25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Zkyire]

Luca Stern wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Luca Stern wrote...

Killing off is still killing. It's up to the player. No matter how fair it is, that everybody can die, it won't stop homophobic players from killing Steve, because they're freaked out by him being gay. Just because they're forced to interact with him, doesn't mean they'll like him any better and disliking him makes killing him even more satisfying. What's the point of him dying? Why is the apparently only gay character killable? They shouldn't include this choice.

Every straight LI (with the exeption of Liara) is killable in ME1 and ME2.

Well every straight LI is a squad member in ME and ME2. Not to mention there was no m/m option included. There is no fairness in any of that either. Like I said. It doesn't matter, as most people won't romance him and for them he'll be just the gay guy, whom they can simply get rid off, if it pleases them.

Between ME1 and ME2:

Kelly bisexual - Killable.

Jacob heterosexual - Killable.

Garrus heterosexual - Killable.

Ashley heterosexual - Killable.

Kaidan heterosexual - Killable.

Tali heterosexual - Killable.

Kasumi - Possibly bisexual, but she only seems to show interest in men so far - Killable.

Samara - Unknown if she's ever been with a non-Asari - Killable.

Joker unknown - Killable.

Liara - bisexual - Not killable.

"Oh no a gay character is killable.. just like all the straight characters.. obviously homophobes are going to kill him off hurr".

Seriously? This is an issue?

Modifié par Zkyire, 31 janvier 2012 - 01:39 .

[shepskisaac]

Yuqi wrote...

Is it true the V.S wont be s/s for ME3? I keep hearing that they're, and then I hear that they're not.

We simply don't know yet, nobody does (except for Bioware of course). There are reasons to think they are, and there are reasons to think they're not. We should know in 2 weeks.

[Zkyire]

Augoeides wrote...

Okay so you all probably noticed this eons back while I was still stuck in the primordial ooze unaware of the leak, but this Steve, has a dead husband you say? A man with a husband? a HUSBAND?

Am I to interpret this correctly to mean that in the future that is Mass Effect, a man can marry a man and it is okay and it's legal?

Excuse me while I jump for joy because we have a s/s character on board who had a relationship that was (I assume) meaningful and deep enough that he and his partner wanted to get married. That sounds to me like unequivocal support for the importance and sanctity of gay marriage, and a definite and poignant stab at inequality despite how we may feel/fear homosexuals are underrepresented in Mass Effect. I'm sincerely giddy at this.

Map of Same Sex Marriage Status

Same-sex relationships legal
Dark Blue:        Same-sex marriage
Medium Blue:        Other type of partnership (or unregistered cohabitation)
Light Blue:        Same-sex marriage recognized, but not performed
Grey:            Homosexuality legal but same-sex unions not recognized
   
Same-sex relationships illegal
Yellow:            Minimal penalty
Orange:            Large penalty
Light Red:        Life in prison
Dark Red:        Death penalty


It's already legal in a few places. And becoming legal in more and more. Only makes sense that in the future even more places will have it recognised.

Modifié par Zkyire, 31 janvier 2012 - 01:48 .

[Stardusk78]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Luca Stern wrote...

Killing off is still killing. It's up to the player. No matter how fair it is, that everybody can die, it won't stop homophobic players from killing Steve, because they're freaked out by him being gay. Just because they're forced to interact with him, doesn't mean they'll like him any better and disliking him makes killing him even more satisfying. What's the point of him dying? Why is the apparently only gay character killable? They shouldn't include this choice.

It's hard to explain in detail without spoiling anything. 

Basically: just about every character can die in ME3. This includes Sam and Steve. Bioware's narrative decisions are their perogative. 

But it's not a "choice" to kill them (one or two exceptions aside).

Most of the time, a character dies because the player didn't prepare enough, because the player made a stupid decision (similar to the Suicide Mission sending the wrong squadmate) or because the player's combination of choices led to a bad outcome out of their control. 

The circumstances of Steve's death are murky, it looks like it's a combination of mission choices and not prepraing properly. 

Point is: you'd have to work damn hard to deliberately kill a character. It's not presented as "selecting [x] is a bad decision", or even "[x] might die here". If they do die on people's playthroughs, it'd likely be by sheer dumb luck. 

(I don't think even Bioware would be so cruel as to make Cortez's death inevitable. I know that Sam's death can be avoided by preparing for her mission properly.)

Could people try and metagame in later playthroughs to kill off Steve? Sure. But it's not nearly as easy or obvious as Zevran. And giving gay or lesbian characters plot armour just because homophobic idiots might kill them seems like an extraordinary path to go down. 

For one thing, it means there can never be an emotional LI death. Steve or Sam's death would be pretty damn tragic for a Shepard who just found them. 

Who is Steve?

[Quething]

ElitePinecone wrote...
(Although, strangely, Mac seems to pepper his writing with 'Goodamnit' and 'Oh, God!', even in the ME3 script, if I'm reading it correctly)

Yeah. It's an annoying tic when your Shep is polytheistic and as non-Western as you can make a PC with the name "Shepard," but I don't really hold it too much against him since idioms are a completely lizard-brain thing and very hard to catch yourself doing for even the best writers.

Just going to chime in on the Steve issue; I've said it before but I'm with Finis, he's an afterthought no matter how well he's written (and man, the dead husband thing makes me worry about that too). If you think of the games as three separate games, sure, it's great he's there and has a major role, but who thinks of the games as three separate games? It's one story, at this point, and that changes things a lot. (On a non-romance note, for example, the Virmire choice is now a stupid, story-damaging decision, whereas when the full sum of the story was ME1, it was an awesome plot point.)

I mean, yeah, s/s VS in game 3 would also be too late, but at least the character is as core to the franchise as Shep, even if the romance itself is relatively truncated. And really, it's less an "afterthought" than a "revisitation." After all, they were thinking about making Ash and Kaidan options as early as pre-launch for ME1. Remember how they said they wanted to have interrupts in ME1 too, but they couldn't get it working because Reasons and had to delay implementation until the sequel? That feels different to me as a customer than a mechanic or, in this case, story, made wholly from scratch late in the process.

[Stardusk78]

Quething wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
(Although, strangely, Mac seems to pepper his writing with 'Goodamnit' and 'Oh, God!', even in the ME3 script, if I'm reading it correctly)

Yeah. It's an annoying tic when your Shep is polytheistic and as non-Western as you can make a PC with the name "Shepard," but I don't really hold it too much against him since idioms are a completely lizard-brain thing and very hard to catch yourself doing for even the best writers.

Just going to chime in on the Steve issue; I've said it before but I'm with Finis, he's an afterthought no matter how well he's written (and man, the dead husband thing makes me worry about that too). If you think of the games as three separate games, sure, it's great he's there and has a major role, but who thinks of the games as three separate games? It's one story, at this point, and that changes things a lot. (On a non-romance note, for example, the Virmire choice is now a stupid, story-damaging decision, whereas when the full sum of the story was ME1, it was an awesome plot point.)

I mean, yeah, s/s VS in game 3 would also be too late, but at least the character is as core to the franchise as Shep, even if the romance itself is relatively truncated. And really, it's less an "afterthought" than a "revisitation." After all, they were thinking about making Ash and Kaidan options as early as pre-launch for ME1. Remember how they said they wanted to have interrupts in ME1 too, but they couldn't get it working because Reasons and had to delay implementation until the sequel? That feels different to me as a customer than a mechanic or, in this case, story, made wholly from scratch late in the process.

So, who is Steve?

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Quething wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
(Although, strangely, Mac seems to pepper his writing with 'Goodamnit' and 'Oh, God!', even in the ME3 script, if I'm reading it correctly)

Yeah. It's an annoying tic when your Shep is polytheistic and as non-Western as you can make a PC with the name "Shepard," but I don't really hold it too much against him since idioms are a completely lizard-brain thing and very hard to catch yourself doing for even the best writers.

Just going to chime in on the Steve issue; I've said it before but I'm with Finis, he's an afterthought no matter how well he's written (and man, the dead husband thing makes me worry about that too). If you think of the games as three separate games, sure, it's great he's there and has a major role, but who thinks of the games as three separate games? It's one story, at this point, and that changes things a lot. (On a non-romance note, for example, the Virmire choice is now a stupid, story-damaging decision, whereas when the full sum of the story was ME1, it was an awesome plot point.)

I mean, yeah, s/s VS in game 3 would also be too late, but at least the character is as core to the franchise as Shep, even if the romance itself is relatively truncated. And really, it's less an "afterthought" than a "revisitation." After all, they were thinking about making Ash and Kaidan options as early as pre-launch for ME1. Remember how they said they wanted to have interrupts in ME1 too, but they couldn't get it working because Reasons and had to delay implementation until the sequel? That feels different to me as a customer than a mechanic or, in this case, story, made wholly from scratch late in the process.

I'm sure whatever I have to say has already been covered in the many pages of this thread. If there truly is only one m/m option and he isn't even a squadmember I'll be incredibly disappointed.

Anyway, who knows at this point.

[Zkyire]

IsaacShep wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

I was really pleased when I read the lines. It was something a lot of people had suggested in this thread (as a way to roleplay Shepard even if the LIs weren't necessarily there), and I think it's a nice touch that we haven't really ever seen in a Bioware game before. Oh, except possibly when femShep turns down Kaidan for Liara - although that's more Alenko connecting dots than Shepard saying it outright.

That scene was the only time Shep's orientation was discussed, and I love it because it pisses all over BW's "ohh Asari ain't females so it's ain't s/s haha!". Yes it is, if FemShep likes Asari then she's a lesbian, Kaidan basically says it and everyone knows it.

Bioware said that about Asari?



I thought that was just what some people in the fandom thought? o.O

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Quething wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
(Although, strangely, Mac seems to pepper his writing with 'Goodamnit' and 'Oh, God!', even in the ME3 script, if I'm reading it correctly)

Yeah. It's an annoying tic when your Shep is polytheistic and as non-Western as you can make a PC with the name "Shepard," but I don't really hold it too much against him since idioms are a completely lizard-brain thing and very hard to catch yourself doing for even the best writers.

Just going to chime in on the Steve issue; I've said it before but I'm with Finis, he's an afterthought no matter how well he's written (and man, the dead husband thing makes me worry about that too). If you think of the games as three separate games, sure, it's great he's there and has a major role, but who thinks of the games as three separate games? It's one story, at this point, and that changes things a lot. (On a non-romance note, for example, the Virmire choice is now a stupid, story-damaging decision, whereas when the full sum of the story was ME1, it was an awesome plot point.)

I mean, yeah, s/s VS in game 3 would also be too late, but at least the character is as core to the franchise as Shep, even if the romance itself is relatively truncated. And really, it's less an "afterthought" than a "revisitation." After all, they were thinking about making Ash and Kaidan options as early as pre-launch for ME1. Remember how they said they wanted to have interrupts in ME1 too, but they couldn't get it working because Reasons and had to delay implementation until the sequel? That feels different to me as a customer than a mechanic or, in this case, story, made wholly from scratch late in the process.

So, who is Steve?

The shuttle pilot and male love interest for male (and possibly female?) Shepard.

[Stardusk78]

OK, no one wants to tell me who this Steve is or Samantha?

[Tric]

Stardusk78 wrote...

So, who is Steve?

The, possibly, only man open for an homosexual relationship in ME3.

You can read more about him here: Fight For the Love Spoiler Discussion

More specifically, in this thread: Steve Cortez

Spoiler warning for plot and dialogue.

Samantha Traynor

Modifié par SomethingSome, 31 janvier 2012 - 02:20 .

[Stardusk78]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Quething wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
(Although, strangely, Mac seems to pepper his writing with 'Goodamnit' and 'Oh, God!', even in the ME3 script, if I'm reading it correctly)

Yeah. It's an annoying tic when your Shep is polytheistic and as non-Western as you can make a PC with the name "Shepard," but I don't really hold it too much against him since idioms are a completely lizard-brain thing and very hard to catch yourself doing for even the best writers.

Just going to chime in on the Steve issue; I've said it before but I'm with Finis, he's an afterthought no matter how well he's written (and man, the dead husband thing makes me worry about that too). If you think of the games as three separate games, sure, it's great he's there and has a major role, but who thinks of the games as three separate games? It's one story, at this point, and that changes things a lot. (On a non-romance note, for example, the Virmire choice is now a stupid, story-damaging decision, whereas when the full sum of the story was ME1, it was an awesome plot point.)

I mean, yeah, s/s VS in game 3 would also be too late, but at least the character is as core to the franchise as Shep, even if the romance itself is relatively truncated. And really, it's less an "afterthought" than a "revisitation." After all, they were thinking about making Ash and Kaidan options as early as pre-launch for ME1. Remember how they said they wanted to have interrupts in ME1 too, but they couldn't get it working because Reasons and had to delay implementation until the sequel? That feels different to me as a customer than a mechanic or, in this case, story, made wholly from scratch late in the process.

So, who is Steve?

The shuttle pilot and male love interest for male (and possibly female?) Shepard.

Ah, ok. What about Samantha?

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Zkyire wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

I was really pleased when I read the lines. It was something a lot of people had suggested in this thread (as a way to roleplay Shepard even if the LIs weren't necessarily there), and I think it's a nice touch that we haven't really ever seen in a Bioware game before. Oh, except possibly when femShep turns down Kaidan for Liara - although that's more Alenko connecting dots than Shepard saying it outright.

That scene was the only time Shep's orientation was discussed, and I love it because it pisses all over BW's "ohh Asari ain't females so it's ain't s/s haha!". Yes it is, if FemShep likes Asari then she's a lesbian, Kaidan basically says it and everyone knows it.

Bioware said that about Asari?



I thought that was just what some people in the fandom thought? o.O

Before ME2 was released I think basically Casey Hudson said that there were no gay relationships in Mass Effect because Liara/the Asari are not female and just appear to be so. Even though, without even getting into logic and actual lore, I recall on the old forums a dev specifically stating that yes, Liara is obviously a female love interest and thus a lesbian option for femshep.

[draken-heart]

 i wonder about Samantha as well, all we know about her is:

• she is as exclusive lesbian romance option.
• she is the Normandy's communications specialist that comes off the ship for negotiations with ppl.
• she loves to play chess.

and that is about it

Modifié par draken-heart, 31 janvier 2012 - 03:02 .

[shepskisaac]

If a freaking news reporter one-night-stand Diana Allers can have a unique face, Cortez better have too, that's all I'm saying

[SolidBeast]

Chun Hei wrote...

Well I have been wondering if I should bother to start reading the Mass Effect and Dragon Age novels and comics. Should I bother?

I've got both of the Dragon Age novels and they're not bad (obviously not even comparable to stuff like A Song Of Ice and Fire). The Calling provides some interesting insight into Darkspawn and, to my mind, conveys the feel of the Deep Roads much better than the game. I haven't read any of the ME novels, but I'm itching to get my hands on Deception, because I think it's so bad it's hilarious (kind of like the movie 2012). Anyway, I can recommend the DA novels, not as a "must-read" in general terms (a bit dragged out and Gaider has a few phrases he likes to repeat over and over), but a fan will get some enjoyment out of them.

bigbrowncows wrote...

You're making me very optimistic
about Cortez, ElitePinecone. I think I may finally be over Kaidan. He
clearly didn't want any of my shep's sugar before so he ain't getting it
now. Bring on the Steve!

Heh, you know, whenever I play, I have this feeling that he's actually gay, but he's all like "No...dialogue...can't...speak..."  He just has that vibe.

ElitePinecone wrote...
For one thing, it means there can never
be an emotional LI death. Steve or Sam's death would be pretty damn
tragic for a Shepard who just found them. 

I actually agree. I think I might kill him off in one of my playthroughs simply for the tragedy factor.

[ElitePinecone]

Quething wrote...
snip

I agree that a VS romance does provide more of a sense of continuity and longevity (*especially* for players who have imported a Shepard from scratch). 

And hey, Bioware might even use that rationale (and some of their fancy telemetry that I would think shows mSheps from ME with Kaidan alive and femSheps from ME with Ashley alive to be a tiny proportion of the total player base going into ME3) to justify having them be s/s options in the third game.  

We already know the VS are primarily being featured as new romance options for ME3 players, and opening this up to both genders of Shep with some lines about old love doesn't even seem that implausible. I'd welcome this immensely. 

That being said, I also think Steve and Sam are so enormously overloaded with content that attests to their non-straightness that I find it hard to believe there'll be any other s/s LIs. They were *made* for s/s, literally and figuratively (heh, even nominally). And as much as I understand people don't like them because they're not the VS, and that they consider Steve and Sam second-rate characters thrown as scraps to appease the slavering masses, I simply don't think that's a fair reflection of the quality of the arc.  

Whatever the motivation behind their creation, the romance comes across as anything but a gimmick. It's sincere, well-written, fleshed-out and on a par with any other romance or friendship path in the game. 

I'm sympathetic to people who might be upset if there's only one option, but Bioware can't work miracles, and they shouldn't be expected to. It's not a case of "accept what you're given" but more "appreciate the time and effort put into Steve and Sam that was created *SOLELY* for the type of people who post in this thread."

Casey said in an interview a few months ago that they added the s/s romances due to fan feedback. Without ascending into hubris, I'd wager this thread was no small part of that. If nothing else, getting s/s content of any sort in the game has been a success, and I think enjoying that should be our first priority. 

[LiaraShepard]

I have a question. Is there a picture of samantha or somebody who knows how she looks? I haven't found anything about this, but maybe I overlooked the picture.

[shepskisaac]

ElitePinecone wrote...

That being said, I also think Steve and Sam are so enormously overloaded with content that attests to their non-straightness that I find it hard to believe there'll be any other s/s LIs.

But there already ARE other s/s LIs. Liara is there, and available for new romance as well. And everyone at BioWare knows it's a lesbian romance, one of the devs said it himself, it ain't like they're oblivious to that. And there's also Kelly, who is possibly also open for new romance. And Diana may very well be bisexual. One way or another, Samantha is NOT the sole character available for lesbian romance.

[Blacklash93]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...
The shuttle pilot and male love interest for male (and possibly female?) Shepard.

Not looking likely for female Shep. There's nothing in the script that suggests it.

[ElitePinecone]

draken-heart wrote..

• she loves to play chess.

I'm genuinely looking forward to this conversation. 

[ElitePinecone]

IsaacShep wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

That being said, I also think Steve and Sam are so enormously overloaded with content that attests to their non-straightness that I find it hard to believe there'll be any other s/s LIs.

But there already ARE other s/s LIs. Liara is there, and available for new romance as well. And everyone at BioWare knows it's a lesbian romance, one of the devs said it himself, it ain't like they're oblivious to that. And there's also Kelly, who is possibly also open for new romance. And Diana may very well be bisexual. One way or another, Samantha is NOT the sole character available for lesbian romance.

Sorry, should've added 'exclusive'. 

But I get what you mean, and I'm more than a bit frustrated that there aren't more m/m options.

Though I certainly wouldn't argue for fewer f/f LIs just because of that. 

(I don't think Allers will be s/s, by the way.)

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...
The shuttle pilot and male love interest for male (and possibly female?) Shepard.

Not looking likely for female Shep. There's nothing in the script that suggests it.

I didn't want to spoil the entirety of what could very well be the only male/male romance in the trilogy so I only read a few snippets and got the impression that he is exclusively gay, but I wouldn't rule anything out from the leaked script. Mostly because I'm trying to be optimistic that there will be a m/m squadmate.

[ElitePinecone]

LiaraShepard wrote...

I have a question. Is there a picture of samantha or somebody who knows how she looks? I haven't found anything about this, but maybe I overlooked the picture.

(I keep seeing new replies when I post things, sorry for the likely triple post)

Not yet, although her voice actress is apparently this lady.

The actor is British but speaks fluent French and can do various US accents as well as Northern Irish. Amazeballs.

So... take your pick for Sam. Though I would wonder why they'd pick a UK actress (who speaks French, to boot) if they were going to make her do an American accent for the game.