25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Abispa]

Olive Oomph wrote...

Also being bisexual doesn't mean that you get to f*ck or even want to f*ck everyone.

LIES! I know those gay and bisexual guys are just WAITING for ME3 to come out so they can try to fondle Sheploo's delicate body and stare obsessively at his crotch!

Kooties! Run away! Run away!

Modifié par Abispa, 20 novembre 2011 - 10:51 .

[slimgrin]

Abispa wrote...

@ jlb524 -- He is either unwilling or unable to read or comprehend your post.

slimgrin has now taken up the mantle of "master of reality" for ME. Hopefully his title can sustain him, because I now refuse to feed him.

If you and Jlb524 are done with the reach around bit, maybe you could explain why the heroic defenders of this thread haven't advocated a gay character.

[jlb524]

slimgrin wrote...

If you and Jlb524 are done with the reach around bit, maybe you could explain why the heroic defenders of this thread haven't advocated a gay character.

If you would have read any of my posts, you would know that I'm fine with restrictions on sexuality (including gay only or straight only characters) as long as other realistic restrictions on romances are implemented (again, I called that 'Option 2').

[Ryzaki]

Oh please.

I would be happy with a gay character. That doesn't change the fact that unless BW places 7 gay characters (probably more) in game there will not be an equal amount of choices unless some characters are made bisexual.

[FoxHound109]

Abispa wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Are gays and bi's not a minority now? 

Depends on what you consider to be sexuality. In all honesty, there's a likelihood that most humans are bisexual to some degree or another. I would probably argue that bisexuality is the standard of most organisms, rather than hetero or homosexuality. Social attitudes and a need to label everything and discriminate (not in the derogatory form, but to separate for the sake of understanding) probably prevent more people from admitting that possibility. 

I'm not sure I agree, but that really doesn't matter. An DA2-style "all bi" or "hero-sexual" formula is the best way for RPG makers with limited resources who WANT to cater to all persuasions to do so. If they want to invest resources in a large number of restricted options, like they did in ME2, then be prepared to have Garrus tell you he's busy calibrating or Miranda telling you she has a lot of paperwork to get through.

I figured most people wouldn't, but I thought I'd throw that out there. My general point is that the argument of realism banks on the idea that these things mentioned are proven fact, when in reality, we still don't even know everything there is to known about human sexuality to begin with. But think about it for a second: when you study history it is important to NEVER apply the terms ****** or heterosexual to historical figures/societies because their concepts of sexuality were interely different. In fact, the notion of exclusive homosexuality or heterosexuality and the labels themselves are relatively modern. But this is a debate for another time; I think I'm reaching somewhere out of the boundaries of what we're talking about. I was just hoping to illustrate a point.

But yes, I think all bisexual L.I.'s makes the best sense: everyone gets to have whoever they want, there isn't a need to work so hard and put so many resources into all the characters, etc. It's win-win if you're talking about the most logical and cost effective solution.

[Abispa]

slimgrin wrote...

Abispa wrote...

@ jlb524 -- He is either unwilling or unable to read or comprehend your post.

slimgrin has now taken up the mantle of "master of reality" for ME. Hopefully his title can sustain him, because I now refuse to feed him.

If you and Jlb524 are done with the reach around bit, maybe you could explain why the heroic defenders of this thread haven't advocated a gay character.

You have proved the opening line of my quoted passage.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

slimgrin wrote...

Abispa wrote...

@ jlb524 -- He is either unwilling or unable to read or comprehend your post.

slimgrin has now taken up the mantle of "master of reality" for ME. Hopefully his title can sustain him, because I now refuse to feed him.

If you and Jlb524 are done with the reach around bit, maybe you could explain why the heroic defenders of this thread haven't advocated a gay character.

Oh no you didn't! Sorry. It'd be less of that kind of moment if you weren't using that on gays.

Anyway,

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

This isn't going to end well.

Can't we just agree that what's believable is subjective? There's no point to taking this beyond a debate since we're not affecting Bioware.

Modifié par fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:08 .

[slimgrin]

Abispa wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Abispa wrote...

@ jlb524 -- He is either unwilling or unable to read or comprehend your post.

slimgrin has now taken up the mantle of "master of reality" for ME. Hopefully his title can sustain him, because I now refuse to feed him.

If you and Jlb524 are done with the reach around bit, maybe you could explain why the heroic defenders of this thread haven't advocated a gay character.

You have proved the opening line of my quoted passage.

This thread proves that the G/L/B community is too rigid and old fashioned to accept an approach that might exclude their precious romance options.

[jlb524]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...
Can't we just agree that what's believable is subjective? There's no point to taking this beyond a debate since we're not affecting Bioware.

I'm arguing about what's fair, not believable.

slimgrin wrote...
This thread proves that the G/L/B community is too rigid and old fashioned to accept an approach that might exclude their precious romance options.

Yet again, you miss the point that people are fine with limited options as long as it's realistic and fair across the board.

Modifié par jlb524, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:15 .

[Abispa]

jlb524 wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...
Can't we just agree that what's believable is subjective? There's no point to taking this beyond a debate since we're not affecting Bioware.

I'm arguing about what's fair, not believable.

And I'm arguing what I believe is Bioware's best option for catering to s/s LI fans with what it has called "limited resources." Not because I want to force them do something they don't want to do, but because the company has said that it DOES want to cater to s/s LI fans in a way that gives more options for everyone.

This thread, as well as the Miranda, Ashley, Kaidan and Vega threads have shown that a lot of straight guys like to play lesbian Shepards and that a lot of women like to play gay Shepards. S/s LIs aren't just about catering to the gheyz. I have no idea how many straight men and women play gay heroes of the same gender, but I'm sure they exist.

Modifié par Abispa, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:23 .

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

jlb524 wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...
Can't we just agree that what's believable is subjective? There's no point to taking this beyond a debate since we're not affecting Bioware.

I'm arguing about what's fair, not believable.

But you're basing your idea that it is unfair on how the other aspects of it aren't believable as well.

[AgentMrOrange]

Argument: It’s unfair that my shep can’t have a s/s romance with *insert charters name here*
Solution makes all LI bi also saves money
Complaint it to unrealistic
Solution add more LI make them gay bi and straight
Problem see first argument
WARNING PARDOX DETECTED !

[jlb524]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...
Can't we just agree that what's believable is subjective? There's no point to taking this beyond a debate since we're not affecting Bioware.

I'm arguing about what's fair, not believable.

But you're basing your idea that it is unfair on how the other aspects of it aren't believable as well.

I think we all agree on what is and isn't believable.

LIs ignoring gender, morality, appearance, etc and romancing the PC regardless?  Not realistic.  Adding in checks for these and not having all LIs open no matter who the PC is?  Realistic. 

No one is disputing that, I think.

The real issue is:  is it fair that the only check made is gender while all the other things that break realism and destroy 'story consistency' or whatver are allowed?

Modifié par jlb524, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:33 .

[slimgrin]

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Argument: It’s unfair that my shep can’t have a s/s romance with *insert charters name here*
Solution makes all LI bi also saves money
Complaint it to unrealistic
Solution add more LI make them gay bi and straight
Problem see first argument
WARNING PARDOX DETECTED !

This scenario is fixed by the writers deciding who gets to romance who. Not the player.

[AgentMrOrange]

slimgrin wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Argument: It’s unfair that my shep can’t have a s/s romance with *insert charters name here*
Solution makes all LI bi also saves money
Complaint it to unrealistic
Solution add more LI make them gay bi and straight
Problem see first argument
WARNING PARDOX DETECTED !

This scenario is fixed by the writers deciding who gets to romance who. Not the player.

If I don’t care about the romance options given to me why
should I buy there game

Fan feedback is extremely important to a successful game
series

Or you end up with a game like Metroid other m 

[Chun Hei]

slimgrin wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Argument: It’s unfair that my shep can’t have a s/s romance with *insert charters name here*
Solution makes all LI bi also saves money
Complaint it to unrealistic
Solution add more LI make them gay bi and straight
Problem see first argument
WARNING PARDOX DETECTED !

This scenario is fixed by the writers deciding who gets to romance who. Not the player.

Nobody here has said that the writers cannot make that decision. Bioware has already stated that there will be s/s LIs in ME3 and have hinted that it may include a few of the previous LIs. Players may want to have a romance with Garrus or Tali but it was the writers who made it possible. The same will be true for any ME3 LIs. YOU are the one stating demands for the writers to meet YOUR definitions of reality and credibility.

[slimgrin]

Chun Hei wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Argument: It’s unfair that my shep can’t have a s/s romance with *insert charters name here*
Solution makes all LI bi also saves money
Complaint it to unrealistic
Solution add more LI make them gay bi and straight
Problem see first argument
WARNING PARDOX DETECTED !

This scenario is fixed by the writers deciding who gets to romance who. Not the player.

Nobody here has said that the writers cannot make that decision. Bioware has already stated that there will be s/s LIs in ME3 and have hinted that it may include a few of the previous LIs. Players may want to have a romance with Garrus or Tali but it was the writers who made it possible. The same will be true for any ME3 LIs. YOU are the one stating demands for the writers to meet YOUR definitions of reality and credibility.

That is precisely what makes this game the sims in space.

But by god..we all get our beloved options.

[wolf99000]

slimgrin wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Argument: It’s unfair that my shep can’t have a s/s romance with *insert charters name here*
Solution makes all LI bi also saves money
Complaint it to unrealistic
Solution add more LI make them gay bi and straight
Problem see first argument
WARNING PARDOX DETECTED !

This scenario is fixed by the writers deciding who gets to romance who. Not the player.

yea because in a game all about choice limiting choice is always a good idea all we are asking is that we have the same choice as every other romance unless you would be happy with 1 romance for each femshep and male shep

[jlb524]

slimgrin wrote...

That is precisely what makes this game the sims in space.

But by god..we all get our beloved options.

Considering heterosexual PCs get all their 'beloved options' by default...why not?

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

So must the number of hetero LIs = ****** LIs? Or would you be content as long as there are a good number?

Modifié par fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb, 21 novembre 2011 - 12:15 .

[Chun Hei]

slimgrin wrote...

That is precisely what makes this game the sims in space.

But by god..we all get our beloved options.

You said you want the writers to make the choices. I point out that the writers ARE the ones making the choices and SOME of them are are the ones we want. You are still complaining.

And you apparently understand THE SIMS about as well as you understand Shaft.

[jlb524]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

So must the number of hetero LIs = ****** LIs? Or would you be content as long as there are a good number?

If they go for strict realism, the number of hetero LIs wouldn't equal the number of homosexual ones (or bisexual).  There'd typically be more.

Similarly, the number of LIs willing to romance a douche bag wouldn't equal the number willing to romance someone who's pleasant to be around.

As long as restrictions are fairly implemented, the numbers don't have to equal.    In my opinion, of course.

When realism is tossed out the window, I think it's best to have all available LIs available to all PCs regardless of gender, class, morality, etc.  I simply don't think it's fair to waive the 'realism' requirement for everything minus gender.

[Abispa]

jlb524 wrote...

When realism is tossed out the window, I think it's best to have all available LIs available to all PCs regardless of gender, class, morality, etc.  I simply don't think it's fair to waive the 'realism' requirement for everything minus gender.

And then there is the fact that ME is about killing godlike sentient spaceships with machine guns and rocket launchers. If the game-makers fail to deliver on that, this game will be a failure. So long as the game is primarily a space shooter, the LIs shouldn't be allowed to consume huge amounts of game-time and resources. The LIs are merely ways for players to accessorize Shepard. Even if there were TONS and TONS of money to spend, I'd prefer it would be spent on the action.

I believe that DA2 has proven that, while not perfect, the "bi" or "hero-sexual" LIs give the most bang for the buck, especially when compared to the ME2 romances. The ME3 team has already said they are doing it differently. Maybe it will be better, but I will hold final judgment till I see the game.

[jlb524]

Well, yeah...most of the game is the action. I honestly replay the game to try out different classes or builds and not to try different romances (I had no romance in ME2 even).

I agree that romances are really another way to accessorize Shepard, or define them and personalize them. Another example, the fish Shepard buys for her/his fishtank. The outfit you place on Shepard, etc.

Not giving homosexual PCs the same freedom to do this with romance as the heterosexuals enjoy just doesn't sit right with me.

[FoxHound109]

Seriously guys, this has gone on for about 10 pages...