25715 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

What they should or shouldn't is irrelevant by now anyway. It's done one way or another at this point. The game's going gold in 3 weeks or so and the only thing they're doing right not is fixing bugs. So we're just playing the waiting game to find out how and with whom they implemented s/s romances.

[Unbannable]

IsaacShep wrote...

But these flaws are MUCH more important. We're talking Mass Effect, a game about morals, how people react to Shep's actions etc. Sexual orientation is not the subject of the story.

And like I told Ryzaki, due to sexuality being much more controversial than morality, it will therefore be noticed, and discussed far more than the latter, even though it's a minor aspect of the overall story.

Why do you think J.K Rowling waited until the very end to announce that Dumbledore was gay? 

[shepskisaac]

Unbannable wrote...

Why do you think J.K Rowling waited until the very end to announce that Dumbledore was gay? 

I don't know, I don't sit in her head

[Unbannable]

1136342t54 wrote...

Depends in which country. We Americans for some reason deem showing nudity being much worse than showing someone getting blown to bits and pieces.

There are plenty of other cultures where sexuality is a big issue.....not just America.  In Middle Eastern cultures, sexuality is a very taboo subject.  Same thing in Latin American countries, or any other country with a strong religious foundation.

Few nations in fact have a genuinely liberal outlook on sexuality, and even so, there are limitations as to what is tolerated.

[Ryzaki]

Unbannable wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

But these flaws are MUCH more important. We're talking Mass Effect, a game about morals, how people react to Shep's actions etc. Sexual orientation is not the subject of the story.

And like I told Ryzaki, due to sexuality being much more controversial than morality, it will therefore be noticed, and discussed far more than the latter, even though it's a minor aspect of the overall story.

Why do you think J.K Rowling waited until the very end to announce that Dumbledore was gay? 

So I'm right. You guys don't care about character intergrity. You care about sexuality.

[1136342t54_]

Unbannable wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Depends in which country. We Americans for some reason deem showing nudity being much worse than showing someone getting blown to bits and pieces.

There are plenty of other cultures where sexuality is a big issue.....not just America.  In Middle Eastern cultures, sexuality is a very taboo subject.  Same thing in Latin American countries, or any other country with a strong religious foundation.

Few nations in fact have a genuinely liberal outlook on sexuality, and even so, there are limitations as to what is tolerated.

And? I never said just American you seem to think that. This country is one of the countries that seem to make sexuality such a hot topic for very little reasons. Just because its like that doesn't mean its right in anyway. Like Religion and government. It shouldn't be a hot topic since Religion does not involve in government period case closed.

[Unbannable]

Ryzaki wrote...

Female teachers aren't personally what I'd consider influential. No offense to any teachers. A principal yeah...a normal teacher...no.

Teachers have a tremendous amount of influence, far more so than most people in other professions.  Just think, how many students a career teacher will impact over the course of 30 to 40 years? 

A good teacher can have an enormously positive lasting impression on a student's life....   The same can be said for a bad teacher.

And them being sexually attracted to someone of the same gender means they can't be crazy anymore?

Sexual attraction is sexual attraction.  Remember how this conversation first came about.  I was responding to ridiculous assertions by JLB524 and Bas_kon that women throwing themselves at MaleShep was unrealistic.

Undoubtedly, gay people can display similar tendencies as well, just on a much smaller scale since they are so few in number.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

So I'm right. You guys don't care about character intergrity. You care about sexuality.

Actually Unbannable seems to be telling you how idiotic our culture is. It is too the point that some see sexuality as more important than morality.

Seriously if you can't find the hilarity (and a bit of sadness) in that then you have no sense of humor .

[Ryzaki]

Unbannable wrote...
Teachers have a tremendous amount of influence, far more so than most people in other professions.  Just think, how many students a career teacher will impact over the course of 30 to 40 years? 

A good teacher can have an enormously positive lasting impression on a student's life....   The same can be said for a bad teacher.

Alright but since no one on the ME squad is a teacher let's just keep it to military women and scientists.

ASexual attraction is sexual attraction.  Remember how this conversation first came about.  I was responding to ridiculous assertions by JLB524 and Bas_kon that women throwing themselves at MaleShep was unrealistic.Undoubtedly, gay people can display similar tendencies as well, just on a much smaller scale since they are so few in number.

It's not unrealistic. But it's damned unlikely for 5 young, attractive and successful women (all mysteriously single and able and willing to have a relationship with him damn their physical health or careers) to all throw themselves at the same man. 

Right. And there's nothing unrealistic about someone being a sex magnet with both males or females even those who would say they were straight.

Reality is stranger then fiction after all.

1136342t54 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

So I'm right. You guys don't care about character intergrity. You care about sexuality.

Actually
Unbannable seems to be telling you how idiotic our culture is. It is
too the point that some see sexuality as more important than morality.

Seriously if you can't find the hilarity (and a bit of sadness) in that then you have no sense of humor [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie].

Frankly I'm just finding it sad.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 janvier 2012 - 08:50 .

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...
Frankly I'm just finding it sad.

My Faith in humanity as at an all time low. At this stage its more funny than sad. Don't let it get to you.

Now back on topic I can understand the arguments against making certain characters gay or romanceable at the end of the series but at the same time it doesn't make much sense to not do it.

It won't really ruin the character. Hell I would think if I was gay I'd likely be as much of a doucbe as I am now. Miranda being bi isn't much of a change. It could easily be explainable by saying she actually wanted kids but now due to sterility and a while with coming terms with the fact she won't ever be able to have children it leaves her open to other options.

Ashley and Kaidan may have some reservations when it comes to same sex relationships due to religion or other reasons. Something likely could have changed in a few years.

Honestly I have no problem with it. I always kind of thought Kaidan was bi lol. Ashley not so much but then again it wouldn't bother me.

[shepskisaac]

Hahaha stay pressed Ryzaki. Considering we've talking not one, but TWO characters with gender-neutral dialogues, you've got a big chance looking dumb come March because of one of them turning out to be available, if not both lol. And even if you ban everyone from your group it won't change if you're proven wrong. So go on, proclaim it as fact that Vega & Kaidan are o/s-exclusive. No one's gonna take your word seriously anyway

[Unbannable]

Ryzaki wrote...

It's not unrealistic. But it's damned unlikely for 5 young, attractive and successful women (all mysteriously single and able and willing to have a relationship with him damn their physical health or careers) to all throw themselves at the same man.

Professional people with demanding jobs have a very difficult time finding a mate, so I wouldn't even say it's even unlikely. 

Right. And there's nothing unrealistic about someone being a sex magnet with both males or females even those who would say they were straight.

Actually, that is unrealistic.  You can't just be attracted to someone of the same sex simply because they're hot, unless you yourself already have a bisexual disposition.

A genuinely heterosexual person would be repulsed by the thought of sexual contact with a member of the same sex, regardless of how attractive that person is.  I know it repulses me

Heterosexuals are far more likely to admire (as in want to be them) extremely attractive members of the same sex, than want to jump their bones.

Jealousy would also be a huge factor, due to competition for mates..

Reality is stranger then fiction after all.

Eh?  What reality do you live in?

Modifié par Unbannable, 09 janvier 2012 - 09:55 .

[Unbannable]

1136342t54 wrote...

Actually Unbannable seems to be telling you how idiotic our culture is. It is too the point that some see sexuality as more important than morality.

Seriously if you can't find the hilarity (and a bit of sadness) in that then you have no sense of humor .

Actually, in this context, the all bi option doesn't even concern sexuality, because the characters aren't truly bisexual at all.

As has been mentioned before, the characters have no personal sexuality, since their sexuality is determined by the PC.

[shepskisaac]

Unbannable wrote...

since their sexuality is determined by the PC.

So is their visual taste along with lack of care about the partners' morals and actions. So whatever.

[Poquimo]

Just interrupting the discussion above to say that if Ashley and Tali become same sex romances I will need an extra order of Shepards over here stat. I will romance ALL THE THINGS.

Also, I think it would be cool if like...romance options you don't pursue, pursue other people. Like if you don't romance Tali she is in a relationship with Kal or if..idk you don't romance Liara she is with that Drell or hell MIRANDA etc etc who knows. There was something like that in Dragon Age II where if you aren't romancing two of the love interests then THEY have a little R&R together.

If we are aiming for realism, that would be one way to do it. But since romance options change so much in each game to make everyone happy and accommodate player experience I don't know if it would happen. The story IS all about Shepard, so I think you have to be willing to suspend some disbelief on what five normal career woman or men would be doing out in space.

[Unbannable]

IsaacShep wrote...

So is their visual taste along with lack of care about the partners' morals and actions. So whatever.

For Bioware to imbue the NPCs with a more accurate and personal moral code, would require FAR MORE writing, dialogue and scripting. 

The same could be said about their sexuality.  Of course, the video game medium severely limits full characterization, so it's unavoidable for them to take short cuts.

If I wanted accurate and complex characterization, the kind that mirrors real life, I would read a George R Martin book

[shepskisaac]

Unbannable wrote...

For Bioware to imbue the NPCs with a more accurate and personal moral code, would require FAR MORE writing, dialogue and scripting.

Not really. A simple "sorry, I ain't into guys like you" line would be enough. The game already has flags for all the moral choices. Or you simple make a Renegade/Paragon check. VERY simple.

[Ryzaki]

Unbannable wrote...

Professional people with demanding jobs have a very difficult time finding a mate, so I wouldn't even say it's even unlikely. 

And they all have the time to have a relationship with Shep then? And despite having variable personalities (as well as SHep) all want to bone him/her? Really? That's unlikely. Let's not even get into the xeno romances.

Actually, that is unrealistic.  You can't just be attracted to someone of the same sex simply because they're hot, unless you yourself already have a bisexual disposition.

A genuinely heterosexual person would be repulsed by the thought of sexual contact with a member of the same sex, regardless of how attractive that person is.  I know it repulses me

No it's not. Plenty of people who identify as straight (please not the words I used) will find a certain member of the s/s attractive enough to "go gay" for. Unlikely but the same goes for the o/s romances.

Heterosexuals are far more likely to admire (as in want to be them) extremely attractive members of the same sex, than want to jump their bones.

Jealousy would also be a huge factor, due to competition for mates..

Far more likely yes. But nothing about Shep goes into the likely category.

Yeah we have enough jealousy in ME thanks don't need more.

Eh?  What reality do you live in?

The same one you do. If you don't think reality is stranger then fiction look around a bit and wait a moment. You'll soon start WTFing like the rest of us.

[Ryzaki]

Unbannable wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

So is their visual taste along with lack of care about the partners' morals and actions. So whatever.

For Bioware to imbue the NPCs with a more accurate and personal moral code, would require FAR MORE writing, dialogue and scripting. 

The same could be said about their sexuality.  Of course, the video game medium severely limits full characterization, so it's unavoidable for them to take short cuts.

If I wanted accurate and complex characterization, the kind that mirrors real life, I would read a George R Martin book

And the bolded is why everyone being Shep/Warden/Hawke sexual works for me.

@Issac: This is the last thing I'll say to you because I am acting OOC because of my agitation. So goodbye!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:02 .

[jlb524]

pizu wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Well, hopefully in the future they won't make every female LI interested in the male PC no matter what....practically clawing at his clothes to get him into bed (cuz that's totally realistic)...that ruins character integrity the most, IMO.

Shepard is the sexiest.

Right, so sexy he can turn straight guys bisexual.

[Ryzaki]

Unbannable wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

So is their visual taste along with lack of care about the partners' morals and actions. So whatever.

For Bioware to imbue the NPCs with a more accurate and personal moral code, would require FAR MORE writing, dialogue and scripting. 

The same could be said about their sexuality.  Of course, the video game medium severely limits full characterization, so it's unavoidable for them to take short cuts.

If I wanted accurate and complex characterization, the kind that mirrors real life, I would read a George R Martin book

Actually no it wouldn't. Just would need a line at most and some more triggers in some dialogue. DAO could've easily have done it. (hell people have mods where the mod romance dumps the Warden for certain decisions). Certain characters already call your PC out for decisions (Leliana with the urn, Alistair with killing Conner) a kill romance condition would've taken not even a minute to add.

[1136342t54_]

Unbannable wrote...

Actually, in this context, the all bi option doesn't even concern sexuality, because the characters aren't truly bisexual at all.

As has been mentioned before, the characters have no personal sexuality, since their sexuality is determined by the PC.

That would only make sense if the same sex PC was able to romance them in the first game.

[Unbannable]

Ryzaki wrote...

And they all have the time to have a relationship with Shep then? And despite having variable personalities (as well as SHep) all want to bone him/her? Really? That's unlikely. Let's not even get into the xeno romances.

They all serve on the same ship in close quarters.  You've never been in the Military I presume, so it's probably hard for you to understand.

No it's not. Plenty of people who identify as straight (please not the words I used) will find a certain member of the s/s attractive enough to "go gay" for. Unlikely but the same goes for the o/s romances.

Sexual behavior and sexual orientation aren't necessarily the same, yes I know that.  But, don't make it seem as though thats a normal occurrence because it's not. 

In cases like what you describe, the person's sexual orientation is bisexual (although they may think of themselves as straight), with a strong lean towards the opposite sex....until of course an attractive member of the same sex comes a long and reminds them what they truly are.

And you're far more likely to come across "professed" homosexuals sleeping with members of the opposite sex, than professed heterosexuals sleeping with members of the same sex.

There are several famous self identified lesbians I'm aware of that eventually ended up with opposite sex partners.

Modifié par Unbannable, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:16 .

[Ryzaki]

Unbannable wrote...
They all serve on the same ship in close quarters.  You've never been in the Military I presume, so it's probably hard for you to understand.
Sexual behavior and sexual orientation aren't necessarily the same, yes I know that.  But, don't make it seem as though thats a normal occurrence because it's not. 

In cases like what you describe, the person's sexual orientation is bisexual (although they may think of themselves
as straight), with a strong lean towards the opposite sex....until of course an attractive member of the same sex comes a long and reminds them what they truly are.

And you're far more likely to come across "professed" homosexuals sleeping with members of the opposite sex, than professed heterosexuals sleeping with members of the same sex.

There are several famous self identified lesbians I'm aware of that eventually ended up with opposite sex partners.

Nope haven't. 

Where did I say it's a normal occurence? 

Nothing in ME is a normal occurence.

Eh I'm not getting into an orientation debate.

There's no reason Shep can't have a crew of bisexual crewmembers or crewmembers that identify as straight (but according to you are really bisexual) until a s/s Shep approaches them. It's not unrealistic.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:21 .

[jlb524]

Unbannable wrote...

And you're far more likely to come across "professed" homosexuals sleeping with members of the opposite sex, than professed heterosexuals sleeping with members of the same sex.

There are several famous self identified lesbians I'm aware of that eventually ended up with opposite sex partners.

If you think about it, it's far more embarrasing for a straight person to admit they've slept with the opposite sex because it's considered 'wrong'.

Don't worry, I know of plenty of professed heterosexuals that have slept with the s/s.

Modifié par jlb524, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:32 .