25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Knightly_BW]

LiaraShepard wrote...

@Asperius

that's right what you say about miranda and morrigan. but it just makes them more complex I think. I want only one man who's like them and I totally prefer him with a rough exterior and who's created to be perfect but with a deep wound.

Well... on male's side I can say nonLI ones more complex than LIs. That maybe make them less complex than females however that doesn't make them less interesting in some cases. Alistair, Zevran, Fenris, Thane... all of them very interesting characters and don't share a common ground. I can even say Alistair is very unique LI, he is funny, whinny, stubborn, childlike, dumb and sweet. Nice package.

Two cliches about male LI worth giving up tho';
- Carth Onasi syndrome (dead wife/lover/relative/dog of neighbour and lingering effects on character)
- Non elf male S/S LI for Dragon Age.   Only elf males or crazy apostate terrorists dig males on Thedas I guess.

[Collider]

Oh no, I have noticed the difference in writing style.

However, I'm not entirely fond of the Ice Queens. Sometimes it's like they exist to glorify the male protagonist.

[LiaraShepard]

Collider wrote...

Oh no, I have noticed the difference in writing style.

However, I'm not entirely fond of the Ice Queens. Sometimes it's like they exist to glorify the male protagonist.

I don't know if I'd be fond of an ICE king...I just wish there was someone to finally test it out....and not another female Ice queen. there are always so many of them.

[buffytb]

Blegh. I started a brand new playthrough two nights ago so I could FINALLY go after Kaidan... but we were virtually kicked in the nuts yesterday? Ugh. Hope the SA rumor still turns out to be true.

[Ryzaki]

Collider wrote...

Aren't Garrus and Thane commonly thought to be "badass"?

I find Garrus badass.

Thane lost that title when he pulled that "I'm not responsible for the killing I'm just a weapon." nonsense.

And frankly I want a nice Ice King male LI. Jacob would've been a good example if he didn't start off so damn friendly and revert to being prickly.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 février 2012 - 05:25 .

[SolidBeast]

Asperius wrote...
I can even say Alistair is very unique LI, he is funny, whinny, stubborn, childlike, dumb and sweet. Nice package.

Nice package indeed.

[coldSnap]

Are you just focusing on love interest, or more specifically HUMAN male love interests. If thats the case then you're obviously gonna snip quite a bit of the more male "badass" characters from you're list like Thane, Garrus, Zaeed, Grunt, Mordin (yes I think he's badass).

And honestly the human male characters, imo, are badass in that both Jacob and Kaidan are emotionally stable and they only go to get Sheps help out of reluctance, like when Jacob said he didn't want to bother Shep with his problem.

Take what you will from that. It's just my to cents.

[bas_kon]

I think Kaidan is very assertive but not pushy, he's strong, level-headed, atractive and is not cocky about it that's why he's my favourite character and I'd like to romance him with my cannon Shep.

In fact, I find female characters in games unatractive, because of their constant need to say how strong and smart they are as if they were trying to convince themselves as well as the PC. Kind of when Ash talked about Williams women only do things when they wanted or the kicked your ass, or the conversation you had with Miranda after talking to TIM for the 1st time.

Modifié par bas_kon, 25 février 2012 - 05:32 .

[Abispa]

Most LIs have "flaws" and weaknesses, otherwise they're "boring and stupid." Poor Jacob. This is a business, and RPG writers aren't going to waste their time creating LIs that the fans aren't going to bother using and constantly complain about.

When I'm talking about "strong" vs. "weak" characters, especially among genders, I am referring to how they approach the hero as LIs. Female characters in Bioware games appear to be more aggressive about relationships, which is why I laugh when they're called "ninjamances" since they come of as subtle as a rhino. They want it, bad.

The male LIs want it bad, too, but they always seem to wait around like the shy nerds in high school hoping that the female will say it's okay to ask them out. They make cute complements and just stand there, waiting (Alistair), or they trip over themselves (Kaidan). Zevran was the one that comes the closest to being sexually aggressive, but even he slips in the polite, "If you want to, that is."

I am curious to see how the implementation of s/s LIs, especially the bi or pansexual ones, may change up the Bioware formulas. We already know that there are self-proclaimed straight male gamers who have been psychologically scarred forever by having a desperate male LI hit on them and reacting negatively to being turned down.

I also would like to see all the data that Microsoft and EA have been getting about how players play RPGs, especially Fable, DA, and Skyrim. It seems to be clear that, regardless of all the BSN rage, s/s romances, even m/m, must be more popular than many think. In addition to Microsoft, Bethesda, and EA, even Capcom has supposedly started to create s/s LIs.

This thread has many self-proclaimed "straight" gamers who play gay and lesbian heroes, so that need not be a sign that there is an army of gay players out there taking over RPGs. Perhaps RPG players are busy actually *gasp* role-playing gay/bi characters, even male ones. If so, I really wish some of them would post on BSN more often than the raging s/s critics. I'm really getting tired of "straight male gamers" pretending they speak for ME and other SMGs who don't mind sharing their bros and LIs with s/s RPG players.

[LukaCrosszeria]

buffytb wrote...

Blegh. I started a brand new playthrough two nights ago so I could FINALLY go after Kaidan... but we were virtually kicked in the nuts yesterday? Ugh. Hope the SA rumor still turns out to be true.

I think that guy is pretty reliable. On the SA forum if you talk garbage, you end up with a rap sheet. He's not on it and he's posting still today. If he was full of it, he'd have been busted already.

The only possible way he could be wrong is if the game has changed from the version he has.

I've thought about shooting the Berlin balloon. Slingshot should do it. They should have launched more balloons. <_<

Modifié par LukaCrosszeria, 25 février 2012 - 05:39 .

[Knightly_BW]

SolidBeast wrote...

Asperius wrote...
I can even say Alistair is very unique LI, he is funny, whinny, stubborn, childlike, dumb and sweet. Nice package.

Nice package indeed.

Also you can give him any package you want if you use Natural Bodies.

Yeah sometimes those bolded sides of him get on my nerves but his humor and sweetness always win. Also if he wasn't that dumb I wouldn't carry him and Morrigan on my teams. Their banters are best.

[shepskisaac]

Kaidan not being badass and boring is one of my favorite arguments. Don't these people realize he's possibly more dangerous than Jack?

[LukaCrosszeria]

Asperius wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

Asperius wrote...
I can even say Alistair is very unique LI, he is funny, whinny, stubborn, childlike, dumb and sweet. Nice package.

Nice package indeed.

Also you can give him any package you want if you use Natural Bodies.

Yeah sometimes those bolded sides of him get on my nerves but his humor and sweetness always win. Also if he wasn't that dumb I wouldn't carry him and Morrigan on my teams. Their banters are best.

Alistair would have been great for a Warden of either gender. And the devs teased! Morrigan remarking how Alistair was afraid she'd take his favorite Warden away, that he was jealous, the lamppost in winter conversation... Little things that happened, regardless of the Warden's gender. But alas.

[Abispa]

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

Alistair would have been great for a Warden of either gender. And the devs teased! Morrigan remarking how Alistair was afraid she'd take his favorite Warden away, that he was jealous, the lamppost in winter conversation... Little things that happened, regardless of the Warden's gender. But alas.

I can't remember where, maybe someone here knows how to find it and post it, but I believe a writer from DA:O agrees with you. I think it just shows the difference in Bioware's mindset from DA:O to DA2. In the first game the thinking was, "We already got Zevran as the bi m/m LI, so Alistair is straight." In DA2 the thinking was, "Let the player decide who s/he wants to romance with whatever gender hero."

Both systems are unrealistic and imperfect, but I prefer the second. It's stupid to argue that DA:O's romances were "better written or realistic" because gender was virtually the ONLY limitation in romancing them.

[SolidBeast]

IsaacShep wrote...

Kaidan not being badass and boring is one of my favorite arguments. Don't these people realize he's possibly more dangerous than Jack?

He doesn't spend the entire game talking about it, so, of course not.

[jeweledleah]

Abispa wrote...

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

Alistair would have been great for a Warden of either gender. And the devs teased! Morrigan remarking how Alistair was afraid she'd take his favorite Warden away, that he was jealous, the lamppost in winter conversation... Little things that happened, regardless of the Warden's gender. But alas.

I can't remember where, maybe someone here knows how to find it and post it, but I believe a writer from DA:O agrees with you. I think it just shows the difference in Bioware's mindset from DA:O to DA2. In the first game the thinking was, "We already got Zevran as the bi m/m LI, so Alistair is straight." In DA2 the thinking was, "Let the player decide who s/he wants to romance with whatever gender hero."

Both systems are unrealistic and imperfect, but I prefer the second. It's stupid to argue that DA:O's romances were "better written or realistic" because gender was virtually the ONLY limitation in romancing them.

IMO DAO romances were better written becasue they had more neuance to them, could be started in a variety of ways, and progress in a variety of ways.  unforutnately apparently it was only possible because of unvoiced PC and having to voice not one but 2, drasticaly shrunk the number of lines and situations that could be added.  that and ridiculously short development period. and no, gender was not the only limitation in romancing them, especialy if you didn't cheat for affection with feastday gifts.aside form that - in DAO, how you spoke to companionsand choices you made - mattered in how they would see you.  feastday gifts made that particular mechanic - obsolete, sadly.

[shepskisaac]

SolidBeast wrote...

He doesn't spend the entire game talking about it, so, of course not.

Which is silly. On one side, people want better writing, on the other, they don't bother to analyze anything that's said unless it's telegraphed to them on a giant display over and over again.

[Knightly_BW]

Abispa wrote...

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

Alistair would have been great for a Warden of either gender. And the devs teased! Morrigan remarking how Alistair was afraid she'd take his favorite Warden away, that he was jealous, the lamppost in winter conversation... Little things that happened, regardless of the Warden's gender. But alas.

I can't remember where, maybe someone here knows how to find it and post it, but I believe a writer from DA:O agrees with you. I think it just shows the difference in Bioware's mindset from DA:O to DA2. In the first game the thinking was, "We already got Zevran as the bi m/m LI, so Alistair is straight." In DA2 the thinking was, "Let the player decide who s/he wants to romance with whatever gender hero."

Both systems are unrealistic and imperfect, but I prefer the second. It's stupid to argue that DA:O's romances were "better written or realistic" because gender was virtually the ONLY limitation in romancing them.

I also remember that Mr. Gaider told Alistair can be S/S option as well. However I think real obstacle was Morrigan as that would leave him only straight LI. She would carve the eyes out of female Warden if she'd hit on her. As she is one good character all is forvigen on my account. After all I romanced with Alistair as male warden many times thanks to mods.

Also Zevran was better than Fenris and Anders together.... Even on his DA 2 cameo.

[SolidBeast]

IsaacShep wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

He doesn't spend the entire game talking about it, so, of course not.

Which is silly. On one side, people want better writing, on the other, they don't bother to analyze anything that's said unless it's telegraphed to them on a giant display over and over again.

Exactly.

But I don't give a ****, Kaidan's my badass either way. <3

[KillTheLastRomantic]

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

Asperius wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

Asperius wrote...
I can even say Alistair is very unique LI, he is funny, whinny, stubborn, childlike, dumb and sweet. Nice package.

Nice package indeed.

Also you can give him any package you want if you use Natural Bodies.

Yeah sometimes those bolded sides of him get on my nerves but his humor and sweetness always win. Also if he wasn't that dumb I wouldn't carry him and Morrigan on my teams. Their banters are best.

Alistair would have been great for a Warden of either gender. And the devs teased! Morrigan remarking how Alistair was afraid she'd take his favorite Warden away, that he was jealous, the lamppost in winter conversation... Little things that happened, regardless of the Warden's gender. But alas.

Easily my favourite Bioware character and love interest. I was gutted when things didn't go anywhere after the lampost in winter conversation. Thank the lord for mods!

[SolidBeast]

Asperius wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

Asperius wrote...
I can even say Alistair is very unique LI, he is funny, whinny, stubborn, childlike, dumb and sweet. Nice package.

Nice package indeed.

Also you can give him any package you want if you use Natural Bodies.

I still prefer to give him a rope on the landsmeet.

[Abispa]

jeweledleah wrote...

IMO DAO romances were better written becasue they had more neuance to them, could be started in a variety of ways, and progress in a variety of ways.  unforutnately apparently it was only possible because of unvoiced PC and having to voice not one but 2, drasticaly shrunk the number of lines and situations that could be added.  that and ridiculously short development period. and no, gender was not the only limitation in romancing them, especialy if you didn't cheat for affection with feastday gifts.aside form that - in DAO, how you spoke to companionsand choices you made - mattered in how they would see you.  feastday gifts made that particular mechanic - obsolete, sadly.

But many did abuse the gift system, and that system was PROVIDED BY BIOWARE, establishing that players don't REALLY want totally "realistic" LIs, they just want to choose the LI they like. No matter how well written they are, LIs are nothing more than accessories RPG players use to customize their heroes.

RPG aren't movies or novels. Players like choices. They like creating their heroes. They like choosing their lovers. They like dressing up their companions and choosing their skill sets. I can understand you having different demands than I on what makes for a fun RPG experience, but for myself, video games are, by their vary nature, ENTIRELY A FAN SERVICE. Given that RPG players seem to like [unrealistic] choices, I think it would be a good idea that DA3 writers improve the friendship/rivarly system to "help immersion" and bring back customizable party members.

It annoys me greatly that s/s critics [I'm NOT saying you, JeweledLeah] seem to think that such player tendencies are only wrong if the player is playing a s/s hero, or that it is the s/s romances that are the LAST STRAW in ruining "realistic" romances. Hell, we've even had people posting there that seemed to think DA:O was perfect, and only seemed to be able to site bisexuality as the reason DA2 LIs lacked "integrity" and "realism."

[Akrim_Drak]

Abispa wrote...

But many did abuse the gift system, and that system was PROVIDED BY BIOWARE, establishing that players don't REALLY want totally "realistic" LIs, they just want to choose the LI they like. No matter how well written they are, LIs are nothing more than accessories RPG players use to customize their heroes.

Zevran did make a FANTASTIC handbag. 

[Abispa]

Akrim_Drak wrote...

Abispa wrote...

But many did abuse the gift system, and that system was PROVIDED BY BIOWARE, establishing that players don't REALLY want totally "realistic" LIs, they just want to choose the LI they like. No matter how well written they are, LIs are nothing more than accessories RPG players use to customize their heroes.

Zevran did make a FANTASTIC handbag. 

Leliana was my man-purse.

[Ricvenart]

Alistar and Non Noble Romance

Always felt this scene would have worked just as well as a m/m romance, aside from the silent wardens reply "I don't see how that affects us" maybe not working on the same level, though it could have been easily changed.
Kind of interesting though how the whole scene isn't tainted by gender neutrality or made worse because of it, even though Alistar wasn't bi, it still simply isn't brought up, because it's not really the issue there.

For laughs: Have you ever licked a lamp post in Winter?