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[Velissia Fynold]

RinjiRenee wrote...
All the LIs are like that.  They won't talk to you nearly as much if you are not eligible, Jacob and Miranda included. 

I might be wrong, cause I didn't played male shepard that long, but I'm sure the dialoge on Jacob and m/f shepard are not that different, beside that you actually can (with good luck and will and many wrong clicks, followed by loading till you find out the rare combination) get him to become a romance.

And Miranda is, while not flirting with femshep, pretty much the same on both also, beside the romancing part.

Kaidan on the other hand, doesn't talk as much (not romantic) stuff to a male shep as to a fem shep (if Im not mistaken).

[Velissia Fynold]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Than truthfully,  there should be less hetero romances also.  You can score with almost anyone in ME2...
..

Part of what I ment, only s/s romance would be nice too, but for that it would have to be a new, or at least not previously LI character.

Modifié par Velissia Fynold, 18 juin 2011 - 12:10 .

[Ottemis]

I think all aliens are viable to be made BI.
Why? Not like we look like their race anyways, it's not the physical attraction that does it nor necessarily part-compatibility. They go for you for who you are.

As for the humans, I don't much care. There should be two-way interests, then it's fair game from my POV. They should be able to get what I have, I'm not fussy to that extend.
It's based in the future in the end, look at how bi/gay social acceptance is evolving now.
With same-sex appreciation (whether romantic, purely aesthetic or anywhere in between) as it is, straight, bi or gay have gotten alot of stages in between people openly admit to as well. Bound to be easier the further into the future we get.

Modifié par Ottemis, 18 juin 2011 - 12:15 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Velissia Fynold wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Than truthfully,  there should be less hetero romances also.  You can score with almost anyone in ME2...
..

Part of what I ment, only s/s romance would be nice too, but for that it would have to be a new, or at least not LI character.

MMmm no,  I see no reason that every character of the opposite gender can have physical relationships with shepard while it has to be limited for same sex.  If one oreintation is being limited just because it's not "Realistic" the other should be as well.

I mean,  Garrus and Tali are risking killing Shepard/dying for teh sex... that's just plain dumb.

[Abispa]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Velissia Fynold wrote...


I would find it unfitting, to simply turn everyone BI, so everyone can have everyone. That just isn't how the worlds works, and I'm sure the ME world doesn't either.

Than truthfully,  there should be less hetero romances also.  You can score with almost anyone in ME2...
..

I agree. Most of the romances are cliche, simplistic, and would be laugh at if they were depicted similarly in a movie. They are just another way to accessorize our characters. It's not the end of the world if they're not available, but since they only exist as a fan service anyway, according to Chris Priestly, I don't see why Bioware shouldn't cater to as much of their fan base as possible.

And while I support a bisexual Shepard and love interests, I also support Bioware giving Shepard the option to be homophobic ("Stay away from me, Vega! You sick freak!") since s/he has been given the option of being a xenophobe, a murderer and even commit genocide.

[Ryzaki]

...I was sad I couldn't keep being a xenophobe in ME2. Why they take away my racist douche Shep? Why BioWare?

[PMC65]

I see all the back and forth about who should be & who shouldn't be romanceable ...

For me, I vote that the crew (VS, Miranda, Thane, etc) is opened up. Not because I want to have my male shep hook up with Garrus, to be honest I won't even do a m/m relationship. But I will also never know what a straight relationship is like with Garrus, Thane, Tali, Jacob or Jack. None of my Shepards found any of them attractive or vice versa.

Was the "straight" option there for my Maleshep to romance Jack? Yes. But since I didn't take that path it does not exist in that story and they simply became friends. Jack sees Shepard as some kind of surreal brother, even with his kindness. He bought her daisies once on the Citadel which made her smile and then beat him with them. He makes her laugh and somehow feel safe but she would NEVER tell him that. Instead she calls him a p*ssy and punches on him. Nothing more. Do I feel upset or robbed or character violated because someone else's Shep and Jack had casual or romantic sex? Not in the slightest. In fact, my Shep & Jack would like to see it for a good laugh. oh, and so would Joker, but he is pervy that way. Would others feel that Shepard would never buy Jack daisies? Ab-so-frackin'-lut-ly!

One of the biggest debates seems to be on that forever talked about gal Ashley Williams ... Can someone argue that Ash would never? Yes. Can someone argue that Ash would? Yes. Will either side ever agree? Nope. Because they see Ash in their own mass effect world.
 
Even I have two different Ash's and they disagree ... 

CON - Ash #2 (romanced male shep)
She would no more think about being with a woman than with a turian .. ok, she would be with a woman first. But she's never met a woman that she's found romantically attractive. True, she was overheard saying a woman could kiss her, but that was regarding Miranda Lawson. When she heard that Miranda had "seduced" Shepard she said, and I quote, "That b1tch can kis5 my ass if she thinks she's keeping skipper!" Later she was also overheard saying that she was going to put a boot up his ... er, well. I cannot wait for ME3 to see how this story plays out.
 

PRO - Ash #3 (Crush on female Shepard)
When she first met Shepard on Eden Prime, she knew who she was. She had seen the vids, admired her courage (war hero) and what she had overcome (earthborn). Every woman who served in the Alliance knew who Shepard was ... Her respect grew as she watched the hero focus each mission's success on the other squadmates' abilities and not her own. Ash hated 'glory hounds' and Shepard was far from that. Her attraction was not overnight but quietly grew and after hearing Kaiden confess his attraction towards Shepard, followed closely by the rumors that the asari was also attracted to the commander, it bothered her. As she watched those two try and get Shepard's attention she found herself getting angry and when Shepard would spend time with them ... well, it hurt. Not too long after Noveria, Ash saw Shepard speaking softly and very close to Liara ... it was in that moment that she couldn't deny what she was feeling. Through months of silent struggle, she planned on telling Shepard how she felt but the time never seemed right, okay she chickened out. Yes Ash was kick-ass and blunt, but there was something about this woman that made her stumble ... but she had finally promised herself that after this geth run she would lay her feelings on the table ... enter the collectors and Shepard dying.
 
*Ash # 2 & Ash # 3 do not impact each other ... after all, they serve with different Shepards, with different outlooks and different plumbing. Did Tali & Garrus become romanceable due to "fan service"? Don't know and really don't care. It never impacted my games so why would I begrudge someone else telling their stories? Hell, you want to pretend that you and TIM are having a side thing? Good on you! Sneaking around with a hanar? You devil! I didn't buy your game, I bought mine. 

What is the harm if the Talimancers get a great ending, or the Miranda lovers or the Kaiden lovers or (insert character here)? The only thing that I really hope is that both the friendship & romance paths are well thought out, well written and executed. My Shepard not only has romantic relationships but friendships that he/she would love to enjoy in the final game. 

*Ash # 1 was left on Virmire, so she was not included in this discussion for obvious reasons.

[Abispa]

Ryzaki wrote...

...I was sad I couldn't keep being a xenophobe in ME2. Why they take away my racist douche Shep? Why BioWare?

It's all EA's fault! They don't care about the fans!

[AngelicMachinery]

Abispa wrote...


I agree. Most of the romances are cliche, simplistic, and would be laugh at if they were depicted similarly in a movie. They are just another way to accessorize our characters. It's not the end of the world if they're not available, but since they only exist as a fan service anyway, according to Chris Priestly, I don't see why Bioware shouldn't cater to as much of their fan base as possible.

And while I support a bisexual Shepard and love interests, I also support Bioware giving Shepard the option to be homophobic ("Stay away from me, Vega! You sick freak!") since s/he has been given the option of being a xenophobe, a murderer and even commit genocide.

I won't lie,  I hate the idea of ******-agressive content being involved in the game... but alas choice is part of the game.  I must say though if it comes around to killing people because they're gay...  I will say its going way to far because lets be truthful you have no options to kill anyone else based on race/sex/ or what have you.

[Maugrim]

The less dialogue on unromanced companions  IS NOT a s/s romance issue and really needs to be divorced from this discussion.  That issues exists whether or not characters/Shepard is gay, straight, bi, Companionsexual etc. Holding it up as a reason not to have certain romances and  s/s romances in particular is extremely disingenuous and  misleading.

[Velissia Fynold]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Velissia Fynold wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Than truthfully,  there should be less hetero romances also.  You can score with almost anyone in ME2...
..

Part of what I ment, only s/s romance would be nice too, but for that it would have to be a new, or at least not LI character.

MMmm no,  I see no reason that every character of the opposite gender can have physical relationships with shepard while it has to be limited for same sex.  If one oreintation is being limited just because it's not "Realistic" the other should be as well.

I mean,  Garrus and Tali are risking killing Shepard/dying for teh sex... that's just plain dumb.

Ok, maybe I understand you wrong or you me.

I ment that it would be nice to see for example a male character not interested in fem shepard, and a female not interested in male shepard, but in the same gender, so that there is in fact a limitation, having some LI's only being interested in their genders shepard, as well as some LIs only being interested in the oposite and some in both.

[AngelicMachinery]

Velissia Fynold wrote...

I ment that it would be nice to see for example a male character not interested in fem shepard, and a female not interested in male shepard, but in the same gender, so that there is in fact a limitation, having some LI's only being interested in their genders shepard, as well as some LIs only being interested in the oposite and some in both.

Yea, but this WON'T  happen...  not yet.  It is finacially a bad idea and well...  games are for the moneys.  So this argument typically rings hollow for me.

[Abispa]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Abispa wrote...


I agree. Most of the romances are cliche, simplistic, and would be laugh at if they were depicted similarly in a movie. They are just another way to accessorize our characters. It's not the end of the world if they're not available, but since they only exist as a fan service anyway, according to Chris Priestly, I don't see why Bioware shouldn't cater to as much of their fan base as possible.

And while I support a bisexual Shepard and love interests, I also support Bioware giving Shepard the option to be homophobic ("Stay away from me, Vega! You sick freak!") since s/he has been given the option of being a xenophobe, a murderer and even commit genocide.

I won't lie,  I hate the idea of ******-agressive content being involved in the game... but alas choice is part of the game.  I must say though if it comes around to killing people because they're gay...  I will say its going way to far because lets be truthful you have no options to kill anyone else based on race/sex/ or what have you.

I never said Shepard should be able to kill gays, only "be a homophobe." As in tell a gay character to stay away in a rude manner not unlike a gay person would get from a homophobic straight person s/he may be trying to hit on. It doesn't have to be vulgar, just abrupt and rude like Shepard was to the two Asari tourists on the Citadel if you pick the renegade dialog option.

[Velissia Fynold]

I know that it wont happen most likely, it's just my opinion and I had the feeling we missunderstood each other.

And as it is a single player game, it most likely doesn't matter at all if all characters are BI as you controll if and who gets with your fem or male shep anyway, no matter what someone else does in his game (I think someone said that already earlier too).

But as this is an open discussion I thought I might throw in my personal opinion too, even if it will not turn out that way.

[AngelicMachinery]

Abispa wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Abispa wrote...


I agree. Most of the romances are cliche, simplistic, and would be laugh at if they were depicted similarly in a movie. They are just another way to accessorize our characters. It's not the end of the world if they're not available, but since they only exist as a fan service anyway, according to Chris Priestly, I don't see why Bioware shouldn't cater to as much of their fan base as possible.

And while I support a bisexual Shepard and love interests, I also support Bioware giving Shepard the option to be homophobic ("Stay away from me, Vega! You sick freak!") since s/he has been given the option of being a xenophobe, a murderer and even commit genocide.

I won't lie,  I hate the idea of ******-agressive content being involved in the game... but alas choice is part of the game.  I must say though if it comes around to killing people because they're gay...  I will say its going way to far because lets be truthful you have no options to kill anyone else based on race/sex/ or what have you.

I never said Shepard should be able to kill gays, only "be a homophobe." As in tell a gay character to stay away in a rude manner not unlike a gay person would get from a homophobic straight person s/he may be trying to hit on. It doesn't have to be vulgar, just abrupt and rude like Shepard was to the two Asari tourists on the Citadel if you pick the renegade dialog option.

People want to put people out the airlock for every concievable reason.  My innitial conclussion when it comes to mass effect fans seems to be murder...

[Rinji the Bearded]

Velissia Fynold wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
All the LIs are like that.  They won't talk to you nearly as much if you are not eligible, Jacob and Miranda included. 

I might be wrong, cause I didn't played male shepard that long, but I'm sure the dialoge on Jacob and m/f shepard are not that different, beside that you actually can (with good luck and will and many wrong clicks, followed by loading till you find out the rare combination) get him to become a romance.

And Miranda is, while not flirting with femshep, pretty much the same on both also, beside the romancing part.

Kaidan on the other hand, doesn't talk as much (not romantic) stuff to a male shep as to a fem shep (if Im not mistaken).

Jacob has an entire section of dialogue talking about Femshep's feelings about the mission, allowing femshep an additional layer of depth that I didn't get with my manshep until LotSB.

[Abispa]

Velissia Fynold wrote...

I ment that it would be nice to see for example a male character not interested in fem shepard, and a female not interested in male shepard, but in the same gender, so that there is in fact a limitation, having some LI's only being interested in their genders shepard, as well as some LIs only being interested in the oposite and some in both.

Since the invasion is on full scale in ME3 it would be inappropriate for it to happen now, but I would have loved for the ME series to have had an Aveline type situation with Shepard, just to show that not EVERYBODY has the hots for him/her.

[Abispa]

Hmm. I just figured out there is one character that Bioware could do an Aveline style situation with: Joker. You know, give Shepard all the heart icon dialog options to use on him, but the signals get crossed, things go wrong, and eventually you find out he's having an affair with Liara, the VS, or EDI.

[Clonedzero]

Ottemis wrote...

I think all aliens are viable to be made BI.
Why? Not like we look like their race anyways, it's not the physical attraction that does it nor necessarily part-compatibility. They go for you for who you are.

As for the humans, I don't much care. There should be two-way interests, then it's fair game from my POV. They should be able to get what I have, I'm not fussy to that extend.
It's based in the future in the end, look at how bi/gay social acceptance is evolving now.
With same-sex appreciation (whether romantic, purely aesthetic or anywhere in between) as it is, straight, bi or gay have gotten alot of stages in between people openly admit to as well. Bound to be easier the further into the future we get.

thats the worst reason ive heard. the alien human attraction makes zero sense already, now instead of just trying to get me to believe aliens and humans can be attracted to each other romantically even when they're extremely different in many significant ways but now i gotta believe they're going to break the standard gender paradigms as well? its too ridiculous to be believable.

saying "well they're aliens, might as well go another step" is ridiculous. i will fully stop taking bioware seriously as writers if they do that. femshep and garrus was a big enough reason to lose respect for them, but maleshep and garrus would be so stupid and horrible it could ruin the game for alot of people.

[ilovemesometurian]

Oohhh I want Kasumi for both genders =)

And heck I'd go gay for Garrus. Why the frick not??!?!!

[Abispa]

Clonedzero wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

I think all aliens are viable to be made BI.
Why? Not like we look like their race anyways, it's not the physical attraction that does it nor necessarily part-compatibility. They go for you for who you are.

As for the humans, I don't much care. There should be two-way interests, then it's fair game from my POV. They should be able to get what I have, I'm not fussy to that extend.
It's based in the future in the end, look at how bi/gay social acceptance is evolving now.
With same-sex appreciation (whether romantic, purely aesthetic or anywhere in between) as it is, straight, bi or gay have gotten alot of stages in between people openly admit to as well. Bound to be easier the further into the future we get.

thats the worst reason ive heard. the alien human attraction makes zero sense already, now instead of just trying to get me to believe aliens and humans can be attracted to each other romantically even when they're extremely different in many significant ways but now i gotta believe they're going to break the standard gender paradigms as well? its too ridiculous to be believable.

Even if it is an option, which still hasn't been established yet, there's no need for any of YOUR male Shepards to spend "quality time" with Garrus. If they impliment some kind of ninja-gay-romance Garrus into ME3, I'll be complaining right along with you.

I also think that it's wrong to Shepard to have to romance a character in order to unlock a lot of quality conversations with squad-mates even if they aren't romantic in nature. So while I support the bi-option for players who want to take advantage of it, I also think there should be more non-romantic relationship options for players who want cool bro-mances and/or want to skip romances entirely.

saying "well they're aliens, might as well go another step" is ridiculous. i will fully stop taking bioware seriously as writers if they do that. femshep and garrus was a big enough reason to lose respect for them, but maleshep and garrus would be so stupid and horrible it could ruin the game for alot of people.

If Bioware implements some kind of ninja-gay-romance with Garrus in ME3, I'll be complaining right along with you, but I see nothing wrong for the option to exist for the players who want it. I also want Bioware to be careful not to cheat players out of character interaction if they want to just be friends, bro-mancers and/or skip romances entirely.

Modifié par Abispa, 18 juin 2011 - 01:31 .

[Ryzaki]

Abispa wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...I was sad I couldn't keep being a xenophobe in ME2. Why they take away my racist douche Shep? Why BioWare?

It's all EA's fault! They don't care about the fans!

Yes I'm gonna blame EA. 

DAMN YOU EA! *shakes fist* 

And for the dense. 

The above is a joke. 

[Abispa]

Nyoka wrote...

Abispa wrote...

And while I support a bisexual Shepard and love interests, I also support Bioware giving Shepard the option to be homophobic ("Stay away from me, Vega! You sick freak!") since s/he has been given the option of being a xenophobe, a murderer and even commit genocide.

Being xenophobe hurts aliens and she genocided aliens as well, which don't really exist, so at the end of the day it's harmless. As for the killing, it was people in general, not a specific collective. To have a valid analogy, you need to find an example of Shepard being hateful against a specific group of people that exists in real life.

The renegade Shepard can tell Jack to blow a human male's head off during her loyalty mission. He was deranged and no threat to anyone at that point, and Shepard his/herself even said that there was no way he could ever restart the biotic program. So Shepard can encourage the murder of a human being for reasons of revenge, bloodlust and brutal initiation into Shepard's clique. A situation sadly all too common in today's world.

Yes, it wasn't a specific group, but out-right murder is a crime no matter the motivation. If someone hates my family because they're Hispanic, I don't give a damn. But if my mother is murdered, I am not going to feel a sense of relief if the police tell me they're possitive that race had nothing to do with it.

Modifié par Abispa, 18 juin 2011 - 01:45 .

[Abispa]

Ryzaki wrote...

The above is a joke. 

Shame on you. These forums are to be deadly serious.