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[jeweledleah]

Finis Valorum wrote...

Abispa wrote...

WREX!!!!!!!!!!!

Wrex would actually be my first choice too. To bad a Kromance was the first thing they ruled out.

[ElitePinecone]

Finis Valorum wrote...

Great, so now we're only getting the one non squadmate m/m option (we will likely have to share with femshep players as well while the reverse isn't true for the f/f option), not exactly spoiled for choice are we? No squadmates, no aliens, but most importantly and heart wrenching and soul crushing for me no Kaidan ....again, that'll teach me to dare get my hopes up.

Nope, the one obvious m/m option is exclusively m/m. At least for the moment.

And it looks highly likely that there's another m/m character. 

Being realistic is all well and good, but pessimism without any evdence doesn't help anybody. 

[bas_kon]

I don't get why they don't say a thing about who is s/s even after the leak...I just don't.
I mean, they are always telling us it's not a mayor feature and that we aren't a priority sector, but for good (DA2) or ill (ME2) they always keep it in secret, unlike the o/s ones as if it were a mayor spoiler.

There's a lot of support for s/s romances from what I read in reviews so far, even some are like "T'was about time gay Shep got LI's!".
And the straight teens are whining already, and are gonna whine later on anyways so, why make us wait? It makes no sense.

And because of that, I won't be able to get the collector edition since by the time I know if I can s/s romance Kaidan (the option my main shep's being waiting for since ME) it'll be too late to preorder it.

And now some people say there's only one non-squadmate for m/m?? after 2 games lacking it whatsoever.
He's exclusive for now, and intriguing from what others say (I won't read the dialogs), but I rather variety over exclusivity. Maybe my gay shep will romance him, I just don't see my main shep dumping Miranda for him. Kaidan, though, is a whole different story, since they are already friends.

[Laser Beam]

Finis Valorum wrote...

Abispa wrote...

WREX!!!!!!!!!!!

Wrex would actually be my first choice too. To bad a Kromance was the first thing they ruled out.

A little off-topic but I can't help but wonder if there was ever a time they had laws against interspecies relationships save for the Asari. Does anyone know if they say anything about this in the books or such?

Modifié par Laser Beam, 15 décembre 2011 - 09:12 .

[Abispa]

Laser Beam wrote...

A little off-topic but I can't help but wonder if there was ever a time they had laws against interspecies relationships save for the Asari. Does anyone know if they say anything about this in the books or such?

I know that the ME games have featured scenes with Turians (not Garrus) and Batarians expressing approval for human females they find attractive (yeah, I bet the players of female Shepard are thrilled). Tali made no indication that her pursuit of male Shepard violated any laws. Kelly and female Shepard can talk casually about finding Thane attractive, and Thane, like Tali, makes no indication that his pursuit of female Shepard is against any laws. The Turian and the Quarian at the bar on Illium mention an art film depicting Turian/Quarian sexuality. Both Shepards receive mating requests on Tchuncka. And finally, Dr. Mordin seems to stock/create special sex gels for interspecies romances in a matter of fact manner. No indication that it is illegal or even immoral.

[ElitePinecone]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

Laser Beam wrote...


A little off-topic but I can't help but wonder if there was ever a time they had laws against interspecies relationships save for the Asari. Does anyone know if they say anything about this in the books or such?

Well, there was aт item in a manual for new Cerberus personnel...

I don't remember this... where was it? 

We haven't heard anything about Systems Alliance regulations, although given the wide freedoms in other areas (Shepard quotes the article about religious freedom, and we've seen a gay married soldier) I'd suspect there'd be no restrictions on it. Whatever the individual human nations' customs, their galactic representatives seem to be a pretty idealistic and liberal bunch. 

Other species might differ, though I doubt it. If anything any condemnation would be social (for example, a viable krogan female is a valuable strategic asset and there'd be cultural pressures to continue a family line for male krogan). 

[FoxHound109]

bas_kon wrote...

I don't get why they don't say a thing about who is s/s even after the leak...I just don't. 

Because they're probably scared it's gonna' cause a wave of "OMG MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IS T3H GAY NOW?!?! I WON'T BE BUYING  THIS GAM3!!!111!!1!oneleven!!1"

[Cuddlezarro]

FoxHound109 wrote...

bas_kon wrote...

I don't get why they don't say a thing about who is s/s even after the leak...I just don't. 

Because they're probably scared it's gonna' cause a wave of "OMG MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IS T3H GAY NOW?!?! I WON'T BE BUYING  THIS GAM3!!!111!!1!oneleven!!1"

those morons will do that any ways though just at the thought of even a new character trying to give their manly straight male shepards a case of teh gay

[Wittand25]

FoxHound109 wrote...

bas_kon wrote...

I don't get why they don't say a thing about who is s/s even after the leak...I just don't. 

Because they're probably scared it's gonna' cause a wave of "OMG MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IS T3H GAY NOW?!?! I WON'T BE BUYING  THIS GAM3!!!111!!1!oneleven!!1"

More likely they do not want to make promises early. Think about what an uproar an announced MShep/Kaidan romance would cause if the romance got cut during the crunch period for one reason or another.

So they are playing their cards safe and wait with the announcements as long as possible.

[ElitePinecone]

FoxHound109 wrote...

bas_kon wrote...

I don't get why they don't say a thing about who is s/s even after the leak...I just don't. 

Because they're probably scared it's gonna' cause a wave of "OMG MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IS T3H GAY NOW?!?! I WON'T BE BUYING  THIS GAM3!!!111!!1!oneleven!!1"

Yep. And because revealing some of the s/s options would mean revealing some of the characters for the first time; and while they don't have as much content as many of the squadmates they do play significant roles in the game and some quests. 

But I think your reason is the main one. The strong likelihood that there'll be more than one (new) s/s option in ME3 means some fans of already-revealed or encountered characters might be disappointed. 

Plus, the forums have been calm for a while. There hasn't been a rage-thread about s/s for months. 

[Stardusk78]

I've said it before, the S/S dude should be exclusively gay, not bi.

[Ravensword]

Stardusk78 wrote...

I've said it before, the S/S dude should be exclusively gay, not bi.

Why?

[Stardusk78]

Ravensword wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

I've said it before, the S/S dude should be exclusively gay, not bi.

Why?

Lots of reasons, it makes (Vega) or whoever it is, a lot more believable. Sexualtiy is a super important part of people's identities and whether you are straight or gay can define a lot. A purely gay character makes for a more developed, deeper character than someone who just swings both ways on a whim.

[Tric]

Bisexuality is a defined sexuality so I don't really understand what you're trying to imply with that.
Bisexuals are people who are attracted to both genders, that's one of the main defining characteristics for bisexuality, they don't "swing both ways on a whim".

A badly developed character isn't going to be better simply because they're gay or straight, it's things like their personality and history and story that makes them well developed characters. A character being bisexual doesn't make them nor their romance inherently bad or badly developded.

And personaly speaking I prefer romances where gender isn't of great importance in the story, the romance doesn't have to be completly gender neutral but I,at least, prefer when the romance doesn't revolve around that (specially not in a sci-fi world where it's normal to have sex with aliens).

[Finis Valorum]

Wittand25 wrote...


More likely they do not want to make promises early. Think about what an uproar an announced MShep/Kaidan romance would cause if the romance got cut during the crunch period for one reason or another.

You can bet any Kaidan s/s content will be the first in line for the inevitable crunch season cuts again.

[bas_kon]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

I've said it before, the S/S dude should be exclusively gay, not bi.

Why?

Lots of reasons, it makes (Vega) or whoever it is, a lot more believable. Sexualtiy is a super important part of people's identities and whether you are straight or gay can define a lot. A purely gay character makes for a more developed, deeper character than someone who just swings both ways on a whim.

Well, I'm a bi man and I don't see my wife complaining about how unbelievable, bad developed and shallow I am as a person, in fact she's pretty happy with me, and doesn't envy any of her friends who married more developed straight guys.

Your point makes no sense. Deep characters depend on both their background and the roles they are given in the story, the people they've shared their bed with before meeting you is completely irrelevant. You don't even have to know it, because they wouldn't tell you, ala "straight" Anders.

If you were gay, and wanted to relate yourself to that character, that'd be a completely different story. You are not supposed to relate to your LI, though, that's what your PC is for.

[ElitePinecone]

Stardusk78 wrote...

I've said it before, the S/S dude should be exclusively gay, not bi.

But there'll be more than one, almost certainly (at least, by the looks of the story information we have). Making a whole cast of exclusively gay dudes to populate the Normandy just so the player has options is a bit odd, not to mention expensive. Probably too expensive to justify.

I'm going to assume you have the best of intentions, and are just erring on the side of being ignorant, but I have to point out that this is an incredibly superficial argument to make.

Exclusivity in romantic attraction isn't inherently more worthy, more deeper or more pure than finding attraction in both genders, or in any part of the spectrum of consenting human sexuality. 

If a character seems superficial because they're attracted to both genders, it's the fault of weak writing and not any inherent lack of integrity in 'swinging both ways on a whim'. Arguing that being available to both genders of, say, Shepard demeans a character or somehow dilutes their dramatic potential compared to an exclusively gay or lesbian NPC gets the development and writing process fundamentally wrong.

I know people don't like throwing around these terms lightly, but even using phrases like the one ('on a whim') I quoted above seems disturbingly biphobic. Arguing that liking two genders is inferior or less interesting than liking just one, or arguing that being capable of romance with both genders implies that they're somehow dramatically less worthy of development, is ridiculous.

Besides, characters don't even need to acknowledge their bisexuality to be available to both genders of the player protagonist in different universes of the gameworld. From our in-game perspective they might even look gay or lesbian, even if they're (unspokenly) bisexual and would happily romance an opposite-gendered version of our character if they existed. 

(I won't even mention that you don't seem to have a problem with female bisexuals, or is that a problem of your word use?)

It's rather likely that ME3 will feature exclusively gay and lesbian characters, as far as we're aware, and I'm happy that they're in there. It's even a nice change.

But they aren't inherently more worthy, more deep or more pure than bisexual characters. Frankly I'd even prefer the latter, because everyone gets more options, and characters available to both genders are easier to justify because the investment is appreciated by potentially more people. 

[Stardusk78]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

I've said it before, the S/S dude should be exclusively gay, not bi.

But there'll be more than one, almost certainly (at least, by the looks of the story information we have). Making a whole cast of exclusively gay dudes to populate the Normandy just so the player has options is a bit odd, not to mention expensive. Probably too expensive to justify.

I'm going to assume you have the best of intentions, and are just erring on the side of being ignorant, but I have to point out that this is an incredibly superficial argument to make.

Exclusivity in romantic attraction isn't inherently more worthy, more deeper or more pure than finding attraction in both genders, or in any part of the spectrum of consenting human sexuality. 

If a character seems superficial because they're attracted to both genders, it's the fault of weak writing and not any inherent lack of integrity in 'swinging both ways on a whim'. Arguing that being available to both genders of, say, Shepard demeans a character or somehow dilutes their dramatic potential compared to an exclusively gay or lesbian NPC gets the development and writing process fundamentally wrong.

I know people don't like throwing around these terms lightly, but even using phrases like the one ('on a whim') I quoted above seems disturbingly biphobic. Arguing that liking two genders is inferior or less interesting than liking just one, or arguing that being capable of romance with both genders implies that they're somehow dramatically less worthy of development, is ridiculous.

Besides, characters don't even need to acknowledge their bisexuality to be available to both genders of the player protagonist in different universes of the gameworld. From our in-game perspective they might even look gay or lesbian, even if they're (unspokenly) bisexual and would happily romance an opposite-gendered version of our character if they existed. 

(I won't even mention that you don't seem to have a problem with female bisexuals, or is that a problem of your word use?)

It's rather likely that ME3 will feature exclusively gay and lesbian characters, as far as we're aware, and I'm happy that they're in there. It's even a nice change.

But they aren't inherently more worthy, more deep or more pure than bisexual characters. Frankly I'd even prefer the latter, because everyone gets more options, and characters available to both genders are easier to justify because the investment is appreciated by potentially more people. 

I am not phobic of anything. Very, very few people swing equally both ways, most at least gravitate towards one sex or the other but I think exclusively lesbian characters are just as important as exclusively gay ones, hell, I wish I met more lesbians in real life. I didn't say it was anymore WORTHY, just more realistic and defined. I assume you are a gay male and don't find females attractive, well that is something more defining that going both ways, just like I don't find men attractive. I will admit I am a bi sceptic because the few bi people I have met all turned out to be gay later, just my experience.

[Stardusk78]

bas_kon wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

I've said it before, the S/S dude should be exclusively gay, not bi.

Why?

Lots of reasons, it makes (Vega) or whoever it is, a lot more believable. Sexualtiy is a super important part of people's identities and whether you are straight or gay can define a lot. A purely gay character makes for a more developed, deeper character than someone who just swings both ways on a whim.

Well, I'm a bi man and I don't see my wife complaining about how unbelievable, bad developed and shallow I am as a person, in fact she's pretty happy with me, and doesn't envy any of her friends who married more developed straight guys.

Your point makes no sense. Deep characters depend on both their background and the roles they are given in the story, the people they've shared their bed with before meeting you is completely irrelevant. You don't even have to know it, because they wouldn't tell you, ala "straight" Anders.

If you were gay, and wanted to relate yourself to that character, that'd be a completely different story. You are not supposed to relate to your LI, though, that's what your PC is for.

It's not an issue of merely sharing the bed with something, straight or gay, an entire aspect of another spectrum of the population is not of romantic interest to you. That is a pretty defining quality I think.

[ElitePinecone]

Stardusk78 wrote...
don't find females attractive, well that is something more defining that going both ways, just like I don't find men attractive. I will admit I am a bi sceptic because the few bi people I have met all turned out to be gay later, just my experience.

I think this speaks for itself. 

For the record I don't at all think being attracted to one gender is more defining than being attracted to two. 

By definition a definition is a definition. Gay or lesbian people are as much defined by their exclusivity in sexual attraction as bisexual people are defined by their non-exclusivity. 

If your point is that it's easier to write something memorable, dramatic and deep for an exclusively gay or lesbian character than for a bisexual one, then I don't agree again. That's a failure of writing, not potential.

Arguing that bisexual characters are less engaging than gay/lesbian ones is exactly the same tired point that people use when they say being open to both genders 'ruins' characters they assumed were straight.

It's the idea that [character x] is iconic because of their (assumed) sexuality or (assumed) attractiveness to one gender, and that being open to romance with another gender 'weakens', 'corrupts' or 'dilutes' their personality.

Nonsense. 

(I'm not even going to address your evidence of bisexual people not existing that rests on a few people you met once. As empirical evidence goes, it's a little lacking.)

[syllogi]

Stardusk78 wrote...

I am not phobic of anything. Very, very few people swing equally both ways, most at least gravitate towards one sex or the other but I think exclusively lesbian characters are just as important as exclusively gay ones, hell, I wish I met more lesbians in real life. I didn't say it was anymore WORTHY, just more realistic and defined. I assume you are a gay male and don't find females attractive, well that is something more defining that going both ways, just like I don't find men attractive. I will admit I am a bi sceptic because the few bi people I have met all turned out to be gay later, just my experience.

So what criteria did you use to find out that the formerly bisexual people you knew were actually gay/lesbian?  Was it just that they were now dating people of their own gender?  Bisexual people tend to do that.  If they blow your mind and start another heterosexual relationship, are they no longer gay?

[Stardusk78]

syllogi wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

I am not phobic of anything. Very, very few people swing equally both ways, most at least gravitate towards one sex or the other but I think exclusively lesbian characters are just as important as exclusively gay ones, hell, I wish I met more lesbians in real life. I didn't say it was anymore WORTHY, just more realistic and defined. I assume you are a gay male and don't find females attractive, well that is something more defining that going both ways, just like I don't find men attractive. I will admit I am a bi sceptic because the few bi people I have met all turned out to be gay later, just my experience.

So what criteria did you use to find out that the formerly bisexual people you knew were actually gay/lesbian?  Was it just that they were now dating people of their own gender?  Bisexual people tend to do that.  If they blow your mind and start another heterosexual relationship, are they no longer gay?

A couple of examples, all males in this case, started dating women and somewhere down the line realised they were gay but between that time they called themselves bisexual, realising they possessed a much stronger attraction to men. Clearly it is a matter of interpretation, after all no one is wholly one thing or the other but if the 1-10 scale is used, how many people are really a solid 5 right in the middle, finding both women and men equally attactive? Not too many I suspect. So, do I believe that there might be 6.5s out there, sure. In fact one of my gay friends (he calls himself gay) still occasionally wanks to straight porn but admits he prefers gay porn, you can call him bisexual or gay depending on the interpretation I guess.

[Gespenst]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Lots of reasons, it makes (Vega) or whoever it is, a lot more believable. Sexualtiy is a super important part of people's identities and whether you are straight or gay can define a lot. A purely gay character makes for a more developed, deeper character than someone who just swings both ways on a whim.

Wow.

WOW.

Really?

Stardusk78 wrote...

I didn't say it was anymore WORTHY, just more realistic and defined. I assume you are a gay male and don't find females attractive, well that is something more defining that going both ways, just like I don't find men attractive.

Why is it less defined? I suppose you could say it's less "definite" but, well, why would you ever need to say that?

Stardusk78 wrote...

I will admit I am a bi sceptic because the few bi people I have met all turned out to be gay later, just my experience.

...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Clearly it is a matter of interpretation,

Clearly.

Stardusk78 wrote...

after all no one is wholly one thing or the other but if the 1-10 scale is used, how many people are really a solid 5 right in the middle, finding both women and men equally attactive? Not too many I suspect. So, do I believe that there might be 6.5s out there, sure. In fact one of my gay friends (he calls himself gay) still occasionally wanks to straight porn but admits he prefers gay porn, you can call him bisexual or gay depending on the interpretation I guess.

Ah, I think I see what the problem is. I'm only familiar with one sexuality "scale" (the old Kinsey scale) but everything that's not a 0 (heterosexual) or a 6 (homosexual) is bisexual, to whatever degree. (Asexual is off to the side somewhere, I don't think they'd thought of that in the 1950s)

So... I guess I might as well tell you this, the men you mentioned were most likely gay all along (just a guess I've never even met them). Most people don't wake up one morning and know that they're gay. They might think: oh that man is very attractive, do you suppose I might be bisexual? And then later: Oh actually I've no interest in women really. I suppose I might be gay after all.

Or they might be bisexual and prefer men to women so they tell people that they're gay when it comes up rather than trying to convince everyone that bisexuals really do exist all the time. ...That's what I do, depending on who I'm talking to obviously (perhaps it's the wrong way to go about things but it saves hassle and seems like less of a lie than saying that I'm straight... I don't know )