at point x?'

It didn't happen then. It happened now. Simple as that.

I wouldn't mind a brief exchange along the lines of "What took us so long?" from the LI, with Shepard being able to make a series of choices along the lines of "I guess the time wasn't right," "Who knows?" and "I was playing hard to get, I knew you wanted me." Or something similar, with the LI able to make a follow-up response, and then the matter is dropped. In reality, it's probably not something that would be discussed to death between two longtime friends who found themselves on the same page at last.  

[jlb524]

Siansonea II wrote...

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Miranda's explanation in this case would exist for meta-game reasons, and her explanation would seem to come out of left-field from an in-game standpoint.

So, I guess the question is:  would everyone need an explanation for meta-game reasons?

[ArawnNox]

Which would be more jarring? A lengthy explanation or no explanation at all?

[Maugrim]

ArawnNox wrote...

Which would be more jarring? A lengthy explanation or no explanation at all?

A lengthy explanation would just be out of place.

[TheMarshal]

jlb524 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Miranda's explanation in this case would exist for meta-game reasons, and her explanation would seem to come out of left-field from an in-game standpoint.

So, I guess the question is:  would everyone need an explanation for meta-game reasons?

"But we're both women!" 

[Siansonea]

ArawnNox wrote...

Which would be more jarring? A lengthy explanation or no explanation at all?

Honestly, for me, a lengthy explanation would be more jarring. It would seem artificial to me.

[Siansonea]

TheMarshal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Miranda's explanation in this case would exist for meta-game reasons, and her explanation would seem to come out of left-field from an in-game standpoint.

So, I guess the question is:  would everyone need an explanation for meta-game reasons?

"But we're both women!" 

That is a dialog option in ME1, but again, it is a dialog option. Each option gives us an opportunity to further define our Shepard, and that one is no exception. I wouldn't mind more options like this, but I'd like them to be coupled with remarks that affirm Shepard's bisexuality or homosexuality. It's just another opportunity for me to customize my Shepard, which I always welcome. 

[ArawnNox]

Siansonea II wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Miranda's explanation in this case would exist for meta-game reasons, and her explanation would seem to come out of left-field from an in-game standpoint.

So, I guess the question is:  would everyone need an explanation for meta-game reasons?

"But we're both women!" 

That is a dialog option in ME1, but again, it is a dialog option. Each option gives us an opportunity to further define our Shepard, and that one is no exception. I wouldn't mind more options like this, but I'd like them to be coupled with remarks that affirm Shepard's bisexuality or homosexuality. It's just another opportunity for me to customize my Shepard, which I always welcome. 

Like in my current game when my fem!Shep told Kaiden: "Just remember, I saw her first."
Kaiden's reaction was kinda priceless, "They... say asari are into that sort of thing...." Awkward!*

[shepskisaac]

Could some good soul explain what "meta-gaming reasons" mean/are? ;P

[The Uncanny]

makenzieshepard wrote...

ArawnNox wrote...

Which would be more jarring? A lengthy explanation or no explanation at all?

A lengthy explanation would just be out of place.

Agreed! You'd be able to hear the crunching of changing gears. 

Redundant dialogue is redundant.

[jlb524]

TheMarshal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Miranda's explanation in this case would exist for meta-game reasons, and her explanation would seem to come out of left-field from an in-game standpoint.

So, I guess the question is:  would everyone need an explanation for meta-game reasons?

"But we're both women!" 

No!  I'm not a woman, though!  Seriously!  We can still date!

*smooth Liara...smooth*

[ArawnNox]

IsaacShep wrote...

Could some good soul explain what "meta-gaming reasons" mean/are? ;P

Meta-gaming is a term from table-top RPGs. It's when out of character knowledge affects in-character behavior.

For example: We know someone is going to die on Vermir and we end up playing the game preparing for that (not making Kaiden and ashley our primary squadmates, not persuing or deliberatly persuing their romance, etc).

[ArawnNox]

jlb524 wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Miranda's explanation in this case would exist for meta-game reasons, and her explanation would seem to come out of left-field from an in-game standpoint.

So, I guess the question is:  would everyone need an explanation for meta-game reasons?

"But we're both women!" 

No!  I'm not a woman, though!  Seriously!  We can still date!

*smooth Liara...smooth*

"I didn't know you prefer other women..."
"Technically, I'm not female."
"Yeah, but you look... never mind."

[Siansonea]

IsaacShep wrote...

Could some good soul explain what "meta-gaming reasons" mean/are? ;P

I may not be a "good soul", but I'll take a crack at it:

For me there is a distinction between character point-of-view and player point-of-view. For instance, in the first game, the player sees a short cutscene of Saren and Matriarch Benezia discussing the beacon on Eden Prime. But the player character Commander Shepard has no knowledge of this exchange. So the player has a meta-perspective that Shepard the character lacks. Similarly, in multiple playthroughs, the player has knowledge of how events unfold if different choices are made in the game. But for Shepard, all he/she knows is what he/she chose to do in that game, and what he/she experienced directly (again, scenes that don't involve Shepard are situations Shepard has no knowledge of). I don't know if I explained it well enough, but it's a good jumping-off point at least.

Edited to add: Ninja'd, and more concisely even. 

Modifié par Siansonea II, 16 juin 2011 - 05:59 .

[ArawnNox]

Siansonea II wrote...
*snip*
Edited to add: Ninja'd, and more concisely even. 

<3

[Aurellia]

For what it's worth I posted the following in the Same Sex could be a disaster thread

http://social.biowar...4246/13#7656567

In hope to try to build some common ground.

I like the fact they are leaving that thread open.  Even though I am strongly in favor of SS LI with some of the existing characters I think there is a reasonable point we should concede and I am sorry for going a little off topic.

Given the current state of society, men who are uncomfortable with homosexuality will likely experience discomfort in learning that their best friend is bisexual because this may draw their own sense of sexuality into question.  We can all hope for a different society where this is not the case but for now this is the way things are.

I think we can go a long way to bridging this situation if we acknowledge that such players should be able to play the game their way as long as they also acknowledge that we want to play the game our way.  I think there is room for common ground.  

To exaggerate a bit,  It isn't any more fair to make every male LI a "teaching moment" for heterosexual men by making them bisexual and requiring male players confront whatever whatever issues they may have with learning their best friend is BI, than it is to say GLBT players should just experience a world that has only discount lesbians (Liara) and token same sex love interests.  This also goes for female players but in my observations of people learning their best friend is bi it tends to be much more of an issue for males.

I hope others here can join me in trying to find a common ground with other players and we can leave the nuts/trolls on both sides as fodder for the mods:)

[bleetman]

I have no real interest in pandering to the whims of the ignorant. I'm just a bit of a dick like that.

Modifié par bleetman, 16 juin 2011 - 06:16 .

[Siansonea]

Aurellia wrote...

For what it's worth I posted the following in the Same Sex could be a disaster thread

http://social.biowar...4246/13#7656567

In hope to try to build some common ground.

I like the fact they are leaving that thread open.  Even though I am strongly in favor of SS LI with some of the existing characters I think there is a reasonable point we should concede and I am sorry for going a little off topic.

Given the current state of society, men who are uncomfortable with homosexuality will likely experience discomfort in learning that their best friend is bisexual because this may draw their own sense of sexuality into question.  We can all hope for a different society where this is not the case but for now this is the way things are.

I think we can go a long way to bridging this situation if we acknowledge that such players should be able to play the game their way as long as they also acknowledge that we want to play the game our way.  I think there is room for common ground.  

To exaggerate a bit,  It isn't any more fair to make every male LI a "teaching moment" for heterosexual men by making them bisexual and requiring male players confront whatever whatever issues they may have with learning their best friend is BI, than it is to say GLBT players should just experience a world that has only discount lesbians (Liara) and token same sex love interests.  This also goes for female players but in my observations of people learning their best friend is bi it tends to be much more of an issue for males.

I hope others here can join me in trying to find a common ground with other players and we can leave the nuts/trolls on both sides as fodder for the mods:)

I see what you're saying. Don't you agree that having Shepard select the option to pursue the dialog as sufficient? By simply not selecting that option, the player in question doesn't even have to think about it. It's just one of a series of never-explored dialogue trees. For me, that's sufficient, and anything more involved than that seems disproportionate to me. That's my take anyway. By the same token, though, I'm not opposed to Anders-style "please love meh ManShep!" from an NPC, because it's a pretty simple matter for the player to say "how about no". Again, that's just my opinion. 

[LiquidGrape]

Well, I do think we're doing a decent job of finding middle-ground here as it is.
That is, advocating some degree of fair representation.

The potential discomfort select few people might experience, induced by the presence of same sex attraction in characters already introduced, is really not something we should concern ourselves with.

Asking for some degree of quality, however, I'll definitely agree is a worthwhile goal.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 16 juin 2011 - 06:15 .