25715 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I wonder if one of the scathing insults on multiplayer will be 'OH! YOU SHOOT GAY! BET YOU ROMANCED STEVE, GAYBOY!'

followed by a confirmation. And then a very silent room.

I'm torn between laughing sadly and facepalming.

Hah! I'd consider that a GOOD thing, personally. Multiplayer, that bigotted ugly world, is only so ugly depending on the multiplayer. If I played Halo, I would be screamed down by crazy ass sexists left and right. I don't play Halo. Too much stress.

*snip*

 


The mute button, and Itunes are you best friends with it comes to Halo or COD Multiplayer.   General chat mute  and a nice play list and lets go.. Oh and good groupd of friends to party up with .

[Abispa]

EDIT: Okay... how the hell did this post wind up on this thread? I need sleep, I think...

Modifié par Abispa, 28 janvier 2012 - 02:40 .

[Augoeides]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Today is a sad day, folks. We lost a gay in Mass Effect to the Power of Retcon.

MissOuJ wrote...

Also, kudos (and by kudos I mean my neverending hate) for Dietz for both queer and disability erasure! Hendel, gay? No! Lemme write him "oogling" an asari dancer with Anderson like a proper bloke (and I'd maybe let that slide as an indication for his bi-sexuality if it weren't for the comment about "going to bars to look for the company 'of the opposite sex'" a couple pages after that gem. No gay people in the future! Got it!).

I.... uhhh.... what!? WHAT!? WHAT THE ****!?!?! RAAAGE!!!

I will murder Dietz with a projectile bear trap

There are no smileys angry enough to display my rage.

 

Wait forget the smileys...I'm still trying to wrap my brain around a projectile bear trap... 

Imagine a catapult or cannon of sorts that flings open bear traps at people, bear traps that are rigged to snap shut after they reach a certain distance.

[shepskisaac]

ElitePinecone wrote...
and Hudson talked about having the player choose an opposite-sex ME/ME2 LI in the new-game story generator.

Do you have a link to that? I don't remember this

ElitePinecone wrote...
The other feature (s/s romances) is niche content that, while important to the game and its fans, has never been its focus. [...] Its content is not a drawcard to the vast majority of their target market, or their traditional market, offers no ongoing revenue streams and was only included because Bioware had some extra time up their sleeves.

I agree that the comparsion with MP is not the best. But with other choices in the game it is an absolutely valid comparsion. MaleShep & FemShep have nearly equally rich content & options. Paragon & Renegade Sheps have equally rich content & options. Race A Shep, Race B Shep & Race C Shep have equally rich content & options. Soldier Shep & Engenieer Shep have equally rich amount of content. Had BioWare evaluated the entire game, its options and cits hoices based solely on potential revenue stream, then there would be little, if any choices in this game at all. Less than 18% of Sheps are female. Probably no more than 5% of pople pick Engineer class. How many black Sheps are there? 10%? About third of players play Paragon. The point of designing a game with choices is to make these choices different, but equally rich in content and quality, like I already said earlier. I mean, that's BioWare's own philosphy! Does Engineer suck compred to a Soldier? No. They work just as hard to ensure that players who pick the most unpopular class that provides minimal revenue have equally great experience as those who happen to pick the class played by over 65% of all customers. Same goes for race, paragon/renegade morality system choices, gender etc. So why shouldn't we expect the same philospohy to be applied to romances?

Let's even forget about ME1 & ME2. You can't fix imbalance that already exists because of lack of m/m romances in these two games. But if they already ackowledged their mistake of not having m/m romances in previous games by implementing them now, then why not make things the right way at least in this game? Why does straight ManShep has to get richer content than anyone else AGAIN? Why should gay ManShep have only 1 oppurtunity to start a romance in ME3 when any other Shep will have at least 2? Because of popularity, or lack of it? Then why bother working on improvements to the Engenieer class? Why not cater just to Paragons? Again, the same philosphy applies. Of course 1 is better than zero, but that doesn't mean the content for GayShep suddenly becomes excluded from being evaluated based on its quality, scope, detail & richness, just because this content finally exists in some form. If straight ManShep, straight FemShep & LesShep all end up having 2 oppurtunities at new romance in ME3 while gay ManShep ends up having only 1, then BioWare will still not execute the concept of giving romance choices properly. Better than in ME1/ME2? Sure. But still not the way it should be executed - equally rich. If they're already doing GayShep content and want to fix the flaw in romance choice from ME1 & ME2, why not do it fully right in ME3?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 28 janvier 2012 - 02:51 .

[nitefyre410]

Augoeides wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Today is a sad day, folks. We lost a gay in Mass Effect to the Power of Retcon.

MissOuJ wrote...

Also, kudos (and by kudos I mean my neverending hate) for Dietz for both queer and disability erasure! Hendel, gay? No! Lemme write him "oogling" an asari dancer with Anderson like a proper bloke (and I'd maybe let that slide as an indication for his bi-sexuality if it weren't for the comment about "going to bars to look for the company 'of the opposite sex'" a couple pages after that gem. No gay people in the future! Got it!).

I.... uhhh.... what!? WHAT!? WHAT THE ****!?!?! RAAAGE!!!

I will murder Dietz with a projectile bear trap

There are no smileys angry enough to display my rage.

 

Wait forget the smileys...I'm still trying to wrap my brain around a projectile bear trap... 

Imagine a catapult or cannon of sorts that flings open bear traps at people, bear traps that are rigged to snap shut after they reach a certain distance.

 

are we talking a Trebuchet... because I thinking something more along the lines of the steampower catapults you find on aircraft carries.   One has distance but the other has more power.

[Augoeides]

As long as the bear trap connects, clamps and causes them to die in a most visceral manner I'm happy

[Jazinto]

Medhia Nox wrote...

To people like Luca_Stern and bas_kon: S/S romances are the only reason you play RPGs?

Was the story of ME 1 and 2 not good enough to sustain your interest without romance at all?

Do you really think the "romances" in video games satisfy the same type of storytelling niche they fill in say... a movie or a book?

Yes, romances in these games do form "connections" to characters - but it's far more based on the "what happens off game" imagination of the player - than what's provided in game (which I find extremely poor quality).

EDIT: I would understand your view more if the romances truly played an integral part to the story. But they certainly have not so far.

Most RPGs I know don't really have any kind of romance option and certainly never anything so big as Bioware's romances. And of course the Mass Effect Team did very much include f/f relationships so far. Surely they were conscious of their not including any m/m options. And DAO had Zevran by the time ME2 released, so it very much was a decision of the Mass Effect Team themselves. If there wouldn't have been any romances I wouldn't have minded nothing gay in the game. But they had f/f and bird and frog alien relationships, almost a robot one too, but they decided not to include any kind of m/m content. That's why I said allright, no Mass Effect for me then.

Modifié par Luca Stern, 28 janvier 2012 - 04:55 .

[Jazinto]

ElitePinecone wrote...

If I would have known it was only a crew member, maybe I wouldn't have bothered. It's never happened before that a character outside the squad had as much interactions and was just as well developed as an actual squad member. Crew members don't fight alongside you, which also means they have much less opportunity to comment on what Shepard does. This time they might do it a lot better than Kelly in ME2, but that's still basically how it goes. It just looks like it wouldn't be equal to the other romances.

So I wouldn't mind so much if the single M/M option turned out to be a squad member. Only one option is fine as long as it's a good one. But having only one choice and for him to be a crew member seems like the worst of all possiblities. I'm still glad they're including us, but I won't praise Bioware just for that, not without seeing how they did it. I reserve my judgement until I know more.

Wouldn't the worst of all possibilities be no m/m option at all? 

Up until the game was delayed, s/s romances didn't seem to be planned at all for ME3. There were no new romances in the game, and Hudson talked about having the player choose an opposite-sex ME/ME2 LI in the new-game story generator. 

Cortez and Sam might be 'just a crew member', but they have banter, roles on the ship and about as many conversations with Shepard as any other member of the squad. They are, for all intents and purposes, squadmember-level characters on the Normandy. They might not fight with Shepard on the ground, but they have important roles on the ship that don't boil down to feeding fish or handling emails. They're involved in at least 2 quests, Cortez can take on a mission in battle with his shuttle and they're full choices when Shepard has the option to tell someone who her/his LI is. 

I'm not defending their inclusion just for the sake of it. By all means be disappointed, but things could be a lot worse. Things *are* a lot worse in 99% of other games, even RPGs that allow the creation of a player character. One option is better than none. and even though it's taken two years of farcical obfuscation, Bioware are doing something.  

Side-note: to people complaining about the inclusion of multiplayer rather than s/s romances, I'd urge some perspective. 

One feature has millions of potential fans, offers significant scope for future DLC content and revenue streams, has been promoted as one of the defining new features of the game, has anecdotally significantly increased interest in the game outside of Bioware's devoted fanbase, and may be a reason why preorders for ME3 are currently four times as high as they were for its predecessor at the same tme before launch. 

The other feature is niche content that, while important to the game and its fans, has never been its focus. 50% of players never even use romances. Its announcement sparked heated debate, forum flame wars, threats of boycotts from wingnuts and a legion of people calling ME3 a "same-sex dating sim". Its content is not a drawcard to the vast majority of their target market, or their traditional market, offers no ongoing revenue streams and was only included because Bioware had some extra time up their sleeves. 

Different priorities. Justifiably. I'm under no false impressions, and I don't think anyone should be: complaining about the 'wasting of resources' on multiplayer instead of designing more s/s romances is, with respect, naive. 

Well they couldn't do no m/m after they announced there was gonna be one. So it wasn't so much of a possibility. Do you know what I mean? They announced s/s for everyone and that's what they did, but it might not be like the other romances, like some of us were hoping for. The importance of Cortez is interpretable. I simply doubt he will be as well developed as a squad member, but that remains to be seen.
Yes, it's good they're including m/m content. That's not the point. They said they were going to include m/m, but it may turn out to be more like an improved Kelly relationship than VS or any other romance. They fostered expectations, willingly or not, (but knowingly it turns out if read that new kotaku article*) they may have no intention of fullfilling. If that's the case, I take issue with that.

*It's not much to go on:

kotaku
Fan reaction to new Mass Effect character James Vega—voiced by Freddie Prinze, Jr.—has been passionate.
Some dismiss the character as a Jersey Shore-style meathead while others wondered if he'd be the same-sex romance option for male Commander Shepards. Walters understands all the heat, though. "Everyone's seeing James out of context," he says. "We kind of did it a bit with the Illusive Man in Mass Effect 2, but we really don't tout or promote a character before the game came out."

I don't get the last part. Because they clearly promoted Vega, introducing him, posing him in screenshots and trailers, the Freddie Prinze Jr. reveal,...

Modifié par Luca Stern, 28 janvier 2012 - 06:14 .

[dgcatanisiri]

Drawing attention to the (to date) only new squadmate on the team with a name actor playing him (say what you will about Freddie Prinze's career, he IS a name known to most people)... I suppose I can see that as supposedly taking him out of context, in that they focus on him so heavily because he's the new guy and the returning players don't know him that well. I think it's flimsy, but it's an interpretation of what's being said...

[ElitePinecone]

Edit: quote bracket fail

@Isaac: I can't find any links about the ME3 new-game LI thing, perhaps I just imagined it...

They work just as hard to ensure that players who pick the most unpopular class that provides minimal revenue have equally great experience as those who happen to pick the class played by over 65% of all customers. Same goes for race, paragon/renegade morality system choices, gender etc. So why shouldn't we expect the same philospohy to be applied to romances?

You're right - they make some unpopular player choices (Engineers, Renegades) rewarding in spite of business sense. 

But nobody gets antsy or outraged when Bioware says they're going to make a kickass new Engineer power. There's no organised group campaigning against Renegades having the same options as Paragons, or Infiltrators getting the same attention in skill design as Soldiers. 

As cynical as it is, I can easily imagine a company using the 'small market' argument to specifically not include s/s content while continuing to produce content for player segments that are as small if not smaller. 

I don't know whether Bioware is that kind of company, and I don't know what motivates their internal design processes for things like LIs and distributing the squad. I hope it's not that reason. 

Just as likely - if it happens that we get one exclusive gay and lesbian option - is that we only got Steve and Sam because they only designed Steve and Sam as specifically S/S characters in the last eiight months. There may have never been plans to make Vega or the VS available for both genders. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 28 janvier 2012 - 09:18 .

[ElitePinecone]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Today is a sad day, folks. We lost a gay in Mass Effect to the Power of Retcon.

MissOuJ wrote...

Also, kudos (and by kudos I mean my neverending hate) for Dietz for both queer and disability erasure! Hendel, gay? No! Lemme write him "oogling" an asari dancer with Anderson like a proper bloke (and I'd maybe let that slide as an indication for his bi-sexuality if it weren't for the comment about "going to bars to look for the company 'of the opposite sex'" a couple pages after that gem. No gay people in the future! Got it!).

You can't even justify it as him being bisexual because in Ascension, Kahlee mentioned several times that she wouldn't have a chance with him nor would any other girl.

Okay, that's it. Now I'm angry. 

Actually, pretty damn enraged. 

I get that the novel had a short deadline. I get that Dietz isn't familiar with the lore, or Karpyshyn's characters.

But this is ridiculous. Crazy. Ludicrous. Laughable. Absurd. I'm running out of synonyms. 

To not even bother to check the character's history in the previous books? To not check with Bioware's IP people the story bible, Ascension?

It's not as though "HENDEL IS GAY" isn't his biggest character feature. Any cursory glance of Mitra's scenes in preparation for an appearance in Deception would make it abiundantly obvious that he's not interested in women. Kahlee thinks it, or says it aloud, about three times in the first half of the novel. 

My copy of Deception is probably in the mail box a few thousand kilometres away, but I can't believe the author, editor and IP team would be so inexcusably sloppy. 

Not impressed. At all. 

[Maugrim]

Luckily I was able to cancel my book order since Amazon never delivers things early to me. Honestly I'd recommend you return the book for a refund if you could. There is no way that the book can be considered a finished and complete product considering just the technical mistakes, combine it with incorrect lore and poor writing style any reasonable company would take it back.

@CaseyDHudson @masseffect @bioware @wcdietz disappointed to see only gay male in ME Universe made straight and then killed in ME: Deception

I tweeted this earlier, not that I expect to get a response, maybe if more people politely badgered them but even then I think it unlikely. I'm almost tempted to write to Mr. Dietz but I figure one letter from me was enough. If someone else were to try it they would probably get a response like I did here.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 28 janvier 2012 - 09:46 .

[LukaCrosszeria]

SageOfLife wrote...

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

This.

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

And call me a cynical S.O.B. but I'm thinking part of the reason we are seeing male/male content NOW is because of PR reasons.  Bioware has been often praised by the media for being the forefunner of having significant GLBT in their games, as they should (Well, maybe not the "T" part.)  I think they want to keep their status.  It makes sense as a year ago they were insisting Male Shepard was 100% straight.

Liara is a s/s full squadmate option for female Shepard, who's been with her since the start, while male Shepard should now get someone who he doesn't have that history with, who is not a squadmate? <_< BioWare is actually obliged to do better, because they're a company famous for being a forerunner of having s/s romance content in their games. They know their own rep, they know what people expect. Rather than perpetuate this unfairness, they should have catered to both female and male Shepard right from start when it came to s/s content. Now it just looks like some straight male designer's fantasy about lesbian alien sex was ok'd, but maleShep getting any was icky, apparently.

If maleShep doesn't get Kaidan, he's been slighted again. Even Vega can't hold a candle to Liara, s/s romance-wise.

Edited for annoyance-induced typos and omissions.

Modifié par LukaCrosszeria, 28 janvier 2012 - 10:23 .

[bleetman]

Superb. I've barely been awake twenty minutes and I'm already enraged.

Today is going to be a good day.

[Augoeides]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Luckily I was able to cancel my book order since Amazon never delivers things early to me. Honestly I'd recommend you return the book for a refund if you could. There is no way that the book can be considered a finished and complete product considering just the technical mistakes, combine it with incorrect lore and poor writing style any reasonable company would take it back.

@CaseyDHudson @masseffect @bioware @wcdietz disappointed to see only gay male in ME Universe made straight and then killed in ME: Deception

I tweeted this earlier, not that I expect to get a response, maybe if more people politely badgered them but even then I think it unlikely. I'm almost tempted to write to Mr. Dietz but I figure one letter from me was enough. If someone else were to try it they would probably get a response like I did here.

Well I'm glad to see others have maintained their rational side I just went a little berserk and tweeted this:

@wcdietz
I hope Deception is intended as a parody, otherwise what has reportedly
been done to Hendel Mitra is an unforgivable attack on gays

While it may not have actually been intended as an attack it feels like it so much, even if it is the product of someone who doesn't know researching lore and character history from smashing wheat crackers on their forehead rather than malicious intent to 'straight-ify' a gay character. The reason I say unforgivable attack is because due to pure ignorance and idiocy he's stripped something important, not definitive within the universe (but definitive amongst amongst fans) but still very important to that character from that character in order to facilitate what? Some macho-chest pounding, stripper bar tease soons meant to tantalize the minds of Mass Effect fans?

Maybe it's just me but it gives me flashbacks of the 'Cure for Gays' nonsense we've probably all seen and some have probably endured, I know have, hell I've been accused of being demon possessed and had someone try and pray that my homosexuality would be exorcised, anyway, that's me being haunted by that but this change although never recognized as one, because the writer is totally unaware echoes that nasty stuff.

If you fire a rocket into a person's backyard even though you think its empty but end up killing someone you're no less responsible because you were stupid and ignorant.

I had this wild theory, and my god I hoped it would wind up being real: that all these previews are red herring publicity stunts: false excerpts to sate fan cries while drumming up a storm with what appears to be a horrible joke. Alas, if it was to drum up business rather than a pure fan fervor it looks like it is failing, that and apparently the entire book is available online ( I can't confirm this and I won't even try to) and I think an entire parody book as a red herring is a bit much even for a publicity farce.

Modifié par Augoeides, 28 janvier 2012 - 10:50 .

[Blacklash93]

Augoeides wrote...
Well I'm glad to see others have maintained their rational side I just went a little berserk and tweeted this:

@wcdietz
I hope Deception is intended as a parody, otherwise what has reportedly
been done to Hendel Mitra is an unforgivable attack on gays

While it may not have actually been intended as an attack it feels like it so much, even if it is the product of someone who doesn't know researching lore and character history from smashing wheat crackers on their forehead rather than malicious intent to 'straight-ify' a gay character. The reason I say unforgivable attack is because due to pure ignorance and idiocy he's stripped something important, not definitive within the universe (but definitive amongst amongst fans) but still very important to that character from that character in order to facilitate what? Some macho-chest pounding, stripper bar tease soons meant to tantalize the minds of Mass Effect fans?

Maybe it's just me but it gives me flashbacks of the 'Cure for Gays' nonsense we've probably all seen and some have probably endured, I know have, hell I've been accused of being demon possessed and had someone try and pray that my homosexuality would be exorcised, anyway, that's me being haunted by that but this change although never recognized as one, because the writer is totally unaware echoes that nasty stuff.

If you fire a rocket into a person's backyard even though you think its empty but end up killing someone you're no less responsible because you were stupid and ignorant.

I had this wild theory, and my god I hoped it would wind up being real: that all these previews are red herring publicity stunts: false excerpts to sate fan cries while drumming up a storm with what appears to be a horrible joke. Alas, if it was to drum up business rather than a pure fan fervor it looks like it is failing, that and apparently the entire book is available online ( I can't confirm this and I won't even try to) and I think an entire parody book as a red herring is a bit much even for a publicity farce.

It's not an attack on gays, but rather Dietz being an incompetent writer who didn't do proper research on the series and its characters. Information that is readily available on the Mass Effect Wiki. Hendel magically turning straight is just a small part of it.

Deception is an insult to all Mass Effect fans period.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 28 janvier 2012 - 01:57 .

[Ryzaki]

I don't understand getting upset about Deception.

The whole thing turns the characters OOC and into hilarious parodies. (Not to mention Gillian somehow accelerates her aging by 2 years.)

I'm pretty sure at this point the ME writers just want to pretend that it doesn't exist.

It's a trollfic as far as I'm concerned.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 janvier 2012 - 01:48 .

[Augoeides]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...
-snip-

It's not an attack on gays, but rather Dietz being an incompetent writer who didn't do proper research on the series and its characters. Information that is readily available on the Mass Effect Wiki. Hendel magically turning stragiht is just a small part of it.

Deception is an insult to all Mass Effect fans period.

You're right of course BUT behind the veneer of me being an **** is sensitive person and this struck a really, really, really, raw nerve.

[Blacklash93]

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't understand getting upset about Deception.

The whole thing turns the characters OOC and into hilarious parodies. (Not to mention Gillian somehow accelerates her aging by 2 years.)

I'm pretty sure at this point the ME writers just want to pretend that it doesn't exist.

It's a trollfic as far as I'm concerned.

At this point I'm hoping Bioware comes out and officially disowns it and cuts it from the canon.

And then Drew takes the book and revises it for a re-release (never gonna happen).

[shepskisaac]

Wait, Hendel is now straight lol?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 28 janvier 2012 - 03:48 .

[Ryzaki]

Yup and he apparently digs the Asari chicks.

And Gillian grew out of her autism and is 18 despite being born 16 years ago from the events of the book.

I s*** you not.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 janvier 2012 - 04:19 .

[slimgrin]

One of Abispa's comments prompted me to review the trend of my posts in this thread and I'm ashamed to say there's no lack of internet rage in them. I got away from what I initially thought was important, and that is letting everyone have a choice and be able to take part in character interaction. I owe the people in this thread an apology and I won't be harping on the topic anymore.

Modifié par slimgrin, 28 janvier 2012 - 05:16 .

[Finis Valorum]

IsaacShep wrote...

Wait, Hendel is now straight lol?

Provided he takes painful injections every ten minutes of course.

[SolidBeast]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yup and he apparently digs the Asari chicks.

And Gillian grew out of her autism and is 18 despite being born 16 years ago from the events of the book.

I s*** you not.

Also, a 100-year-old beat-up batarian slaver ship has the "standard tantalus drive core" (as used in the original Normandy).

Also, Asari now believe in God.

[Ryzaki]

SolidBeast wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yup and he apparently digs the Asari chicks.

And Gillian grew out of her autism and is 18 despite being born 16 years ago from the events of the book.

I s*** you not.

Also, a 100-year-old beat-up batarian slaver ship has the "standard tantalus drive core" (as used in the original Normandy).

Also, Asari now believe in God.

hilarious. Embrassing as hell for BW though. Someone(s) didn't do their job right.