25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Jazinto]

I'm trying to make sense of this. Based on what we know and reasonably assume. The best I've come up with is the following scenario:

Vega was already an alternative male LI for FemShep in case they didn't romance and save Kaidan, Jacob, Garrus or Thane. Bioware decides to take a few extra months for development and suddenly wants to include a m/m option. Rather than making an existing character (including James at this point) bisexual, they want to make exclusive s/s options for the first time, so they write another completely new character for the sole purpose of being gay, but they don't want to invest so much time as it would take to make him a squad member and settle for a crew member.

The question is why did they decide to include a m/m option? And why would they insist on making him exclusive? Did they wanted to "do it right"/"make it right"? Then why didn't they really do it right and take the time to make him a full squad member? Yes, time is money, but why bother at all then? ME and ME2 sold perfectly well without any m/m content. If they wanted to compromise, they could have just made James or whoever bisexual.

Modifié par Luca Stern, 29 janvier 2012 - 05:27 .

[shepskisaac]

Abispa wrote...

But then Bioware blew that excuse out of the water when they admitted that they created the Garrus and Tali romances as a fan service and defended them as such, even though they themselves thought they were silly.

Yup.

Anyway, a general article on gay romances/characters in video games on IGN: uk.games.ign.com/articles/121/1217180p1.html Nothing groundbreaking, still ok read. Every little article like that helps. Though as much as BioWare has done in regards to portraying s/s character & romances and should be praised for it in every article, the issue of KOTOR, ME1 & ME2 lacking a single trace of male homosexuality while having female homosexualuity at the same time, coupled with some nonsense statements from the devs regarding that issue (also about TOR), is a rather visible scratch on their established (and in great part fully deserved) image of one of the most, if not THE most, inclusive & LGBT-friendly video game developers. In the article, The Sims series for example was called out on not having actual full equality utill The Sims 3. But BioWare's mistakes were not mentioned.

[Abispa]

Luca Stern wrote...

The question is why did they decide to include a m/m option? And why would they insist on making him exclusive? Did they wanted to "do it right"/"make it right"? Then why didn't they really do it right and take the time to make him a full squad member? Yes, time is money, but why bother at all then? ME and ME2 sold perfectly well without any m/m content. If they wanted to compromise, they could have just made James or whoever bisexual.

Since most of the real interaction with LIs occurs outside of combat (makes sense, really), I am not unhappy about non-squadmates being made s/s LIs. The only reason I'd like to see some of the squadmates as LIs is NOT because of "fairness," or the belief that squadmate relationships are superior, but because many of them already have a sizable s/s fanbase established who would be overjoyed about the option in ME3. S/s critics are going to go ballistic anyway, MOST gamers don't care either way, so Bioware may as well get the most approval points from the s/s fans by giving them their Kaidan, Joker, Ashley, and/or Miranda.

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

Luca Stern wrote...

Vega was already an alternative male LI for FemShep in case they didn't romance and save Kaidan, Jacob, Garrus or Thane.

That's the thing: Why isn't there an equivalent for ManShep?  Diana Allers looks like a fling more than anything.

[shepskisaac]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

That's the thing: Why isn't there an equivalent for ManShep?  Diana Allers looks like a fling more than anything.

Maybe because for once they realized straight ManShep already has a harem of LIs, including unkillable Liara, more than any other Shep in the game? But then again, it seems like he will have the most bigger and smaller LIs up for new romance in ME3 anyway lol So yeah...

Modifié par IsaacShep, 29 janvier 2012 - 05:53 .

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

IsaacShep wrote...

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

That's the thing: Why isn't there an equivalent for ManShep?  Diana Allers looks like a fling more than anything.

Maybe because for once they realized straight ManShep already has a harem of LIs, including unkillable Liara, more than any other Shep in the game?

Actually, Liara is the only ManShep option that has plot armor.  FemShep has FOUR LIs with plot armor (Liara, Garrus, Vega, Samantha).

[Ryzaki]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

That's the thing: Why isn't there an equivalent for ManShep?  Diana Allers looks like a fling more than anything.

Maybe because for once they realized straight ManShep already has a harem of LIs, including unkillable Liara, more than any other Shep in the game?

Actually, Liara is the only ManShep option that has plot armor.  FemShep has FOUR LIs with plot armor (Liara, Garrus, Vega, Samantha).

Garrus can die in ME2. Liara and Samantha are s/s options, Vega isn't met until ME3.

[shepskisaac]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

Actually, Liara is the only ManShep option that has plot armor.  FemShep has FOUR LIs with plot armor (Liara, Garrus, Vega, Samantha).

Why do you include Liara & Samantha? Thought we were talking straight LIs. And Garrus doesn't have a plot armor, he may be dead just as Thane

Anyway, peeps, from tomorrow, start keeping an eye on www.esrb.org/ 2 years ago, exactly 6 weeks before ME2's release ESRB released full rating details which provided some interesting info. Maybe we will find out something useful regarding s/s romances in the rating description for ME3. It happens to every game, and always many weeks before the release.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 29 janvier 2012 - 06:06 .

[Jazinto]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

Luca Stern wrote...

Vega was already an alternative male LI for FemShep in case they didn't romance and save Kaidan, Jacob, Garrus or Thane.

That's the thing: Why isn't there an equivalent for ManShep?  Diana Allers looks like a fling more than anything.

Well, Tali and Garrus. Kaidan and Ashley. Liara and James...

[Abispa]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

That's the thing: Why isn't there an equivalent for ManShep?  Diana Allers looks like a fling more than anything.

Maybe because for once they realized straight ManShep already has a harem of LIs, including unkillable Liara, more than any other Shep in the game?

Actually, Liara is the only ManShep option that has plot armor.  FemShep has FOUR LIs with plot armor (Liara, Garrus, Vega, Samantha).

Granted, I haven't read the whole script (I don't even know how that's possible without going mad), but Garrus CAN die, and Vega and Samantha haven't shown up yet, and Bioware, I thought,  has said that anyone can die in ME3.

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

Luca Stern wrote...

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

Luca Stern wrote...

Vega was already an alternative male LI for FemShep in case they didn't romance and save Kaidan, Jacob, Garrus or Thane.

That's the thing: Why isn't there an equivalent for ManShep?  Diana Allers looks like a fling more than anything.

Well, Tali and Garrus. Kaidan and Ashley. Liara and James...

That does not make sure because Liara is for both genders. 

[dgcatanisiri]

I'm still hoping onto a shred of hope that the only reason that there currently are no indications of a s/s romance with Vega is because of the 'promoting the new guy' and not wanting to scare the Straight Male Gamer group with the fact that their new bro character is going to be 'gay,' so the current trailers are only playing on the fact that he's a friend to male Shepard and nothing more. I do know it's a slim hope, but dammit, let me have it!

My biggest problem with a Normandy crew romance, rather than a squad romance, is how I picture my Shepard is attracted to someone who can fight alongside him, with both of them out on the battlefield, watching one another's back. Not that any shipboard romance wouldn't be capable of it, but in the course of ME3, he'd be drawn to Kaidan or Vega or Garrus a lot sooner than Cortez because he's down on the ground with them.

[Jazinto]

Abispa wrote...

Since most of the real interaction with LIs occurs outside of combat (makes sense, really), I am not unhappy about non-squadmates being made s/s LIs. The only reason I'd like to see some of the squadmates as LIs is NOT because of "fairness," or the belief that squadmate relationships are superior, but because many of them already have a sizable s/s fanbase established who would be overjoyed about the option in ME3. S/s critics are going to go ballistic anyway, MOST gamers don't care either way, so Bioware may as well get the most approval points from the s/s fans by giving them their Kaidan, Joker, Ashley, and/or Miranda.

Don't know about you, but I like taking Anders and Zevran with me on a mission.

How much interaction was there with Anderson, Joker and Kelly or even the Illusive Man? How much with Garrus, Miranda and Mordin? Squadmate doesn't only mean "fighting alongside you", it also means more time was spent on making them, each of them have their very own look and all of them have way more dialog than any non-squad npc.

[Negam]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...
That's the thing: Why isn't there an equivalent for ManShep?  Diana Allers looks like a fling more than anything.

So, what's Diana Allers' LI status? Is she exclusively available for mShep?

Modifié par Negam, 29 janvier 2012 - 06:40 .

[Abispa]

Luca Stern wrote...

Don't know about you, but I like taking Anders and Zevran with me on a mission.

Party banter during missions in ME really is not really a strong feature. The only time I found it anywhere near as charming as DA was when I took Garrus with me on Mordin's loyalty mission. But then it may be a feature they improve upon in ME3.

[shepskisaac]

Negam wrote...

So, what's Diana Aller's LI status? Is she exclusively available for mShep?

We don't know yet. She maybe only for mShep or for both. She *seems* to be ME3's equivalent to Kelly, a kind of "let's flirt for now and after you're done with final mission we will do more" kind of thing, so perhaps both. But no one found so far any proof either way

[SolidBeast]

Abispa wrote...

Luca Stern wrote...

Don't know about you, but I like taking Anders and Zevran with me on a mission.

Party banter during missions in ME really is not really a strong feature. The only time I found it anywhere near as charming as DA was when I took Garrus with me on Mordin's loyalty mission. But then it may be a feature they improve upon in ME3.

I agree with Luca Stern, I dragged Anders everywhere with me, and I didn't do it simply for party banter. My Hawke just wanted to spend as much time as possible with him and I liked the sense of "going through all sorts of hell together".

Modifié par SolidBeast, 29 janvier 2012 - 06:37 .

[Ryzaki]

Okay just to be a bit me is

LIs and how many times they are mentioned by name:

Ashley - 99 times (Ash) is mentioned [and yes I had it only count the capitalized version]. Her full name is mentioned 75 times

Kaidan - 167 matches

Liara - 258

Garrus - 223

Tali - 456

Thane - 118

Miranda - 148

Jacob - 119

Jack - 105

Steve - 29 (his last name by comparison is said about) 45

Samantha - 3 Traynor - 34

Kelly - 27

Shepard - 2212  

Yes several of their name callings will just be in combat but that still is more intereaction and yes I can see why people would prefer a squaddie. Describing the rachni queen to the LI isn't the same as them and Shep both going O_O when they see it together in the flesh. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 06:44 .

[Negam]

IsaacShep wrote...

Negam wrote...

So, what's Diana Allers' LI status? Is she exclusively available for mShep?

We don't know yet. She maybe only for mShep or for both.

Thanks, Isaac. And why aren't people sure? Is her dialogue gender-neutral?

[shepskisaac]

Negam wrote...

Thanks, Isaac. And why aren't people sure? Is her dialogue gender-neutral?

From what we see yes and it's also simply not that heavy on the romance part in general, like Kelly's dialogues in ME2. So that's why (unless we discover something else) it really impossible for us to figure it out who can romance her

Ryzaki wrote...

Tali - 456

Modifié par IsaacShep, 29 janvier 2012 - 06:53 .

[Ryzaki]

lmao .

[OmegaBlue0231]

IsaacShep wrote...

Negam wrote...

Thanks, Isaac. And why aren't people sure? Is her dialogue gender-neutral?

From what we see yes and it's also simply not that heavy on the romance part in general, like Kelly's dialogues in ME2. So that's why (unless we discover something else) it really impossible for us to figure it out who can romance her

Ryzaki wrote...

Tali - 456

That made me laugh so much.

[SolidBeast]

Ryzaki wrote...
Jacob - 119

Ryzaki wrote...
Steve - 29 (his last name by comparison is said about) 45

@Isaac - ha! adorable.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 29 janvier 2012 - 07:04 .