25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

I feel the same way for my Sentinel Rinji, he's not "carrying a torch" for Kaidan or anyone else, he learned a long time ago that such things were a waste of time. He's a resilient guy, not an emotional wreck. His scars are healed, but he still bears the scars, if that makes any sense.

My lesbian Shepard is a lot different. She has Liara, and she loves Liara. She even likes that Liara is the Shadow Broker now, this particular Shepard has a very anti-authority "chaotic good" outlook. She doesn't trust Cerberus, but she doesn't necessarily think the Alliance or the Council can get things done either. She's very Paragon, though, and always makes Paragon decisions. She's not above a Renegade interrupt in a combat situation though.

[Siansonea]

NICKjnp wrote...

Reading into something is not "hinted". It is you projecting what you want to see. Kaidan says the "losing a limb" to Femshep who didn't romance him as well. He never makes any reference to being attracted to men...infact it is the opposite. He makes plenty of comments about women. Furthermore if there is any indication in-game it is that he is interested in Asari. I know you like him...but I'm sure Bioware will do a fine job with Vega (and the new female squadmate for wome). There is no need to change him or any other character...it detracts from the character when they are changed for fan service (just look at what happened with Tali). So trust Bioware to give a good s/s romance with Vega (and the new female squadmate).

I see it as "reading into" also, but I don't think it necessarily means that we're reading into something that couldn't be there. In the absence of an unambiguous declarative statement, there is room to read between the lines, and we'll always role-play intent for Shepard and for the other characters if there's any room for interpretation. I think there is a degree of room for interpretation with most of the existing LIs, some more so than others, because I don't think we know everything there is to know about them. Heck, I don't think all of them are even being completely honest with us, and not just about personal stuff. Miranda, I'm looking at you.

Everything we speculate about regarding their dialog is by definition inconclusive. BioWare is going to do what they want to do in any case, and I agree that the most likely/safest path will be James Vega/new female human squadmate or Joker /fully-implemented Kelly. But it's still okay to speculate and explore the ideas of existing LIs, at least until BioWare issues a definitive statement themselves that those characters won't be options for s/s. No harm in wondering "what if..." 

[AngelicMachinery]

NICKjnp wrote...

Reading into something is not "hinted". It is you projecting what you want to see. Kaidan says the "losing a limb" to Femshep who didn't romance him as well. He never makes any reference to being attracted to men...infact it is the opposite. He makes plenty of comments about women. Furthermore if there is any indication in-game it is that he is interested in Asari. I know you like him...but I'm sure Bioware will do a fine job with Vega (and the new female squadmate for wome). There is no need to change him or any other character...it detracts from the character when they are changed for fan service (just look at what happened with Tali). So trust Bioware to give a good s/s romance with Vega (and the new female squadmate).

You sort of have to understand where this is coming from though,  I know you might not enjoy people talking about it I can't really fault you for it.  To some I suppose it will destroy everything about the character you know.  I don't understand this fear much...  as I've been a firm believer that the sport of the bedroom doesn't change a person.

Sorry,  I got off topic.  The reason people are asking for old characters isn't to force some sort of change on the game BUT it is because they want to have prior involvement with the characters.  In their eyes this strengthens the bond between said characters.  You really can't fault people for hoping and looking for says that may suggest that special video game someone may be interested.

Also...  Vega seems to be getting a very bad wrap around these parts.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 20 juin 2011 - 05:06 .

[shepskisaac]

My lonely gay Shep is totally in love with Kaidan and can't get over him no matter how hard he tries so he won't be settling for any 'substitue', he's waiting for Alenko in ME3

NICKjnp wrote...
Reading into something is not "hinted". It is you projecting what you want to see. Kaidan says the "losing a
limb" to Femshep who didn't romance him as well.

And it's hard to interpret it as anything else other than he still has deep feelings for FemShep. Especially giving how he snaps and we know in ME1 that he snaps when he cares for someone alot.

NICKjnp wrote...
He never makes any reference to being attracted to men...infact it is the opposite. He makes plenty of comments about women.

So does Sky in JE (actually, he makes much more comments about women than Kaidan) until you mention to him you're interested in men yourself.

NICKjnp wrote...
Bioware will do a fine job with Vega (and the new female squadmate for wome). There is no need to change him or any other character...

How about giving gay players anything that resembles trilogy-spanning romance experience everyone else got with other main LIs? If the male s/s is only a new character, it won't matter in the context of the previous games at all. 

Modifié par IsaacShep, 20 juin 2011 - 05:10 .

[NICKjnp]

Here is another thing to take into consideration...some people started the series with ME2. They may not have the option for a s/s romance if it is the VS. And you completely missed my point about fanservice. It turned out awful w/Tali and Garrus. It will likely be the same here. If Bioware makes previous squadmates that were straight and are now all of a sudden bisexual then I'll be very dissapointed in them. Not because they have added s/s romances (that is a good thing...it lets everyone have the option to role play themselves) but because they changed previous characters for fanservice.

[Rinji the Bearded]

NICKjnp wrote...

Here is another thing to take into consideration...some people started the series with ME2. They may not have the option for a s/s romance if it is the VS. And you completely missed my point about fanservice. It turned out awful w/Tali and Garrus. It will likely be the same here. If Bioware makes previous squadmates that were straight and are now all of a sudden bisexual then I'll be very dissapointed in them. Not because they have added s/s romances (that is a good thing...it lets everyone have the option to role play themselves) but because they changed previous characters for fanservice.

I'm really not sure how changing someone's perceived sexuality to something that's not really that farfetched would really be that big of a game-changer.  Not to mention that the romances are, for the most part, fanservice to begin with.

As for which VS is dead... people who enjoy Kaidan more are going to keep him alive, obviously.  If Vega is being created for this supposed s/s fanservice option, why can't he just be a Kaidan replacement in that case?

[NICKjnp]

He can't be kept alive if you started the game with ME2. For maleshep it is Ashley and femshep it is Kaidan.

[shepskisaac]

NICKjnp wrote...

Here is another thing to take into consideration...some people started the series with ME2. They may not have the option for a s/s romance if it is the VS. And you completely missed my point about fanservice. It turned out awful w/Tali and Garrus. It will likely be the same here. If Bioware makes previous squadmates that were straight and are now all of a sudden bisexual then I'll be very dissapointed in them. Not because they have added s/s romances (that is a good thing...it lets everyone have the option to role play themselves) but because they changed previous characters for fanservice.

But it doesn't change anything. If they made Kaidan gay (gay, not bi), then it would change things, it would change the romance he had with FemShep into pretending/faking. Neither does it change anything for straigth ManShep, Kaidan already thinks Shep is straight so unless corrected he won't be hitting on straight ManShep. Having him as s/s option doesn't change anything for anyone except GaySheps. The fact he speakes about women is not a proof he doesn't like men. Bisexual men do speak about women.

NICKjnp wrote...

He can't be kept alive if you started the game with ME2. For maleshep it is Ashley and femshep it is Kaidan.

With a comic he can be and ME3 will have its own comic too.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 20 juin 2011 - 05:16 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

NICKjnp wrote...

He can't be kept alive if you started the game with ME2. For maleshep it is Ashley and femshep it is Kaidan.

But they didn't have s/s options for that game besides Kelly or if you carried on a relationship with Liara, nor were the VSs assumed to be in a previous relationship with Shepard, so that means little?  They wouldn't have had the perceived feelings for Kaidan in that case, too.  We were assured that there would be new LIs for s/s, but for those who have played since ME1 and kept Kaidan alive, for example, could potentially get another option.

All the LIs from ME2 could potentially be dead (besides Liara and the VS), too.  Does this mean that they shouldn't be available as LIs at all in ME3 for people who have never played the game?

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 20 juin 2011 - 05:19 .

[NICKjnp]

Now you are requiring people to pay extra for the option. Maybe they don't feel like paying extra for DLC....does that mean they should be forced to not have the option?

[AngelicMachinery]

NICKjnp wrote...

Now you are requiring people to pay extra for the option. Maybe they don't feel like paying extra for DLC....does that mean they should be forced to not have the option?

ME3 will have said comic built right in,  they want to make sure they can grab every possible buyer they can.

The idea of playing the last game without the firs two just seems...  odd to me though.  This isn't that sort of shooter...

[NICKjnp]

True...but the ME series isn't a dating sim. There are choices in ME2 that will affect ME3. You are requiring them to start a new game in order to have the option.

[AngelicMachinery]

NICKjnp wrote...

True...but the ME series isn't a dating sim. There are choices in ME2 that will affect ME3. You are requiring them to start a new game in order to have the option.

Not if both Kaidan and Vega are bi.  As I've said before though,  the absurdity of not playing the first two before playing the third is just so weird.

[Rinji the Bearded]

NICKjnp wrote...

True...but the ME series isn't a dating sim. There are choices in ME2 that will affect ME3. You are requiring them to start a new game in order to have the option.

People who have had Kaidan dead from the beginning probably won't mind a new s/s LI, which there will be (probably Vega at this rate).  For all we know, he's being created JUST for that extra s/s option.

/controversial statement

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 20 juin 2011 - 05:24 .

[Siansonea]

NICKjnp wrote...

Here is another thing to take into consideration...some people started the series with ME2. They may not have the option for a s/s romance if it is the VS. And you completely missed my point about fanservice. It turned out awful w/Tali and Garrus. It will likely be the same here. If Bioware makes previous squadmates that were straight and are now all of a sudden bisexual then I'll be very dissapointed in them. Not because they have added s/s romances (that is a good thing...it lets everyone have the option to role play themselves) but because they changed previous characters for fanservice.

Well, now that we have that extremely flawed "Genesis" interactive comic, an ME2 player can have a save game with s/s VS. I have real problems with the writing of that sequence, but at least it does give ME2-only players a chance to have something besides a "all the Renegade choices" default game. 

The thing about the fanservice issue and everything else is that it's subjective. I facepalmed a good deal over the Garrus and Tali romances, that's for sure. But I recognize that not everyone shared my opinion of the overall quality of those romances, and that many people loved them. Didn't break my game, I just don't go there with those characters. And I'm hoping against hope that the overall quality of writing in ME3 is an order of magnitude better than ME2, because as much as I liked that game a lot, the "backbone" of the story made me eyeroll and facepalm at the same time. I had much bigger problems with the overarching storyline than any of the romances. I thought some of the romances were pretty decent, and I liked that I had so many options and that each romance culmination scene was unique. I hope BioWare steps up their game in ME3. In any case, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that an existing LI as s/s LI would be done poorly.

I also tend to think that being bisexual doesn't automatically change a person's character. It's not something that is worn on the sleeve. It really only comes into play in the realm of romantic interaction, outside of that bisexual people are just people. I don't think it would necessarily be something Shepard would know about a character, the subject simply never came up. No one asked, and no one told, for whatever reason, including Shepard. And there could be a lot of reasons it never came up. Just because a person is bisexual doesn't mean they are attracted to both sexes equally, after all. Maybe Kaidan/Ashley/whoever just wasn't attracted to same-sex Shepard at first. Maybe they assumed same-sex Shepard was heterosexual. There's a lot of maybes we could explore. There is room for interpretation here, it wouldn't automatically suck writing-wise, and it might actually be okay. I'm going to give BioWare the benefit of the doubt that they could pull it off if they chose to go that route. 

[shepskisaac]

NICKjnp wrote...

True...but the ME series isn't a dating sim. There are choices in ME2 that will affect ME3. You are requiring them to start a new game in order to have the option.

At least 1 new male s/s LI is already confirmed. It's already a fact, it's happening etc. That means no one will miss on s/s romances completly even if he killed everyone he could in the previous games. The discussion now is to have more than just 1 male s/s LI and to have that other option be something that provides the trilogy experience which is only possible with old LIs.

[AngelicMachinery]

RinjiRenee wrote...

People who have had Kaidan dead from the beginning probably won't mind a new s/s LI, which there will be (probably Vega at this rate).  For all we know, he's being created JUST for that extra s/s option.

/controversial statement

Do you actually think this is the case?  I've pondered it but I don't THINK this is what happened...  I would hope that characters were included because they had some point in the story and not to fill a slot of M/M.  

[Rinji the Bearded]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

People who have had Kaidan dead from the beginning probably won't mind a new s/s LI, which there will be (probably Vega at this rate).  For all we know, he's being created JUST for that extra s/s option.

/controversial statement

Do you actually think this is the case?  I've pondered it but I don't THINK this is what happened...  I would hope that characters were included because they had some point in the story and not to fill a slot of M/M.  

I HOPE it isn't the case.  I  guess we'll see how he fits into the story when we play it.

It was kinda why I never liked Thane.  He was basically a romance story with legs.  No real substance to the story besides giving girls another romance option (or at least this is what I got from him).

[NICKjnp]

Why are people being hostile towards me? I'm not against s/s options for maleshep or femshep. I simply don't want old characters to be the s/s option but rather the new ones.

[Rinji the Bearded]

NICKjnp wrote...

Why are people being hostile towards me? I'm not against s/s options for maleshep or femshep. I simply don't want old characters to be the s/s option but rather the new ones.

That's fine to not want that, but you're going to have to expect some opposition on this thread.

[AngelicMachinery]

RinjiRenee wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

People who have had Kaidan dead from the beginning probably won't mind a new s/s LI, which there will be (probably Vega at this rate).  For all we know, he's being created JUST for that extra s/s option.

/controversial statement

Do you actually think this is the case?  I've pondered it but I don't THINK this is what happened...  I would hope that characters were included because they had some point in the story and not to fill a slot of M/M.  

I HOPE it isn't the case.  I  guess we'll see how he fits into the story when we play it.

It was kinda why I never liked Thane.  He was basically a romance story with legs.  No real substance to the story besides giving girls another romance option (or at least this is what I got from him).

I've heard people say that,  but,  Thane to me was anything but Romantic.  I'm not a fan of dead wife syndrome particularly when the character in posession of a perfect recollection of everything that has ever happened to them.  It just gave me the creeps,  the only part of that romance I would have found amusing would have involved Koylat being forced to call Shepard Mommy.  Alas, this did not happen... 

Of course I've never been all that typical.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 20 juin 2011 - 05:36 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I've heard people say that,  but,  Thane to me was anything but Romantic.  I'm not a fan of dead wife syndrome particularly when the character in posession of it posseses perfect recollection of everything that has ever happened to them.  It just gave me the creeps,  the only part of that romance I would have found amusing would have involved Koylat being forced to call Shepard Mommy.  Alas, this did not happen... 

Of course I've never been all that typical.

It wouldn't be the first time girls fell for someone who was a little more dark and tragic, ahaha.  Don't worry, I found him rather creepy as well.

[AngelicMachinery]

NICKjnp wrote...

Why are people being hostile towards me? I'm not against s/s options for maleshep or femshep. I simply don't want old characters to be the s/s option but rather the new ones.

I wouldn't say anyone is being hostile,  we're just advocating the right to allow people their oppinions.  It just might seem a bit agressive because your currently discussing this with four people who don't see things the same way you do.