25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Chun Hei]

slimgrin wrote...

Chun Hei wrote...

Oh poor poor slimgrin. So hurt that he cannot convince others to agree with him. Blame your own poor arguments and blatant hypocrisy regarding realism for no one agreeing with you.

Realism? Don't bring that up. That's the whole issue most in this thread have disregarded for the sake of choice.

Poor poor slimgrin.

ElitePinecone wrote...

I find the hypocrisy of some arguments a bit hard to stomach, really.

I
mean, either you accept unrealistic romances, because Mass Effect isn't
a dating sim, romance isn't a large part of the game, and it'd be
frankly stupid to design an attractiveness system that cuts off romances
for Shepard based on arbitrary sliders...

.... or you don't
accept it, and clamour for realism in all aspects of the character
interactions. Fine, do that, but at least be consistent.

Realism
means no magical Mordin sex gel, no relationships with turians or
quarians, squadmates rejecting Shepard on the basis of morality,
appearance, orientation, whatever, meaning all that extra work for the
developers to satisfy... what? The wounded artistic sense of some people
on an internet forum?

I'm apathetic about making every romance
option available for every Shepard. I don't particularly care either way
- Bioware don't have an obligation to do anything, but I'd always err
on the side of giving people more choices.

But running around
screaming about how bisexual characters lack 'integrity', or are
unrealistic, is disingenuous at best. You can't fault people for
questioning your motives when unrealistic romances have been in every
single Bioware game to date, and it's only now that some ME/ME2
characters may be available for s/s romances that people are trumpeting
realism as something to defend.

If some former characters are
revealed as bisexual - not changed to bisexual - in ME3, it's because
the writers thought it was a good thing to do. Because it made sense,
story-wise, and because they have limited resources and can't go around
making four exclusively gay and lesbian options.

And if you
really, truly, deep down inside, have a problem with that? Take it up
with the developers, but don't preface your arguments with realism when
realism isn't the aim.

Bioware want to satisfy people, minimise
their costs and maximise their impacts. Inevitably, this has to be done,
at least partly, with bisexual characters.

I've read the leaked
story information, and as best I can tell there are exclusively gay and
lesbian characters. That's a good thing.

There are also, quite
possibly, some bisexual characters who are choosing to reveal their
feelings for Shepard now. Perfectly defensible from a writing
standpoint, and if you don't want to use that content, don't use it.

[slimgrin]

IsaacShep wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Ok. Then this thread is one gigantic group reach-around that refuses to accept any criticism whatsoever.

And you refuse to admit the fact there's no realism when it comes availability of LIs in ME franchise thus there's no reason why sexual orientation should be treated differently from other realistic availability critera.

Want realism? Choose between Ashley or Kaiden in ME1. Decide the Rachni's fate. And who leads the council? 

Different story now with romance, isn't it? Choose either way and win. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 24 novembre 2011 - 11:14 .

[Chun Hei]

slimgrin wrote...

Different story now with romance, isn't it? Choose either way and win. 

The council makes the same decisions no matter who leads. New reports in ME2 indicate that the Rachni are still alive whether or not you killed the queen. Yet you whine for pages and pages and pages about "bi" LIs.

Poor poor slimgrin.

[slimgrin]

Chun Hei wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Different story now with romance, isn't it? Choose either way and win. 

The council makes the same decisions no matter who leads. New reports in ME2 indicate that the Rachni are still alive whether or not you killed the queen. Yet you whine for pages and pages and pages about "bi" LIs.

Poor poor slimgrin.

I challenge Bioware to make a character who is consistently gay regardless of player decision. They won't do it...cause they're yellow.

Modifié par slimgrin, 24 novembre 2011 - 11:32 .

[Sealy]

I am excited for the s/s romances in ME3, I don't think it's pandering to the fanbase to make sure a game doesn't hold priority to any specific group. Yay for more control in ME3, I don't like making my gay sheps use Tali as a beard.

[slimgrin]

Fleshdress wrote...

I am excited for the s/s romances in ME3, I don't think it's pandering to the fanbase to make sure a game doesn't hold priority to any specific group.

That is the very definition of pandering.

[shepskisaac]

slimgrin wrote...

Want realism? Choose between Ashley or Kaiden in ME1. Decide the Rachni's fate. And who leads the council? 

Different story now with romance, isn't it? Choose either way and win. 

Exactly, just as chose either hadsome Shepard or butt-ugly Shepard and get all them chicks and chose either angel Shepard or mass-murderer woman-beater Shepard and still get ALL dem chicks. Like I said many times, when the characters start caring about such criterias as looks & morals, you can demand they should care about the gender of their partners too. But until they keep not giving a single f*ck about anything but a few compliments, don't even bother complaining gender should be an obstacle in getting all dem chicks & hunks.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 25 novembre 2011 - 12:12 .

[slimgrin]

IsaacShep wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Want realism? Choose between Ashley or Kaiden in ME1. Decide the Rachni's fate. And who leads the council? 

Different story now with romance, isn't it? Choose either way and win. 

Exactly, just as chose either hadsome Shepard or butt-ugly Shepard and get all them chicks and chose either angel Shepard or mass-murderer woman-beater Shepard and still get ALL dem chicks. Like I said many times, when the characters start caring about such criterias as looks & morals, you can demand they should care about the gender of their partners too. 

But they should do this, should they not? wouldn't it make the game more realistic? 

Modifié par slimgrin, 25 novembre 2011 - 12:22 .

[shepskisaac]

slimgrin wrote...

But they should do this, should they not? wouldn't make the game more realistic?

Yes, they should. But they DON'T. And they won't start caring about that in ME3 either. So if you wanna complain about realism, leave it for the next BioWare franchise/trilogy/whatever.

[ElitePinecone]

There is an entirely gay character in ME3, slimgrin. And a lesbian LI.

But if they want to give a range of options, Bioware can't afford to make many exclusively gay and lesbian and straight and bisexual fixed LIs. It just doesn't make sense with the numbers involved.

So there'll likely be some bisexual s/s LIs as well. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Bioware'. This isn't the thread to do it in.

[slimgrin]

ElitePinecone wrote...

There is an entirely gay character in ME3, slimgrin. And a lesbian LI.

Who?

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

slimgrin wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

There is an entirely gay character in ME3, slimgrin. And a lesbian LI.

Who?

Some characters that haven't been announced yet.

[jlb524]

slimgrin wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

I am excited for the s/s romances in ME3, I don't think it's pandering to the fanbase to make sure a game doesn't hold priority to any specific group.

That is the very definition of pandering.

It's more like, balancing out the pandering that's already there in spades.

slimgrin wrote...

But they should do this, should they not? wouldn't it make the game more realistic? 

You must have the poorest memory ever.

Modifié par jlb524, 25 novembre 2011 - 02:08 .

[Abispa]

It appears that some crewmen will be major characters, but not squadmates, and will be s/s exclusive.

[slimgrin]

Abispa wrote...

It appears that some crewmen will be major characters, but not squadmates, and will be s/s exclusive.

Speculation then..or my memory is the poorest ever.

[Abispa]

Their romantic dialog is not gender neutral and appears in the scripts assigned to the Shepard of the same gender.

[slimgrin]

Abispa wrote...

Their romantic dialog is not gender neutral and appears in the scripts assigned to the Shepard of the same gender.

Yeah ok, I'll shut up when they actually do it.

[Estelindis]

IsaacShep wrote...

Exactly, just as chose either hadsome Shepard or butt-ugly Shepard and get all them chicks and chose either angel Shepard or mass-murderer woman-beater Shepard and still get ALL dem chicks. Like I said many times, when the characters start caring about such criterias as looks & morals, you can demand they should care about the gender of their partners too.

I tend to agree with you on this point.  Some courses of action on the part of the player-character (beyond simply turning down the other character's overtures) should make it impossible for a romance to advance.  Then again, I say this fresh from my replay of Baldur's Gate with many fan romances installed that had crazy amounts of restrictions and, in my opinion, still worked.  I believe that, in the era of modern gaming, where so much time is invested in voice acting and cutting-edge graphics, Bioware feels that it simply doesn't have the resources to write a romance that many people will never be able to access, even though such a romance is more realistic from a writing point of view.

[Abispa]

@ Estelindis -- It also matters how you allocate resources on romances in a game that is primarily about blowing up evil spaceships and mutants. Romances in ME are just an accessory, as are the LIs, that allow us to personalize our Shepards. As much as I enjoy them, I would be ticked if I picked up ME3 and found that Bioware had short shifted the action and political drama with a highly realistic and detailed interactive romance, no matter how well written it is.

[ElitePinecone]

slimgrin wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Their romantic dialog is not gender neutral and appears in the scripts assigned to the Shepard of the same gender.

Yeah ok, I'll shut up when they actually do it.

The 'gay' crewmember in question appears briefly in the leaked beta. He was married but his husband died in a Collector or Reaper attack (there are two versions in the script). His scenes have very unambiguous dialogue with maleShepard. 

The lesbian crewmember's status in the game was confirmed by her voice actor's website. She also has very clear dialogue in the leaked information. 

They'll both be in the game. Whether they remain fully gay/lesbian, we won't know - but I think they will. Too many other characters' dialogue references their exclusive attraction to men/women, and it sounds as though they were designed like that from the start. 

[ODST 3]

I'm not gay but I see no reason Bioware shouldn't include the option for all those same sexers out there. It's not like romance dialogue takes up a huge part of the script.

[Chun Hei]

ODST 3 wrote...

I'm not gay but I see no reason Bioware shouldn't include the option for all those same sexers out there. It's not like romance dialogue takes up a huge part of the script.

Thank you. Not every s/s fan is gay though. A lot of guys like to play lesbians which is fine as long as they are not hypocritical about it and complain about the males being availabe for gay Shepard. And we have had some straight women like me who like to play gay Hawkes and cannot wait to see Shepard get some snuggle-bunnies with Kaidan, Vega and whoever else is available. I will probably get around to saving the galaxy eventually.

[slimgrin]

ElitePinecone wrote...

The 'gay' crewmember in question appears briefly in the leaked beta. He was married but his husband died in a Collector or Reaper attack (there are two versions in the script). His scenes have very unambiguous dialogue with maleShepard. 

The lesbian crewmember's status in the game was confirmed by her voice actor's website. She also has very clear dialogue in the leaked information. 

They'll both be in the game. Whether they remain fully gay/lesbian, we won't know - but I think they will. Too many other characters' dialogue references their exclusive attraction to men/women, and it sounds as though they were designed like that from the start. 

I'll believe it when I see it. 

[bleetman]

Ah yes, "realism". That thing that's invoked in just about every debate thread on any topic imaginable whenever those involved are grasping at their final couple of straws. It's their fall back position, their last stand. Their narrow pass which they call the Hot Gates, where your numbers will count for nothing.

Don't like something? Claim it's 'unrealistic'. Thermal clips? Realism. Ashley's armour? Realism. Multiplayer perhaps? Sure, why not. Realism!

Modifié par bleetman, 25 novembre 2011 - 01:28 .