25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Unbannable]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Women as the entitled ones, two women no less oh my how the tables have turned and the might have fallen!  I feel awful, really I do.  I'm gonna cry you guys a river! :innocent:

If you think Bioware included so many F/F romances for gay women like you, then think again

Gay women are the smallest minority of all Bioware's fan/consumer base after all. 

[Frozen83]

corky_g wrote...
I just wish I could remember more of them. Kaidan, I love you... but why do ya gotta be such a **** tease!

"I thought you died. I felt like loosing a limb!"; I mean, who speaks like that? And especially after TWO years... And I presume, many other dead people.

Plus, when Liara comes on Normandy, Ash is really jelaous of her. But after Shepard asks Kaidan if he finds her cute or something he just said "No, just estetic appreciation.". Or similar. And again, when he talks about his time in BAaT, if you suggest he was intimate with that girl after the lights went out (renegade), he would be like "Errrm, juck, commander. How can you even suggest this? It was not like that.". How many teenagers do you know who wouldn't take the opportunity? I remember thinking 'Aha, a **** hag to play cards with!'.

BTW, I think Liara's boobs are becoming bigger with each game ... Or am I imagining ? M.

[corky_g]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I think it's a legitimate thing to talk about; if we're wondering about options (or the lack of options) it's probably good to question why they're here now, why they weren't there before, and how to make sure they're more likely in future projects.

But one thing though - this is the fourth or fifth time I've said it, but Bioware's staff are (generally) some of the most liberal people *evar*. Producers, managers, writers, exeutives - they all regularly blog and tweet about causes like feminism or lgbt rights. Not just in the Dragon Age team, but also among many of ME's staff.  

So as much as we get frustrated with the ridiculous answers to questions (Shepard is a pre-defined character with a pre-defined view!), I'd suggest it's more likely to be other pressures (the publisher, time constraints, a scared executive team, retailers) and not the fault of the writers or designers that there's been an absence of s/s. 

More likely it was a business decision (the target market would run screaming from the room if an m/m romance was in the game) and not a deliberate slight. 

Admittedly, I don't follow tweets, or that sort of thing. The only information I get concerning BW staff are from second-hand sources, when being discussed by regular people like in this forum. I difinetely get the impression that BW staff are liberal, and I don't believe in the slightest that any ommision was a [purposeful] slight against us. I highly doubt that the creatives would shy away from m/m, and I agree that the decision to omit would be top-level for business reasons alone.

Oh, and I'm not the type of person who believes that gay characters/content needs to be in every game (or any for that matter), because for most games, it wouldn't make sense, or would feel forced. But one correction regarding your comment: there was s/s, just not m/m, and that disparity is partly what makes me so angry about the whole mess.

This was my path of discovery/rage after playing ME1:
- Find out mShep can't romance Kaidan: oh well, you can't have everything in life
- Find out f/f was present: what? that hardly seems fair
- Liara doesn't count as s/s because <verbal gymnastics>: well that's bull****
- Shepard is defined and can't be gay: double bull****! especially since ME is supposedly about choices; you can play as a woman; choose different backgrounds, etc
- Find out m/m dialogue was present on the disc: so it appears m/m was present but later cut... now I'm mad
- Time constraints: triple bull****! playing as male or female, the dialogue with Kaidan is 99.9% the same, and in an 80 hour game they couldn't finish a 2 min m/m scene (or even do an embrace-fade to black)?

There is no reason that m/m content needs to be in any game. But with ME, given all of the above, I get the impression that it was purposefully excluded at some point. The real question in my mind is, was that decision internal (BW), or
external (in this case, MS). Given BW's liberal-ness, this is why I lean
toward MS being the culprit. And I'm not trying to build a case against MS, because again, just speculation on my part. It's just... none of the explanations really add up for me.

In fact, having rehashed all this, I realize it's all Liara's fault! I love ME, and could have played through a trilogy none-the-wiser, but Liara's inclusion is what tipped the balance

Ultimately, they've become more inclusive for part 3, which imo is great in-and-of itself. We'll just have to wait to see how great it turns out.

/end therepeutic rant

[Collider]

alexdrake wrote...
Damn...well that bites...I think I'm going to drown my sorrows now and try to forget I ever fell for Vega.

Worth noting that they didn't have Vega's actual romance written yet. However, that didn't stop them for having Vega compare female Shepard to sexy women.
I think Vega could very well be that straight bro character for Shepard - that guy who talks about hot chicks with you.

As for Kaidan...Isaac mentions that his VA says that he thinks Kaidan's available for male Shepard - but those statements were made before the leak - yet at best there's some gender neutral dialog in the script and everything else is female specific. So there's either some delay in inputting those lines Rapheal allegedly recorded, or it's probably not going to happen.

Voice actors don't necessarily know the context for which they're voicing the lines in. I believe a few ME voice actors have essentially said that. They had to play the game to know the story and where their lines actually ended up. Before that, they can only guess a lot of the time. Sbarge could easily be misinterpreting what he's been told or what he's been voicing.

Right now I'd say Kaidan has a better chance than Vega. However, it's not truly great chances, imo.

"I thought you died. I felt like loosing a limb!"; I mean, who speaks
like that? And especially after TWO years... And I presume, many other
dead people.

I imagine they prioritize Kaidan with female Shepard and write in focus of that. Then they copy paste.
They seem to do the same thing with Ashley - prioritize Ashley and then copy paste to Kaidan.
This partly explains why Kaidan's facial animations in the demo look awkward and unpolished. Like they didn't even bother to check or edit. At the start of ME2, Kaidan is wearing Ashley's signature armor.

Prioritizing female Shepard for Kaidan was clearly shown in ME1. Male Shepard inexplicably has less Kaidan content than a female Shepard who did not romance him and never showed any interest in him.

Kaidan with male Shepard is probably the last in the list.

Moreover, I think they're pushing on all Shepards that the VS was an old friend. This is particulary important given the conflict and tension in ME3 between them.

[shepskisaac]

Hi guys

[LiaraShepard]

corky_g wrote...


Oh, and I'm not the type of person who believes that gay characters/content needs to be in every game (or any for that matter), because for most games, it wouldn't make sense, or would feel forced.

Yeah, but it's the same with heterosexuality...it's in so many films and games and books...just for commercial reasons, but it's often really forced and useless. and if you have a game with choices, where you can play your own character as you wish, I don't see any reason why not including s/s content. after all it's a choice... I know, it's a matter of resources, but apart from this, there's actually no thing that ijustifies  the lack of homosexuality in games with romance choices where the character isn't pre-defined.

Modifié par LiaraShepard, 15 février 2012 - 11:01 .

[Collider]

LiaraShepard wrote...

corky_g wrote...
Oh, and I'm not the type of person who believes that gay characters/content needs to be in every game (or any for that matter), because for most games, it wouldn't make sense, or would feel forced.

Yeah, but it's the same with heterosexuality...it's in so many films and games and books...just for commercial reasons, but it's often really forced and useless. and if you have a game with choices, where you can play your own character as you wish, I don't see any reason why not including s/s content. after all it's a choice... I know, it's a matter of resources, but apart from this, there's actually no thing that warrants the lack of homosexuality in games with romance choices where the character isn't pre-defined.

There is one thing. What the game creators want to write and have in their game.

[LiaraShepard]

Collider wrote...

LiaraShepard wrote...

corky_g wrote...
Oh, and I'm not the type of person who believes that gay characters/content needs to be in every game (or any for that matter), because for most games, it wouldn't make sense, or would feel forced.

Yeah, but it's the same with heterosexuality...it's in so many films and games and books...just for commercial reasons, but it's often really forced and useless. and if you have a game with choices, where you can play your own character as you wish, I don't see any reason why not including s/s content. after all it's a choice... I know, it's a matter of resources, but apart from this, there's actually no thing that warrants the lack of homosexuality in games with romance choices where the character isn't pre-defined.

There is one thing. What the game creators want to write and have in their game.

yes, but that's not a good reason for a game with romance choices..


---> a reason maybe, but no good reason...since the creators wanted a game where people have so many freedom.

Modifié par LiaraShepard, 15 février 2012 - 11:05 .

[shepskisaac]

Not to interrupt but...

I know something

[Collider]

Please share.

[corky_g]

Collider wrote...
I imagine they prioritize Kaidan with female Shepard and write in focus of that. Then they copy paste.
They seem to do the same thing with Ashley - prioritize Ashley and then copy paste to Kaidan.

This definetely seems to be the case. I don't think most people would notice while playing through, but if you pay attention, all dialogue is meticulously written as gender neutral.

Collider wrote...
This partly explains why Kaidan's facial animations in the demo look awkward and unpolished.

This also partly explains why Kaidan always seems to be coming on to my mShep! Which just annoys me because if everything is written as gender neutral, it would be so easy to make minor adjustments to include m/m. And in that case, Kaidan or Ash wouldn't necessarily be bi, they would be hero-sexual. And as for Vega... him liking woman could just mean that he's actually bisexual, like Zevran, and that he and my Sheploo still might have a chance to get it on.

I know, I was "caustiously optomistic" about any m/m, now I'm just desperately grasping at straws!

[shepskisaac]

Collider wrote...

Please share.

Get inside here guys: social.bioware.com/group/4616/discussion/19201/! Especially Kaidan AND Ashley fans!

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 février 2012 - 11:27 .

[Maugrim]

IsaacShep wrote...

Collider wrote...

Please share.

Get inside here guys: social.bioware.com/group/4616/discussion/19201/! Especially Kaidan AND Ashley fans!

Interesting...*fingers crossed*

[Collider]

Just going to say that's interesting so as to not give it away.

Modifié par Collider, 15 février 2012 - 11:37 .

[Knightly_BW]

IsaacShep wrote...

Collider wrote...

Please share.

Get inside here guys: social.bioware.com/group/4616/discussion/19201/! Especially Kaidan AND Ashley fans!

Hmm interesting.

Thanks for heads up.

[ElitePinecone]

Interesting.

You know, Isaac you're generally a bearer of good news

[corky_g]

IsaacShep wrote...

Not to interrupt but...

I know something

Here I was typing about desperately grasping at straws, wile you simultaneously ninja`d your way in here with an announcement! You`re like some kind of saviour to gay hope!

And that picture... DAMN, dat pic! Never before have I wished so much for a "Report Appropriate" button.

Squeeeeee!

[shepskisaac]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Interesting.

You know, Isaac you're generally a bearer of good news

I know I wasn't going to post about this till SA forums returned to visible mode (for lurkers), but of course seeing how I left for just 1 day and you guys already managed to turn this thread into full doom & gloom mode, I just had to post lol

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 février 2012 - 11:53 .

[ElitePinecone]

corky_g wrote...

- Liara doesn't count as s/s because <verbal gymnastics>: well that's bull****
- Shepard is defined and can't be gay: double bull****! especially since ME is supposedly about choices; you can play as a woman; choose different backgrounds, etc

These two were pretty infuriating.

Re: ME and Kaidan's 'm/m' dialogue.

It's a contested issue, Patrick Weekes said about three years ago that they had both voice actors (Hale and Meer) record all of Shepard's lines, even those of the opposite gender, for some reason that I gather was vaguely to do with schedules, payment and 'just in case'. 

Somewhere along the line, the ME dev team had a high level meeting about making Ashley and Kaidan available for both Shepards, and decided not to do it. The reasons Weekes suggested had to do with 'doing justice to the characters' (make of that what you will, it's possible they didn't have time to create unique m/m and f/f sounding romances) and animation constraints.  

Another writer (Thomas something?) said it *was* planned, but eventually cut due to time constraints. Thing is, he didn't work on ME. 

I'd tend to believe the former over the latter. 

That being said, it's not a secret that many people in this thread and associated groups would like the VS as an option in ME3. 

[Maugrim]

Sometimes IDK why ya'll want the VS to be romanceable, it's just going to make things harder...

Wait that's the point isn't it

But yeah choices, if the VS is romanceable my mainshep is going to have the damndest time chosing between Ash and Liara.

[Frozen83]

Collider wrote...
At the start of ME2, Kaidan is wearing Ashley's signature armor.

Liara wears the same armor. I decided to believe Systems Alliance finally bought them some new equipment after ME1 events, hence the same armor . M.

Modifié par Frozen83, 15 février 2012 - 11:58 .

[The Gman707]

I am thrilled that same sex relationships can be included in games like this now a days. I think we are moving towards a culture where differences in sexuality are not an issue and it is wonderful that the gaming industry is helping with that. I am hetrosexual but i like to be given the opportunity to explore a character that has different traits to myself. to me that is the essence of roll playing. In games such as fable i chose to persue homosexual relationships as a way of defining my character and it will be interesting to see if it is given any more thought than a mere novilty in Mass effect. as garrus is my favorite character i think i will persue a relationship with him.

[Collider]

Frozen83 wrote...

Collider wrote...
At the start of ME2, Kaidan is wearing Ashley's signature armor.

Liara wears the same armor. I decided to believe Systems Alliance finally bought them some new equipment after ME1 events, hence the same armor . M.

Liara has her own helmet, though.

[ElitePinecone]

If the news Isaac posted is true... poor Steve.

[Knightly_BW]

ElitePinecone wrote...

If the news Isaac posted is true... poor Steve.

Meh! I have more than one Shepard.

Maybe my straight Renegade Shep can say "Oh my love, I was always thinking of you while banging Ashley... then Miranda... and while trying to convince Jack for a quickie"