25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

SolidBeast wrote...

katerinafm wrote...

She's announcing it everywhere because her role is really small in the game and it's really not a spoiler when it comes to her character (what other part does she play in the game other than take an interview and have a one-night stand with Shep?). Maybe they are even telling her to keep talking about it on purpose so everyone can focus on that and get excited about the game more (for example I told my friend that you can have sex with her and his excitement for the game doubled instantly )

I don't want it to look like I'm arguing with you on purpose every time, but to the bolded part - we don't know. She might have a bigger role. And the same could be said for Steve - what other part does he play other than driving the shuttle and selling us gear?

\\

They do have larger roles.

Steve, Sam and Diana all have specific questlines (Steve's might be off the ship, I thnk).

Allers does more than one interview, she stays on the Normandy and files a report about Shepard's efforts after several missions. Her quest involves tricking Cerberus with false reporting - but it then puts her in danger of retaliation if she were to ever leave the ship. 

Sam's is to do with the engines (and possibly EDI?), if I remember correctly, and Steve's is flying the shuttle (I think that's the part where he can die if you don't do something quick enough, or tell him to abort the mission).

Sure, most of them look a little like fluff - they aren't going to affect plot quests like, say, Bastila or Anders - but it's significant extra content. 

Also, Allers doesn't "count" as an LI when Shepard can tell people who s/he's with, so I wouldn't put her on the same pedestal as Vega, Liara, Steve, Sam, etc - at least in that area. 

[bleetman]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Also, Allers doesn't "count" as an LI when Shepard can tell people who s/he's with, so I wouldn't put her on the same pedestal as Vega, Liara, Steve, Sam, etc - at least in that area. 

I've got to ask: does Shepard tell her before or after the two of them sex each other up? I desperately want an incredibly awkward after scene where Shepard tells her s/he's got a lot of stuff going on right now, what with the reapers and working things out with <existing romance interest here>, but s/he'll totally call her.

Also, your signature is amazing.

[Blacklash93]

It kind of seems like O/S players have a distinct lack of options in ME3 based off the script, not counting Diana.

Ashley
Kaidan
Liara
Vega

If you take Sam and Steve as exclusivley S/S options, aren't O/S players losing out on a significant amount of the romance content? Steve and Sam make up 1/3 of the known romances.

Before you go "Straight players had enough already" keep in mind that the devs may not feel the same way and are also catering to new players. What if they decided to make Steve and Sam bi to give more options to O/S players since there doesn't seem to be as many as ME2?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 03 février 2012 - 03:44 .

[Abispa]

New players also have the option (I believe) of picking a ME2 LI during the create-a-save feature. Similar to the way a new player could choose from the original three at the start of ME2.

Bioware is free to do whatever they want for LIs, even though I may not be happy with their decisions. Six full fledged romances should be plenty for a game. The only thing I see complicating matters is that only ONE VS is alive at a time.

It wouldn't surprise me if "new" romances can be started with Tali and Garrus, though I am skeptical about them being s/s options (especially Garrus). Of course the script really doesn't strengthen my suspicion, I admit.

I would rather have fewer LIs done better than the quantity over quality ship of love in ME2. That is why I prefer the "all bi" LIs to give more choices with fewer better written characters.

[ElitePinecone]

Hm, I'm looking through Allers' lines trying to find the bit about not telling the LI...

Interesting.

Turns out Samantha Traynor wasn't originally in the script. The communications officer was "Lieutenant Sharon Allers".

Did Bioware change the Allers character into an embedded war correspondent on the Normandy, and create Samantha from scratch?

I know they iterate all the time and are constantly changing the writing, but it does seem like the s/s characters weren't originally in the script.

In fact, if 'Greg Cortez' was originally the XO (and a romance option for Chakwas, I think?!) it makes me think they split off two Normandy crewmembers to become the s/s romances and then made some new characters in the extra development time they had.

[Collider]

One argument against the "all bi" approach is that this may tend to lead to essentially gender neutral romances. Some people may like that, of course. Others however may favor romance paths that address the genders involved in a non-trivial way that goes beyond insignificant snippets and pronoun changes.

If you look at the male love interests for female Shepard for example, there's always a good amount of reference to the fact that they're in a relationship with a woman. To maintain that level of uniqueness in relation to gender when all of the romances are bisexual is harder to believe.

Modifié par Collider, 03 février 2012 - 04:14 .

[ElitePinecone]

Blacklash93 wrote...
What if they decided to make Steve and Sam bi to give more options to O/S players since there doesn't seem to be as many as ME2?

It's always possible, but to me this doesn't fit with the development process and the way Steve and Sam were created. 

Bioware planned the s/s romances from a long way out - something like eight or nine months ago, if I'm guessing correctly. They had all the tme in the world then to sit down and tally up who gets what romance in what combination. I'm sure they had the romance planning done *before* the decision to add s/s, which was achieved with new characters and possibly making a select few older characters avalable to both genders. 

Steve and Sam were written, very deliberately, as gay and lesbian crewmembers. I can't find many lines about Sam (that isn't in a Sam-Shep conversation) that don't mention her sexuality. Steve wasn't even given a wife just in case they wanted to make him bisexual one day. A husband is rather harder to retcon. 

What I'm saying is: I don't think it's at all likely that Bioware would write two s/s characters, in great detail, then change their plans. They changed them once already to introduce Steve and Sam, but at that point I'd guess all their other LIs were confirmed. 

It doesn't make sense to me that some time between April/May 2011 and now, somebody at Bioware suddenly realised that they were short on o/s romances and decided to make Steve and Sam available to both genders. If they were going to make them bisexual, they'd have done it when they created the characters. 

[shepskisaac]

The decision to have new (s/s or o/s) LIs for Shep was made in late April/early May. Back then, Casey gave a lengthy interview on romances for PC Gamer in which he said there won't be any new LIs but you will be able to start a romance with existing LIs if you didn't romance them previously, how will there be consequences for cheating and some more bonus "Liara ain't lesbian" excuses when question about gay male romances. It was published on May 14th, but the editor conducted the interview in the previous month so obviously it happened around late April. On May 4th the delay was announced. On May 15th (a day after PC Gamer article was published), Casey announced on Twitter that plans changed regarding romances. So I'm definitely not surprised if both Samantha & Cortez had different roles/romances at the beginning or even still in May and were changed after the decision to have new LIs was made.

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

Abispa wrote...

New players also have the option (I believe) of picking a ME2 LI during the create-a-save feature. Similar to the way a new player could choose from the original three at the start of ME2.

Bioware is free to do whatever they want for LIs, even though I may not be happy with their decisions. Six full fledged romances should be plenty for a game. The only thing I see complicating matters is that only ONE VS is alive at a time.

It wouldn't surprise me if "new" romances can be started with Tali and Garrus, though I am skeptical about them being s/s options (especially Garrus). Of course the script really doesn't strengthen my suspicion, I admit.

I would rather have fewer LIs done better than the quantity over quality ship of love in ME2. That is why I prefer the "all bi" LIs to give more choices with fewer better written characters.

Still, ME3 is the longest and last game in the series. I'd like it if it had many LIs for plot options.

Modifié par Kaiser_Wilhelm, 03 février 2012 - 04:33 .

[silentassassin264]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...
It's simple, guys like F/F romances as much as if not more so than F/M so that is why there are more.

I don't really think it's that simple at all, but I can't think of another explanation for why there are so many f/f romance options. 

Remember that half of ME2 players never played any of the romances. Only 18% of players used femShep. Surely if male players were so enraptured by f/f romances, there'd be more of them playing as femShep to use them?

Granted, ME2 only had Kelly and some flirting with Shiala... 

(I'd be interested to see the telemetry on how many ME femSheps romanced Liara)

While late to respond, I think I got this.  Mass Effect's targeted audience is the 18-29 male audience and most of the romance related stuff was targeted to them.  The "alien babe sex" in ME1 for example was not exploited for her bisexuality but more so of the Captain Kirk green-skinned alien babe effect.  The fact that Asari and Liara can mate with anyone/thing and are omnisexual allowed for Liara to be availabe for femshep but it was more like, "Well you can do it, too femshep." rather than ZOMG LESBIAN ALIEN SEX IN MASS EFFECT !!!!11!!1!1.  Same with Kelly in ME2.  You have a flirty secretary who totally wants to sleep with you at first sight.  This was made with broshep in mind but they weren't going to honestly make a male secretary for the "18%" who play as femshep  and it would probably resulted in a bunch of face plains if they made Kelly straight and gave femshep nothing to match the romance/fling so femshep gets Kelly, too.  Same of course with Shiala and probably Allers.  Giana seemed to be the only one the went out of there way to avoid this.

So pretty much, my theory is that f/f with those extra non squaddies is because it was made for broshep and they didn't bother to make extra hetero content for those "18%"ers and just tacked it on to femshep.   I really don't think they did for the girl on girl is hot trope since their conclusion is guys don't even play femshep if they get lesbian scenes.

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

silentassassin264 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...
It's simple, guys like F/F romances as much as if not more so than F/M so that is why there are more.

I don't really think it's that simple at all, but I can't think of another explanation for why there are so many f/f romance options. 

Remember that half of ME2 players never played any of the romances. Only 18% of players used femShep. Surely if male players were so enraptured by f/f romances, there'd be more of them playing as femShep to use them?

Granted, ME2 only had Kelly and some flirting with Shiala... 

(I'd be interested to see the telemetry on how many ME femSheps romanced Liara)

While late to respond, I think I got this.  Mass Effect's targeted audience is the 18-29 male audience and most of the romance related stuff was targeted to them.  The "alien babe sex" in ME1 for example was not exploited for her bisexuality but more so of the Captain Kirk green-skinned alien babe effect.  The fact that Asari and Liara can mate with anyone/thing and are omnisexual allowed for Liara to be availabe for femshep but it was more like, "Well you can do it, too femshep." rather than ZOMG LESBIAN ALIEN SEX IN MASS EFFECT !!!!11!!1!1.  Same with Kelly in ME2.  You have a flirty secretary who totally wants to sleep with you at first sight.  This was made with broshep in mind but they weren't going to honestly make a male secretary for the "18%" who play as femshep  and it would probably resulted in a bunch of face plains if they made Kelly straight and gave femshep nothing to match the romance/fling so femshep gets Kelly, too.  Same of course with Shiala and probably Allers.  Giana seemed to be the only one the went out of there way to avoid this.

So pretty much, my theory is that f/f with those extra non squaddies is because it was made for broshep and they didn't bother to make extra hetero content for those "18%"ers and just tacked it on to femshep.   I really don't think they did for the girl on girl is hot trope since their conclusion is guys don't even play femshep if they get lesbian scenes.

Only 18% play as Femshep? I think that's an understatement.

[silentassassin264]

 

[jeweledleah]

considering a tweet by one of the developers, wondering why there wasn't a support thread for a particular female character.. oh, right they just created her... I wouldn't be surprised if Samantha was added later.

as far as equality of the LI's IF... the rundown will be as follows (and this is speculation on my part), then, there will be 2 straight LI's (either VS) 2 gay LI's (Sam and Steve) and 2 Bi LI's (Liara and Vega). as a fling- Diana doesn't really count. its possible that there will be a bisexual male fling as well.

either way, from full out LI's, we have 4 LI's for straight folks and 4 LI's for gay folks to chose from, 2 of each gender. bisexual Shepards get the best selection (but honestly that also applies in real life, if you think about it - ability to disregard gender when looking for life certainly creates more possibilities)

looks pretty fair to me.

Edited.  femshep numbers are based of the data collected by bioware via Cerberus network.  forum splits are typicaly not representative of overal numbers, especialy since a lot of people on the forums play both female and male Shepard

Modifié par jeweledleah, 03 février 2012 - 04:35 .

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

looks pretty fair to me.

Only when you treat ME3 as a completly standalone game and disregard Diana, who may be a smaller LI, but still has lots of content, more than Kelly did in ME2. There's also the question whether players will be able to select a ME1/ME2 LI during save-generator at the beginning of ME3. It is already confirmed players do get to make some choices from previous game when creating non-import Shep (picking VS was confirmed by multiple press peviews that appeared today). In Genesis, it was possible to select a ME1 LI so BioWare does seem to consider it as one of the important choices to give new/non-import players to make. So in that light, it doesn't really seem that fair.

[bleetman]

Derp.

Modifié par bleetman, 03 février 2012 - 05:06 .

[Rorschachinstein]

Love is love. Let it be enjoyed by two women or a man and a fish.

[ElitePinecone]

jeweledleah wrote...
Edited.  femshep numbers are based of the data collected by bioware via Cerberus network.  forum splits are typicaly not representative of overal numbers, especialy since a lot of people on the forums play both female and male Shepard

Forum splits are statistically meaningless, yes, all they show is the split of the few hundred or thousand people who respond to them. 

As much as they like their forum fans, Bioware certainly wouldn't defer to those numbers over their own telemetry. 

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

looks pretty fair to me.

Only when you treat ME3 as a completly standalone game and disregard Diana, who may be a smaller LI, but still has lots of content, more than Kelly did in ME2. There's also the question whether players will be able to select a ME1/ME2 LI during save-generator at the beginning of ME3. It is already confirmed players do get to make some choices from previous game when creating non-import Shep (picking VS was confirmed by multiple press peviews that appeared today). In Genesis, it was possible to select a ME1 LI so BioWare does seem to consider it as one of the important choices to give new/non-import players to make. So in that light, it doesn't really seem that fair.

I do concider it as a stand alone game, because as far as prior games are concerned?  its too late to fix the disparity in them.  bioware has to think in terms of new players as well as returning ones.  yes, I'm disregarding Diana, becasue she doesn't seem to be a paramour achievemnt giving romance.  the same way I disregard isabela in DAO and Zevran in DA2. and like I said - its possible that there will be a male version of Diana.  concidering that both Gabby AND Ken were supposed to have been light romances (ala Diana), and weren't finished due to time constraints. male AND female.

so yes, I don' find the fact that, say bisexual femsheps (or malesheps) get the most options to be unfair, as their options seem to be equal in number per gender.  as are those for gay or straight Sheps.  male or female Sheps. assuming my above speculation is correct.

P.S.  its been confirmed that you could chose your VS.  it has not been confirmed if you can chose to "import" an LI.  We don't know how the choices will be made. we'll know some of the extent of them on feb 14th.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 03 février 2012 - 05:39 .

[Ryzaki]

Uh yeah no. FemShep getting Liara, Diana, Kelly and Samantha isn't anything close to fair if dude Shep gets only Cortez. Not even remotely.

Disparity could've been fixed for both games (in terms of LIs at least) by making Diana non-romanceable and giving male Shep 2 more options (Steve, Vega and another side character).

Sorry but gay dude Shep getting just Cortez to me is BS no matter how they spin it at this point.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 février 2012 - 05:41 .

[silentassassin264]

I wouldn't say the love us, more of the begrudgingly accept us...largely because we buy their stuff.  GIven the green-light, I am pretty sure Priestly would go through us with a lightsaber like Anakin through the Jedi Temple younglings,

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...

Uh yeah no. FemShep getting Liara, Diana, Kelly and Samantha isn't anything close to fair if dude Shep gets only Cortez. Not even remotely.

Disparity could've been fixed for both games (in terms of LIs at least) by making Diana m/f only and giving Shep 2 more options (Steve, Vega and another side character).

as I said - IF my speculation is correct.

which means Kelly is NOT a new romance, and male Shep will get Steve, Vega and possible male light romance, ala Diana (aka Kenneth)

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...
as I said - IF my speculation is correct.

which means Kelly is NOT a new romance, and male Shep will get Steve, Vega and possible male light romance, ala Diana (aka Kenneth)

In that case yes it wouldn't be so laughably unbalanced.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...
as far as prior games are concerned?  its too late to fix the disparity in them.

Of course, but it's not like anyone expects/demands 5/6 full m/m LIs to catch up with ManShep/FemShep. We simply would like more than 1 and 3 would be really optimal and not that much to ask considering the previous 2 games.

jeweledleah wrote...
and like I said - its possible that there will be a male version of Diana.  concidering that both Gabby AND Ken were supposed to have been light romances (ala Diana), and weren't finished due to time constraints. male AND female.

Nothing in the script suggest this will happen though. There's not even another male character that could even hypothetically be available for m/m romance. So it's basically "there's a possibility there'll be another new character written in with m/m romance" kind of blind guess.

Even if Diana is not a full LI, more content is more content. That's just a fact. So at the moment, Straight ManShep and LesShep DO have advantage over FemShep and GayShep.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 03 février 2012 - 05:46 .

[ElitePinecone]

silentassassin264 wrote...

GIven the green-light, I am pretty sure Priestly would go through us with a lightsaber like Anakin through the Jedi Temple younglings,

Now THAT is a fantastic mental image. 

Surely Woo cares?

[ElitePinecone]

IsaacShep wrote...
Nothing in the script suggest this will happen though. There's not even another male character that could even hypothetically be available for m/m romance. So it's basically "there's a possibility there'll be another new character written in with m/m romance" kind of blind guess.

This is true. 

Playing devil's advocate for a second, we haven't heard anything about the XO.

It appears he was significantly changed from 'Greg Cortez', who seemed to have a light romance with Dr Chakwas, when they used that name for Steve instead.

Of course, there's no evidence for it.

(And Kenneth? No. It's not in the script, not one hint. Even though he's in ME3, he can be dead.)