25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Chun Hei]

SomethingSome wrote...

Kahlee tipped the server again and settled back to enjoy her drink. Anderson and Hendel were busy ogling the asari dancers, the music was good, and if it hadn’t been for the task at hand she would have been able to enjoy herself.

Not sure if I can put this here or not so gimme a heads up if it's better I delete it please, but there it is. That's the ogling asari line, taken from a preview.

So is that supposed to be the omniscient point of view or just Kahlee's? Perhaps the author has Kahlee jumping to conclusions about Hendel and she may in fact be wrong.

[Ryzaki]

Chun Hei wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Kahlee tipped the server again and settled back to enjoy her drink. Anderson and Hendel were busy ogling the asari dancers, the music was good, and if it hadn’t been for the task at hand she would have been able to enjoy herself.

Not sure if I can put this here or not so gimme a heads up if it's better I delete it please, but there it is. That's the ogling asari line, taken from a preview.

So is that supposed to be the omniscient point of view or just Kahlee's? Perhaps the author has Kahlee jumping to conclusions about Hendel and she may in fact be wrong.

Isn't Kahlee the one who said Hendel would be more interested in some dude she was talking to rather than her? 

[shepskisaac]

If it's just that then it can be pretty much easily neglected

[Tric]

Mitra is hinted as being homosexual from comments made by Kahlee Sanders. If true, this would make Hendel Mitra the first homosexual male depicted in the Mass Effect universe.

So says the Mass Effect wiki and I believe didymos put the exact quote in the Deception Discussion Thread too.

[catharsisboo]

Chun Hei wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Kahlee tipped the server again and settled back to enjoy her drink. Anderson and Hendel were busy ogling the asari dancers, the music was good, and if it hadn’t been for the task at hand she would have been able to enjoy herself.

Not sure if I can put this here or not so gimme a heads up if it's better I delete it please, but there it is. That's the ogling asari line, taken from a preview.

So is that supposed to be the omniscient point of view or just Kahlee's? Perhaps the author has Kahlee jumping to conclusions about Hendel and she may in fact be wrong.

I don't think it would matter, since Kahlee is the one who says Hendel is gay in the first place, in Ascension.

EDIT: 'd!

Modifié par catharsisboo, 30 janvier 2012 - 10:26 .

[Blacklash93]

If Kahlee thinks to herself and says to others that Hendel is only interested in men in Ascension on multiple occassions, there's no reason to doubt it. She knows him very well by the time of Ascension and besides, would Drew really say that if it weren't true?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 30 janvier 2012 - 10:30 .

[Olive Oomph]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Gianna Parasini also isn't in ME3, as far as I can tell.

As much as it annoyed some people that maleShep (and femShep? I forget) had flirting scenes with Shiala and Gianna in ME2, don't expect them to be romance interests in the third game.

I just had been thinking about Gianna yesterday, which caused me to have a look at the website of Wendy Braun, her VA, where it says, she worked on Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 (link - see bottom of the page on the right)

I know, she also has done additional voices on the other games, but I think Gianna will be back, but probably not in a bigger role.

Only Shiala had flirting scenes with femshep, not Gianna, unfortunately and much to my disappointment

[bleetman]

Given the rest of the book, it doesn't exactly seem unfair to just conclude that Dietz just screwed up, rather than trying to pull off some 'but only from Kahlee's perspective' thing.

[ElitePinecone]

bleetman wrote...

Given the rest of the book, it doesn't exactly seem unfair to just conclude that Dietz just screwed up, rather than trying to pull off some 'but only from Kahlee's perspective' thing.

Even apart from the asari dancer thing, Hendel becomes.... oafish. 

He gets into a bar fight with batarians and makes macho wisecracks, on surveillance he gives the guards he's watching stupid childish names like "four-eyes" and "fatso", and he randomly gets into confrontations with characters because it's portrayed that he can't control his anger. 

Dietz completely misunderstood the character; I think it's giving him far too much credit to describe the ogling scene as a subtle POV from Kahlee. 

The author forgot Hendel was gay, period. 

There's even a hilarious/disturbing moment that confirms this for me: when hunting down Nick, Hendel's internal thoughts include the quote:

But you’re still a pimply faced troublemaker and your ass is mine. Have a nice day, Nick. I’ll be back.

Any author who had properly researched the character would've avoided this unfortunate phrasing. 

It shouldn't have been hard to work out. The wiki page mentions it at the bottom and Kahlee says it only, oh, three or four times in Ascension. 

[Augoeides]

Okay so you all probably noticed this eons back while I was still stuck in the primordial ooze unaware of the leak, but this Steve, has a dead husband you say? A man with a husband? a HUSBAND?

Am I to interpret this correctly to mean that in the future that is Mass Effect, a man can marry a man and it is okay and it's legal?

Excuse me while I jump for joy because we have a s/s character on board who had a relationship that was (I assume) meaningful and deep enough that he and his partner wanted to get married. That sounds to me like unequivocal support for the importance and sanctity of gay marriage, and a definite and poignant stab at inequality despite how we may feel/fear homosexuals are underrepresented in Mass Effect. I'm sincerely giddy at this.

[Bundalings]

Agreed, even if he is the only gay guy for Shep in the game, the fact that he was married is a very good thing. Well, it is sad that his husband died, but still. I hope the character is otherwise compelling and likable.

[FoxHound109]

Blacklash93 wrote...

If Kahlee thinks to herself and says to others that Hendel is only interested in men in Ascension on multiple occassions, there's no reason to doubt it. She knows him very well by the time of Ascension and besides, would Drew really say that if it weren't true?

That last part is very important. People sometimes forget that characters can also work as sources of information. For example, in one of the many Morinth vs. Samara threads that spring up often, people constantly argue that you can't take Samara's word on things, but this isn't exactly the case from a writing perspective. The same applies to Kahlee here: she's not saying he's gay because of a perception she has, it's just a way for the author to work that fact in. Yes, perception matters in stories, but a lot of times perceptions can be blurred with facts of the world that the author wants the reader to know. 

[ElitePinecone]

Bundalings wrote...

Agreed, even if he is the only gay guy for Shep in the game, the fact that he was married is a very good thing. Well, it is sad that his husband died, but still. I hope the character is otherwise compelling and likable.

Funny thing, they even mention that Steve and Robert lived in New York. I thought that was pretty topical. 

From everything I've read of them, Bioware's writers are a pretty liberal bunch. Not a cabal of culture warriors, per se, but definitely sympathetic to causes like feminism and lgbt rights. 

If I had to take a guess, giving the player an NPC who is not only indispensable, but gay and formerly married, is a bit of an 'up yours' to the people who complain so loudly about everything that isn't straight as an arrow. 

Or it might just be overkill. No gay/lesbian references for two games? Sure, chuck in a gay-married gay shuttle pilot who happens to be exclusively gay. Did we mention he's gay? Because, y'know, that's important. 

Re: marriage in the Alliance generally. 

Karpyshyn and Walters (along with the other writers, particularly those pre-ME) established the Systems Alliance as something of a liberal paradise. It tends to be far more egaltarian, rule-of-law-based and cosmopolitan than many of the nations it left behind back on Earth. I would've said they made it into a space-Canada, but I'm from Australia and I know pretty much nothing about Canada. 

We see things like freedom of religion (and freedom from religion) are encoded in Alliance regs. Shepard can't tell Ashley to stop believing in whatever she believes in, but neither is there any overt religiosity in much of the dialogue. 

(Although, strangely, Mac seems to pepper his writing with 'Goodamnit' and 'Oh, God!', even in the ME3 script, if I'm reading it correctly)

Clearly the Alliance allows same-sex marriage, and although the games would never go into it, I wouldn't be surprised if other areas like adoption were similarly enlightened. 

[Chun Hei]

Well I have been wondering if I should bother to start reading the Mass Effect and Dragon Age novels and comics. Should I bother?

[Augoeides]

Chun Hei wrote...

Well I have been wondering if I should bother to start reading the Mass Effect and Dragon Age novels and comics. Should I bother?

I've never read any of them myself but I hear nothing but good stuff about the Dragon Age novels and the same about Mass Effect ones sans Deception.

[Bundalings]

The Mass Effect novels are perfectly average in my opinion, not on the same level as the fantastic and should-be comparable Halo series.

Still, as a fan of the game I did not regret reading them.

[MACharlie1]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Bundalings wrote...

Agreed, even if he is the only gay guy for Shep in the game, the fact that he was married is a very good thing. Well, it is sad that his husband died, but still. I hope the character is otherwise compelling and likable.

Funny thing, they even mention that Steve and Robert lived in New York. I thought that was pretty topical. 

From everything I've read of them, Bioware's writers are a pretty liberal bunch. Not a cabal of culture warriors, per se, but definitely sympathetic to causes like feminism and lgbt rights. 

If I had to take a guess, giving the player an NPC who is not only indispensable, but gay and formerly married, is a bit of an 'up yours' to the people who complain so loudly about everything that isn't straight as an arrow. 

To be honest, here in New York, the passing went pretty smoothly. Even the conservatives here were like "Eh, whatever." Then again, we are BROKE so I think there are much larger problems. Which is in and of itself a good thing. Equality happens when nobody cares about it anymore - and I mean that in a very color-blind way not a "who cares" way.  

As for being indispensable...errrr...Cortez might meet an otherwise avoidable fate.

[metacognition]

@MACharlie1 oh hey, a fellow new yorker! and yeah, when gay marriage was legalized here it didn't seem to be an issue, just made for a very celebratory pride (which happened to be pretty soon after.) I also agree with equality happening when people don't care anymore. people get up in arms about **** that doesn't hurt anyone and ignore the **** that kills people.

remaining hopeful about the m/m LIs for ME3, Vega not being one of them would be pretty sore though, was really hoping he would be a stereotype breaker.

[ElitePinecone]

MACharlie1 wrote...
Cortez might meet an...

Oh, I know that.

It's just... he's in practically every mission, with dialogue. He's the ship's logistician and quartermaster. 

For the greater part of the game, he's *really* hard to avoid. You can't kill him like Zevran, he's your main source of buying items on the Normandy itself, and he pops up before and constantly during missions as the shuttle pilot. 

Ditto for Samantha, as the communications specialist I think I remember reading she's involved in a lot of the negotiations/diplomacy storylines. 

These aren't characters that players can ignore or kill off very easily. 

[Yuqi]

Is it true the V.S wont be s/s for ME3? I keep hearing that they're, and then I hear that they're not.

Modifié par Yuqi, 31 janvier 2012 - 10:31 .

[bigbrowncows]

You're making me very optimistic about Cortez, ElitePinecone. I think I may finally be over Kaidan. He clearly didn't want any of my shep's sugar before so he ain't getting it now. Bring on the Steve!

[Jazinto]

Killing off is still killing. It's up to the player. No matter how fair it is, that everybody can die, it won't stop homophobic players from killing Steve, because they're freaked out by him being gay. Just because they're forced to interact with him, doesn't mean they'll like him any better and disliking him makes killing him even more satisfying. What's the point of him dying? Why is the apparently only gay character killable? They shouldn't include this choice.

[Wittand25]

Luca Stern wrote...

Killing off is still killing. It's up to the player. No matter how fair it is, that everybody can die, it won't stop homophobic players from killing Steve, because they're freaked out by him being gay. Just because they're forced to interact with him, doesn't mean they'll like him any better and disliking him makes killing him even more satisfying. What's the point of him dying? Why is the apparently only gay character killable? They shouldn't include this choice.

Every straight LI (with the exeption of Liara) is killable in ME1 and ME2.

[Jazinto]

Wittand25 wrote...

Luca Stern wrote...

Killing off is still killing. It's up to the player. No matter how fair it is, that everybody can die, it won't stop homophobic players from killing Steve, because they're freaked out by him being gay. Just because they're forced to interact with him, doesn't mean they'll like him any better and disliking him makes killing him even more satisfying. What's the point of him dying? Why is the apparently only gay character killable? They shouldn't include this choice.

Every straight LI (with the exeption of Liara) is killable in ME1 and ME2.

Well every straight LI is a squad member in ME and ME2. Not to mention there was no m/m option included. There is no fairness in any of that either. Like I said. It doesn't matter, as most people won't romance him and for them he'll be just the gay guy, whom they can simply get rid off, if it pleases them.

[ElitePinecone]

Luca Stern wrote...

Killing off is still killing. It's up to the player. No matter how fair it is, that everybody can die, it won't stop homophobic players from killing Steve, because they're freaked out by him being gay. Just because they're forced to interact with him, doesn't mean they'll like him any better and disliking him makes killing him even more satisfying. What's the point of him dying? Why is the apparently only gay character killable? They shouldn't include this choice.

It's hard to explain in detail without spoiling anything. 

Basically: just about every character can die in ME3. This includes Sam and Steve. Bioware's narrative decisions are their perogative. 

But it's not a "choice" to kill them (one or two exceptions aside).

Most of the time, a character dies because the player didn't prepare enough, because the player made a stupid decision (similar to the Suicide Mission sending the wrong squadmate) or because the player's combination of choices led to a bad outcome out of their control. 

The circumstances of Steve's death are murky, it looks like it's a combination of mission choices and not prepraing properly. 

Point is: you'd have to work damn hard to deliberately kill a character. It's not presented as "selecting [x] is a bad decision", or even "[x] might die here". If they do die on people's playthroughs, it'd likely be by sheer dumb luck. 

(I don't think even Bioware would be so cruel as to make Cortez's death inevitable. I know that Sam's death can be avoided by preparing for her mission properly.)

Could people try and metagame in later playthroughs to kill off Steve? Sure. But it's not nearly as easy or obvious as Zevran. And giving gay or lesbian characters plot armour just because homophobic idiots might kill them seems like an extraordinary path to go down. 

For one thing, it means there can never be an emotional LI death. Steve or Sam's death would be pretty damn tragic for a Shepard who just found them. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 31 janvier 2012 - 01:22 .