25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Abispa]

Ravensword wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I don't know why they didn't go the route of making every LI available to all genders.

its a shame they cannot have something like the comic that lets you pick decsions at the start so you can pick who is bi and gay and not in each game you play I know it would cost bioware more recording the lines for every one all 3 ways but would make it easy and it would stop the moaning of no s/s mob

I like that idea, but I think that might cause widespread controversy and is almost similar to the dreaded gay toggle. You almost get the feeling that Faux News would run a fluff piece about how in ME3 you can choose the sexual orientation of an LI and they would be like, "Oh noes they can pick teh gehys! Git yer gunz cuz Amercan civilization is goin' downs da tubez! HAXOR!!"

Not a big fan of this since you should be able to see, hear and experience the game in action and THEN decide if a LI is for you. If you don't want him/her, don't romance him/her or shoot him/her down if s/he keeps hitting on you. Simple.

A good example of this for me would be Miranda and Tali. Again, I am NOT trying to start a fight with their fans, but I went into a game expecting to romance Miranda and soon after dealing with her sudden transformation from renegade to Shepard groupie on the Normandy I wished I had an option to shove her out an airlock. I was intrigued with Tali, but found her "13-year-old with a crush" dialog creepy and nearly face-palmed myself to death when I found out about the magic Mordin Sex Gel.

Modifié par Abispa, 26 novembre 2011 - 05:53 .

[Abispa]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Personally, I feel that the direction ME3 is taking here (including straight, bi, and gay/lesbian options) is a good move, and will keep the most people happy while still remaining realistic.

Ah, realism, we have dismissed that claim. Easily.

I don't mind if you don't like the "all bi" LI method, but PLEASE don't claim that LIs are more "realistic" if gender is the ONLY thing limiting player access. Baldur's Gate II definitely was more "realistic" since the LIs would not romance someone who was the wrong morality, gender, or species.

Saying that ME is "realistic" because the gender is the ONLY thing that can keep a LI from assuiming the position for a Shepard who commands it is disingenuous at best.

Modifié par Abispa, 26 novembre 2011 - 06:08 .

[wolf99000]

Abispa wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I don't know why they didn't go the route of making every LI available to all genders.

its a shame they cannot have something like the comic that lets you pick decsions at the start so you can pick who is bi and gay and not in each game you play I know it would cost bioware more recording the lines for every one all 3 ways but would make it easy and it would stop the moaning of no s/s mob

I like that idea, but I think that might cause widespread controversy and is almost similar to the dreaded gay toggle. You almost get the feeling that Faux News would run a fluff piece about how in ME3 you can choose the sexual orientation of an LI and they would be like, "Oh noes they can pick teh gehys! Git yer gunz cuz Amercan civilization is goin' downs da tubez! HAXOR!!"

Not a big fan of this since you should be able to see, hear and experience the game in action and THEN decide if a LI is for you. If you don't want him/her, don't romance him/her or shoot him/her down if s/he keeps hitting on you. Simple.

A good example of this for me would be Miranda and Tali. Again, I am NOT trying to start a fight with their fans, but I went into a game expecting to romance Miranda and soon after dealing with her sudden transformation from renegade to Shepard groupie on the Normandy I wished I had an option to shove her out an airlock. I was intrigued with Tali, but found her "13-year-old with a crush" dialog creepy and nearly face-palmed myself to death when I found out about the magic Mordin Sex Gel.

while I admit its not my most logical idea but it is an idea that solves all the problems people are moaning about when it comes to every li being bi if you could set it before the game starts I mean we can set just about everything else before we even play the game the interactive comics gibbed and modio go even more in depth

[Abispa]

wolf99000 wrote...

while I admit its not my most logical idea but it is an idea that solves all the problems people are moaning about when it comes to every li being bi if you could set it before the game starts I mean we can set just about everything else before we even play the game the interactive comics gibbed and modio go even more in depth

Having a comic that establishes the choices that were made in a previous game you are not playing makes sense, but having that comic make choices BEFORE they have even been presented in the game you ARE playing isn't role-playing.

[Athayniel]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Maybe I should clarify here. I'm not saying that characters couldn't be tweaked to make them available to both genders; I'm just saying that restricting them to just one (this applies to s/s-only characters too, keep in mind) has the potential to add something that may otherwise not be there if they were open to both. Whether or not you feel this has previously been accomplished is beside the point.

Personally, I feel that the direction ME3 is taking here (including straight, bi, and gay/lesbian options) is a good move, and will keep the most people happy while still remaining realistic.

The same could be said of story possibilities for s/s or bi romances. It's not an argument for or against making the romance exclusive to a particular sexuality. It's even possible to make the romances with the same NPC significantly different depending on the gender of the PC if resources were not a matter of concern. The universe a maleShep lives in is obviously not the same as the universe wherein a femShep resides.

Ideally 'realism' is a fine thing to want to bring to a game's romances. But given that it has *never* been a priority in Bioware's games and certainly haven't been in Mass Effect as a series, bringing up 'realism' now as an argument against making more relationships open to both genders of PC strikes me as disingenuous.

[bleetman]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Personally, I feel that the direction ME3 is taking here (including straight, bi, and gay/lesbian options) is a good move, and will keep the most people happy while still remaining realistic.

Spartans! What is your profession?!

*Bangs shield*

[Athayniel]

Abispa wrote...

Saying that ME is "realistic" because the gender is the ONLY thing that can keep a LI from assuiming the position for a Shepard who commands it is disingenuous at best.

Hey... quit peeking into my brain while I'm composing replies. And the gall you have to actually post your reply before me! I am shocked! Shocked, I say!

[Abispa]

Athayniel wrote...

I am shocked! Shocked, I say!

You sexed Anders up at the Pearl?

[jlb524]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Maybe I should clarify here. I'm not saying that characters couldn't be tweaked to make them available to both genders; I'm just saying that restricting them to just one (this applies to s/s-only characters too, keep in mind) has the potential to add something that may otherwise not be there if they were open to both. Whether or not you feel this has previously been accomplished is beside the point.

Why?  BW has a history of not overly gendering any romances.  I doubt they will start anytime soon, as their romances tend to focus on other character attributes besides gender (or even morality). 

If they ever do want to write a romance where gender and sexuality does matter, then it's fine to restrict it to one gender.  For example, if they wanted to explore themes of homosexuality in the ME universe through a romanceable character then that character should be limited to the same gender.  Similarly, if morality was important in the romance for some reason, they should limit it to a PC with the morality that makes sense.

My philosophy is that romances should be available to as many PCs as possible unless there is something incorporated within the writing that necessitates some restrictions.  I can't think of a BW romance that needed a gender restriction.  I'm including the only BW 'gay only' romance to date (Juhani from KotOR).  There's no reason she had to be limited to just female PCs and should have been open to both genders, IMO.  They definitely didn't explore lesbianism in the Star Wars universe with her character or anything that necessitated the restriction.

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Personally, I feel that the direction ME3 is taking here (including straight, bi, and gay/lesbian options) is a good move, and will keep the most people happy while still remaining realistic.

It's not possible to remain 'realistic' when you aren't realistic to start with.  

If you want to make the most people happy and remain just as unrealistic as ever, give full options (all bisexual).

[Chun Hei]

Bioware says ME3 will be the best game in the series and I know why! Finally my male Shepards can start sexing up other hot guys in the game! Woooooooooooo!

[Ravensword]

Chun Hei wrote...

Bioware says ME3 will be the best game in the series and I know why! Finally my male Shepards can start sexing up other hot guys in the game! Woooooooooooo!

That is fascinating, Chun Hei. And now I must envy you.

[Sealy]

There is no good reason not to make them all open to both genders. *shrug* There are good reasons not to make the gender restrictions, in one scenario you are restricting player control and for some reason pushing home the real life issue of... if you're not a member of the majority prepare to have your LI, the person you admire the most not like to back because of the plumbing. which will be true for both sides. What if my Fem Shep is in love with the apparent s/s only male?

*sigh* If I see that whine of realism come up in discussion about a game where interspecies romances are available I am going to *facepalm*. Homophobia and labels are already being torn down today. To be "realistic" is to make everyone bi, but this once again loops around to my "the only reason bi isn't the majority today is bacause of the social stigma it gets". The god concept seems to be gone in ME, no reason the being gay is wrong shouldn't be too. I am pro DA2 romancing the place up. Make them all bi bioware, do what you do best and make homophobes squirm. ( You actually do characters best imo, but I also enjoy the way you knock down todays "issues" and giggle while the news and parent groups freak out and play ban the bioware game cause it's going to make your child gay!)

[Athayniel]

Abispa wrote...

Athayniel wrote...

I am shocked! Shocked, I say!

You sexed Anders up at the Pearl?

To be honest I haven't played Awakenings or DA2 so I can't honestly say what I'd do to Anders at the Pearl.

[bas_kon]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Personally, I feel that the direction ME3 is taking here (including straight, bi, and gay/lesbian options) is a good move, and will keep the most people happy while still remaining realistic.

First it was retcons and it grew old, now it's realism, I wonder what are they gonna make up next...
If I wanted a romance to feel real, I woudn't play a game. I'd just take my wife on a trip or something and live reality. When I play a game I just want to have FUN and choices are fun!! Choices for everyone!!
I don't understand why people want to limit other people's experience...

PS: I don't really care about characters being exclusively gay either, I rather them all to be bi. Maybe some, with a strong preference for 1 sex (not always o/s, for the sake of change) and/or morality, to make them different or whatever.

I won't be hypocritical, restrictions are a bad thing, no matter for whom and the less the better.
And games are not made to represent real people, but to be enjoyed by everyone regardless of gender and/or sexuality.

[slimgrin]

bas_kon wrote...


Personally, I feel that the direction ME3 is taking here (including straight, bi, and gay/lesbian options) is a good move, and will keep the most people happy while still remaining realistic.


First it was retcons and it grew old, now it's realism, I wonder what are they gonna make up next...
If I wanted a romance to feel real, I woudn't play a game

Some serious mental gymnastics going on here.

Modifié par slimgrin, 26 novembre 2011 - 07:33 .

[bas_kon]

slimgrin wrote...

bas_kon wrote...


Personally, I feel that the direction ME3 is taking here (including straight, bi, and gay/lesbian options) is a good move, and will keep the most people happy while still remaining realistic.


First it was retcons and it grew old, now it's realism, I wonder what are they gonna make up next...
If I wanted a romance to feel real, I woudn't play a game

Some serious mental gymnastics going on here.

And for those who don't have English as their mattern language, that means...

[Athayniel]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Wow, who knew that just by the use of one particular word, I could generate an entire page of responses. And I didn't even do it on purpose.

If you'd read the 10 pages before these you'd know why 'realism' sets off alarm bells around here just the same as 'retcon' and 'character integrity/consistency'. They're arguments that have been used with little logical basis behind them in the context of Mass Effect's story.

[Vapaa]

jlb524 wrote...

If they ever do want to write a romance where gender and sexuality does matter, then it's fine to restrict it to one gender.  For example, if they wanted to explore themes of homosexuality in the ME universe through a romanceable character then that character should be limited to the same gender.  Similarly, if morality was important in the romance for some reason, they should limit it to a PC with the morality that makes sense.

I second that, and that's why I don't see what the big deal to not make previous LI avalible to both genders, since the sexuality isn't important (in the range of the actual LI), in fact Ashley and Kaidan were at first written to be bi (it was cut from ME1), Tali actually flirts with Femshep, so there is no reason, not even to preserve the so-called realism, not to make them avalible for S/S romance.

[slimgrin]

Rather than the BI option I'd rather see my Femshep turned down by other characters who are exclusively gay. The resulting action could then open up dialog options about why that character chose his/her path and the impact it's had on their life. This way Bioware would be commenting on a topic largely avoided in the industry, tackling the issue head on, which is more important than granting everyone 'options'.

[Abispa]

slimgrin wrote...

Rather than the BI option I'd rather see my Femshep turned down by other characters who are exclusively gay. The resulting action could then open up dialog options about why that character chose his/her path and the impact it's had on their life. This way Bioware would be commenting on a topic largely avoided in the industry, tackling the issue head on, which is more important than granting everyone 'options'.

So you want Bioware to spend extra time and resources to increase the complexity and realism of what is essentially a minor part of the game? How is that NOT making Mass Effect a "dating sim" instead of a first person shooter action RPG?

[slimgrin]

Abispa wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Rather than the BI option I'd rather see my Femshep turned down by other characters who are exclusively gay. The resulting action could then open up dialog options about why that character chose his/her path and the impact it's had on their life. This way Bioware would be commenting on a topic largely avoided in the industry, tackling the issue head on, which is more important than granting everyone 'options'.

So you want Bioware to spend extra time and resources to increase the complexity and realism of what is essentially a minor part of the game? How is that NOT making Mass Effect a "dating sim" instead of a first person shooter action RPG?

I would argue this isn't a minor part of the game to most in this thread. And yes, if bolstering characterization and deepening the content isn't worth extra resources, I don't know what is.

Modifié par slimgrin, 26 novembre 2011 - 08:41 .

[Chun Hei]

That is what the s/s critics have always wanted. A deep meaningful and complex dating sim. LIs are not just ways to personalize our Shepards but are ways to touch our deepest desires for meaningful romance and exhilarating sexual encounters.

[slimgrin]

Pennyball wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Rather than the BI option I'd rather see my Femshep turned down by other characters who are exclusively gay. The resulting action could then open up dialog options about why that character chose his/her path and the impact it's had on their life. This way Bioware would be commenting on a topic largely avoided in the industry, tackling the issue head on, which is more important than granting everyone 'options'.

'"'Choose' her/his path?"
So you can choose, to be gay now 

That wasn't the implication. Rather, how have they dealt with being gay?