25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Rinji the Bearded]

*sigh*

I'm erring on the side of caution/pessimism, guys.  All the recent press has really made me believe the game is run by a bunch of dudebros, not the writers or anyone with any kind of real sensibility.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 06 février 2012 - 08:38 .

[katerinafm]

IsaacShep wrote...

Or, they will have Kaidan be available
for gay romance because they want to, or because many fans asked for it
since the day ME1 was released, or because they would've done it in ME1
if it wasn't for time constraints and use the opportunity to do it now.
There are tons of reasons, I doubt it's all about "but what will the
hypocritical straight guys say?"

I wasn't saying that Kaidan will necessarily be bi because of those reasons. I said that if they decided to make him bi it'd be a smart choice for them. Of course it'd be better if they didn't think about the best way to sneak in extra options without making the fans rage, but I'm just saying.

Modifié par katerinafm, 06 février 2012 - 08:42 .

[wheelyjon]

katerinafm wrote...

The more I think about it, the more I believe that revealing that Kaidan is bi in ME3 is a smart choice. I mean, Kaidan already gets left behind on Virmire by most players (we are the exceptions apparently, since I keep reading 'Kaidan, also known as the guy that you killed on Virmire' in every single article I read), so if they make him an s/s choice in ME3 that would mean that most straight male players wouldn't even have that option in the game, and that way Bioware would avoid some rage (not that they'll be able to avoid fan rage either way but still).

you know it deos make sense  and gives me a tad of hope -  and links with all the lines like 'i miss him i wish we had  more time'

and shouting 'im tied of my best friends not beliveing me' lira ' say i heard what [sig pause] kadain said on hirzon'
and how he got really egar to fluster the sex talk with girls out of the way in me1  lol
etc etc freed in lines or what lol

[SolidBeast]

Blacklash93 wrote...

It looks like BSN just had another one of its S/S spasms again.

I'm
sure Kaiser Shepard and his friends are all patting themselves on the
back for ripping on us like they always do. They should look in a mirror
if they're talking about immaturity. They do nothing to contribute to
this forum other than flame-bait and throw insults and Bioware and other
posters.

*looks at KS's profile*

Yep, "Likes" all around. Such a shame all their opinions stem from prejudice and bias.

What/who on earth are you talking about?

Luca Stern wrote...

I hope Bioware didn't think: "Oh, look at all the people saying Kaidan is so gay and the supporters of same-sex content, they all want Kaiden, let's give 'em Kaidan." It's a bit like: "Here you go, take FemSheps old toy, while FemShep gets a new one. You know the oldest one, the one you were forbidden to play with before. You can have it now. We'll just paint it blue for you. And you still have to share it with FemShep." It's ridiculous, almost cute
...Apart from being utterly disrespectful to actual gay fans again.

If a woman wears a mini skirt and some **** yells "sl*t!" at her, I don't go thinking "She obviously must never wear that again", I think "that guy is a ****". In other words, what kind of a pu**y fears what some random immature idiot thinks and removes content because of him?
If BioWare decided against Kaidan because someone, somewhere thinks slight sensitivity is "totally gay", I would be seriously disappointed in them.
Furthermore, giving us a trilogy-spanning character that is a squadmate and will carry significance to the plot, whose romance is fleshed out and who should have been available to both Sheps from the start is far from disrespectful. Hell, how is listening to the fans that complained he wasn't a s/s romance disrespectful?

Modifié par SolidBeast, 06 février 2012 - 08:41 .

[shepskisaac]

I'm erring on the side of waiting. I have no idea how will it go, done my share of guessing, so I'm just gonna chill now and wait for the answer ;P At worst, there's only Steve, but my Shep will be happy with him too

[Blacklash93]

SolidBeast wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

It looks like BSN just had another one of its S/S spasms again.

I'm
sure Kaiser Shepard and his friends are all patting themselves on the
back for ripping on us like they always do. They should look in a mirror
if they're talking about immaturity. They do nothing to contribute to
this forum other than flame-bait and throw insults and Bioware and other
posters.

*looks at KS's profile*

Yep, "Likes" all around. Such a shame all their opinions stem from prejudice and bias.

What/who on earth are you talking about?

Just venting about a thread that got closed about an hour ago.

[Collider]

katerinafm wrote...
^ Because something being optional has stopped fans from raging before?

I've saying that they don't need to design the game to cater to players who get offended from the slightest gay flirt.

Modifié par Collider, 06 février 2012 - 08:47 .

[katerinafm]

^Of course they don't. That doesn't mean that they will stop.

[Collider]

If that's really their goal...Steve doesn't help.
Even for the homophobic male player who killed off Kaidan in ME1, Steve still exists and therefore so does the option to romance or flirt with him (and Steve also seems to openly mention having had a husband). There's still rage anyway from the people who get upset for simply having a visible dialog option to same sex flirt or having an openly gay crew member.

[katerinafm]

That's why they won't be able to avoid the fan rage either way .

[bas_kon]

Collider wrote...

afaik, Kaidan's abrupt lack of content was caused because of the limited resources

I'm not sure we really know that. They just decided that the dialog present for Ashley/Kaidan didn't fit for same sex romance. Anything beyond that is supposition unless I'm missing a comment by a writer who actually says they would have made Ashley/Kaidan bisexual if they had more time to write and record.

I'm pretty sure I was talking about the friendly path between kaidan and m!shep and the lack of content in that path there. I don't know why you brought up romances there.
As for Vega being manly, I supose everyone has their own prototype of what a manly man look or act like. It might also depend on the country and the stereotypes there. An english friend of mine for instance, told me once that lots of straight men here, look like gay men there. That's why we won't agree, just different cultures.

I really don't ship any characters period. I do prefer Vega to Kaidan though in terms of getting a different character archetype for M/M romance.

I may have use the wrong words, as a non native speaker who haven't even been to an English speaking country, my vocabulary is very limited and may use words in a different way than I intended. I also like Vega though, but he wouldn't be my second option.
I suppose we'll have to wait and see, if it were my call all three of them would be s/s so I could replay the game more times.

[Collider]

That's why they won't be able to avoid the fan rage either way .

So it's smarter just to do the romances how they want to, imo, because the homophobic rage will happen.

And from the looks of the script, Kaidan pretty much just tells Shepard that he wants more than friendship from Shepard anyway. And they might just keep that for the M/M romance if they decide to do it.

[katerinafm]

It will happen, but perhaps to a lesser degree if one of the options is Kaidan (rather than say, Garrus that all players get in ME2) which means the homophobic fans won't even be able to see that the option is there in the third game altogether and rage about his character being changed or whatever.

No matter how much they can't avoid the fan rage, that doesn't mean they'd stop trying to add less fuel to their fans' rage than necessary.

[bas_kon]

IsaacShep wrote...

I'm erring on the side of waiting. I have no idea how will it go, done my share of guessing, so I'm just gonna chill now and wait for the answer ;P At worst, there's only Steve, but my Shep will be happy with him too

This, so very true.

[Collider]

The question is, is catering to homophobic players so heavily really that important, let alone smart?

[katerinafm]

That is questionable indeed

[Abispa]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Luca Stern wrote...

I didn't say that's how I feel. I'm talking about general interest. It's rather simple. The Mordin thread has 25 pages. Kirrahe's only 2. Already says a lot. No matter if pixels or reality humans generally prefer attractive physique.

All of the LIs for ME3 (sans Liara and the returning ME2 ones) are human, though. 

It might be that alien romances are considered too risky when aiming for a larger audience, I don't know.

That, and the staff probably wants to avoid another ME game suggesting that a s/s relationship is less "normal" than a xenosexual relationship. Kelly is SO open-minded! She would not only consider having sex with alien species, but even someone the SAME GENDER! OMG!

[Criz]

RinjiRenee wrote...

*sigh*

I'm erring on the side of caution/pessimism, guys.  All the recent press has really made me believe the game is run by a bunch of dudebros, not the writers or anyone with any kind of real sensibility.

remember when Gaider wrote a reply to that dude who was being vocal about gays in DA2?
I had an odd dream the other night where I tweeted him, urging him to pick up the phone, call Casey's number and read his reply out loud ...
just to make sure ...

I mean, I don't need an entirely different romance ... I may be part of a minority but I was perfectly fine with the mHawke/Anders romance being pretty much identical to femHawke/Anders save perhaps that one time when Anders asked if mHawke is bothered by Anders being with Karl before (don't get me started on my default-looking Hawke's complexes about Anders only liking him for the beard though )

[ElitePinecone]

Collider wrote...

The question is, is catering to homophobic players so heavily really that important, let alone smart?

Even among people who would oppose s/s content, only a certain amount would froth at the mouth enough to bother communicating their displeasure to Bioware through ranty forum posts - and while a few deranged individuals remain, the 'omg gays nooooooo' forum threads that used to appear regularly have died down. 

Frankly, given the tiny numbers of protests even on a forum like this (and despite DA2's brouhaha) I don't think it's going to be much of a problem. ME3's preorder figures are enormous and it's been constantly publicised that there are s/s romances in the game. 

I don't think there's at all a mindset of 'catering' to homophobia. If anything Steve and Sam are some of the most positive representations of non-heterosexuality we've seen in a Bioware game. They're well-adjusted military types, you can't kill them at the drop of a hat, they can't be sent off the ship, they're with Shepard from the start of the game, they aren't 'secret' (a la Sky), their orientation is made pretty clear by ambient dialogue or their own conversations, and they're pretty much required for much of the game. You talk to Sam constantly to set up communications and Steve has lines in the shuttle. 

[OSUP]

I demand my Vega to be fabulous. That is all.

[Bundalings]

Heh, funny people saying they want Vega to be gay because it will buck trends, because when I first saw him the first thing I thought was "new gay love interest."

I don't know, he just gives off that vibe to me. Whatever, not attractive to me. I'm playing through ME2 one last time and leaving Shep blank for Steve.

[OSUP]

Bundalings wrote...

Heh, funny people saying they want Vega to be gay because it will buck trends, because when I first saw him the first thing I thought was "new gay love interest."

I don't know, he just gives off that vibe to me. Whatever, not attractive to me. I'm playing through ME2 one last time and leaving Shep blank for Steve.

Oh I don't care about trends. I just want him to be able to sleep with my MShep. He has that tough shell soft core thing that is precious.

[xassantex]

i stopped checking in this thread for a while ..

who are Steve and Sam ?

[SolidBeast]

Bundalings wrote...

Heh, funny people saying they want Vega to be gay because it will buck trends, because when I first saw him the first thing I thought was "new gay love interest."

I don't know, he just gives off that vibe to me. Whatever, not attractive to me. I'm playing through ME2 one last time and leaving Shep blank for Steve.

You're not the only one. Hence why I'm a little confused why people on here think he'll break stereotypes, while thinking the opposite is true for Kaidan.

@xassantex - new gay exclusive characters. Steve is the shuttle pilot, while Samantha is the communications specialist. Each has their own thread, but they have not been officially announced yet.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 06 février 2012 - 11:59 .

[Jazinto]

IsaacShep wrote...

And the rest of your post about FemShep's old toys was about... ?

SolidBeast wrote...

If a woman wears a mini skirt and some **** yells "sl*t!" at her, I don't go thinking "She obviously must never wear that again", I think "that guy is a ****". In other words, what kind of a pu**y fears what some random immature idiot thinks and removes content because of him?
If BioWare decided against Kaidan because someone, somewhere thinks slight sensitivity is "totally gay", I would be seriously disappointed in them.
Furthermore, giving us a trilogy-spanning character that is a squadmate and will carry significance to the plot, whose romance is fleshed out and who should have been available to both Sheps from the start is far from disrespectful. Hell, how is listening to the fans that complained he wasn't a s/s romance disrespectful?

I'm not arguing against Kaidan being m/m, I was arguing against doing so for the wrong reasons. If he's available I will romance him. I don't really know what I'm saying. I've been playing Mass Effect again...

First time I played I was looking for some kind of cue. Kaidan wasn't super interesting, but he was the only dude npc around. I knew there was trouble in the states about lesbian sex with alien, but I didn't know exactly what was going on. Silly teenage me thought Mass Effect would improve on the fade-to-black Jade Empire, not go back to gay-excluding Kotor. I like RPGs, Scifi's okay, but the end of  '07 was the time of Modern Warfare and Halo 3, Crysis, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed and so many great games. The only reason I bought ME was, because I assumed there was gay content as well.
Bioware decided ManShep couldn't have Kaidan back then. To be honest having him be m/m now would be major fan service. They would make Kaidan bi, not reveal him as bi. "Once the lines were recorded, there was a brief high-level discussion about whether we should make Kaiden and Ashley bisexual, since the lines were already there. The leads decided not to do it." Wether or not this is true, they didn't decide to make him secretly bisexual. Kaidan did tell a story about a girl he once loved, he was romanceable by FemShep. The devs most certainly didn't say "He's only an LI for FemShep, but really he's bisexual, just not interested in ManShep." They decided not make him romanceable by ManShep. In other words they decided not to make him bisexual.
I'll try to explain. Bi Kaidan wouldn't be a meaningful, triology-arching friendship-gone-romance to me. He would remind me of not being able to romance him in the first game and of the unspoken words of Bioware it carries with it. That (while they bothered to include manic-depressive, asian, autistic, black, old, indian, disabled, bisexual and lesbian characters from different nations and aiming for complete gender equality) including gay content wasn't worth the effort and the trouble, not even a random side character somewhere. That bonus fantasy  romances with aliens were more important and still are. That we still wouldn't have any m/m content, if they hadn't pushed back the release date. That they didn't decide to include gay content this time, because it is right and a good thing to do, but because they had so much time, they could go so low on their priority list.
Thinking about it aggravates me. I know having m/m conent is a good thing no matter what. And depending on what options we have I will romance Kaidan. It just doesn't change, that I'm angry.