25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Psychotic Killer Cheeseburger wrote...

elektrego, why didn't you, they don't complain about my repetitive pro femsheply ranting xD

I know this isn't on topic but I've never been one to follow the rules...

Everytime you post I want a a cheeseburger!  Preferably either one from In-N-Out or homemade with just cheddar cheese, bacon and BBQ sauce. Psychotic killerness optional.

Phew! I'm not the only one.  To be fair, that DOES sound like a killer cheeseburger, although maybe not psychotic. 

On-topic: I'd love for Shepard and his/her s/s LI to be able to have cheeseburgers together. (Reaching, I know...)

[Destroy Raiden_]

Ok sense I've got a few people saying x,y, and z on my most recent post.

Garrus wasn't retconed actually he admits he doesn't like any other human but shep.

For Tali being retconed that's a natural progression from ME - ME2 what isn't a natural progression is say Ash falling in love with Mshep and not fshep in 1 then in 3 she shows up wanting fshep when prior evidence ingame is friendly demour towards fshep and her sister saying you should go for Kaiden.

Using Ran's statement on her willingness to link suits with Tali's mom and therefore also showing the Quarian attitude to s/s linking is friendly is not weak it's just you don't like that fact.

Jack did confess she use to have bi relationships but people choose to ignore the fact she says she didn't like it and tells fshep to f-off but with mshep she says lets do it she's not bi either those days are over for her.

And Kaiden's loosing a limb argument translates bi how? It also works for the straight argument in that you loose your close friend and commander and the whole reason you did all the things you did to take down saren so yeah him losing shep was horrible aka like loosing an arm.

I suppose someone will eventually sight fshep and Ash hugged on Horizon so Ash must be bi for shep because of that.

So I still stand by my prior post.


No to all past LI being made s/s options for 3

fine with brandnew characters (like vegas) being made s/s options for 3

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 20 juin 2011 - 06:43 .

[Eternal Dust]

Did someone say In-N-Out?

But anyway, I think maybe we should ask the mods for permission first and limit the image posting to links?

[Maugrim]

EDIT: NVM mixed posters up.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 20 juin 2011 - 06:51 .

[XX55XX]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Ok sense I've got a few people saying x,y, and z on my most recent post.

Garrus wasn't retconed actually he admits he doesn't like any other human but shep.

For Tali being retconed that's a natural progression from ME - ME2 what isn't a natural progression is say Ash falling in love with Mshep and not fshep in 1 then in 3 she shows up wanting fshep when prior evidence ingame is friendly demour towards fshep and her sister saying you should go for Kaiden.

Using Ran's statement on her willingness to link suits with Tali's mom and therefore also showing the Quarian attitude to s/s linking is friendly is not weak it's just you don't like that fact.

Jack did confess she use to have bi relationships but people choose to ignore the fact she says she didn't like it and tells fshep to f-off but with mshep she says lets do it she's not bi either those days are over for her.

And Kaiden's loosing a limb argument translates bi how? It also works for the straight argument in that you loose your close friend and commander and the whole reason you did all the things you did to take down saren so yeah him losing shep was horrible aka like loosing an arm.

I suppose someone will eventually sight fshep and Ash hugged on Horizon so Ash must be bi for shep because of that.

So I still stand by my prior post.


No to all past LI being made s/s options for 3

fine with brandnew characters (like vegas) being made s/s options for 3

Well argued. Some people want to change people's characters completely so that it fits with what they want from their game. 

If there are new characters to be introduced, then I would welcome them as possible homosexual romances for those that want them. Otherwise... I suggest that BioWare avoids retconning a character's sexuality entirely. 

I still think that it's possible for Tali and Jack to be bisexual, however. They were probably both uncomfortable about confronting their homosexual tendencies in ME2, especially Jack. But, to make everyone bisexual is stretching it a bit too far. 

[Psychotic Killer Cheeseburger]

everyone is too far, i agree with you on that, i for one can't see tali in any kind of romance with shep, but other people can, so they have a right to this aspect of the game,

just as all my felllow femsheply supporters are entiteled to their opinion, and since we/they are the ones who have been voicing their opinion on the subject for the longest time it would be unfair by bioware, along wit those in favor of kaidan, to disregard nearly 5 years of fans fighting passionatly for their wishes

Modifié par Psychotic Killer Cheeseburger, 20 juin 2011 - 07:32 .

[Siansonea]

I just wish you'd picked "Psychotic Killer Salad" as your username, PKC, then at least I'd be craving something healthy. 

On-topic: Shepard and his/her s/s LI should be able to enjoy a salad together in ME3. 

[jlb524]

XX55XX wrote...

Well argued. Some people want to change people's characters completely so that it fits with what they want from their game. 

That's not really true.  Most people that want character X open to s/s love do not think it will change their character so 'completely' or as much as you think it would, so saying people here want to change the character no matter what is false.  All it would change about said character is that now they would be open to a possible romance with the same gendered Shepard (which you can completely ignore and continue romancing them with the opposite sex Shepard).  The reasons why people like Ashley, for example (her dedication to her family/The Alliance, her brashness, sense of humor, etc) won't change if she's now open to FemShep and no one around here thinks things like these examples that make the character interesting should change. 

Unless you feel one of the more interesting things about character X is that they are straight.

Modifié par jlb524, 20 juin 2011 - 07:37 .

[LiquidGrape]

jlb524 wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Well argued. Some people want to change people's characters completely so that it fits with what they want from their game. 

That's not really true.  Most people that want character X open to s/s love do not think it will change their character so 'completely' or as much as you think it would, so saying people here want to change the character no matter what is false.  All it would change about said character is that now they would be open to a possible romance with the same gendered Shepard (which you can completely ignore and continue romancing them with the opposite sex Shepard).  The reasons why people like Ashley, for example (her dedication to her family/The Alliance, her brashness, sense of humor, etc) won't change if she's now open to FemShep and no one around here thinks things like these examples that make the character interesting should change. 

Unless you feel one of the more interesting things about character X is that they are straight.

Exactly. And this is why I will never understand the alleged "retcon" argument. If certain previous characters are elaborated upon, nothing is actually contradicted.
- There is nothing to contradict.

On the subject of sexuality alone, many bring up the meta-perspective (e.g Kaidan can only be romanced by a female Shepard so far, therefore Kaidan can only be interested in female Shepard), but that doesn't add up to a very convincing argument, seeing as it can only operate on a wholly superficial level external to the characterisation. It is an assumption derived from a technicality; detached from the fiction and superimposed onto the characters.

Adding another layer to that particular aspect of the characters doesn't undermine anything that has previously actually been established.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 20 juin 2011 - 07:44 .

[Maugrim]

That argument is funny (in a bash your head against the wall way). I mean no one is making the opposite argument, that because they are now bisexual that the characters are suddenly deeper or more real. Thankfully because that would be stupid. I mean really we just happen to have Shepards of the same gender that would make them interesting romance partners.

That's all there is. No conspiracy to it, sorry some of ya'll wasted your time imagining one.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 20 juin 2011 - 07:56 .

[jlb524]

I guess it hinges on how you define 'character'.

To me, it's the things that make an individual unique and interesting....the things that draw me to them. Using Liara as an example, it's her quiet/calm personality, her backstory (how she defied what was expected of her), her intelligence...things like this. Making her romance exclusive to either male or female Shepard wouldn't change any of that.   The things about her that resonate with me and draw me to her character would stay the same.

Now, 'character' could mean every last little detail about the individual. I just find some of these things not that interesting as they don't make the character special. Sexuality is one of these. The room on the Normandy where Liara prefers to hang out is another (I can't say her character would change if she picked another room to hangout in besides the med bay one); her clothing color preference, etc.

Modifié par jlb524, 20 juin 2011 - 07:55 .

[Eternal Dust]

Wow, stuck on page 2?

Unless we get something new to discuss (like the rumored new info on romances for last week *cough*), I think the topic is going to run out of steam soon.

[Roachbugg]

Well im only 75 pages late i read the first twenty did i miss any thing?

[Siansonea]

@Roachbugg: You've probably missed a thing or two, but feel free to jump in.

[Roachbugg]

Only if i can jump into Kaiden's arms. I love the voice actor for him i really wanted a carth male revan romance would have been fun but ill settle for kaiden and mshep.

[Siansonea]

@Rouchbugg: You're in good company, we've got a number of ManShep/Kaidan fans around here. You'll find IsaacShep a kindred spirit, no doubt. There are also s/s supporters who don't favor Kaidan as a bisexual character, but we all accept each other's preferences here.

[Destroy Raiden_]

jlb524 wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Well argued. Some people want to change people's characters completely so that it fits with what they want from their game. 

That's not really true.  Most people that want character X open to s/s love do not think it will change their character so 'completely' or as much as you think it would, so saying people here want to change the character no matter what is false.  All it would change about said character is that now they would be open to a possible romance with the same gendered Shepard (which you can completely ignore and continue romancing them with the opposite sex Shepard).  The reasons why people like Ashley, for example (her dedication to her family/The Alliance, her brashness, sense of humor, etc) won't change if she's now open to FemShep and no one around here thinks things like these examples that make the character interesting should change. 

Unless you feel one of the more interesting things about character X is that they are straight.

Some people do link sexuality with ones character/who they are so when someone says changing my character will ruin them they mean it.

The easiest way to see how society views character and sexuality is in high school you are grouped by what sex you like, what things you like, and what skills you choose to fallow those things all join to make someones character what it is. Take away or shift those you move that person into a new station or group. This change in group will effect how people view them some view the group change positively while others see it as less that person loses character and merit when they change groups.

The first thing kids want to find out about each other is if they like girls or boys, then they want to know what do you like, then they want to know what area of study you will undertake this determines your place in the world on a social and treatment scale proclaiming you're bi or gay changes your social standing and who people think you are you will lose people and you will gain people based off these characteristics. So saying changing a game characters preferences doesn't change their standing is false, it does. This person will be seen as losing merits to their character and standing to some and to others it will be seen as gaining character and standing.

[78stonewobble]

NICKjnp wrote...

Why are people being hostile towards me? I'm not against s/s options for maleshep or femshep. I simply don't want old characters to be the s/s option but rather the new ones.

Njyah I don't think people are hostile as much as not agreeing. 

I would also rather have the old characters stay exactly as they were.

But we can't have everything we wan't in life and as I've said plenty of times I'd buy the game no matter what.

[Siansonea]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Well argued. Some people want to change people's characters completely so that it fits with what they want from their game. 

That's not really true.  Most people that want character X open to s/s love do not think it will change their character so 'completely' or as much as you think it would, so saying people here want to change the character no matter what is false.  All it would change about said character is that now they would be open to a possible romance with the same gendered Shepard (which you can completely ignore and continue romancing them with the opposite sex Shepard).  The reasons why people like Ashley, for example (her dedication to her family/The Alliance, her brashness, sense of humor, etc) won't change if she's now open to FemShep and no one around here thinks things like these examples that make the character interesting should change. 

Unless you feel one of the more interesting things about character X is that they are straight.

Some people do link sexuality with ones character/who they are so when someone says changing my character will ruin them they mean it.

The easiest way to see how society views character and sexuality is in high school you are grouped by what sex you like, what things you like, and what skills you choose to fallow those things all join to make someones character what it is. Take away or shift those you move that person into a new station or group. This change in group will effect how people view them some view the group change positively while others see it as less that person loses character and merit when they change groups.

The first thing kids want to find out about each other is if they like girls or boys, then they want to know what do you like, then they want to know what area of study you will undertake this determines your place in the world on a social and treatment scale proclaiming you're bi or gay changes your social standing and who people think you are you will lose people and you will gain people based off these characteristics. So saying changing a game characters preferences doesn't change their standing is false, it does. This person will be seen as losing merits to their character and standing to some and to others it will be seen as gaining character and standing.

From a player perspective I can see this to be true more or less, but from an in-game perspective I think we have to question the premise. This is a fictional universe that represents our future over 150 years from now. Compare modern-day attitudes to Civil-War-era attitudes, and we see a tremendous paradigm shift in attitudes across the board, and as you go back in history you see lots of changes in societal attitudes over the centuries. It would be unlikely, I think, for human society in 2183 to be as fixated on comparative sexuality as today's society is, especially in a social climate that includes aliens, and human romantic pairings with those aliens (most notably asari). Compared to having it off with an alien, simply having sex with a member of your own gender is kind of not a big deal, or at least I imagine by 2183 most of humanity would have long gotten over that hangup. So being gay or bisexual wouldn't have as dramatic an affect on a person's socialization, because it would carry less weight in social interaction. Humans do as their parents do, it's all cultural conditioning, and given what we know about the fictional ME universe, it seems like homosexuality and bisexuality are pretty much non-issues for "mainstream" society at least. That's my take, anyway. I just think we can't copy and paste our 2011 real-world social situation into the 2183-5 fictional Mass Effect society, we have to recognize a degree of change must have taken place, and much of the resource material seems to support this.

[ElitePinecone]

RinjiRenee wrote...

People who have had Kaidan dead from the beginning probably won't mind a new s/s LI, which there will be (probably Vega at this rate).  For all we know, he's being created JUST for that extra s/s option.

/controversial statement

This isn't true, thankfully. 

Vega was announced before the decision to go ahead with S/S was made (and before ME3 was delayed, giving the developers more time to work on the game). He featured in many of the game previews quite a while before the decision was made internally in Bioware to proceed with S/S, assuming (as I am) that the decision was made after the initial round of magazine articles was written.

Originally called James Sanders, his role was to introduce new players to ME3 into the political machinations of the ME universe and serve as a purely military character that could have all the concepts of galactic politics explained to him by other characters (and, by extension, new players).

It's possible his name change was part of his rebranding as an s/s option, although it's very early days and perhaps even too early to speculate. I'd tend to think, though, that given the marketing line we've seen and his exaggerated physical appearance (as well as the appeal to the shooter crowd) that he won't be S/S.

[jeweledleah]

I believe James's name was changed due to player speculation if he was related to a different character in ME universe - Kaylee Sanders. easier to just change the name, then keep telling people, that there's no relation. as for exaggerated appearance and s/s option - why not? I didn't realize gay men weren't attracted to muscular physique and had a height limit. in fact, I think he would make a great s/s option because of it. opinion that gay men cannot be badasses is far too widespread and James Vega being large badass of a man and gay or bisexual would at a minimum start breaking that unfortunate stereotype.

[78stonewobble]

I am one of those who link sexual preferences as part of a persons character.

Sure in the game it's as simple as setting a flag in some bit of software and thats all it changes. However in real life. Think of how much eg. your relationships (partially decided by your sexuality) have shaped yourself as a person and then remove them and the lessions from these relationships from yourself.

Sure we are not "just" our sexual preferences. There's a helluva lot more to each of us than that but it is part of our character and it continiously shapes our character by just being as it is.

Just my 5 cents offcourse.

[78stonewobble]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Exactly. And this is why I will never understand the alleged "retcon" argument. If certain previous characters are elaborated upon, nothing is actually contradicted.
- There is nothing to contradict.

On the subject of sexuality alone, many bring up the meta-perspective (e.g Kaidan can only be romanced by a female Shepard so far, therefore Kaidan can only be interested in female Shepard), but that doesn't add up to a very convincing argument, seeing as it can only operate on a wholly superficial level external to the characterisation. It is an assumption derived from a technicality; detached from the fiction and superimposed onto the characters.

Adding another layer to that particular aspect of the characters doesn't undermine anything that has previously actually been established.

Well I do find it a logical assumption. Sorry

You might call it a technicality but it was a pretty damn game experience shaping technicality to me atleast. I don't really think you can detach the ability to romance kaidan (or not) from the fiction since that specifical interactivity is part of and shaping the fiction.  

Which leads to a contradiction. For me...

[shepskisaac]

People talk how it would change the character yet no one managed to say what exactly would've changed.