25715 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

XX55XX wrote...
I hope the other romances (Ashley, Kaidan, Garrus, Thane, Jacob) remain heterosexual, since there isn't evidence from previous games to suggest that they are bisexual.

Kaidan tells ManShep losing him was felt like losing a limb and screams at Shep for not calling him

[AngelicMachinery]

Its always nice to see that girls can be retconned into being bi, but it's an issue for a male.

[XX55XX]

IsaacShep wrote...

XX55XX wrote...
I hope the other romances (Ashley, Kaidan, Garrus, Thane, Jacob) remain heterosexual, since there isn't evidence from previous games to suggest that they are bisexual.

Kaidan tells ManShep losing him was felt like losing a limb and screams at Shep for not calling him

I think that was more love between comrades in arms more than anything. Could be interpreted in various ways. 

[XX55XX]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Its always nice to see that girls can be retconned into being bi, but it's an issue for a male.

I'm just going by what the games tell me. Tali and Jack could be bisexual, but the others cannot be bent that way, given lack of evidence in previous games.

They should just make Joker gay and toss that as an option for gentlemen...

[AngelicMachinery]

XX55XX wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Its always nice to see that girls can be retconned into being bi, but it's an issue for a male.

I'm just going by what the games tell me. Tali and Jack could be bisexual, but the others cannot be bent that way, given lack of evidence in previous games.

They should just make Joker gay and toss that as an option for gentlemen...

There is enough ambiguity for most characters to be bisexual.

[XX55XX]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Its always nice to see that girls can be retconned into being bi, but it's an issue for a male.

I'm just going by what the games tell me. Tali and Jack could be bisexual, but the others cannot be bent that way, given lack of evidence in previous games.

They should just make Joker gay and toss that as an option for gentlemen...

There is enough ambiguity for most characters to be bisexual.

And yet, no homosexual romances from the gate for ME2? 

They should have did it then, or else we probably wouldn't be having this conversation now. Hell, they even recorded the dialogue!

My opinion stands, but it's up to BioWare, ultimately. They wrote the game. 

[shepskisaac]

XX55XX wrote...
I think that was more love between comrades in arms more than anything. Could be interpreted in various ways.

Ashley's line in that scene is more like comrades in arms thing, she says: "I thought you were gone… I… you were more than our commander" while Kaidan says "Thinking you were gone... was like losing a limb". Not to mention Kaidan's screaming much louder at poor Shep than Ash who was usually the one not to hold back what she thinks

XX55XX wrote...
They should just make Joker gay and toss that as an option for gentlemen...

Yeah, awesome, the only m/m option being non-squadmate secondary character compared to all the perma-squad main LIs of other players.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 18 juin 2011 - 10:07 .

[Psychotic Killer Cheeseburger]

ah, forgetting that kaidan and ashley were initially intended to be romancable by both m and f PC's and that a lot of fans have been raging since ME 1 that they want them back as s/s romances, so i'd say that the VSs are the most likely old LI's to be open for s/s in ME 3, miri is a bit unlikely, i'll give you that, tali is also per your reasoning a good candidate, jack however not that much, since she imo clearly rebuffes advances by femsheps with her "girlsclub comment"

[XX55XX]

IsaacShep wrote...

XX55XX wrote...
I think that was more love between comrades in arms more than anything. Could be interpreted in various ways.

Ashley's line in that scene is more like comrades in arms thing, she says: "I thought you were gone… I… you were more than our commander" while Kaidan says "Thinking you were gone... was like losing a limb". Not to mention Kaidan's screaming much louder at poor Shep than Ash who was usually the one not to hold back what she thinks

XX55XX wrote...
They should just make Joker gay and toss that as an option for gentlemen...

Yeah, awesome, the only m/m option being non-squadmate secondary character compared to all the perma-squad main LIs of other players.

You just proven to me my Ashley can't be bisexual. Thank you. As for Kaidan, you could be right. We'll see. 

[Siansonea]

To be honest, the "losing a limb" line definitely made me think "oh really now..." I definitely wondered which limb he was talkin' about. Of course, of my five Shepards that have Kaidan as VS, only one male and one female were squeeing inside. The other male and one of the other two females were just friends with Kaidan, and the other female had "hit it and quit it".

[Siansonea]

XX55XX wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

XX55XX wrote...
I think that was more love between comrades in arms more than anything. Could be interpreted in various ways.

Ashley's line in that scene is more like comrades in arms thing, she says: "I thought you were gone… I… you were more than our commander" while Kaidan says "Thinking you were gone... was like losing a limb". Not to mention Kaidan's screaming much louder at poor Shep than Ash who was usually the one not to hold back what she thinks

XX55XX wrote...
They should just make Joker gay and toss that as an option for gentlemen...

Yeah, awesome, the only m/m option being non-squadmate secondary character compared to all the perma-squad main LIs of other players.

You just proven to me my Ashley can't be bisexual. Thank you. As for Kaidan, you could be right. We'll see. 

To be fair, there's no proving or disproving to be had here. We can share what we think we know based on what the characters say, but we all interpret everything differently. Many people interpret Jack's infamous "girl's club" line as a definitive slamming of the s/s door, but other people interpret it as her not wanting to be BFFs with FemShep and talk about boys and makeup. It's all subjective.

[The Twilight God]

IsaacShep wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...
The same could be said about Kaidan and polls being influenced by straight females.

Except that there's much more male players in general on the boards (thus more gay/bi guys) compared to the number of girls (thus less lesbian/bi girls) so straight guys influence female s/s LI polls much more than straight females influence male s/s LI polls.

Male players typically leave Kaidan to die on Virmire and aren't interested in making out with another male character. You have to remember that this would be a poll for people who want m/m romance. It's not like every single player is required to vote on this regardless of sexual orientation. I have no clue how many females post on this forum. I know it is generally accepted that there are more male gamers than female gamers. But forumites? I have no clue on those percentages. I'm willing to bet there are alot more heterosexual females posting here than homosexual males so straight females could definitely effect the numbers of a m/m romance poll. Homosexuals are a very small minority.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

CalamityRanger wrote...

There is so much truth to both yours and Maria's posts. I know a lot of people seem to dislike the fact that all the LI were bisexual in DA2 but honestly it's something I greatly appreciated. I didn't know it til chapter 2, so I automatically went with Isabela because I knew she was an F/F option. Come to find out Merrill was also interested in my LadyHawke and not only did that make me so happy because I knew I'd have more than one choice, but it also meant I had something to look forward to on future playthroughs. There are more potential LIs in ME3 so I'm not exactly saying every one of them should be bisexual, but giving us a choice would be wonderful. I have multiple FemSheps, and I can't make *all* of them loyal to Liara (granted I didn't, I do have one not involved with her romantically so that I can see what the consequences are for "cheating" on an ME1 LI, so that falls on Kaidan XP) because there wouldn't be any variety in my playthroughs. If I have multiple options to continue on with my Sheps of varying personalities, I'll be quite the happy camper.

I was expecting Isabela to be the only f/f option based on the way other bioware games worked. I like Isabela but once I realised Merrill was a s/s option I had to choose her. It was very cool to have a choice out of two lovely women that I like for pretty much the opposite reasons. It added replayability to DA2 for me. I don't get the complaint about everyone being bisexual, I never took it that way. To me in my first DA2 playthrough Isabela was bisexual, Merrill was gay while Aveline, Varric, Fenris and Anders were straight and in game there was nothing to prove me wrong. Just because something happens in someone elses game doesn't make it so in mine.

[shepskisaac]

elektrego wrote...
She says that to every Shepard who hasn't romanced her in ME1, male and female. So by your logic, he just proved Ashley is asexual.

Haha nice one!

The Twilight God wrote...
Male players typically leave Kaidan to die on Virmire and aren't interested in making out with another male character. You have to remember that this would be a poll for people who want m/m romance. It's not like every single player is required to vote on this regardless of sexual orientation. I have no clue how many females post on this forum. I know it is generally accepted that there are more male gamers than female gamers. But forumites? I have no clue on those percentages. I'm willing to bet there are alot more heterosexual females posting here than homosexual males so straight females could definitely effect the numbers of a m/m romance poll. Homosexuals are a very small minority.

Guys 2/3, girls 1/3

And yes, there are more straight females than gay guys, but not as much to influence voting significantly, since the number of gay guys is raised by the fact there's more males in general. One way or another, the fact straight guys outnumber gay/bi girls several times compared to straight girls outnumbering gay/bi guys is beyond any doubt.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 18 juin 2011 - 10:29 .

[Psychotic Killer Cheeseburger]

*big thumbs up*

and again i'm saying this: everybody deserves to have the choice for His or her character, no matter what everyone else thinks

i for one don't get what all of find so great about kaidan, i killed him of at virmire every single time, doesn't mean i'll go around trying to flame people for liking him.

same with the romances:  you don't like'em, just don't play'em, THEY'RE OPTIONAL!!!!!!

[Terror330]

Personally, I can't imagine Kaidan being bi and Ashley not. It just doesn't make sense to have one VS be bi, and another not. They were both hetero options in the first game, so logic says there is a good chance they'd both remain hetero options. However, if Kaidan was bi, and Ashley wasn't I would be very confused. I think either they are both bi or they are both hetero. The VS acts the same way. Both say you should have saved the other person, both become spectres, and both get upset with Shepard for working with Cerberus. They act the same way. I realize that doesn't have anything to do with sexuality, but it shows that they essentially are handled the same way, which is why I think they will continue to be handled the same as LI's. I have no problem with them becoming bi options, but if they are, I think both will be. I don't think it would be just one of them.

[Psychotic Killer Cheeseburger]

nobody said that only one of'em would be bi, although you'd have to say, from respective shepard's POV, they would be gay in the event of a s/s romance, since they then never had the "normal" straight romance with shep..

[Siansonea]

Terror330 wrote...

Personally, I can't imagine Kaidan being bi and Ashley not. It just doesn't make sense to have one VS be bi, and another not. They were both hetero options in the first game, so logic says there is a good chance they'd both remain hetero options. However, if Kaidan was bi, and Ashley wasn't I would be very confused. I think either they are both bi or they are both hetero. The VS acts the same way. Both say you should have saved the other person, both become spectres, and both get upset with Shepard for working with Cerberus. They act the same way. I realize that doesn't have anything to do with sexuality, but it shows that they essentially are handled the same way, which is why I think they will continue to be handled the same as LI's. I have no problem with them becoming bi options, but if they are, I think both will be. I don't think it would be just one of them.

Kaidan and Ashley are two DIFFERENT characters. The artificial "sameness" of them on Horizon is irritating to say the least, and should NOT be a mandate for the characters going forward. If Ashley says the same exact lines in ME3 that Kaidan does, I will facepalm repeatedly. Likewise, character traits like sexuality aren't "VS" specific, it would be as unrealistic as Kaidan suddenly being religious and having three sisters named Abby, Lynn and Sarah or Ashley having an unresolved attachment to a girl named Rhana as a teen on Jump Zero/Brain Camp. Ashley and Kaidan may fill the same "role" in the game, but they are still different characters, not some weird quantum character.

[Terror330]

Siansonea II wrote...

Terror330 wrote...

Personally, I can't imagine Kaidan being bi and Ashley not. It just doesn't make sense to have one VS be bi, and another not. They were both hetero options in the first game, so logic says there is a good chance they'd both remain hetero options. However, if Kaidan was bi, and Ashley wasn't I would be very confused. I think either they are both bi or they are both hetero. The VS acts the same way. Both say you should have saved the other person, both become spectres, and both get upset with Shepard for working with Cerberus. They act the same way. I realize that doesn't have anything to do with sexuality, but it shows that they essentially are handled the same way, which is why I think they will continue to be handled the same as LI's. I have no problem with them becoming bi options, but if they are, I think both will be. I don't think it would be just one of them.

Kaidan and Ashley are two DIFFERENT characters. The artificial "sameness" of them on Horizon is irritating to say the least, and should NOT be a mandate for the characters going forward. If Ashley says the same exact lines in ME3 that Kaidan does, I will facepalm repeatedly. Likewise, character traits like sexuality aren't "VS" specific, it would be as unrealistic as Kaidan suddenly being religious and having three sisters named Abby, Lynn and Sarah or Ashley having an unresolved attachment to a girl named Rhana as a teen on Jump Zero/Brain Camp. Ashley and Kaidan may fill the same "role" in the game, but they are still different characters, not some weird quantum character.

They have different lines, and they have different personalities. I totally agree, and yes they are obviously two different characters.  However, they have handled every situation after the Virmire incident in practically in the same exact way.  This is undeniable.  The only difference is Kaidan is more paragon and Ashley is more renegade in terms of personality.  I never said they were the same, but I doubt you will see a dramatic difference between saving Kaidan over Ashley.  Obviously I expect different lines and maybe they might have a different mission attached to them, if they have something like that.  But in terms of the romance?  What was different about their romances in Mass Effect 1?  I'm sure they'll both have different lines, and have different cutsceenes but what makes Kaidan so more likely to be bi then Ash?  Nothing really.  I just believe you have to look at this from a coding perspective.  There probably will not be a huge difference between the two of them other then lines and there personality.  They haven't shown they are going to be handled any differently so far.

I agree that I don't want the characters to feel the same, but I'm expecting that they will feel the same.

[The Twilight God]

IsaacShep wrote...

elektrego wrote...
She says that to every Shepard who hasn't romanced her in ME1, male and female. So by your logic, he just proved Ashley is asexual.

Haha nice one!

The Twilight God wrote...
Male players typically leave Kaidan to die on Virmire and aren't interested in making out with another male character. You have to remember that this would be a poll for people who want m/m romance. It's not like every single player is required to vote on this regardless of sexual orientation. I have no clue how many females post on this forum. I know it is generally accepted that there are more male gamers than female gamers. But forumites? I have no clue on those percentages. I'm willing to bet there are alot more heterosexual females posting here than homosexual males so straight females could definitely effect the numbers of a m/m romance poll. Homosexuals are a very small minority.

Guys 2/3, girls 1/3

And yes, there are more straight females than gay guys, but not as much to influence voting significantly, since the number of gay guys is raised by the fact there's more males in general. One way or another, the fact straight guys outnumber gay/bi girls several times compared to straight girls outnumbering gay/bi guys is beyond any doubt.

IsaacShep, I don't think you quite grasp just how small the percentage of homosexuals are. Even if there were 10 males for every female, there would still probably be more female posters than homosexual male posters. Even San Francisco, a "gay mecca", only has a 16% gay population. The national average is about 3% rounding up.

You have roughly 3000 people voting on that poll. Even if 15% of the male participants were gay that would only be 300 gay males to 850 straight females. Realistically, using a 3% male - 1.5% female model it would be 60 gay males to 985 straight females or roughly Straight Girls 19/20, Gay Guys 1/20.

See where I'm coming from?

I think it is very possible that females can effect m/m poll numbers just as much as males can effect f/f romances. But I'll give you this; More men play femshep than women who play maleshep (at least I think so) and have more of a vested interest in more f/f romances. So on that note, the amount of opposite sex influence could be greater on the f/f side.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 18 juin 2011 - 11:26 .

[Comsky159]

XX55XX wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Its always nice to see that girls can be retconned into being bi, but it's an issue for a male.

I'm just going by what the games tell me. Tali and Jack could be bisexual, but the others cannot be bent that way, given lack of evidence in previous games.

They should just make Joker gay and toss that as an option for gentlemen...

There is enough ambiguity for most characters to be bisexual.

And yet, no homosexual romances from the gate for ME2? 

They should have did it then, or else we probably wouldn't be having this conversation now. Hell, they even recorded the dialogue!

My opinion stands, but it's up to BioWare, ultimately. They wrote the game. 

^This probably summates where I stand as well.

[Siansonea]

Terror330 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Terror330 wrote...

Personally, I can't imagine Kaidan being bi and Ashley not. It just doesn't make sense to have one VS be bi, and another not. They were both hetero options in the first game, so logic says there is a good chance they'd both remain hetero options. However, if Kaidan was bi, and Ashley wasn't I would be very confused. I think either they are both bi or they are both hetero. The VS acts the same way. Both say you should have saved the other person, both become spectres, and both get upset with Shepard for working with Cerberus. They act the same way. I realize that doesn't have anything to do with sexuality, but it shows that they essentially are handled the same way, which is why I think they will continue to be handled the same as LI's. I have no problem with them becoming bi options, but if they are, I think both will be. I don't think it would be just one of them.

Kaidan and Ashley are two DIFFERENT characters. The artificial "sameness" of them on Horizon is irritating to say the least, and should NOT be a mandate for the characters going forward. If Ashley says the same exact lines in ME3 that Kaidan does, I will facepalm repeatedly. Likewise, character traits like sexuality aren't "VS" specific, it would be as unrealistic as Kaidan suddenly being religious and having three sisters named Abby, Lynn and Sarah or Ashley having an unresolved attachment to a girl named Rhana as a teen on Jump Zero/Brain Camp. Ashley and Kaidan may fill the same "role" in the game, but they are still different characters, not some weird quantum character.

They have different lines, and they have different personalities. I totally agree, and yes they are obviously two different characters.  However, they have handled every situation after the Virmire incident in practically in the same exact way.  This is undeniable.  The only difference is Kaidan is more paragon and Ashley is more renegade in terms of personality.  I never said they were the same, but I doubt you will see a dramatic difference between saving Kaidan over Ashley.  Obviously I expect different lines and maybe they might have a different mission attached to them, if they have something like that.  But in terms of the romance?  What was different about their romances in Mass Effect 1?  I'm sure they'll both have different lines, and have different cutsceenes but what makes Kaidan so more likely to be bi then Ash?  Nothing really.  I just believe you have to look at this from a coding perspective.  There probably will not be a huge difference between the two of them other then lines and there personality.  They haven't shown they are going to be handled any differently so far.

I agree that I don't want the characters to feel the same, but I'm expecting that they will feel the same.

I won't ever look at this from a coding perspective. I understand that is a factor in BioWare's decision making, but it is NOT a factor for me or my preferences for character development. It may well be that they'll be a quantum character like Shepard in ME3, but I will be disappointed if that's the case. But you raise the point that after Virmire, their actions are very nearly the same. Well, other than the optional romance with Shepard (which plays out differently for each of them), they haven't been seen in situations related to romance. We've only seen them 'on duty'. Of COURSE their actions would play out similarly—they are both acting as Alliance soldiers, and as such there is a clear mandate as to what their duty is. They've both shown themselves to be exemplary Alliance soldiers, so it's highly unlikely one of them would act against the Alliance's interests in a given situation. So they're following Shepard's orders on Ilos/the Citadel if they're in Shepard's squad, and they show up on Horizon—that's the sum total of their "solo" interaction outside of the pre-Ilos romance sequence. So the idea that they ought to both be bisexual or neither may be a metagame/coding issue, but in no way should it be considered a character issue, in my opinion.

[Genly]

Subject Alpha wrote...

 Did somebody say....
JOKER?

[snip]

Thanks for that!!!

Now I wish for an image where Shepard is carrying Joker by lifting him... you know, with an arm under his back and th other under his knees...

[Terror330]

@Siansonea II

I agree that coding should not be the primary factor in building a character, but it's already been done. Look at both of them becoming Spectre's. Ashley's family has pretty much been blacklisted and that still happened? In a game of this size there is a good chance coding is going to come into play. It may not be popular, but it's the unfortunate reality. Either way there is still nothing to go off of to determine either ones sexuality, other then there actions in the first game. Personally, I think it's easier to make them both hetero, but Kaidan fans want him bi and there are Ash fans that want her bi. Neither one of the characters have done, or said anything to definitively to indicate they are bi. The BW writers are going to have to write something in either way to make them work as s/s LI's if that's BW's decision. Some may take the "losing a limb" line as a sign Kaidan is interested in maleshep. Some may take, "you were more then our commander" from Ash as a sign she's interested in femshep. Nobody knows, what the characters are really getting at, we're all speculating. Right now, all we really know is they both like the opposite sex. Both Kaidan and Ashley would have to something written into their backstory for a bi romance to work. If they both went for s/s Shep for the same exact reasoning I wouldn't be very happy. I think that's what you're afraid of, and I agree they shouldn't be handled in exactly the same way, but it doesn't mean they couldn't have the same feelings, and just express them in different ways. I think if both were bi options they'd both have different reasons for wanting Shep. In all honesty though, it would just be so much easier if they were both hetero.