25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Knightly_BW]

jeweledleah wrote...

Asperius wrote...

alexdrake wrote...

Well Ricvanart and others summed up the bi Alenko defense so nicely but there are two things I would like to highlight. Firstly, Alenko did mention in no uncertain terms that he loved Rhana. My Sheps have all (not including pure paragon) asked if Alenko got physical with her, mostly to test the waters. He said he would never do that, not lightly anyways, unless I missed something in LotSB I read that as him loving Rhana as a sister.

Next his attraction to asari could be argued as the way I looked at the asari the first time I played mass effect. They could become either gender. I took that to mean during mind sex they could make one feel as though they were a man. That's the only reason I have one hold out Liara hook up because we still have no confirmation on Shenko or Shega and I'm not sold on Steve.

Also on Asari keep in mind that Barchelor Party talk from 3 guys on Eternity. Each of the guys (Salarian, Human and Turian) saw an Asari very similar to their own race. So maybe Asari has some kind of psychic ability make people attracted to them, like Nymphs of legends.

While those legendary creatures charms only works on males, Asari can use this ability to charm either gender (like Nef's attraction to Morinth). So being with an Asari doesn't show one's sexual preference but their strength of personality (high Paragon or Renegade score for resisting Morinth). Plus how pyhsical an Asari during sex is unknown. They talk about some kind of mind link more than human sexual traditions.

Well at least this is my take on Asari.

or in other words... Liara romance is not actualy s/s romance according to your interpretation?

Well from human point of view, Asari are female. So you can say that was it was f/f romance. Like Nef says, she sees Morinth as a girl like herself. Question is, if Morinth saw her as a girl?

However their sexuality is alien to humans so I am trying to think it apart from human behavior. I assume Asari see other races as Krogan/Human/Salarian as whole. Don't mind gender difference as wheter other one is male or female in the end they intercourse to have their own children. I don't think a human female can get pregnant by having sex with an Asari. In the end Asari is genderless. Devs created them as "alien hot chicks" but they placed very interesting concept over them.

I still want to have a Mass Effect Alien anatomy book, that is a fact.

Modifié par Asperius, 22 février 2012 - 09:16 .

[jeweledleah]

alexdrake wrote...

And I am also not so sure about the total lack of physical contact. Morinth was pretty damn touchy-feely with Shep and her victims. I sincerely doubt that is only to get her targets in the proper frame of mind. Also the sex scene with Liara involved an awful lot of skin to skin as I recall, but it has been a while.

if you chat with Liara, she says that actual physical contact while MAY be involved, is not actualy necessary.  the connection, the melding is mental.  and as i'm currently running through my Liaramancer, that particular conversation is fresh in my mind.  Morinth wears gloves.  there is no skin to skin contact with Morinth.  she uses body language, voice, possibly pheromones, she touches but seems only through clothing.  just like Halex - its extras for her, icing on a cake, not necessities.

and speaking of aforementioned Liaramancer, there are 4 human strippers in Chora's den, not counting the bartender that you help.  one is dancing at the top stage, one is dancing on one of those little platforms with the other one sitting in patron's lap, and last one is standing close to the door, chatting with another patron.  so its not just asari dancers.

and lastly.  you (general you, not you specificaly) cannot use the argument that asari are female to prove that femsheps romancing are in s/s relationship and therefore must be bi or gay in order to be atracted in a first place, while at the same time claim that asari atraction is somehow so universal that everyone is hot for them regardless of sexuality, THEIR sexuality, not that of asari. 

Modifié par jeweledleah, 22 février 2012 - 09:20 .

[alexdrake]

@jewled Morinth may use gloves I'll have to look at that scene again. However, that doesn't change the fact that Liara was au nateral and rolling around with Shep, as was the consort come to think of it.

[jeweledleah]

alexdrake wrote...

@jewled Morinth may use gloves I'll have to look at that scene again. However, that doesn't change the fact that Liara was au nateral and rolling around with Shep, as was the consort come to think of it.

no, it does not.  like I said, contact MAY occur.  its merely not required.  just like penis is not required for a woman to enjoy sex.  the question here is.  are asari seen as women by humans?  because if they are (and by saying that human female has to be gay or bi to be atracted to one - you are admiting as much), then a human male, who is atracted to asari - is most definitely NOT gay.  bisexual, possibly.  but NOT gay.  rationalizing away all those experiences with females and mentions of females as inconsequential is.. well.. sorry, but absurd is the only word I can find for it.  otherwise... why so much uproad about Hendel leering at asari?

[alexdrake]

I don't even know how I began arguing over asari biology. Look all due respect, I have my head cannon. You don't have to like it, that doesnt affect me. I'm only using Liara as my contingency plan anyways if I can't have Vega or at the very least Alenko. I don't like the look of Steve and he's not a squad mate so I protest him on principle.

[Ricvenart]

jeweledleah wrote...

You can do it all you want, but it will not make it real, merely a self inflicted delusion.

Wait...Does that mean I didn't kill 2 Reapers and travel thoughout the galaxy too? How could I be so deluded?

You on the other hand can claim Kaidan's appreciation of Asari (The squad banter doesn't mention either race specifically) means Kaidan is definately not gay, they can't be not female and at the same time female by those criteria.

And who's using stereotypes?

Or for that matter why does someone thinking of Kaidan as Gay (which I never said, just gave possibilities) in their game, offend you so much you need to call them delusional, when it won't make Kaidan dump your F!Shep over it anyway, it doesn't make it apply to your game?

Modifié par Ricvenart, 22 février 2012 - 09:40 .

[alexdrake]

Who's Hendel?

[alexdrake]

Oh that's why I feel under attack because you feel that you have to protect your Alenko from my Sheps. Let me reassure you if Vega is unavailable my Sheps' flirtation with Alenko will have no bearing on your femShep an Alenko beating the reapers then settling down to have kids, dogs, and a white picket fence.

[Frozen83]

http://masseffect.wi...ki/Hendel_Mitra

M.

[jeweledleah]

Ricvenart wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

You can do it all you want, but it will not make it real, merely a self inflicted delusion.

Wait...Does that mean I didn't kill 2 Reapers and travel thoughout the galaxy too? How could I be so deluded?

You on the other hand can claim Kaidan's appreciation of Asari (The squad banter doesn't mention either race specifically) means Kaidan is definately not gay, they can't be not female and at the same time female by those criteria.

And who's using stereotypes?

Or for that matter why does someone thinking of Kaidan as Gay (which I never said, just gave possibilities) in their game, offend you so much you need to call them delusional, when it won't make Kaidan dump your F!Shep over it anyway, it doesn't make it apply to your game?

Kaidan's apreciation of asari is mentioned on Noveria.  he apreciates Chora's den dancers in general and like I said, there are 4 human female dancers there, not counting bartender.

exactly which stereotypes I'm using here?  i merely quote the information from the game.

and you can headcanon whatever you want, but your personal headcanon, cannot be used by writers to create overall narative becasue your personal headcanon is just that - personal.

it doesn't offend me.  it annoys me. why?  because whenever someone so much as mentions their femshep and Liara not being s/s relationship becasue Liara is not really a woman, they are immediately jumped on and told in detail how wrong they are

[alexdrake]

Thank you 83 as you can see I did not read the comics.

[Ricvenart]

I was asking you who's using stereotypes.

Bartender does not equal stripper. If you want to keep Implying that, I'm going to start implying the View (again he never says human or asari, it could be either) he thinks is great is the MALE human and Salarian Barman. Wasn't the Noveria mention, nothing more then a comparison of something to an Extra net fetish site, been a while, if it is the one he doesn't say he loves those sites or hates them, again a gap up to the individual of how they take it, nothing you should get annoyed about or call them delusional over.

Yeah I can and anyone else can, so can you but why are you bringing the writers into this now? I never said the writers had to make Kaidan bring any of that up. If anything I just pointed out the gaps that allow someone to headcannon what they would rather.

So you're response to peoples headcannons on what an Asari/Female relationship is, is to jump on other people for what they decide to headcannon for Kaidan/Mshep. To be annoyed at them and attack them for it...you seem pretty offended to me. If you should be annoyed at anyone it should be Bioware for a pretty inconsistant stance on what Asari/Female relationships are, not how an individual percieves them.

Whatever I only came replied with possibilities to colliders question.

[Zandilar]

 

Honestly, I could shoot the writers that included that stupid bachelor's party scene. People took it literally, and ran with the idea that somehow Asari modify how they look in the minds of the people who view them. Which is not how that scene should be read, or at least not how I read it.

Like, when someone shows you a photo of their baby, and you say "oh, he/she has your nose!". You're seeing a trait of the mother/father in their child, you're not saying that that child looks identical to the parent in question. That is all that scene meant. They saw a trait in the dancer that is familiar to their race, nothing more.

So no, an Asari looks like an Asari (blue female with head tendrils and slightly scaly skin). Clearly Shepard sees her as female, no matter their sexuality, because otherwise we'd have a male Liara if Shepard was a straight female or gay male (and while my female Shepard might not be straight, there are an awful lot of players with straight female Shepards who still see Liara as female). We'd also have Liara looking completely like a human for xenophobic Shepards, and that isn't the case either.

Modifié par Zandilar, 22 février 2012 - 10:32 .

[jeweledleah]

Ricvenart wrote...

I was asking you who's using stereotypes.

Bartender does not equal stripper. If you want to keep Implying that, I'm going to start implying the View (again he never says human or asari, it could be either) he thinks is great is the MALE human and Salarian Barman. Wasn't the Noveria mention, nothing more then a comparison of something to an Extra net fetish site, been a while, if it is the one he doesn't say he loves those sites or hates them, again a gap up to the individual of how they take it, nothing you should get annoyed about or call them delusional over.

Yeah I can and anyone else can, so can you but why are you bringing the writers into this now? I never said the writers had to make Kaidan bring any of that up. If anything I just pointed out the gaps that allow someone to headcannon what they would rather.

So you're response to peoples headcannons on what an Asari/Female relationship is, is to jump on other people for what they decide to headcannon for Kaidan/Mshep. To be annoyed at them and attack them for it...you seem pretty offended to me. If you should be annoyed at anyone it should be Bioware for a pretty inconsistant stance on what Asari/Female relationships are, not how an individual percieves them.

Whatever I only came replied with possibilities to colliders question.

ummm, that's why I said NOT counting the bartender.  she doesn't count as she's not a stripper.  however - the girl dancing with the 2 asaris at that top stage?  IS a stripper.  as is the girl dancing on a smaller stage for a patron.  I'd say, they constitute as at least part of "the view"

and no my response to people's headcanons about their mshep/kaidna is nothing more then response of people in THIS very thread to those who headcanon their femshep as NOT gay, even though she has relationship with Liara.  I'm annoyed at people in this thread using double standard when it comes to headcanons.

also, tell me something,  why are you trying to headcanon Kaidan as gay, including waving away any possibility of him having anything romantic/sexual to do with women?  are you threatened by bisexuality?  does the fact that he might like women as well as men bother you that much?  after all, if he's in love with your maleshep, its not like he's going to dump him for some girl, right? so why erase it away exactly?

Modifié par jeweledleah, 22 février 2012 - 10:39 .

[Cathey]

Anyone found any pics of Sam yet?

[Ricvenart]

Leah, you can read my earlier post to find an answer to all that.

Nice try turning the question I asked you back on me, but it doesn't apply.

I haven't erased any of his past, in fact I used it, not that it's the only way someone can see it nor did I say it was my personal headcannon. Why am I trying to headcannon him as gay? Not that I am, but am I not allowed now, I thought you said anyone was free to keep thier headcannons as it is thier personal one and you talk about double standards.

I'm done having this conversation with you, I'm not the one saying he has to be seen in a certain way and others interpretations are wrong, absurd or annoying, I'm not the one here threatened by it and frankly you keep taking it further and further away from the original point trying grasp at straws.


It was a reply to Collider providing possibilities.

Modifié par Ricvenart, 22 février 2012 - 11:52 .

[ElitePinecone]

goodventure wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

The Ashley and Kaidan romance dialogue is gender neutral in any case, and has a strong theme of "I liked you from three years ago, let's get together naow"

(I think Ashley's is particularly well-written, actually. That line about Eden Prime is nice.)

This makes me happy. :]

but wait, is Ashley's romance dialogue written differently from Kaidan's? They were basically the same character in ME2, so I hope in 3 they finally get separated somehow.

They are very clearly separate, at least for romance.

They do have basically the same story roles, but their Normandy conversations are completely different. 

Their 'date scene' is also very different (though I don't know what Ashley's is, Kaidan's is unique to his character with unique dialogue)

Bioware basically made them as different as they could while having to (out of necessity) make their plot roles interchangable. 

[SolidBeast]

jeweledleah wrote...

and you can headcanon whatever you want, but your personal headcanon, cannot be used by writers to create overall narative becasue your personal headcanon is just that - personal.

No, the writers don't need to use people's personal headcanons, but they can take into account the possibilties of headcanonning - in other words, enable headcanon in a game that benefits from it (as this is, after all, everyone's personal story). The beauty of RPGs is as much in what is obviously there as in what you imagine is there.
The point is - gay Kaidan as headcanon is enabled by the writing, for those who wish to headcanon it.

In other words, you can argue that headcanons are delusions, but delusions are a valid part of the RPG experience, therefore dismissing them is pointless.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 22 février 2012 - 01:58 .

[Ricvenart]

@SolidBeast: Thank you!...again. Well put too. That's more or less what I was getting at with the list on page 725

[SolidBeast]

Ricvenart wrote...

@SolidBeast: Thank you!...again. Well put too. That's more or less what I was getting at with the list on page 725

I saw your list and I agree with it. Also, I'll add that this has nothing to do with the discussion about Asari. They are a female-only race.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

I've been too busy playing Arcanum to keep up to date. Any news about Vega/Kaidan? Or Steve's voice actor?

[LukaCrosszeria]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

I've been too busy playing Arcanum to keep up to date. Any news about Vega/Kaidan? Or Steve's voice actor?

Alas, no. Instead of checking here every day, I've been checking several times a day. 

[shepskisaac]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

I've been too busy playing Arcanum to keep up to date. Any news about Vega/Kaidan? Or Steve's voice actor?

At the moment, it looks like Kaidan is bi and Vega not a LI at all. Mind you, this is mainly based on info from a source at SA forums (especially in Vega's case) so take it with a grain of salt

[ElitePinecone]

IsaacShep wrote...

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

I've been too busy playing Arcanum to keep up to date. Any news about Vega/Kaidan? Or Steve's voice actor?

At the moment, it looks like Kaidan is bi and Vega not a LI at all. Mind you, this is mainly based on info from a source at SA forums (especially in Vega's case) so take it with a grain of salt

We might know for sure if a stampede of people grab weather balloons soon.

I can't imagine the SAFG slipping in wrong information amongst what amounts to pages of correct stuff, especially the way it was all so offhand. They even bothered to put spoiler tags around most of it. 

Of course, they could be just misinformed - but I'm pretty confident about what they said. Call it a hunch. 

Also, this has been bugging me for months: did Mac Walters ever write romances (or romancable characters) for ME/ME2? Chris L'Etoile handled Ashley in ME, I can't find who wrote Kaidan or Liara, and the ME2 LIs are sorta all over the place. It's hard to even find a list of the ME2 writers at all.

I think L'Etoile had Thane, but that's all I know. 

I know Walters handled TIM, and he's the writer for Vega in ME3.

Edit:
Okay, this thread is helpful:  http://social.biowar...index/5632487/1 

Apparently Lukas Kristjanson wrote Kaidan in ME. This is awesome, because Aveline is just about my favourite character ever. 

And apparently Weekes wrote Miranda. 

Lukas also wrote Jacob.

Drew had Liara in ME.

Patrick also had Garrus and Tali's dialogue (in Garrus' case, the non-main quest dialogue)

It's just that, as far as I know, Mac covered the main plotline dialogue in ME2 and some story-important characters (TIM, Vega for ME3?) - to my mind he hasn't written romancable ones in the past. 

Not out of the question that someone else could've written a romance path, or even Mac. Just wanted to satisfy my own curiosity. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 22 février 2012 - 03:56 .

[Ricvenart]

Chris Priestly wrote...

My favorite feature though is how your part members don't stay in one spot all the time. Definitely my favorite new Normandy feature.

Surpised no ones mentioned this (I think).

Where's Kaidan?

*Notices a lump under the bedsheet/the shower running*