25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

I believe default always saves o/s VS no reason to change that. Plus trial will act as a SGG..

[ElitePinecone]

jeweledleah wrote...

one thing I disagree with is the idea that having 4 fresh romances is not enough (Sam, Steve, James, Liara). in ME1 you had 1 o/s romance for each gender and then you had Liara. in DA2 you had 4 romansable characters total. in KOTOR it was one per gender. in DAO it was 4 romancable characters again. if the spoilers are correct, assuming that only new romances are available the only thing that's skewed is that instead of a single s/s option with 2 o/s options like in DAO, you get a single o/s option with 2 s/s ones.

ME2 was the only game that offered extra LI's and the arcs suffered for it.

now they may still offer more choices for new players regardless, but bear in mind that only one VS can be alive at any time, so the LI numbers are STILL skewed for new players. unless they decided to go with the default Virmire survivor and make them O/S romance to give people that second o/s choice?

anyways, the point I was trying to make is that 4 romancable characters is not too few choices, its bioware's standard.

Sam and Steve are almost certainly purely s/s options, though. That's *never* been done in Bioware games, Juhani aside. 

Your average dudebro maleShep would have Liara and Kelly (if she survived), and no other new LIs, Allers isn't even counted as a formal option. 

A straight femShep would have Vega, and that's it.

The VS is just about requied if you want to give players more than one o/s choice. Maybe back in Mass Effect days that made sense, but ME2 and ME3 are much bigger games. 

For all we know ME2 broke the mould permanently, at least for Mass Effect games. Bigger budgets equal more time spent on characterisation (the ME3 script excerpts are huge), and as we've seen they apparently have the zots to put in purely gay and lesbian LIs. 

[Ryzaki]

Assuming of course that the devs don't decide that Steve and Samantha are better off bisexual.

[KawaiiKatie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Assuming of course that the devs don't decide that Steve and Samantha are better off bisexual.

I hope they don't! Come on, Bioware, you already had eight heterosexual love interests and an entire race of Blue Bisexuals, so could you please, please just give us two homosexuals heroes that fight alongside everyone else to save the galaxy? Pleeeeease?

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 19 novembre 2011 - 06:35 .

[JeffZero]

Really hopin' you guys and gals get a fully gay LI for ME3. Straights and bis are now pretty well represented (OK, us straights were always pretty well represented, but you know what I mean) but we really ought to see a couple of gays to round everything out.

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

Assuming of course that the devs don't decide that Steve and Samantha are better off bisexual.

Does it matter beyond being able to laugh at those who are mad b/c they can't romance them?

I do admit that could be entertaining.

But I doubt most who play straight Shepards will care considering they have a ton of others to pick from.

[Ryzaki]

To me it does. It means ME actually decides to show various sexualities and not just straight and bisexual. -

Being able to laugh at those who are mad b/c they can't romance them is just a bonus.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:36 .

[Ravensword]

It usually seems like bisexuals are a step ahead to homosexuals. W/ the exception of gay marriage and lack thereof in most states, lesbian and bisexual women seems to be a step ahead gay and bisexual women. Maybe not when it comes to most issues but it seems that most people have a more liberal view of former while the latter gets shafted by apathy. Why weren't the Asari monogendered race of attractive male pansexuals?

Modifié par Ravensword, 19 novembre 2011 - 04:54 .

[jlb524]

Well, in BW games, bisexual LIs have been present over homosexual LIs due to resource considerations. I just wish they'd do the same with heterosexual-only LIs and make them all open to both genders. I know they won't do that in ME3 but I hope they do in future games.

[Ravensword]

Indeed.

[syllogi]

If this were a book or a movie, I'd definitely be in favor of showing more diversity in sexual orientations, but these are video games, where the most hideous looking and viciously evil character can romance anyone, as long as they pick the right dialogue options and choose the right gender when they begin the game. All romance options should be available to all player characters, no matter what their gender, as long as games are not discriminating based on other criteria.

I'd actually like it if characters turned you down if you weren't attractive enough, or had a terrible personality even if you lied to get into their pants. But until then, it makes no sense to keep certain romances exclusive to one gender or the other.

And I really don't care what other people are doing in their games, if I'm having fun in mine. What does it matter?

[jlb524]

I agree 100% TZ.

I also look at this from the perspective of this being a game and having more choices in this game is a good thing (it's what most people want).

Even if they are adding in homosexual-only LIs, the fact remains that homosexual PCs still have less choice than heterosexual ones (I won't mention bisexual PCs b/c they will typically always have more choices by default of being open) and choice is what's important. For someone who's not interested in non-squad mate romances (like me), the choices are even less.   The Kelly romance had some cute moments, but her character wasn't nearly as developed or as interesting as the squad mate characters.  I fear these 'gay only non-squad mate' LIs will be similar and they're pretty much in the game just for romance.

Modifié par jlb524, 19 novembre 2011 - 05:19 .

[Chun Hei]

I remember watching a Fox Movie Channel interview with an older director (I forgot his name) and he was commenting that when he was younger he would always be surprised how many Asian and Black actors would show up for "normal" roles that were not advertised as minorities. He said that George Romero pointed out to him that unless the "normal" roles had scenes that only made sense if the characters were White there was no reason why the "normal" movie character could not be played by a minority actor.

I take a similar view with LIs in video games. Unless there is a story based reason why a LI should be "straight" or "gay" then s/he should be "bi" or "hero-sexual" by default. For all the homophobic nerd rage against DA2 it was the game to introduce a LI who had a story based reason for being celibate or "straight" only (Sebastian).

[ElitePinecone]

jlb524 wrote...

I agree 100% TZ.

I also look at this from the perspective of this being a game and having more choices in this game is a good thing (it's what most people want).

Even if they are adding in homosexual-only LIs, the fact remains that homosexual PCs still have less choice than heterosexual ones (I won't mention bisexual PCs b/c they will typically always have more choices by default of being open) and choice is what's important. For someone who's not interested in non-squad mate romances (like me), the choices are even less.   The Kelly romance had some cute moments, but her character wasn't nearly as developed or as interesting as the squad mate characters.  I fear these 'gay only non-squad mate' LIs will be similar and they're pretty much in the game just for romance.

They have extensive amounts of dialogue. 

Steve serves as the shuttle pilot and Samantha as the communications specialist - they both have missions of their own at some point in the game, and they do affect the outcome of the story and the war. 

They might not be in combat. sure, but they do have a story role. 

I wouldn't take Kelly's romance as inspiration - it has a fraction of the lines I've seen for these two. 

[Saybian]

*Off Topic*
I just tried to created a thread similar to this on the SWTOR forums and it was closed after less then two pages.  I'm not sure why, besides one person who posted a negative comment everything else was just a civil discussion about SS romance being introduced post launch, how it would be implimented, etc.  I think its pretty sad when a community can't talk about an aspect of game play that we know is going to be in the game.  

*On Topic*
The only reason I pre ordered Mass Effect 3 is because of the SS content.  I had never even heard of or played any mass effect game until I found out about the SS content in the 3rd installment.  The gameplay isn't normally what I go for in an RPG.  I really like the characters and story so far though (I'm working my way though the first game now) and I'm excited to see how the story progresses though all the games.  I guess I'm playing it more like a interactive novel then for the gameplay

[jlb524]

ElitePinecone wrote...

They have extensive amounts of dialogue. 

Steve serves as the shuttle pilot and Samantha as the communications specialist - they both have missions of their own at some point in the game, and they do affect the outcome of the story and the war. 

They might not be in combat. sure, but they do have a story role. 

I wouldn't take Kelly's romance as inspiration - it has a fraction of the lines I've seen for these two. 

Their role will always be relatively limited considering they're stuck on the ship.

Do they have a lot of non-romance lines?

[garden girl]

Reading the posts above about "bisexual" characters/LI's got me thinking:

If a character becomes romance-able only by Sheppard starting the conversation (in other words, the NPC doesn't make the first romantic move), then is the character really BI, or are you just role playing them as gay or straight on that particular playthrough? The universe is defined by how you play the game, so do the options you don't pick really exist? Is claiming a character is BI the same thing as saying that Shep killed BOTH Ashley and Kaiden on Virmire?

[slimgrin]

garden girl wrote...

Reading the posts above about "bisexual" characters/LI's got me thinking:

If a character becomes romance-able only by Sheppard starting the conversation (in other words, the NPC doesn't make the first romantic move), then is the character really BI, or are you just role playing them as gay or straight on that particular playthrough? The universe is defined by how you play the game, so do the options you don't pick really exist? Is claiming a character is BI the same thing as saying that Shep killed BOTH Ashley and Kaiden on Virmire?

This is exactly my problem with the idea. The player shouldn't be role playing the NPC's.

[syllogi]

slimgrin wrote...

garden girl wrote...

Reading the posts above about "bisexual" characters/LI's got me thinking:

If a character becomes romance-able only by Sheppard starting the conversation (in other words, the NPC doesn't make the first romantic move), then is the character really BI, or are you just role playing them as gay or straight on that particular playthrough? The universe is defined by how you play the game, so do the options you don't pick really exist? Is claiming a character is BI the same thing as saying that Shep killed BOTH Ashley and Kaiden on Virmire?

This is exactly my problem with the idea. The player shouldn't be role playing the NPC's.

But *any* interaction with an NPC could be seen as changing their role, or role playing them.  If I don't romance anyone, their role is different than if they're my character's love interest, no matter what the gender and sexual orientation of either character.  

The player is an active shaper of the world around them in video games, especially RPGs.  That's how it is in every other aspect of gameplay.

[jeweledleah]

that's not the way I see it, personally. if you know someone who is bisexual for example but you remain platonic friends. does it change their sexual orientation just because you are not romantically involved?

you are not changing npc's you are only changing your relationship with npc's.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

TeenZombie wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

garden girl wrote...

Reading the posts above about "bisexual" characters/LI's got me thinking:

If a character becomes romance-able only by Sheppard starting the conversation (in other words, the NPC doesn't make the first romantic move), then is the character really BI, or are you just role playing them as gay or straight on that particular playthrough? The universe is defined by how you play the game, so do the options you don't pick really exist? Is claiming a character is BI the same thing as saying that Shep killed BOTH Ashley and Kaiden on Virmire?

This is exactly my problem with the idea. The player shouldn't be role playing the NPC's.

But *any* interaction with an NPC could be seen as changing their role, or role playing them.  If I don't romance anyone, their role is different than if they're my character's love interest, no matter what the gender and sexual orientation of either character.  

The player is an active shaper of the world around them in video games, especially RPGs.  That's how it is in every other aspect of gameplay.

There's a difference between what always was, and changes due to player actions. Virmire is the latter, you left one of the VS, they died, simple, no butterfly effect even involved. Now unless you're claiming Shepard got Kaidan interested in men or femshep turned him gay(god forbid), the sexual orientation of a character is the former, not the latter.

[outmane]

slimgrin wrote...

garden girl wrote...

Reading the posts above about "bisexual" characters/LI's got me thinking:

If a character becomes romance-able only by Sheppard starting the conversation (in other words, the NPC doesn't make the first romantic move), then is the character really BI, or are you just role playing them as gay or straight on that particular playthrough? The universe is defined by how you play the game, so do the options you don't pick really exist? Is claiming a character is BI the same thing as saying that Shep killed BOTH Ashley and Kaiden on Virmire?

This is exactly my problem with the idea. The player shouldn't be role playing the NPC's.

The player roleplays the NPCs all the time. Romantic story arcs come to mind particularly easily but its not the only instance. Once youve played the game for the first time every other playthrough is influenced by that knowledge and youre just writing the story you want to see.

Specifically in the case of ME's interactive 'romances' the player is always the one projecting the attraction of the NPC toward his character. No matter if the romance is o/s or s/s. For example, Miranda cant turn down a MShep cause she doesnt find him attractive or dislikes his personality.

[Ryzaki]

Which is ridiculous.

Renedouche should be getting turned down CONSTANTLY. Yet it never happens!

And Jesus Shep should've gotten turned down by Jack and Miranda yet still NEVER happens!

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Another weird example is how Jack either refuses to kill that bloke or insists on it depending on what you choose. Either that or she's just a stubborn b*tch,

[Ryzaki]

Yeah it's like she did that just to be contrary.