25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Game_Fan_85]

Criz-Zone wrote...
Snip

Ahh, thank you, that explains a lot.  I am thinking of going through it again but my earliest save is 10 hours before I did the suicide mission and I am not sure if I CAN go back and re-play it.  I remember reading when it was released that the suicide mission was final and could not be changed without re-playing the game.  I couldn't be bothered changing the discs again to check after I finished Arrival.  Ah well....

[Abispa]

Game_Fan_85 wrote...

The thing that annoyed me in my replay is that the first time around I saved EVERYBODY, all crew and squad mates yet this time Mordin died as well as every single crew member but the doctor.  I have no idea what I did wrong the second time.  Maybe all that time I spent mining after getting the suicide mission is what made the crew die?  I never knew it was time based.

I'm not sure about the EXACT magic formula, but, as I understand it, the more squadmates you have, the more "badass" characters you need to leave behind to ensure all those who "cover your back" survive. So if you have Legion and the DLC guys, you need more than one "bad ass" character to cover them. It MAY also depend  if you made their special abilities geared toward killing or survival.

I know Grunt and Zaeed are "bad asses," and I am kinda sure that Garrus and Jack are, too. Just to be safe I leave Miranda behind. The only times I mysteriously lost Tali or Mordin were when I took her with me and sent Garrus or Zaeed back with the Normandy survivors.

[Ryzaki]

Abispa wrote...
I'm not sure about the EXACT magic formula, but, as I understand it, the more squadmates you have, the more "badass" characters you need to leave behind to ensure all those who "cover your back" survive. So if you have Legion and the DLC guys, you need more than one "bad ass" character to cover them. It MAY also depend  if you made their special abilities geared toward killing or survival.

I know Grunt and Zaeed are "bad asses," and I am kinda sure that Garrus and Jack are, too. Just to be safe I leave Miranda behind. The only times I mysteriously lost Tali or Mordin were when I took her with me and sent Garrus or Zaeed back with the Normandy survivors.

I believe these characters have the highest HTL scores (loyalty adds one point to HTL score). Jack's not on their level.

Jack's one of the weaker defenders.

[SolidBeast]

katerinafm wrote...

^ We certainly are but what else could we do until we get to see for ourselves? XD

BUT. His answer doesn't really make sense otherwise, does it?

Well, yeah, it doesn't. Unless coded, it's pretty lame. Could have just ignored me.

Luca Stern wrote...

Alright,
arguments against Kaidan being m/m are still valid. BW's not always
absolutely honest about spoilers. Might as well be a joke, since it
doesn't really say anything. We interpret only a "coded" message.

True enough. But I've found, when there's nothing there, that they don't even bother to reply. I don't usually pay attention to caps on twitter, but "Answer - totally" is quite convenient.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 05 février 2012 - 05:40 .

[Cratto]

Key thing is that are all loyal (i normally max out there special powers plus class skill not sure if it helps though). And use the following: team leader miranda or garrus; I swap them round. I prefer legion for the ducts. Send mordin back with the survivors. Miranda or garrus again. Samara for the biotic. And take two of jack, tali or miranda for the final fight. That should do it.

[katerinafm]

SolidBeast wrote...

katerinafm wrote...

^ We certainly are but what else could we do until we get to see for ourselves? XD

BUT. His answer doesn't really make sense otherwise, does it?

Well, yeah, it doesn't. Unless coded, it's pretty lame. Could have just ignored me.

Luca Stern wrote...

Alright,
arguments against Kaidan being m/m are still valid. BW's not always
absolutely honest about spoilers. Might as well be a joke, since it
doesn't really say anything. We interpret only a "coded" message.

True enough. But I've found, when there's nothing there, that they don't even bother to reply. I don't usually pay attention to caps on twitter, but "Answer - totally" is quite convenient.

Exactly

[bas_kon]

@SolidBeast, @katerinafm, @Luca Stern

IMO,it would have been enough with the first part of the answer, which is basicaly what the devs have been saying all this time. It's redundant and it doesn't make sense that he added the "but I'll TOTALLY respond you" thing, plus the two words in capitals, if it doesn't mean anything beyond that.
It's still speculation, though. But at least I'm not the only one who thinks it's odd.

[R0X13]

Collider wrote...


They didn't cut or scrap the s/s romances in ME1. They were never planned or made to begin with. Considered, yes. But it was never in production. So it wasn't a matter of sticking to their guns or being afraid.

Then why is there recorded dialog for it? If you do the sex change hack MShep asks Kaidan about why he joined and again you can chide him but it's voice acted with MShep's voice. Sure there are some parts that arent cause it wasn't finished. I honestly don't know why that segement was cut anyway even if they were scrapping it but I guess it's because it leads to possible romance (like with FemShep) and just cut it rather than writing and programming a different options after that scene. I'm not sure either way but I'm pretty sure the dialog hints they had originally planned for it.

I actually felt Kaidan was out of character on Horizon, so it is still hard to believe. 

 I respect your opinion but wholeheartedly disagree. Kaidan (to me) is just as vunerable (if not more) than any of the other crew members. Sure he puts on a tough face but Kaidan deeply respected Shepard and is stunned by his/her loss. Maybe (either Male of Female) you can pursue this in ME3 and find out that your loss hurt it deeper than he expected and has found he does have feelings OR depeding on your choices it turns out he just respects you as a commander and was thrown off guard because out of anyone he didn't think he'd lose you too. 

[katerinafm]

It all depends on how you take the conversations you have between Kaidan and your Shep. Personally, I thought that by the end of ME1 mShep and Kaidan had a good friendship going on that was only held back by the fact that Kaidan respects Shepard as a commander.

With the time between the end of ME1 and the start of ME2, it's easy to imagine that Shepard and Kaidan became very good friends. If you have a Shepard that doesn't care though/ was rude/ignored him, of course it's going to be shocking to hear Kaidan say that he lost part of himself on Horizon.

But almost all of my Shepards wanted to be friends with him (and most of them more than that ) so it was something that was very believable for them to hear. And it also gives a great hint in case Kaidan becomes s/s available.

Modifié par katerinafm, 05 février 2012 - 08:02 .

[bigbrowncows]

Because I always wanted a s/s romance with Kaidan I probably read into their dialogue a lot more than was healthy. And after Kaidan's big strop on Horizon I think it would make perfect sense if he ended up admitting feelings for mshep. At least in my tiny mind it would.

Also, I love how a 7 or 8 word tweet can stand up to so much scrutiny and interpretation. I'm totalling putting money on bi- Kaidan now... Lol

[Jazinto]

R0X13 wrote...

Collider wrote...


They didn't cut or scrap the s/s romances in ME1. They were never planned or made to begin with. Considered, yes. But it was never in production. So it wasn't a matter of sticking to their guns or being afraid.

Then why is there recorded dialog for it? If you do the sex change hack MShep asks Kaidan about why he joined and again you can chide him but it's voice acted with MShep's voice. Sure there are some parts that arent cause it wasn't finished. I honestly don't know why that segement was cut anyway even if they were scrapping it but I guess it's because it leads to possible romance (like with FemShep) and just cut it rather than writing and programming a different options after that scene. I'm not sure either way but I'm pretty sure the dialog hints they had originally planned for it.

Both Shepard voice actors recorded both sides of the romance. The
romance dialog was included in the main follower conversation file, and
ultimately, it was considered faster just to have the actor do a take
on every dialog line, regardless of whether it was one that would ever
fire in game, than to spend part of the VO session trying to figure out
whether a given line was on the romance track or not.

Once the
lines were recorded, there was a brief high-level discussion about
whether we should make Kaiden and Ashley bisexual, since the lines were
already there. The leads decided not to do it. The lines work on a
technical level, but they didn’t do justice to the characters and
sounded very strange sometimes. Beyond that, there were questions about
having to do a different cutscene for different genders.

But to
be clear, it was never part of the plan. It was only briefly
considered after the lines were recorded, and it was only recorded
because it was easier and faster than marking some lines as “Hale* only
records”.

*Jennifer Hale is the voice of FemShep.

[Ryzaki]

Sadly.

If the devs had gone ahead and went with the odd sounding lines we wouldn't have this thread today *sighs*it's not like Shep can't sound awkward during some love scenes (Hi there dude Shep and Liara.)

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 février 2012 - 08:20 .

[Collider]

Criz-Zone wrote...
Isn't the 'losing you was like losing a limb'-line in the Horizon dialog regardless of Shepard's gender?

Yes.
So hearing that line as male Shepard is awkward.

I disagree with that last part, it's very much possible for them to put m/m on equal footing with f/f.

No, because Liara exists. F/F with Liara existed in ME1, ME2, and is therefore an actual trilogy romance.
Nothing they do in ME3 would change the fact that M/M romances did not exist in the first two games.

Perhaps the "lost a limb" could be used as a hint that Kaidan discovered those feelings after mShep's death?

He says the same thing to unromanced female Shepards, which frankly seems to fit more.

Also, I romanced Jack in ME2 the first time around but (of course) not
the second.  I told her I was not interested in sex but it still went
towards me romancing her so I told her I was not interested which pissed
her off and I could no longer speak to her, she just screamed
"F*** OFF!) everytime I tried speaking.  That seemed a bit stupid to me.

You have to tell her no twice.

I think the VSs were right on Horizon

They are right not to drop their career to help Shepard, but not right to rush to conclusions condemning Shepard as a traitor and betrayer.

Personally, I thought that by the end of ME1 mShep and Kaidan had a
good friendship going on that was only held back by the fact that Kaidan
respects Shepard as a commander.

I might agree if he didn't treat unromanced female Shepard differently from male Shepard. If the only thing holding him back was respect as a commander, then he would have treated him the same as he does unromanced femshep. Unless he doesn't respect female Shepard as a commander, which is unlikely.

Because I always wanted a s/s romance with Kaidan I probably read into their dialogue a lot more than was healthy.

I would have liked Kaidan M/M in ME1, but as it is, it's hard not to see the relationship as just being at-a-distance friendship at best. One of the biggest problems is that lack of content and that the last conversation end abruptly. Every other squad mate essentially has an end conversation where you get a strong impression of respect and friendship.
I believe Kaidan's conversation with male Shepard ends talking about aliens and Kaidan saying that it's as if everyone's gone out of their mind.
I'm not really one for head canon.

[bas_kon]

Collider wrote...
I might agree if he didn't treat unromanced female Shepard differently from male Shepard. If the only thing holding him back was respect as a commander, then he would have treated him the same as he does unromanced femshep. Unless he doesn't respect female Shepard as a commander, which is unlikely.
I would have liked Kaidan M/M in ME1, but as it is, it's hard not to see the relationship as just being at-a-distance friendship at best. One of the biggest problems is that lack of content and that the last conversation end abruptly. Every other squad mate essentially has an end conversation where you get a strong impression of respect and friendship.
I believe Kaidan's conversation with male Shepard ends talking about aliens and Kaidan saying that it's as if everyone's gone out of their mind.
I'm not really one for head canon.

You know, it's true we don't know enough about the vision ME people have about homosexuality. But we've seen enough men and women relations with one another to know, men in ME gay (shepard) or not (anyone else) are more distant with other men than with women in general (as irl). At least until ME3.

Also, there's the fact that M!Shep never has the option to get as deep as F!Shep with him, but it's because he didn't get to say the same things she can (missing or changed dialogue options). Not because Kaidan himself, as a character, doesn't want to get closer to him.

I, myself, was more attached to him as m!shep than as f!Shep, because she didn't give a damn about men.

Plus, his awkwardness after Virmire (he didn't think you'd save him), his reluctance to leave the ship without m!Shep at the beginning of ME2, his reaction when he met him on Horizon and the fact that he tries to help you in the distance, trying to convince the coucil to do something about the collectors (as Anderson says after Horizon), kinda tells you how he felt about their relationship.
How m!Shep (you) felt is another thing completely. You don't play as Kaidan, so you can't say/know how he feels if he doesn't tell you, you can only say/know/control how you m!Shep acts/feels about him and in that case it's all subjetive, IMO.

Modifié par bas_kon, 05 février 2012 - 09:47 .

[bas_kon]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sadly.

If the devs had gone ahead
and went with the odd sounding lines we wouldn't have this thread today
*sighs*it's not like Shep can't sound awkward during some love scenes
(Hi there dude Shep and Liara.)

I didn't think the lines sounded so odd...except when he refers to m!shep as a woman, of course

Modifié par bas_kon, 05 février 2012 - 09:54 .

[katerinafm]

^ I agree .

[Collider]

But we've seen enough men and women relations with one another to know, men in ME (as irl) are more distant with other men than with women, in general. At least until ME3.

I don't think that means that homosexuality isn't accepted.

Also, there's the fact that M!Shep never has the option to get as deep as F!Shep with him, but it's because he didn't get to say the same things she can (missing or changed dialogue options). Not because Kaidan himself, as a character, doesn't want to get closer to him.

I'm not completely certain, but that seems flat out untrue.
Pretty sure Kaidan reacts differently to Shepard saying or doing the same thing, depending on gender.
Which means it's not just a matter of Shepard not saying certain things.

It's very possible that Kaidan had feelings for male Shepard in ME1/ME2, I just don't find strong friendship and romantic feelings during those games very believable considering how distant the relationship was in ME1. And when it comes down to it - if they decide to make Kaidan romanceable by male Shepard, it's a decision probably made during ME3's production rather than in advance. That is to say, Kaidan's interactions with male Shepard in ME1 was never planned to be romance and therefore very unlikely to have intentional homosexual subtext. Same goes for ME2.

Kaidan mentioning have had feelings would in all likelihood essentially be a retcon in the same way as Tali was. Which I understand some people didn't like (including possibly in this thread).

How m!Shep (you) felt is another thing completely. You don't play as Kaidan, so you can't say/know how he feels if he doesn't tell you, you can only say/know/control how you m!Shep acts/feels about him and in that case it's all subjetive, IMO.

What isn't there matters - especially considering that it's a video game. Everything is deliberate.

I didn't think the lines sounded so odd...except when he refers to m!shep as a woman, of course

It didn't sound very good to hear Kaidan talk about Kahlee being beautiful and reading novels about proving himself for the woman he loves - in a homosexual male context.

[Unbannable]

Hmm, I'm definitely not in the "fight for the love" support group, but even I have to admit that from a fairness standpoint, gay guys get screwed over big time in the ME series.

I'm certain a lot more gay men will be playing ME3 than gay women, yet gay women (through sheer coincidence) have considerably more romance options.

[Jazinto]

That's because everything lesbian is actually intented as fan service for the overwhelmingly large straight male audience. Or so we suspect.

[Vapaa]

Luca Stern wrote...

That's because everything lesbian is actually intented as fan service for the overwhelmingly large straight male audience. Or so we suspect.

Yes and no, as Elite pointed out, Femshep are only 18% of the total Shepards, so I don't think that said fanservice is a big reason (it's certainly one of the reasons but a big one ? I don't think so).

[SolidBeast]

Unbannable wrote...

I'm certain a lot more gay men will be playing ME3 than gay women, yet gay women (through sheer coincidence) have considerably more romance options.

Yes, but gay content isn't limited to gay people. In fact, I'm willing to bet the majority of f/f players are straight males.
Similarly, a lot of female players play the m/m romances.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 05 février 2012 - 10:40 .

[Unbannable]

Luca Stern wrote...

That's because everything lesbian is actually intented as fan service for the overwhelmingly large straight male audience. Or so we suspect.

Yes thats likely to be quite true, because from a numbers perspective, it doesn't make sense to pander to gay female gamers over gay male gamers.

Of course, the gay gamer market is pretty small to begin with anyway.

[Abispa]

You don't have to be gay to role play gay characters, any more than you have to have personal military or space travel experience to play Shepard.

[Jazinto]

Vapaä wrote...

Luca Stern wrote...

That's because everything lesbian is actually intented as fan service for the overwhelmingly large straight male audience. Or so we suspect.

Yes and no, as Elite pointed out, Femshep are only 18% of the total Shepards, so I don't think that said fanservice is a big reason (it's certainly one of the reasons but a big one ? I don't think so).

18% is from Bioware's ME2 statistic some time after release. I think they had either a statistic or resonance about Liara in the first game, which was less than they expected and so they only had light romance Kelly as f/f option in ME2. From a developers point of view it doesn't make sense to include content targeted at lesbian women, but not content targeted at gay men, when the target audience is mostly male.

Took a break while writing, didn't see Unbannable's post. What he said, yes.

Modifié par Luca Stern, 05 février 2012 - 11:06 .