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[Finis Valorum]

Tietj wrote...

Gay guys hug women sometimes

Others have already said it better then I ever could but some of those hugs are not just friendly hugs, they're clearly flirtatious and really uncomfortable and ManShep has no other option but to stand there and act like he likes it.
The Tali or Nef's mother comfort hugs are fine with me (the Liara reunion hug in ME2 falls somewhere in the middle) , coincidentally those non molesty hugs are also completely optional, you don't have to comfort either Tali or Nef's mother if you do not want to but you do have to act as if you like those other, flirtatious and inappropriate hugs.

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 13 février 2012 - 05:14 .

[bas_kon]

BTW, does anyone know anything about the full game leaked thing they are thalking about? Maybe in the next hours/days they can tell if Kaidan is s/s or not (probably not, since I don't think our concerns are high enough in their list)

[LiaraShepard]

SolidBeast wrote...

Finis Valorum wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

Yeah, we've already gone through that, there is nothing that concretely suggests anyone else is s/s romanceable other than Cortez. In fact, it suggests otherwise.

Indeed the only thing it suggests is that the lines triggering the new romances are gender neutral but the rest of Kaidan's scenes (havent looked at Vega yet) seem to suggest it's only for FemShep, he reacts to Thane, Garrus and Jacob but not to Miranda and Jack or Tali. So unless Kaidan is only bi if you haven't triggered any romance flags at all in any of the previous him being available seems rather unlikely at this point.

You're wrong here. The only reason he mentions Thane and Jacob is in femShep's case, because she had the option to move on from him and pick one of them.

LiaraShepard wrote...

well, If kaidan was bi there would be at least one dialogue option that refers to his bisexual feelings towards shepard....otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to suddenly fall in love with the same gender.  Even Anders had one line.

See, I don't believe in this in real life and not in games. There is no reason why someone wouldn't suddenly fall in love with the same gender. In fact, there is no reason to think he wasn't bisexual the entire time, just never felt the need to bring it up. He could just say "I have feelings for you", without adding "even though we're both men" - I mean, no ****, Sherlock.

Yeah,of course he can be bisexual since the events of mass effect 1. And I'd be really glad to see that he is. But he knows shepard for a very long time. wouldn't you be surprised to find out that the person you thought to know is bisexual? I think it would make more sense to give both of them the option to express their surprise, especially if shepard is bisexual or gay as well.

[Knightly_BW]

While I understand Finis point, I think devs see ME games as a movie. From characters model based upon real life actors to forced cinematics. So there ain't any gay Action Sci-fi Movie stars. From Jamed Bond to Luke Skywalker to Star Trek franchise.

Even they trying to represent LGBT community to an extend you can't see a gay Superhero under spotlight. One of the best series Marvel published in recent years, Young Avengers stopped after 12th issue. Characters are still in Marvel Universe but not playing any major roles anymore. DC even can't publish a book based on gay character however Batwoman has her own title. If you think DC writing team lead by Geoff Johns who is gay. On top of that if you play DCUO you can see Batwoman flirting with a female officer on Gotham East End station (possibly that officer is Montaya).

Some can think a gay character or a lesbian one serves same purpose for LGBT community. However while lesbians are fantasy metarial, gay characters will ruin their target audience's masculinity. Also depending on my MMO experience, as most straight male players tend to play as female characters, putting in lesbian romances or Asari ones another way to protect their young playerbase from the evilness of gayness. While they will be free of being gay influenced (they don't need to banged by a dude) also serves as fantasy token. Seems like two birds with one stone.

Also while I am on my pessimist peak, probably they put Cortez as "gay" option and make it known widely just to warn straight boys from "gay epidemic". So they don't find themselves in romance with a dude just like DA 2. Don't keep your hopes up for "bi" characters in ME universe, from what I've seen chances are pretty low. Especially with Vega as he is cool bro' of Shepard.

So in the end in ME universe LGBT = Lesbian as it adds flavour to Universe and wet juvenile boys pants.

//Pessimist mode off

[Finis Valorum]

SolidBeast wrote...

You're wrong here. The only reason he mentions Thane and Jacob is in femShep's case, because she had the option to move on from him and pick one of them.

But he reacts quite strongly in ME1 when FemSheps seems to favour Liara.
But okay let's reverse this then do Liara, Tali or Miranda react to Kaidan in any way? Since that would at least indicate you could move on from them to him.

[Tietj]

As the makers of the game, they have every right to cater to whatever group they want to. If I were given freedom to design my own game, I would cater to gay guys (it wouldn't do so well sales-wise, of course). They don't "owe" anybody anything, and the fact that they decided to include us should be celebrated and lauded, not picked apart with suspicion.

[ReveurIngenu]

Are we really sure Cortez is only gay? Just as we are unable to determine whether or not Kaidan and Vega will be bi, and as the leaked script was not finished, I think it's a little premature to start saying Cortez is gay only. I'm just afraid many of you will end up disappointed (maybe a bit digusted?) if you find out in the full game that Cortez can be with female Shepard. I think it's best to stay cautious.

I personally haven't read the leaked script (any parts of it, including the romance parts), so maybe it would be hard for Cortez to be bi after that (which is kind of what I'm getting from the posts here). But I just think I will stay cautious all the same. I mean, his character model did change from with hair to nearly bald... Whose to say his sexuality hasn't changed since the leaked script?

[Collider]

according to the leaked script, it looks like James is bi.

There's nothing in the leak script whatsoever that points to James being bisexual.
There are compilations on the internet that group together lines that are separate, giving the wrong impression.
Vega is very obviously a lover of women in his dialog but absolutely nothing there for men.

As for Cortez...it's all very subjective. Some people think he's plain. Some people think he's hot. No matter what, there's always going to be people who are unsatisfied with a love interest. Just the way it is.
They can choose "pretty and cute" Kaidan and someone will dislike it.

Modifié par Collider, 13 février 2012 - 04:14 .

[LiaraShepard]

Collider wrote...

according to the leaked script, it looks like James is bi.

There's nothing in the leak script whatsoever that points to James being bisexual.
There are compilations on the internet that group together lines that are separate, giving the wrong impression.
Vega is very obviously a lover of women in his dialog but absolutely nothing there for men.

As for Cortez...it's all very subjective. Some people think he's plain. Some people think he's hot. No matter what, there's always going to people who are unsatisfied with a love interest. Just the way it is.
They can choose "pretty and cute" Kaidan and someone will dislike it.

that's the reason why it's always better to have at least two different types of characters to romance. then, there's a higher chance to satisfy a larger group of people.

Modifié par LiaraShepard, 13 février 2012 - 04:15 .

[Collider]

Are we really sure Cortez is only gay? Just as we are unable to determine whether or not Kaidan and Vega will be bi, and as the leaked script was not finished, I think it's a little premature to start saying Cortez is gay only. I'm just afraid many of you will end up disappointed (maybe a bit digusted?) if you find out in the full game that Cortez can be with female Shepard. I think it's best to stay cautious.

It's implied heavily during the strip club scene and banter with Vega. He also had a husband.
Moreover, Sam is lesbian (turns down male Shepard and tells him that she likes women).

If one or the other end bisexual in ME3, then they apparently changed course.

[Finis Valorum]

Asperius wrote...

So in the end in ME universe LGBT = Lesbian as it adds flavour to Universe and wet juvenile boys pants.

//Pessimist mode off

If Nef is any indication even lesbianism probably isn't looked upon all that favourably in the ME universe either, when it comes to non Asari of course.  Even among Asari it seems like they try to avoid it pureblood, cough cough.

So, yeah, the lesbians in ME are more likely then not to be lipstick Lesbians to cater to male fantasies.

I don't know that much about superheroes as it seems to be a largely North American phenomenon but from what I do know, I must say Batman and Robin always seemed highly suspicious to me, especially if you consider the fact that their earliest comics where published at a time when being openly gay was still illegal.

LiaraShepard wrote...

that's the reason why it's always
better to have at least two different types of characters to romance.
then, there's a higher chance to satisfy a larger group of
people.

Or failing that at least make modding relatively easy, I can change Anders or Zevran quite easily to suit my needs (not that i really needed to with Zev apart from some light touch ups). Modding Me2 is really quite a chore though.

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 13 février 2012 - 04:29 .

[Tietj]

What are you talking about now? How if Nef any indication of how anyone views lesbians? And why do you think people feel any particular way about gay men, either? Cortez tells Shepard that he had a husband and it's a nonissue, in fact it is with Vega as well.

[LiaraShepard]

Finis Valorum wrote...

LiaraShepard wrote...

that's the reason why it's always
better to have at least two different types of characters to romance.
then, there's a higher chance to satisfy a larger group of
people.

Or failing that at least make modding relatively easy, I can change Anders or Zevran quite easily to suit my needs (not that i really needed to with Zev apart from some light touch ups). Modding Me2 is really quite a chore though.

lalala, sometimes I wish I had a pc...

[ladyofpayne]

Guys who is our BI? Kaidan or Vega?

[Tietj]

Changing Anders and Zevran to suit your "needs?" What needs would those be?

[Raikas]

How if Nef any indication of how anyone views lesbians?

He probably means the "She's a girl like me/am I a freak?" line, which is a little problematic, I guess - but I don't think it needs to be taken as being about the ME universe as a whole.

[Tietj]

I interpreted that to mean "Am I a freak because I want to have sex WITH AN ALIEN?" And incidentally, the answer is yes.

[LiaraShepard]

Tietj wrote...

I interpreted that to mean "Am I a freak because I want to have sex WITH AN ALIEN?" And incidentally, the answer is yes.

she was worried because morinth was girl like her. that's why she thought to be a freak...not because morinth was an alien.

[Finis Valorum]

Tietj wrote...

Changing Anders and Zevran to suit your "needs?" What needs would those be?

Just making them look the way I want them to, why you don't approve of modding?
I'm hardly the only one to have a slightly different vision of how Anders should look, compared to the DA2 devs, judging by the number of mods out there.
I also liked to dress up my party in ME1 in identical armour to make it look we're part of the same team, but I guess you'd consider that wierd too.
In general I happen to like customizing my things, perhaps that's why I'm a PC gamer.
People like to customize their games, even if only, to make it feel like it's their game in this age where apparently  every game is a glorified rental.

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 13 février 2012 - 07:16 .

[Ziggeh]

SolidBeast wrote...

LiaraShepard wrote...

well, If kaidan was bi there would be at least one dialogue option that refers to his bisexual feelings towards shepard....otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to suddenly fall in love with the same gender.  Even Anders had one line.

See, I don't believe in this in real life and not in games. There is no reason why someone wouldn't suddenly fall in love with the same gender. In fact, there is no reason to think he wasn't bisexual the entire time, just never felt the need to bring it up. He could just say "I have feelings for you", without adding "even though we're both men" - I mean, no ****, Sherlock.

I'm pretty sure gay and bisexual men carry around cards that they hand out when they first meet anyone, declaring their sexuality. I know if one of my friends told me they were gay, I'd laugh and say "You can't be, you never brought it up before now."

[LiaraShepard]

Ziggeh wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

LiaraShepard wrote...

well, If kaidan was bi there would be at least one dialogue option that refers to his bisexual feelings towards shepard....otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to suddenly fall in love with the same gender.  Even Anders had one line.

See, I don't believe in this in real life and not in games. There is no reason why someone wouldn't suddenly fall in love with the same gender. In fact, there is no reason to think he wasn't bisexual the entire time, just never felt the need to bring it up. He could just say "I have feelings for you", without adding "even though we're both men" - I mean, no ****, Sherlock.

I'm pretty sure gay and bisexual men carry around cards that they hand out when they first meet anyone, declaring their sexuality. I know if one of my friends told me they were gay, I'd laugh and say "You can't be, you never brought it up before now."

well, they had not been on ship only one day...mass effect 1 had a story over weeks, months? I don't know. and I didn't say kaidan can't be bisexual. In fact, I want him to swing both ways. I just say I would be suprised to see the other one is bisexual like me. And I think he would be surprised, too.

Modifié par LiaraShepard, 13 février 2012 - 05:03 .

[Finis Valorum]

LiaraShepard wrote...

well, they had not been on ship only one day...mass effect 1 had a story over weeks, months? I don't know. and I didn't say kaidan can't be bisexual. In fact, I want him to swing both ways. I just say I would be suprised to see the other one is bisexual like me. And I think he would be surprised, too.

Precisely and furthermore it seems to me like the expectations of privacy, especially on the Original Normandy were fairly limited, considering everyone but the Captain had to share the same eight or so sleeper pods.

Having Kaidan constantly send out Ho yay to Shep is getting really frustrating at this point, at least for me.
Even if all Kaidan's ambiguously gay signals are the result of him either sharing animations originally meant for Ashley or FemShep with MaleShep, because it allows Bioware to save on resources.

[Ziggeh]

LiaraShepard wrote...
well, they had not been on ship only one day...mass effect 1 was a story about weeks, months? I don't know. and I didn't say kaidan can't be bisexual. In fact, I want him to swing both ways. I just say I would be suprised to see the other one is bisexual like me. And I think he would be surprised, too.

When do you think it would come up? The crews sitting around some sort of holographic entertainment system discussing which member of a popular sitcom they'd "do"? Doesn't strike me as that kind of atmosphere.

I can think of all sorts of reasons for it not coming up, ranging from "just not having talked about it" to "We're military personnel, wouldn't want to complicate command decisions. You might have to decide who to leave to die some time, sir."

[LiaraShepard]

Ziggeh wrote...

LiaraShepard wrote...
well, they had not been on ship only one day...mass effect 1 was a story about weeks, months? I don't know. and I didn't say kaidan can't be bisexual. In fact, I want him to swing both ways. I just say I would be suprised to see the other one is bisexual like me. And I think he would be surprised, too.

When do you think it would come up? The crews sitting around some sort of holographic entertainment system discussing which member of a popular sitcom they'd "do"? Doesn't strike me as that kind of atmosphere.

I can think of all sorts of reasons for it not coming up, ranging from "just not having talked about it" to "We're military personnel, wouldn't want to complicate command decisions. You might have to decide who to leave to die some time, sir."

yes, that's what I mean...It doesn't have to come up...but the longer it's not being spoken the more surprised would I be if the person mentiones it finally.

[Ryzaki]

ReveurIngenu wrote...
Wow, surprised at this agressive reaction.  You should probably take your own advice instead of getting all worked up about something so small.  I was not tyring to imply that "my" society was better than "your" society but simply pointing out the fact that it is quite a simplistic view to believe that everyone would have had sex by 30.

Which would be grand if that was what I said. It wasn't you put words in my mouth and that's why you got such a nasty reaction.

Damned unlikely =! Impossible.  Maybe you should learn the difference.

What I meant to say is that while in modern society, we expect a 30 year old to have had sex, I'm certain there still exists a lot of people that are still virgins at this age.  And my comment about societal pressures to have sex was to illustrate how in western societies, that you are considered a sad case if you still haven't had sex by a certain age (movies like 40 year old virgin; that one Friends episode with the alternate reality, if Rachel had gotten married to Barry, if Monica was still fat, etc), which makes people have sex just for the sake of it (Rachel's "Just do it" comment), and that such pressure is not felt everywhere in the world, thus certainly leading to a higher percentage of 30 year old virgins in the world than you would think.

Your comment (the one I was replying to) clearly indicated that you felt it would be hard for Shepard to be a virgin simply because of his age.  Your next reply (where you constantly tell me to "spare you") is a more thorough explanation of why you feel Shepard would not be a virgin, but this certainly was not a view I could have seen in your "He's 30, how could he still be a virgin" argument.

My reply was simply to say that such a reasoning is quite simplistic.  Don't know how you got a "I'm better than you" interpretation <_<.

Oh for pete's sake. I never ever said Shepard couldn't be a virgin (considering I have Sheps that are virgins) and I didn't appeciate you treating me like a moron that didn't realize that 30 year old virgins exist. Statistically speaking the average person loses their virginity before 30. This accounts for a large amount of people. It's unlikely not impossible. Which is what I said. If you can prove to me more than 20% of people lose their virginity by the age of 30 please do. The stats I was working with said roughly 10 - 15% of people lost their virginity after mid twenties. This is worldwide and not exclusive to my country. It had nothing to do with your needless preaching about my society.

This mixed with Shepard being someone who does have people throw themselves at him/her and yes I'm seeing it damned unlikely that Shepard would remain a virgin.

And again you keep spewing about what I think. That's why you got the aggressive reaction. I don't appreciate being told what the hell I think.

And that's how you get the "I'm better than you." interpretation. But frankly screw this. I'm getting too annoyed at the uppityness I'm reading. Imagined or otherwise.

And on this note this is the last post I type to you. And yes I'm overreacting. Don't give a damn. You win. Enjoy.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 février 2012 - 05:38 .