25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

Quething wrote...
snip

Meaningless to us, yes. But not to Bioware. 

Their telemetry covers pretty much any aspect of the game they could want to record. They have recorded statistics from practically every player who has an internet connection (or who ever connected their console/PC to the internet) which are comprehensive and meticulously detailed. 

So no, we don't know what '80% played a male Shepard' means. Yes, it's entirely possible that most of Mass Effect's playerbase played the game once only (50% didn't finish ME2, remember), as a male Shepard, didn't romance anyone and rushed through it never to open it again. This would have all sorts of implications for LIs, and I'm certain Bioware are aware of this. 

But BSN polls are - for all intents and purposes - functionally useless, statistically dubious and prone to all sorts of confirmation and selection biases. They cannot, and should not, be used to argue *anything* except to show what a tiny proportion of motivated and self-selected fans think about a particular issue. 

Based on the best information we have available, mSheps far outnumber femSheps in the wider playerbase. This has all sorts of implications for romances in ME3. 

[Cotilla]

I have three Shepards right now: Alexander Shepard (maleshep without romance, waiting for the s/s LI in ME3), Jenny Shepard (femshep with Kaidan, just started ME2), and Greta Shepard (femshep with Liara, this one is still in ME1); and the very first Shepard I played was Jenny. So, I'm part of the 80% that played maleshep, but I also played femshep: in this case, the % of maleshep players and femshep players together doesn't equal 100%

[Quething]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Meaningless to us, yes. But not to Bioware.

But we're not BioWare.* So for any one of us to try to say anything definitive using that statistic, or draw any conclusions from it at all, is misleading and counterproductive. And repeating that statistic as though it does have any real meaning serves only to spread misinformation.

As for BSN polls, I suspect they're a lot more representative than most people think, but yes, any reasonable professional info jockey could go for twenty pages on how many points of potential failure such a survey holds. The femShep poll does, however, remain an easy and straightforward demonstration of how easily statistics can be cherry-picked to provide misleading information.

Anyway as far as the Kaidan/Ash thing goes, I agree that any potential "not many people will see all this work" detriment to them opening up the VS to s/s is counterbalanced by the "not many people will see this 'retcon' and scream about it" benefit. My hopes are still up, either way 

*And remember: BioWare is not an impartial party here. BioWare has a vested interest in encouraging the fanbase to believe very few people play femShep, and a confirmation bias of their own involved in reading that data (recall that they called that 18% surprisingly high). What data they present to us must be filtered through that awareness as well, both in terms of that particular statistic and any other they give us about any other feature of the game. Never forget that anything they tell the public is PR.

Modifié par Quething, 19 décembre 2011 - 02:22 .

[Abispa]

Do you think that Bioware assumes that most female Shepard players are actually males? I often have that feeling since the male LIs are rarely aggressive and the female LIs are all over you no matter what gender you play. Hell, look how ballistic male players got when Anders hit on them, yet Isabela "surprisingly" didn't get the same level of outrage.

[Ryzaki]

Not to mention the Consort/Samara's loyalty mission.

I highly doubt the ME team would force male Sheps to seduce another male to complete a character's loyalty mission.(I lol'd hard at MOTA though but even that gave you a choice between seduce/trick/just knock him the f*** out).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 décembre 2011 - 11:51 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Short of Vega, I think I would have been honestly impressed if EDI were being put inside a male chasis in ME3.

Make Joker, and maybe some players, question some things then.

[Abispa]

@ Dean_the_Young -- Evil. And brilliant. Thank you.

[ElitePinecone]

Ryzaki wrote...
(I lol'd hard at MOTA though but even that gave you a choice between seduce/trick/just knock him the f*** out)

I loved that, it was really refreshing. Similar to the prison guard at Fort Drakon, I guess? 

(It also subverts the 'sexy woman elf flirts with everyone to get her way')

[Ryzaki]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
(I lol'd hard at MOTA though but even that gave you a choice between seduce/trick/just knock him the f*** out)

I loved that, it was really refreshing. Similar to the prison guard at Fort Drakon, I guess? 

(It also subverts the 'sexy woman elf flirts with everyone to get her way')

Yes. Though I usually own Catherine. No one takes me to jail.

Yes that subversion was also hilarious.

[shepskisaac]

Abispa wrote...

Do you think that Bioware assumes that most female Shepard players are actually males? I often have that feeling since the male LIs are rarely aggressive and the female LIs are all over you no matter what gender you play.

No. I think it's much more simple - they're mostly heterosexual men themselves, so they're doing this unconsciously, or you could even say 'naturally'. One of the subjects discussed at BioWare writers panel at Comic-Con back in June was how hard it is (for male writers) to write the player character without an assumption that he is a guy. I think it's fair to say they definitely succeed at avoiding that mistake. But it doesn't seem like they're even aware that they're making a similar mistake it in other areas of the game.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 21 décembre 2011 - 01:24 .

[Chun Hei]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Hell, look how ballistic male players got when Anders hit on them, yet Isabela "surprisingly" didn't get the same level of outrage.

What are you talking about? Isablea never propositioned me and gave me rivalry points for turning her down. If she had, I would have been annoyed by that too.

Anders only hits on Hawke if s/he is really nice to him even though he 1) led Hake [and maybe the apostate sister] into a Templar ambush where they had to kill Templars IN THE CHANTRY and 2) he revealed himself to be an abomination. It was natural that he would be offended given the circumstances AND his state of mind.

Put yourself in Anders' shoes. "Why is s/he so nice to me even though I am an abomination and I just forced them to kill Templars in the Chantry which is sure to be a capital offense? S/he MUST REALLY LIKE ME!"

And we have had PLENTY of people complain on this thread that Anders may be a sign of what to expect in ME3 if one of the characters "turns bi" and how it will ruin immersion.

Isabela hits on Hawke only if s/he is breathing.

Modifié par Chun Hei, 21 décembre 2011 - 03:41 .

[Chun Hei]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Well, my one real problem with that conversation is that no matter how I try to handle it, I end up with rivalry points. Whether it makes sense from a story perspective or not, from the gameplay perspective of somebody trying to make friends with Anders, it's pretty annoying.

Still, they've promised they're not going to do anything like that again, so it would appear that they've understood their mistake.

That is the danger of trying to find a happy medium between a "realistic" scene with no "good" option and a fan service where a player can always avoid rivarly points in conversations. I am NOT saying DA2 was realistic and did not have some face-palm worthy bad scenes but the Anders' turn down is not one of them.

The writers have already posted that they will try to avoid scenes like this in the future. I think that is a shame but I understand their reasons.

[ElitePinecone]

A reminder not to quote or respond to troll posts. It makes it harder for the mods to remove the content.

[Selene Moonsong]

Ignoer the troll, please.

[jlb524]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Well, my one real problem with that conversation is that no matter how I try to handle it, I end up with rivalry points. Whether it makes sense from a story perspective or not, from the gameplay perspective of somebody trying to make friends with Anders, it's pretty annoying.

I always get rival points there no matter what.

I always max out Anders's friendship (usually by the end of Act 2).

I typically gain a few rival points here and there when I'm on the friend path with someone.

[bas_kon]

jlb524 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Well, my one real problem with that conversation is that no matter how I try to handle it, I end up with rivalry points. Whether it makes sense from a story perspective or not, from the gameplay perspective of somebody trying to make friends with Anders, it's pretty annoying.

I always get rival points there no matter what.

I always max out Anders's friendship (usually by the end of Act 2).

I typically gain a few rival points here and there when I'm on the friend path with someone.

Next thing they are gonna ask for, is an action mode, so there's noway they pick the "wrong" answer. Oh! wait...<_<

[Chun Hei]

I do not mind "action mode" or "multiplayer" so long as they are add-ons and take away nothing.

[Quething]

Actually it would be really nice if there were a way to get Rivalry points off Izzy hitting on you, she could use an easier Rival path.

The thing with Samara's loyalty mission is a bit more layered than just "they tend to forget that femShep exists" though; it grows, after all, out of the whole mongendered bisexual space babe asari thing which is a whole tangled kettle of problematic fish by itself. I mean, they weren't going to have you seduce a psychic space vampire hanar. If only because a hanar squadmate would require too many new animations.

[bas_kon]

Chun Hei wrote...

I do not mind "action mode" or "multiplayer" so long as they are add-ons and take away nothing.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't mind them either, not gonna use them though I respect that people get the choice. I am all for choices, unlike some people on BSN. Although, I can't help but wonder why on earth someone would play an RPG just to shoot, shoot, shoot and get the end.

Thus like you as long as they don't take away anything from the stardard mode I'm ok with that. Although if they asked me action mode or more s/s LI's I would totally choose the second one

[Chun Hei]

Multiplayer will allow me and my friends to chase Kaidan and Vega all over the place. Or at least IT BETTER LET ME...!

[Chun Hei]

@l Quething -- One easy way to help get rivalry points with Izzy would be to allow Hawke to say, "Yes! Dammit! You DO need a bath!"

[bas_kon]

Chun Hei wrote...

Multiplayer will allow me and my friends to chase Kaidan and Vega all over the place. Or at least IT BETTER LET ME...!

Now that would be something I'd pay for . Although, they said multiplayer wouldn't have any of the main characters, Just the "fun" of killing unlimited hordes or enemies accompanied by your friends, if I remember correctly. Quite a shame indeed...your version sounds like it would have been much more fun

[Ravensword]

Chun Hei wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Hell, look how ballistic male players got when Anders hit on them, yet Isabela "surprisingly" didn't get the same level of outrage.

What are you talking about? Isablea never propositioned me and gave me rivalry points for turning her down. If she had, I would have been annoyed by that too.

Anders only hits on Hawke if s/he is really nice to him even though he 1) led Hake [and maybe the apostate sister] into a Templar ambush where they had to kill Templars IN THE CHANTRY and 2) he revealed himself to be an abomination. It was natural that he would be offended given the circumstances AND his state of mind.

Put yourself in Anders' shoes. "Why is s/he so nice to me even though I am an abomination and I just forced them to kill Templars in the Chantry which is sure to be a capital offense? S/he MUST REALLY LIKE ME!"

And we have had PLENTY of people complain on this thread that Anders may be a sign of what to expect in ME3 if one of the characters "turns bi" and how it will ruin immersion.

Isabela hits on Hawke only if s/he is breathing.

The only problem I have w/ Anders is when he becomes a terrorist. I hope they retcon that whole thing.