25715 réponses à ce sujet

[SolidBeast]

RinjiRenee wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

That's because from your point of view, they are doing it to "fix them because it's wrong". Nobody invests their time writing fanfiction for that purpose. They are doing it because they are interested in the character and want to romance him with their female character. Nothing more.

Maybe I've just run into way too many fangirls who do sincerely wish to fix them.  And it does exist.

Okay. I've never run into that kind of fanfiction, but neither do I care much for fanfiction in general. It's just hard to imagine anyone would write an elaborate work for no other reason than to "fix" someone, when it doesn't actually fix anything.
But let's say it exists. So what? Does that automatically make every o/s fanfiction with a s/s character offensive?

[Knightly_BW]

RinjiRenee wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

That's because from your point of view, they are doing it to "fix them because it's wrong". Nobody invests their time writing fanfiction for that purpose. They are doing it because they are interested in the character and want to romance him with their female character. Nothing more.

Maybe I've just run into way too many fangirls who do sincerely wish to fix them.  And it does exist.

I can't see much difference in that deed and modding Alistair(or Kaidan or Whiny SW:KotOR guy) to become available to males.

If some female players put time/effort to mod Steve to become available themselves, I will be happy. At least for once gears turn opposite direction.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Asperius wrote...

I can't see much difference in that deed and modding Alistair(or Kaidan or Whiny SW:KotOR guy) to become available to males.

If some female players put time/effort to mod Steve to become available themselves, I will be happy. At least for once gears turn opposite direction.

I've never been the type to "slash" apparent straight males, either.

Guess it boils down to me not being able to understand why people would make gay people straight when there's so many more options available for them.  In a world where publishers tell authors to turn their gay characters straight, I feel sorry for those who don't have the privilege and luxury of having so much more option available to them.  I feel much less sorry for those who haven't checked their privilege.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 16 février 2012 - 03:59 .

[Estelindis]

I guess it would be a positive thing in that Bioware would have written a S/S character as sufficiently appealing that s/he'd attract a wider audience!

I agree that there's something problematic about "fix fic" when it comes to sexual orientation/preference/whathaveyou (what's the best phrase for this, btw?). The thing is, fix fic will happen about pretty much anything that a writer finds unsatisfactory. Personally, I think it's important to respect the integrity of the original creation. At the same time, I would distinguish between "fixing" a character's sexuality because of wanting to romance them (positive evaluation) and "fixing" it because it's seen as something inherently problematic and wrong (negative evaluation).

RinjiRenee wrote...

I've never been the type to "slash" apparent straight males, either.

No, none of that really appeals to me.  Imagine my surprise when I first looked for Silmarillion fan fiction...  

Modifié par Estelindis, 16 février 2012 - 03:53 .

[jeweledleah]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Asperius wrote...

I can't see much difference in that deed and modding Alistair(or Kaidan or Whiny SW:KotOR guy) to become available to males.

If some female players put time/effort to mod Steve to become available themselves, I will be happy. At least for once gears turn opposite direction.

I've never been the type to "slash" apparent straight males, either.

Guess it boils down to me not being able to understand why people would make gay people straight when there's so many more options available for them.  In a world where publishers tell authors to turn their gay characters straight, I feel sorry for those who don't have the privilege and luxury of having so much more option available to them.

for the same reason gay people turn straight people gay.  becasue they don't want other options.  they want this particular option and they want it their way.

that's kinda the point of fanfiction and modding a lot of times.  you didn't get what you wanted out of source material, so you create the version that you prefer. (case in point - Ser Gilmore mod)

now, personaly, I don't like fanfiction that makes inherent changes to the characters, one way or another, (and I mean any changes that don't mesh with their original portrayal).  I try to avoid it as much as possible.  but, personal feelings and preferences aside, I understand why others write it.

"There's a time and place for everything and that place is fanfiction"

Joss Whendon.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 16 février 2012 - 03:59 .

[SolidBeast]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Guess it boils down to me not being able to understand why people would make gay people straight when there's so many more options available for them.

"I don't want anyone else, I want you."

Modifié par SolidBeast, 16 février 2012 - 04:01 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

jeweledleah wrote...

for the same reason gay people turn straight people gay.  becasue they don't want other options.  they want this particular option and they want it their way.[/b]

that's kinda the point of fanfiction a lot of times.  you didn't get what you wanted out of source material, so you create the version that you prefer.

now, personaly, I don't like fanfiction that makes inherent changes to the characters, one way or another, (and I mean any changes that don't mesh with their original portrayal).  I try to avoid it as much as possible.  but, personal feelings and preferences aside, I understand why others write it.

"There's a time and place for everything and that place is fanfiction"

Joss Whendon.

Not that I disagree with you, but just to note here: Gay people don't have nearly the same amount of option in fiction that heterosexual people do.  The world of fanfiction is pretty much all they have a lot of the time.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 16 février 2012 - 04:04 .

[Knightly_BW]

jeweledleah wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Asperius wrote...

I can't see much difference in that deed and modding Alistair(or Kaidan or Whiny SW:KotOR guy) to become available to males.

If some female players put time/effort to mod Steve to become available themselves, I will be happy. At least for once gears turn opposite direction.

I've never been the type to "slash" apparent straight males, either.

Guess it boils down to me not being able to understand why people would make gay people straight when there's so many more options available for them.  In a world where publishers tell authors to turn their gay characters straight, I feel sorry for those who don't have the privilege and luxury of having so much more option available to them.

for the same reason gay people turn straight people gay.  becasue they don't want other options.  they want this particular option and they want it their way.

that's kinda the point of fanfiction a lot of times.  you didn't get what you wanted out of source material, so you create the version that you prefer.

now, personaly, I don't like fanfiction that makes inherent changes to the characters, one way or another, (and I mean any changes that don't mesh with their original portrayal).  I try to avoid it as much as possible.  but, personal feelings and preferences aside, I understand why others write it.

"There's a time and place for everything and that place is fanfiction"

Joss Whendon.

I am not against Fanfics, they are completely amateur works and reflects writers/artists own ideas. If you like it you'll read it, if not you have to move on. No matter how frustrating it is, no one can force another to change their creative work about fictional characters.

Maybe more horrible thing many popular people (actors, sportsmen, singers or politicians) forced to hide their sexuality... forced to correct themselves to gain higher appreciation.

[Rinji the Bearded]

SolidBeast wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Guess it boils down to me not being able to understand why people would make gay people straight when there's so many more options available for them.

"I don't want anyone else, I want you."

"So I want to change a part of you in order for you to love me back."

Never have understood it, from both sides.  But that's just me, I guess~

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 16 février 2012 - 04:05 .

[SolidBeast]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Not that I disagree with you, but just to note here: Gay people don't have nearly the same amount of option in fiction that heterosexual people do.  The world of fanfiction is pretty much all they have a lot of the time.

Wanting just one option is the same as not having any other option.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 16 février 2012 - 04:13 .

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

for the same reason gay people turn straight people gay.  becasue they don't want other options.  they want this particular option and they want it their way.

Actually, in most cases it's because there's no option at all. Especially in mainstream action/superhero/fantasy books, movies, comics or video games.

[SolidBeast]

RinjiRenee wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Guess it boils down to me not being able to understand why people would make gay people straight when there's so many more options available for them.

"I don't want anyone else, I want you."

"So I want to change a part of you in order for you to love me back."

Never have understood it, from both sides.  But that's just me, I guess~

Yeah, well, fangirling / fanboying over fictional characters gets irrational. Just like love.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 16 février 2012 - 04:10 .

[jeweledleah]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Not that I disagree with you, but just to note here: Gay people don't have nearly the same amount of option in fiction that heterosexual people do.

and?

in real life, straight or gay, sometimes you want a person that you cannot have.  or a persona that doesn't want you back.  its not sexuality exclusive.

so in fiction, if you want a specific person?  you can try and fix it like you cannot in real life.  you are perfectly entitely to dislike it personaly, heck you can even be offended. but like Isaid, I don't see why one is more offensive then the other, to me both can potentialy be equaly offensive, depending on how its handled. and its no worse then taking a character that's supposed to act a certain way (like for example taking a character that's supposed to be very accepting and turning them into a racist, or taking a villian and turning them into a misunderstood martyr) and making them act completely differently, because that's how you want them to act, becasue its your story and your fantasy.

[Rinji the Bearded]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

for the same reason gay people turn straight people gay.  becasue they don't want other options.  they want this particular option and they want it their way.

Actually, in most cases it's because there's no option at all. Especially in mainstream action/superhero/fantasy books, movies, comics or video games.

Yup.  If you are straight, white, and cisgendered, you are 100% guaranteed to have something to fit your demographic in all kinds of media.   You will have options, too.  If you're homosexual or transgendered?  Options are a lot more limited, or even non-existent.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 16 février 2012 - 04:11 .

[jeweledleah]

RinjiRenee wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

for the same reason gay people turn straight people gay.  becasue they don't want other options.  they want this particular option and they want it their way.

Actually, in most cases it's because there's no option at all. Especially in mainstream action/superhero/fantasy books, movies, comics or video games.

Yup.  If you are straight, white, and cisgendered, you are 100% guaranteed to have something to fit your demographic in all kinds of media.   You will have options, too.  If you're homosexual or transgendered?  Options are a lot more limited, or even non-existent.

except even when given an option, peopel will still go for the option they like better. 

for example.  DAO.  there's Zevran.  but people still mod Alistair because they want him and not Zevran.  or Morrigan vs Leliana.  and sometimes, they don't like their options at all, so they mod the character that was supposed to die at the start of the game, or Logain.

in DA2 - you have 2 gay options per gender.  but people still want Aveline, or Varic, and I beleive I've seen some s/s desire for Sebastian.  why? because that's the character they prefer.  do you think i don't understand why people have"Kaidan for s/s" in their signatures.  not s/s romances in general, Kaidan specificaly?

oposite is also true, you know.  regardless of how numerous or lacking the options are.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

regardless of how numerous or lacking the options are.

No. If there were options, there would be much less shipping, because some people would be already satisfied with the already existing options. It's rather simple. The same way how there will be some o/s Cortez shipping, but it won't be as huge as if it would be the case if FemShep had 0 LIs.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 16 février 2012 - 04:23 .

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

regardless of how numerous or lacking the options are.

No. If there were options, there would be much less shipping, because some people would be already satisfied with the already existing options. It's rather simple. The same way how there will be some o/s Cortez shipping, but it won't be as huge as if it was the case if FemShep had 0 LIs.

oh, Isaac.  you don't understand shippers, do you.  and I thought I was inexperienced with that particular fenomena.  if people like Cortez and don't like maleshep?  they will ship, regardless of ANY other option available to them.  shippers don't settle for available, its against the nature of shipping.

[SolidBeast]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

regardless of how numerous or lacking the options are.

No. If there were options, there would be much less shipping, because some people would be already satisfied with the already existing options. It's rather simple. The same way how there will be some o/s Cortez shipping, but it won't be as huge as if it would be the case if FemShep had 0 LIs.

I thought the issue wasn't that of how much shipping there would be, but rather if it's offensive to ship at all in the case of s/s LIs.

[Rinji the Bearded]

jeweledleah wrote...

except even when given an option, peopel will still go for the option they like better. 

for example.  DAO.  there's Zevran.  but people still mod Alistair because they want him and not Zevran.  or Morrigan vs Leliana.  and sometimes, they don't like their options at all, so they mod the character that was supposed to die at the start of the game, or Logain.

in DA2 - you have 2 gay options per gender.  but people still want Aveline, or Varic, and I beleive I've seen some s/s desire for Sebastian.  why? because that's the character they prefer.  do you think i don't understand why people have"Kaidan for s/s" in their signatures.  not s/s romances in general, Kaidan specificaly?

oposite is also true, you know.  regardless of how numerous or lacking the options are.

I don't get the reasoning behind this.

Gay men and lesbians usually don't have any option.  In Mass Effect, they haven't had any options until now.   They've come to like Kaidan as a character, and so for their lack of any other option, they would like if Kaidan would more or less come out of the closet and like their Male Shepard.  When fanfiction is written by a gay person (and not by a straight person who is fetishizing homosexuality), it's done out of a desire to be able to relate to their character.  Kaidan is the only human male in Shepard's squad since ME1.

Now let's count the options that a straight female Shepard has had since ME1:

Kaidan
Garrus
Thane
Jacob

So suddenly an obviously gay man comes along and suddenly they want to turn him straight because somehow they think that they would be the most compatible with their female Shepard?

If it's not some fetish, then I do not and will never understand it.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 16 février 2012 - 04:33 .

[Ryzaki]

SolidBeast wrote...
Some straight fangirl's desire is not offensive. In her fanfiction, it's an alternate universe. She wants to romance him, so she turns him straight to satisfy her fantasy. It's perfectly valid.

Yeah this is pretty much where I sit.

I'd have to be highest level of hypocrite to get mad about someone writing o/s fanfiction about a m/m exclusive option when I write s/s fanfiction about a m/f exclusive option.

As for those morons who put anti gay (and anti straight) messages in their fanfic? They can kick rocks. Those tend to be morons anyway that should be ignored. 

Most of the time the "fixing" fanfic I see ends up with said character repenting before ending up dead.

Edit: WTF keyboard? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 février 2012 - 04:39 .

[SolidBeast]

RinjiRenee wrote...

So
suddenly an obviously gay man comes along and suddenly they want to
turn him straight because somehow they think that they would be the most
compatible with their female Shepard?

If it's not some fetish, then I do not and will never understand it.

Why not? Are you implying that gender and sexuality is the only relevant trait in a character? That homosexuals must only relate to homosexuals and heterosexuals must only relate to heterosexuals?

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah this is pretty much where I sit.

I'd have to be highest level of hypocrite to get made about someone writing o/s fanfiction about a m/m exclusive option when I write s/s fanfiction about a m/f exclusive option.

Exactly.

[Rinji the Bearded]

SolidBeast wrote...

Why not? Are you implying that gender and sexuality is the only relevant trait in a character? That homosexuals must only relate to homosexuals and heterosexuals must only relate to heterosexuals?

It's a pretty important thing when it comes to wanting to romance that character, I'd say yes to that.

And because homosexuals don't have the same amount of option as heterosexuals, I am more willing to forgive them.

Trolololol I don't even read fanfiction because of silly things like this.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 16 février 2012 - 04:38 .

[SolidBeast]

Some people don't fall in love with a gender, they fall in love with a person.

[Rinji the Bearded]

SolidBeast wrote...

Some people don't fall in love with a gender, they fall in love with a person.

That's pansexuality, yes.  Which has nothing to do with heterosexuality or homosexuality.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 16 février 2012 - 04:45 .

[jeweledleah]

RinjiRenee wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

Why not? Are you implying that gender and sexuality is the only relevant trait in a character? That homosexuals must only relate to homosexuals and heterosexuals must only relate to heterosexuals?

It's a pretty important thing when it comes to wanting to romance that character, I'd say yes to that.

And because homosexuals don't have the same amount of option as heterosexuals, I am more willing to forgive them.

Trolololol I don't even read fanfiction because of silly things like this.

umm... but when the same reasoning was given by people trying to explain why they didn't want previously m/f LI's only to be availabel for s/s - they were terribly wrong and shallow etc etc?

I'm sorry, if sexuality is important, its important no matter which sexuality it is.  and if its secondary to the character themselves, then the boundary is purely personal.  and you are perfectly entiteled to your personal boundaries.  and hopefuly understand better the personalboundaries of others, even if they run oposite to yours.

someone a while ago said, why they wanted m/m romance despite being a straight female. they relate to playing male character better.  they don't like playing female characters. but they still like guys,  so if they want to romance someone, they want to romance a guy.

this same reasoning works in another direction.  someone doesn't like playing a male character, but they relaly REALLY like a particular romance that's not normaly available to them.  sometimes it means modding Ashley, or Miranda, or Jack, or Tali to like femshep.  and sometimes?  it can mean modding Steve.

personaly, I don't share this, OR like this, so i plan on romancing Steve with a maleShepard, because anything esle feels like it doesn't fit.  but I understand, beleive me I understand why others might not feel the same way.  i don't have to like it and neither to you. but try to understand it.