25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

Quething wrote...
This ain't Oppression Olympics, and seething amongst ourselves about the respective marginalizaitons of Hawt Girl On Girl vs Invisible Gays benefits no one

Well said.

[AngelicMachinery]

D.Kain wrote...

 I just want to say that it makes me all warm inside reading that the threads name is "same sex romance", rather than "same gender romance".  

I’m curious why you felt the desire to post this?  Admittedly there is a difference between gender and sex,  but,  in a main stream game they are bound to go hand in hand.  So,  why exactly does it make you feel “Warm and fuzzy” when it is a discussion of biological sexes and not mental/emotional/spiritual/whathaveyou gender.

[Collider]

Okay, the *one* line mentioning Tali that could be construed as a new romance is

It's not one line.

-But I guess you're not alone anymore. You've got Ash.
-But I guess you're not alone anymore. You've got Liara.
-So if you're ever lonely... just let me know.
-Unless you'd rather be alone. We've got the war... several, in fact. And if you're not interested...
-It wasn't so bad when it happened. I had you. But now you have Ashley.
-It wasn't so bad when it happened. I had you. But now you have Liara.

Bolded looks like Tali suggesting something with single Shepard.

Ignoring the retcon sexuality debate, Tali would probably be a good addition to F/F Shepard's choices.
But as you've mentioned, there's nothing in the files to suggest that she's F/F.
But new romance? Yes, unless the bolded lines is unrequited love or something.

[SirGladiator]

Tali should definitely be an option for FemShep, as she should have been the last go round, I agree completely.

[ElitePinecone]

Collider wrote...

Okay, the *one* line mentioning Tali that could be construed as a new romance is

It's not one line.

-But I guess you're not alone anymore. You've got Ash.
-But I guess you're not alone anymore. You've got Liara.
-So if you're ever lonely... just let me know.
-Unless you'd rather be alone. We've got the war... several, in fact. And if you're not interested...
-It wasn't so bad when it happened. I had you. But now you have Ashley.
-It wasn't so bad when it happened. I had you. But now you have Liara.

Bolded looks like Tali suggesting something with single Shepard.

Ignoring the retcon sexuality debate, Tali would probably be a good addition to F/F Shepard's choices.
But as you've mentioned, there's nothing in the files to suggest that she's F/F.
But new romance? Yes, unless the bolded lines is unrequited love or something.

The line before that was about allies, wasn't it? 

I hadn't seen that before, but looking at it now I'm thinking more along the lines of a friendship path. Someone to talk to when the war gets too difficult. 

I'm probably wrong, though. It's really hard to tell with this dialogue. 

[Collider]

The line before that was about allies, wasn't it?

Yes.

I hadn't seen that before, but looking at it now I'm thinking more along the lines of a friendship path. Someone to talk to when the war gets too difficult.

Maybe, but use of "lonely" "alone" and "if you're not interested" would be a bit odd, if so. It's not as if Shepard doesn't have a good deal of potential friends besides Tali, either.

Also the fact that only male Shepard's love interests are mentioned there. If it was a friendship path, why aren't female Shepard's love interests mentioned too? Her having Kaidan for example would mean that she isn't "alone."

The only other option I see here besides new romance is male Shepard having romanced Tali before and she's talking about getting back together.

Modifié par Collider, 01 février 2012 - 09:52 .

[Collider]

Also, as far as I'm aware, people were only assuming Garrus and Tali wouldn't be new options, rather than having anything definite.

[Cathey]

Blacklash93 wrote...

So Diana is probably bi, huh?

I pray to God that Steve and Samantha will still be exclusive. Not for exclusivity's sake, I just really want full-on gay characters.

I hope so too.

It could mean good things for the future of BioWare games. With ME3 they are proving you can make a kickass game and still have gay characters.

So i'm hoping that having exclusive options for gay and straight romances along with a couple of bi ones is something they carry on with through the rest of their games.

[Jazinto]

Collider wrote...

-But I guess you're not alone anymore. You've got Ash.
-But I guess you're not alone anymore. You've got Liara.
-So if you're ever lonely... just let me know.
-Unless you'd rather be alone. We've got the war... several, in fact. And if you're not interested...
-It wasn't so bad when it happened. I had you. But now you have Ashley.
-It wasn't so bad when it happened. I had you. But now you have Liara.

Steve, Miranda, Kelly and Diana aren't mentioned either? That's sort of good sign. There could be others then...

Anyway, why wouldn't they make Garrus and Tali newly romanceable? If the romances are there anyway, why exclude new players from it? For what reason?

Modifié par Luca Stern, 01 février 2012 - 10:01 .

[Collider]

Tali mentions male Shepard being with Steve.

But I guess you're not alone anymore. You've got Cortez.
It wasn't so bad when it happened. I had you. But now you have Cortez.

Was just in another part of the file.

Modifié par Collider, 01 février 2012 - 10:01 .

[Jazinto]

Collider wrote...

Tali mentions male Shepard being with Steve.

But I guess you're not alone anymore. You've got Cortez.
It wasn't so bad when it happened. I had you. But now you have Cortez.

Was just in another part of the file.

S*** there goes hope... I wish I still had this "Love Goes Down" track, but the singer turned out be homophobic I need a couple of sad songs now

[Jazinto]

But seriously, how much do we depend on those scripts? It's like the only thing to go on, beyond taking a wild guess. I'd argue for more common sense, but it's sort of fun...

[ElitePinecone]

Luca Stern wrote...

But seriously, how much do we depend on those scripts? It's like the only thing to go on, beyond taking a wild guess. I'd argue for more common sense, but it's sort of fun...

Well, if we hadn't got these scripts months ago, we still would have no idea about Steve, Sam or the slightest possibility of a VS/Vega/ME2 characters s/s romance. 

Bioware have been amazingly circumspect about revealing any information. We've seen Steve for a grand total of about four seconds, and haven't seen or heard of Sam *at all*. 

There's a chance with the new beta that we'll get some better (or at least more complete) information, but given how frustrating the leak was for Bioware last time I'm sure they have protections in place. 

I wouldn't bet on any s/s romance information before release. Given that this thread has known for months, Bioware might even think there's no point telling us about the new characters. 

[bas_kon]

katerinafm wrote...
My suspicions may be ridiculous or just me being paranoid, but I can't  help but notice that certain characters that 'draw' players' attention (Diana and her 'pretty' face and outfit, despite her unimportant role in the game) get the spotlight, while other characters that interest us (Steve, Kaidan and Sam) are so absent in all footage that it's like it's been done on purpose. I wouldn't be surprised (however ridiculous my thought is, I never said it wasn't) if they hid these characters as much as possible because of their current LI status in the game (Steve is gay=pretend he doesn't exist=avoid fan rage until after the game is released and everyone has bought the game- including close minded fans that would go 'I won't buy it if so and so are s/s). Chances of Kaidan being bi are getting higher from where I'm standing.

Don't attack me for my silly thoughts, you asked XD

lol I kinda thought the same as well. Just wanted to be sure I wasn't the only one. Maybe it's just us wanting bi Kaidan so badly though

SolidBeast wrote...
Yeah, but since BioWare has been on the whole "everyone loves hot lesbian action" train, why wouldn't they show Sam? Also, why not show Kaidan? He's been there since the 1st game and he was straight in it, it's not like anyone would know he's bi from the footage. I do agree about Cortez, though. Sadly.

EDIT: Another s/s female LI?! Kaidan better be bi.

Yeah, but since now lesbian in mass effect 3 is considered homosexuality and they announced it as the same thing as m/m, I don't think they are gonna use the "lebian's hawt" thing, least in the videos. I realiced he was better than any ME2 "real" romance. Thus, that and the comment from the dev in the spoiler group, kinda made me a little more hopeful. But as I said, maybe it's me wanting kaidan to be bi.

[Vapaa]

Luca Stern wrote...

But seriously, how much do we depend on those scripts? It's like the only thing to go on, beyond taking a wild guess. I'd argue for more common sense, but it's sort of fun...

Oh no don't bring common sense on the table, because common sense is not the same for everyone, especially between fans and Bioware

[ElitePinecone]

bas_kon wrote...
snip

Remember also that Bioware don't necessarily have control over marketing. Or at least, the ordinary devs (save perhaps for Casey) don't play a role in deciding advertising and producing videos. 

Kaidan, for example, is an almost universally ignored character in the wider fanbase. Yes, BSN has a large community of people who support him - but Bioware's own data doesn't lie. The vast majority of players saved Ashley, and new games in ME2 started with Ashley as a default. Ten thousand people might support him really strongly here, but a million more only know and appreciate Ashley. As cynical as it sounds, hawt Ashley is going to work better as a marketing tool every time. 

Steve hasn't even been hinted at yet, let alone announced. We *may* get some information alongside the demo, because Steve will be in there at the start of the Sur'Kesh mission. 

[katerinafm]

bas_kon wrote...

katerinafm wrote...
My suspicions may be ridiculous or just me being paranoid, but I can't  help but notice that certain characters that 'draw' players' attention (Diana and her 'pretty' face and outfit, despite her unimportant role in the game) get the spotlight, while other characters that interest us (Steve, Kaidan and Sam) are so absent in all footage that it's like it's been done on purpose. I wouldn't be surprised (however ridiculous my thought is, I never said it wasn't) if they hid these characters as much as possible because of their current LI status in the game (Steve is gay=pretend he doesn't exist=avoid fan rage until after the game is released and everyone has bought the game- including close minded fans that would go 'I won't buy it if so and so are s/s). Chances of Kaidan being bi are getting higher from where I'm standing.

Don't attack me for my silly thoughts, you asked XD

lol I kinda thought the same as well. Just wanted to be sure I wasn't the only one. Maybe it's just us wanting bi Kaidan so badly though

SolidBeast wrote...
Yeah, but since BioWare has been on the whole "everyone loves hot lesbian action" train, why wouldn't they show Sam? Also, why not show Kaidan? He's been there since the 1st game and he was straight in it, it's not like anyone would know he's bi from the footage. I do agree about Cortez, though. Sadly.

EDIT: Another s/s female LI?! Kaidan better be bi.

Yeah, but since now lesbian in mass effect 3 is considered homosexuality and they announced it as the same thing as m/m, I don't think they are gonna use the "lebian's hawt" thing, least in the videos. I realiced he was better than any ME2 "real" romance. Thus, that and the comment from the dev in the spoiler group, kinda made me a little more hopeful. But as I said, maybe it's me wanting kaidan to be bi.

Ha, I knew I wasn't the only paranoid one! >.>

They are going very 'by the book'. They are convinced/certain fans are convinced, that it's not gay if it's asari, and so it's not considered gasp worthy unless it's an actual female human LI. That's why they might not show femShep's s/s LIs as well.

[ElitePinecone]

katerinafm wrote...
That's why they might not show femShep's s/s LIs as well. 

I hope they do a feature on some of the Normandy crew and we get some idea of Steve and Sam in there. 

(Also Adams, XO Greg whathisname, Michele, Chakwas, etc)

CHAKWAS!

[Yuqi]

ElitePinecone wrote...

katerinafm wrote...
That's why they might not show femShep's s/s LIs as well. 

I hope they do a feature on some of the Normandy crew and we get some idea of Steve and Sam in there. 

(Also Adams, XO Greg whathisname, Michele, Chakwas, etc)

CHAKWAS!

Something that is acceptable in one country/culture mightn't be  in the other. It's a pain in the ****, but marketing can be like juggaling broken glass. In one direction the glass looks smooth and shiny, but in the other direction it looks jagged,rough,sharp and unpleasent.. So you've got to center your objective  so that it looks acceptable on all sides.

Societies views are changing, but it's a slow process.

[SolidBeast]

bas_kon wrote...
I realiced he was better than any ME2 "real" romance. Thus, that and the comment from the dev in the spoiler group, kinda made me a little more hopeful. But as I said, maybe it's me wanting kaidan to be bi.

Wait... which comment was that?

edit: nvm, saw it. I wonder why the confirmation of multiple s/s would be such a huge spoiler. Still, I'm glad they at least lurk here.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 01 février 2012 - 02:48 .

[Jazinto]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Kaidan, for example, is an almost universally ignored character in the wider fanbase. Yes, BSN has a large community of people who support him - but Bioware's own data doesn't lie. The vast majority of players saved Ashley, and new games in ME2 started with Ashley as a default.

I've never played as FemShep, but as far as I know, default FemShep gets Kaiden in ME2 and default ManShep gets Ashley.

[ElitePinecone]

Luca Stern wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

Kaidan, for example, is an almost universally ignored character in the wider fanbase. Yes, BSN has a large community of people who support him - but Bioware's own data doesn't lie. The vast majority of players saved Ashley, and new games in ME2 started with Ashley as a default.

I've never played as FemShep, but as far as I know, default FemShep gets Kaiden in ME2 and default ManShep gets Ashley.

That's correct. However, femShep is also a minority of  the playerbase - something like 18% of players played as femShep in ME2, we aren't sure whether that's 18% of all players or 18% of individual playthroughs. As popular as she is here, there are untold hundreds of thousands of people who have played through Mass Effect and barely registered that there was a female Shepard. 

FemShep is not the marketing focus. The marketing team, in their eternal wisdom (!), decide to focus the trailers, screenshots and 'big' events on combat and guns and maleShep, not so much characters and story.  Hence the omniblades everywhere, Ashley being referenced without a hint of Kaidan and the neverending screenshots and talk of default Vanderloo maleShep as if he's the only one. 

One of the Community Team - either Woo or Priestly, I forget now - described the marketing as aimed at new players, not the existing ones. We already know the characters and story, we're already ferociously devouring the previews and information. *Especially* on BSN, where a few ten thousand people care about the IP enough to regularly post on the forums. The other, oh, 1.99 million people who bought Mass Effect 2 might need to be re-reminded that it's being released, and that (from Bioware's perspective) it's teh awesome - let alone the other millions who have never played a Mass Effect game, but might play ME3 if they like the marketing. 

We don't need to be convinced to show interest, then. Other people do, and that's who the marketing is aimed at. New customers is never a bad thing for a business. 

It's even more specific for the s/s LIs. This thread and all the other places where fans of s/s content gather (tumblr, say) are already buzzing with discussion. We know most of the LIs. We have access to a fair bit of information. We hardly need a reminder that it's in the game, and producing marketing for us would seem a bit pointless. 

I guess Bioware figures anybody who had seen the announcements about s/s in ME3 - and it was splashed across just about every gaming media site - would eventually end up here, or somewhere like here, and get the information anyway. It's not something they need to worry about in terms of generating buzz - even *if* generating buzz about s/s romances was a smart thing, and it's really not - marketing-wise. 

[bas_kon]

katerinafm wrote...
Ha, I knew I wasn't the only paranoid one! >.>

They
are going very 'by the book'. They are convinced/certain fans are
convinced, that it's not gay if it's asari, and so it's not considered
gasp worthy unless it's an actual female human LI. That's why they might
not show femShep's s/s LIs as well.

Lol, I think everyone on the BSN is kinda paranoid in their own way lately, that's because of the demo and the game launching day approaching, imo.

ElitePinecone wrote...

I hope they do a feature on some of the Normandy crew and we get some idea of Steve and Sam in there. 

(Also Adams, XO Greg whathisname, Michele, Chakwas, etc)

CHAKWAS!

I hope so too, after reading some spoilers, I'm eager to see what Steve looks like and hear his voice.
Would you mind telling me who Adams, XO Greg and Michele are, though? I can't recall them right now.

SolidBeast wrote..
Wait... which comment was that?

edit:
nvm, saw it. I wonder why the confirmation of multiple s/s would be
such a huge spoiler. Still, I'm glad they at least lurk here.

I wonder that as well, since compared to the leak it's nothing. Then again, "Retcon team" and "Char Integrity team" are annoying enough to make them think twice before confirming anything m/m related.
They might be preparing something for the 14th, though. But I don't think it'll be s/s related.

Modifié par bas_kon, 01 février 2012 - 03:33 .

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Quething wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Too bad the lesbian isn't a squadmate AND Latina...

Well, if we get Ash, who is Word of God Hispanic...

I do think it's a bit... idk, divisive? Very much doing the dudebros' work for them to go on about how the f/f crowd have aaaaaall these choices, apparently, and the m/m guys have none. f/f has, to date, one and a half. It's true that that's one and a half more than m/m gets but we are not exactly exploding the choice bank here. The incessant near-flirts and surprise Consort!Sex that we get as a side-effect of the fact that femShep's not actually canon and the game is written for dudebroShep do not constitute "choice" or a voluntary expression of/meaningful exploration of our queer femSheps' queerness any more than dude-seeking dudeShep's persistent celibacy constitutes a voluntary or meaningful acting out of his sexuality. So tossing slightly bitter/jealous venom at the f/f fans is inaccurate and misplaced at best.

It's also just plain counterproductive. We all want choice for everyone. I want dudeShep to have ALL THE DUDES. Really, I do! The fairest, most efficient, and most player-positive gamestate is the All Bi one, and if mShep has no one but Steve to romance after all this, no choice in a game where straight Sheps have a suite of five or six, I will be furious. Conversely, if mShep suddenly has all the boys on tap, I will be happy for him. Even if I still can't have Ash or Miranda. This ain't Oppression Olympics, and seething amongst ourselves about the respective marginalizaitons of Hawt Girl On Girl vs Invisible Gays benefits no one but the dudebros.

Don't Samara and Morinth also have half-mances available to femshep?

[Sporothrix]

ElitePinecone wrote...

femShep is also a minority of  the playerbase - something like 18% of players played as femShep in ME2, we aren't sure whether that's 18% of all players or 18% of individual playthroughs. As popular as she is here, there are untold hundreds of thousands of people who have played through Mass Effect and barely registered that there was a female Shepard. 

As people keep mentioning that, it is worth to notice that also a minority has finished that game. 

Such marketing is vicious circle, because the reason why there is minority of players who played femShep could also be a fact that most people don't know that they could play as female in this game. Most people who buy games don't read reviews, and even then, as it comes to ME it is rarely written about it and considering the ads it seems like generic boring tough guy is the protagonist - and add to that ladies on high heels, big cleavages and constant action - no shown dialogues.

Modifié par misoretu9, 01 février 2012 - 07:19 .