25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Blacklash93]

Umm... did I miss a fight or something in another thread?

Anyway, as much as I like Kaidan, I don't think he should be made M/M for the sake of fanservice. Not saying it couldn't work, but that it would just feel forced to me. That's just my opinion.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 14 février 2012 - 02:17 .

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...

oh there it is, me being called homophobe. because saying "I'm killing this character unless he's gay" is somehow ok? and

oh, he sucked but now that his textures look nice - gimme, even if i don't care for the character himself, but perfectly good character is bad and insult to people playing gay shep, because I personally don't like the way that character looks?

riiight.

Who called you a homophobe? 

FYI: They're pixels. So yeah...it's perfectly okay to kill them if you don't like them for X reason. Like people kill X because they find him/her annoying or what not. It's a video game. X isn't a real person and threatening to kill them for not conforming to the gamer's wishes isn't hurting a actual person.

Plus 

lucky for you, people like Criz and some of the others are around. 
because DrunkenShepard not getting what he wants also means people who
are actual fans not getting what they want. 

How nice. We should be grateful someone conforms to your standards of what pro m/m people could be because...for some reason apparently.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 février 2012 - 02:20 .

[Blacklash93]

Ryzaki wrote...
FYI: They're pixels. So yeah...it's perfectly okay to kill them if you don't like them for X reason. Like people kill X because they find him/her annoying or what not. It's a video game. X isn't a real person and threatening to kill them for not conforming to the gamer's wishes isn't hurting a actual person.

Finding them annoying is fine, but it is kind of childish to say you're going to kill a character just because they do or don't have some particular trait you want.

Ex: Saying you're going to toss Kaidan out the airlock or bomb him on Virmire just because he isn't bi is just as immature as saying you'd do it because he does turn out to be that way.

[Ryzaki]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Finding them annoying is fine, but it is kind of childish to say you're going to kill a character just because they do or don't have some particular trait you want.

Ex: Saying you're going to toss Kaidan out the airlock or bomb him on Virmire just because he isn't bi is just as immature as saying you'd do it because he does turn out to be that way.

Childish sure. But plenty of people will call us childish for playing games in the first place so *shrugs*. I'm just pointing out why I for one wouldn't make a big deal out of it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 février 2012 - 02:26 .

[SolidBeast]

jeweledleah wrote...

oh there it is, me being called homophobe. because saying "I'm killing this character unless he's gay" is somehow ok? and

I've already said in the other thread, you barge in here and take posts out of context. And you did it again. If you were actually paying any attention to this thread like you claim to, you would have known that there was a person openly saying he was a homophobe earlier in the thread today. And yes, he was being more civil about it than you were when making your point how we deserve nothing because some poster made the mistake of joking with oversensitive fangirls (and by this I mean obviously you and one or two others, not the entire thread).

Modifié par SolidBeast, 14 février 2012 - 02:28 .

[jeweledleah]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
FYI: They're pixels. So yeah...it's perfectly okay to kill them if you don't like them for X reason. Like people kill X because they find him/her annoying or what not. It's a video game. X isn't a real person and threatening to kill them for not conforming to the gamer's wishes isn't hurting a actual person.

Finding them annoying is fine, but it is kind of childish to say you're going to kill a character just because they do or don't have some particular trait you want.

Ex: Saying you're going to toss Kaidan out the airlock or bomb him on Virmire just because he isn't bi is just as immature as saying you'd do it because he does turn out to be that way.

This.

incidentaly if Kaidan IS bi, I'll deal.  I'll fill in the holes with headcanon if necessary.  I won't toss him out the airlock just because he's bi.  I might toss him if they push the distrust issue too much and won't give an option to clear the air properly, especialy if you saved the base.

My Hawkes that killed Anders did it for one reason and one reason only.  he is too dangerous to be alive.  
he said that he will NOT stop his revolution and there was no option to detain him or separate him from Justice.

[Abispa]

Okay... let's... not fight over this. Especially over TWO threads.

[Ryzaki]

@jeweledleah: So I suppose that statement of yours was the height of maturity then?Please please explain to me what you meant by this

lucky for you, people like Criz and some of the others are around.  because DrunkenShepard not getting what he wants also means people who are actual fans not getting what they want.

Why are we lucky? Because they conform to your standards? Why do YOUR standards matter? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 février 2012 - 02:35 .

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...

@jeweledleah: So I suppose that statement of yours was the height of maturity then?Please please explain to me what you meant by this

lucky for you, people like Criz and some of the others are around.  because DrunkenShepard not getting what he wants also means people who are actual fans not getting what they want.

Why are we lucky? Because they conform to your standards? Why do YOUR standards matter? 

no Ryz,  this was me being angry.  all this statement mean is that on a personal level, knowing that people I like will get what they want, even if its not a perfect solution for me, makes less then perfect solution that rewards people I don't like - palatable.  for me.

[ElitePinecone]

Tietj wrote...

As the makers of the game, they have every right to cater to whatever group they want to. If I were given freedom to design my own game, I would cater to gay guys (it wouldn't do so well sales-wise, of course). They don't "owe" anybody anything, and the fact that they decided to include us should be celebrated and lauded, not picked apart with suspicion.

This.

Finis Valorum wrote...

Then again it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Alliance military still operated on some sort of principle of don't ask don't tell.

 

Seriously?!

Cortez is flipping MARRIED. To a MAN. He talks to Vega about it. On Fehl. While they both served there. 

Ryzaki wrote...
Great. They plugged the leak. Meanies. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/surprised.png[/smilie]

 

*shakes fist at Bioware's sensibleness*

BrianWilly wrote...
is it possible that the model used in the demo isn't the one that's going to be used in the final game?  Lots of game demos that I've played use alternate models for convenience or to guard against spoilers; some demos have used completely different characters in place of ones that actually end up in the game lol.  So is it out of the question that the Cortez in the demo isn't the finalized Cortez? (Incidentally, I don't mind Cortez's model aesthetically, I'm just wondering if we might get a more unique face for the guy as opposed to something that could be done in character creation)

 

It's possible, yes, but in my opinion not likely.

Of all the characters to change for spoilers' sake, I really doubt they'd do it for Steve. 

Abispa wrote...

Okay... let's... not fight over this. Especially over TWO threads.

 

Also this. 

[devSin]

SolidBeast wrote...

And yes, he was being more civil about it than you were when making your point how we deserve nothing because some poster made the mistake of joking

I believe the issue is that no such reason for it exists.

They don't want Kaidan to be available as a gay romance option because they don't want him to be available as a gay romance option. It doesn't matter how nice you are, or how mean you are. It simply makes for a convenient retort.

It's childish, and in this case, offensive.

I support you playing your game the way you want, and having access to all the choices that will make you most happy. There is not a single person or group of people on this forum that can change that. There are some people here whose posts I could clearly forgo, but I hope even they are able to experience the game in the way that matters most to them.

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...
no Ryz,  this was me being angry.  all this statement mean is that on a personal level, knowing that people I like will get what they want, even if its not a perfect solution for me, makes less then perfect solution that rewards people I don't like - palatable.  for me.

Frankly I typed up several reponses but all of them were rather unnecessary so I'll just keep it short.

That's not really to me at least a higher maturity level then killing a character for the inability to romance them. Might just be me.

Plus...why is that "lucky for me?" if you had just said luckily that would've made far more sense. Or "Lucky for me" (with me being you the poster). As it is it reads like you're going well lucky for you that I find members of your group more acceptable to me. And...yeah it's just plain weird. It's not like you're a dev or anything to be saying that.

And yes I fully admit to that when I feel the same way about the people who don't want Kaidan to be bi and hope he is bi just to irk some of them. I fully admit my childishness, selfishness and immaturity though.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 février 2012 - 02:54 .

[SolidBeast]

Abispa wrote...

Okay... let's... not fight over this. Especially over TWO threads.

Why not? Arguing is human nature. If I think I'm right, I will damn well say so. If it's relevant to the topic and it's within site rules, it's fair game. I can't believe some people expect me to walk on ice just in case random stranger #42309 is an oversensitive snowflake. I don't let entitlement slide in real life and I won't let it slide online.

[SolidBeast]

devSin wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

And yes, he was being more civil about it than you were when making your point how we deserve nothing because some poster made the mistake of joking

I believe the issue is that no such reason for it exists.

They don't want Kaidan to be available as a gay romance option because they don't want him to be available as a gay romance option. It doesn't matter how nice you are, or how mean you are. It simply makes for a convenient retort.

It's childish, and in this case, offensive.

I support you playing your game the way you want, and having access to all the choices that will make you most happy. There is not a single person or group of people on this forum that can change that. There are some people here whose posts I could clearly forgo, but I hope even they are able to experience the game in the way that matters most to them.

Exactly.

[Abispa]

Ryzaki wrote...

And yes I fully admit to that when I feel the same way about the people who don't want Kaidan to be bi and hope he is bi just to irk some of them. I fully admit my childishness, selfishness and immaturity though.

I wanted him to be "bi" because 1) he already had a sizable s/s fanbase, and 2) a personal belief that Mass Effect has TOO MANY DAMN LIs already. For all the complaints from s/s critics about "teh ghays" turning Mass Effect 3 into a dating simulator, the "straight lovers" have spent YEARS foaming at the mouth over who's the hottest ME babe/hunk and are now complaining that their chosen ones aren't getting enough screen time in ME3.

IF Bioware actually manages to do the unlikely and create over a dozen well-written ME romances, it will be helped by the fact that ME is theoretically ONE game in three parts. I'll admit it  if I'm proven wrong, but I think the DA2 method provides the best (imperfect) fix for game designers trying to give the most choices with limited resources. After all, I want the LIs to be a MINOR part of an entertaining action/adventure game.

[Tietj]

Guys (and gals), there is way too much hostility in this thread, to each other and to Bioware... With a few, transient exceptions, we all want s/s options in ME3 and, in one way or another, we're getting that option! We should be happily talking about the possibilities and ramifications, not arguing over whether we want Kaidan or Vega or Steve, or whether the fewer number of options for m/m is a sign of some conspiracy against gay people, or whether we think talking to Steve is icky and unless we can tell every single character in the game that we're gay and need some personal space, the developers have somehow failed us. Look, we may or may not be satisfied with the way things are implemented. That's true in every game; I, for one, would have liked the option in ME2 to tell Cerberus to go soak their heads and then to have Shepard defect to the Alliance. And an option to tell Jack to quit whining and put on some clothes would have been nice, too. I didn't get those options, and I just had to accept that. Let's not fight with each other when we all basically want the same thing, and let's not criticize the development team simply because what they gave us was implemented in a way that we didn't like in some small way.

[Game_Fan_85]

Wait, people are ****ing whinging and moaning because everyone playing ME3 might get to experience the storyline of a character they like? Seriously? That is beyond pathetic. I will never understand how people think it will affect their game and experience simply because they know what might be happening in some other player's "ME world". Some people really need a life and a brain. My Hawke was always with Anders, am I supposed to be offended because I know he is with a WOMAN in another player's world? Or that people have killed him off? Sheesh.

Tietj wrote...
 I, for one, would have liked the option in ME2
to tell Cerberus to go soak their heads and then to have Shepard defect
to the Alliance. And an option to tell Jack to quit whining and put on
some clothes would have been nice, too. 

At least the second outfit had, you know, a shirt.

Modifié par Game_Fan_85, 14 février 2012 - 03:45 .

[coldSnap]

Tietj wrote...

Guys (and gals), there is way too much hostility in this thread, to each other and to Bioware... With a few, transient exceptions, we all want s/s options in ME3 and, in one way or another, we're getting that option! We should be happily talking about the possibilities and ramifications, not arguing over whether we want Kaidan or Vega or Steve, or whether the fewer number of options for m/m is a sign of some conspiracy against gay people, or whether we think talking to Steve is icky and unless we can tell every single character in the game that we're gay and need some personal space, the developers have somehow failed us. Look, we may or may not be satisfied with the way things are implemented. That's true in every game; I, for one, would have liked the option in ME2 to tell Cerberus to go soak their heads and then to have Shepard defect to the Alliance. And an option to tell Jack to quit whining and put on some clothes would have been nice, too. I didn't get those options, and I just had to accept that. Let's not fight with each other when we all basically want the same thing, and let's not criticize the development team simply because what they gave us was implemented in a way that we didn't like in some small way.

Agreed. Arguing definitely wont get anyone what they want, since the game is coming out in about 2 weeks, what will be will be. I think that we should be happy the BioWare even gave us the option. I wanted to m/m romance at least one guy in ME2 but was unable to, so the fact that BioWare took the time to give us all m/m romance is good enough for me.

And if the leaked dialogue is any indication of how Steve is going to be portrayed, then I'm pretty content. But I will; however, will remain otimistic for s/s Kaidan (or even Vega).

Lets all just stop the arguments and just get back to topic. Loving the fact that BW finally gave us m/m romance option(s).

[syllogi]

Game_Fan_85 wrote...

Wait, people are ****ing whinging and moaning because everyone playing ME3 might get to experience the storyline of a character they like? Seriously? That is beyond pathetic. I will never understand how people think it will affect their game and experience simply because they know what might be happening in some other player's "ME world". Some people really need a life and a brain. My Hawke was always with Anders, am I supposed to be offended because I know he is with a WOMAN in another player's world? Or that people have killed him off? Sheesh.

That's basically how I feel.  I'm one of those crazy "everyone should be Bi" proponents.  Partially because I'm bisexual myself, and partially because I just always want things to be fair...and it seems "fair" to me to let people choose LIs based on their personalities, rather than their gender.

Sex/race/other defining characteristics doesn't matter to me, as much as personality.  I can't call myself pansexual, because I honestly don't know if I am, but it genuinely offends me when people call bisexuality "unrealistic" or make silly arguments about how bisexual characters can't be faithful or spiritual or whatever other preconceived notions people have.

Personally, I first identified as lesbian in college, and lost almost all of my friends when I started dating a guy.  So I know for a fact that prejudice against bisexuals goes both ways.  And yeah, boohoo to me for having more choice, but at the same time, I feel like when I disclose my sexual identity to any new partner, whether male or female, I'm risking losing them, because they might think I'm promiscuous or flighty, because of who I am.

And for the record, I LOATHE talking about my personal experience on this subject.  But tonight I felt like sharing.

[ElitePinecone]

Oh, I forgot to add before...

That lady at the start of the ME3 demo wasn't Samantha, it was a random Alliance soldier/admin person.

Samantha (like Steve) is only introduced on the Normandy.

[Ricvenart]

syllogi wrote...

I don't want to constantly pull out my "credentials" when it comes to the s/s issue...(snip)

I wasn't really talking about you, just using you're analogy, probably a bad choice on my behalf that may have made it seem otherwise.

I can and can't say more then that, I've typed and deleted so many paragraphs now, leave it as the creditials of yours aren't my issue neither are you, and the thread on a whole I have no problem with in theory but seeing some of the "beliefs" of those in it, it's not one I'd want to hang round to read again. Not when "my kind" is so much less "deserving"  then others and discussion on Kaidan possibly being bi equals complaining (putting it nicely) about something that "doesn't matter".

When ever I have brought it up I've always tried to be fair about it, if someone says Kaidan couldn't possibly be bi then I will try to give a reasonable list of he could be, how the story would work, why it wasn't available in the first game, how events in his history and future are open to interpertation and above all ultimately "my" Kaidan isn't "thiers", just because he's ME3 he enters a relationship with a man in my universe it doesn't make him dump their girl in thiers.

I'm just going to leave it at that, tired of deleting stuff now.

I agree with you on the Bi thing (not bi though myself) although some reasons being different, thats a discussion for another time though.

Modifié par Ricvenart, 14 février 2012 - 04:42 .

[FFWarQueen]

Wow what's with all the fighting!? First I go in the Kaidan thread and see it, now I come in here and find it. Let's not fight, spread the love instead

Edit: Oh btw I really like Steve's look, my manshep would definitely *hit* that lol, and if James and Kaidan are avaliable same goes for them, the more the merrier I say!

Modifié par FFWarQueen, 14 février 2012 - 04:26 .

[Game_Fan_85]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Oh, I forgot to add before...

That lady at the start of the ME3 demo wasn't Samantha, it was a random Alliance soldier/admin person.

Samantha (like Steve) is only introduced on the Normandy.

Wasn't that Steve sitting in the background at a computer when she was speaking both before and after Sheard enters the conference room or whatever it is?  It sure looked like him.

Modifié par Game_Fan_85, 14 février 2012 - 04:40 .

[BrianWilly]

Let me preface this by saying that I would have no problems if Ash or Kaidan were bi, and I understand and agree with the arguments explaining why they should/could be.

That being said, I would find it kind of problematic if every single love interest in ME was bi.  Because then it'd be like...well, where are the straight characters?  Hell, where are the gay characters? I don't have any straight or gay friends on this ship? "Bisexual" is a valid sexual identity onto itself, it's not some sort of magical Megazord amalgamation of a straight person and a gay person, nor is it automatically interchangeable with all other queer sexual orientations, and so I do find it a bit unnerving to depict bisexuality as a simple game design compromise in order to allow as many demographics to romance a single character as you can.

In DA2, yeah okay, four of your comrades just happen to be bi, that works out okay and nearly isn't nearly strange as some detractors have tried to make it out to be, plus there was Sebastian anyway.  But by the end of ME3 we'll be up to thirteen different LIs, and for literally every single one of them to be bisexual just pushes it to the point where you have to wonder where everyone else is.  I wouldn't be down with that kind of setting.  I know that people hate the "realism" argument for one reason or another.  But the fact is that there are straight people in the world, and there are gay people in the world, and there are bisexual people in the world, and there are trans people in the world, and so on and so forth.  And -- in my opinion -- the more of that kind of diversity is represented, the more engaging and immersive your game world is.
<3

Modifié par BrianWilly, 14 février 2012 - 05:08 .

[Abispa]

@ BrianWilly -- I would prefer a fewer number of "hero-sexual" (not the same as "all bi" -- Anders and Isabela were "bi" and the Elves were "hero-sexual") LIs with more interaction than a huge case of LIs tailored exclusively for various sexual persuasions and moral sensibilities. Bioware has yet to show that it can supply quality with quantity of LIs. Maybe ME3 will prove me wrong. If so, I'll admit it.

Modifié par Abispa, 14 février 2012 - 05:14 .