25715 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

1) Enter s/s romance thread.
2) Make post about pandering and fanservice.
3) Something exciting happens.
4) Profit!

[Maugrim]

What's with the goldfish memory act thread regulars?  Look I get falling for and jumping on the news guys but are we all going to stumble over ourselves to question the old hands who are doing you know what?  They've never given coherent, logical non-prejudiced answers before and it's not going to happen ever.

So really there is no point unless ya'll just really bored....

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 26 février 2012 - 07:49 .

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

What about the straight audience and the many straight romances?

There can't be 'contextual bisexuality hacks' without those.

I have to agree. If they're "pandering" to the gays, they're also pandering to the straights. Pandering everywhere.

But we all like our pandering. It's nice to feel special.

I support pandering to gays, straights, bisexuals, transexuals, etc.

[Maugrim]

Or as we say it in gif form.

[Collider]

transexuals

I'm intrigued by this part, actually. So far transgenderism in Bioware games have generally been used for jokes. Regrettably so.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Or as we say it in gif form.

LOL. 

[Uhh.. Jonah]

Collider wrote...

transexuals

I'm intrigued by this part, actually. So far transgenderism in Bioware games have generally been used for jokes. Regrettably so.

I think you can have sex with one in DA2, I think. 

[Arik7]

I'm pretty sure most m/m romance supporters would be content with a new bi/gay squadmate LI, such as Vega for example. Nobody forced BioWare to make Kaidan open to s/s romance in ME3. It was their writers' intention, if the rumors are to be believed.  If this thread is any indication, Kaidan is a popular character among gay men and he can be presented believably as a bisexual.   For most straight men, he is dead anyway. No harm done.

Modifié par Arik7, 26 février 2012 - 08:03 .

[Collider]

Uhh.. Jonah wrote...

Collider wrote...

transexuals

I'm intrigued by this part, actually. So far transgenderism in Bioware games have generally been used for jokes. Regrettably so.

I think you can have sex with one in DA2, I think.

But is it played for laughs or presented as icky? Probably.
And even if it wasn't, just going with sex probably isn't the best way.

[Maugrim]

Collider wrote...

Uhh.. Jonah wrote...

Collider wrote...

transexuals

I'm intrigued by this part, actually. So far transgenderism in Bioware games have generally been used for jokes. Regrettably so.

I think you can have sex with one in DA2, I think.

But is it played for laughs or presented as icky? Probably.
And even if it wasn't, just going with sex probably isn't the best way.

The encounter with the transexual Serendipity Is played pretty straight, if you'll pardon the term.  Truth is I doubt anyone recognizes it's a transexual until they hear the voice IIRC correctly there are no snide remarks made or overhead. 

Then Serendipity show up in Mark of the Assassin as the companion of the Seneschal Bran.  There was an unfortunate bug that made things look really, really bad by skipping/playing the wrong dialogue.  The DA2 writers immediately apologized even though it wasn't supposed to be like that.

ETA: The thread, if you are interested.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 26 février 2012 - 08:10 .

[Yuqi]

KaidanLover wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

I heard the news about Kaiden and Ash, thats awsome. I saw the kaiden dialouge, but has someone posted the Ash dialouge yet?

A bishonen m-shpe..uhm no...A Vega like handsome,maybe..

The dialogue was fake. Created by Klace to... get attention i guess.

But we have another reliable source that says the VS is s/s romancable.

Awsome.Catfight over new defualt jane..intresting.

The fact is the straight community, has gotten all of the best options so far. The f/f community has at least had Liara, but  up until ME3 the m/m community has had nobody. So they deserve to have some pandering after 2 games of practicly nothing.

Modifié par Yuqi, 26 février 2012 - 08:06 .

[Espurr]

jlb524 wrote...

1) Enter s/s romance thread.
2) Make post about pandering and fanservice.
3) Something exciting happens.
4) Profit!

Lol.

Also gonna add my voice to the chorus of "don't feed the trolls". Lets get back to underpanted hijinks.

Modifié par ToastPants, 26 février 2012 - 08:09 .

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

transexuals

I'm intrigued by this part, actually. So far transgenderism in Bioware games have generally been used for jokes. Regrettably so.

Right.  I remember what happened with Serendipity in DA2.

I would love for them to make a serious effort into the subject via an NPC/LI.

makenzieshepard wrote...

Then Serendipity show up in Mark of the Assassin as the companion of the Seneschal Bran.  There was an unfortunate bug that made things look really, really bad by skipping/playing the wrong dialogue.  The DA2 writers immediately apologized even though it wasn't supposed to be like that.

I believe Mary Kirby wrote that part and stated that the joke was supposed to be on Bran but the convo turned out weird b/c of a bug.

She acknowledge the issue and apologized...and I thought that was pretty awesome on her part.

ToastPants wrote...
Also gonna add my voice to the chorus of "don't feed the trolls". Lets get back to underpanted hijinks.

That can never go wrong.

Modifié par jlb524, 26 février 2012 - 08:13 .

[Yuqi]

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...

transexuals

I'm intrigued by this part, actually. So far transgenderism in Bioware games have generally been used for jokes. Regrettably so.

Right.  I remember what happened with Serendipity in DA2.

I would love for them to make a serious effort into the subject via an NPC/LI.

Was that the brans partner elf at the MOTA party?

[Collider]

Thanks for the information.
It's good to see that they have some sensitivity on that matter.
Though, I'd like to see a (or more, as I'm sure there are a few) transgendered characters in video games (or anywhere, to be honest) who aren't prostitutes/sex objects, evil, or played for jokes and gross-out humor.

It feels like transgenderism is still treated like an acceptable punchline in society. Sadly.

[RetroActiv]

Uhh.. Jonah wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

Carfax wrote...

Olive Oomph wrote...

Who cares about numbers in your own personal love story. A  straight woman happy with her sex life won't give a damn about that chart. Mass Effect is about giving each player their own personal story and love story as much as possible. Realism takes a back seat to that, always has, even for a straight dude shep, so your numbers how many people are this and that in reality don't interest anybody either. I generally don't care very little about numbers, so I mainly posted that chart for fun and we all could do with a little reminder, that those games are meant to be played for fun and not as an accurate representation of (your sense of) reality. Sexuality/Romance is just another variable among many. 

Mass Effect is about saving the Civilized Galaxy from the Reapers via Commander Shepard, who's an elite N7 Spec Ops Marine.....a trained killer.

If you want a game that focuses on "love" (and I use that term oh so loosely), sexuality and relationships, go play the Sims...

The reason why I brought up the numbers to begin with, is because I wanted to highlight Bioware's absurd pandering to the gay gaming community.  Thats not to say that Bioware should not appeal to their gay audience however.

I've always been in favor of exclusive gay romances in the ME series.  But when they use hacks like contextual bisexuality (Shepardsexual), or make characters that were previously known to be heterosexual bisexual to appease the vociferous minority, then I have issues with that.

That's pretty much how I feel about it. I don't care about the existing s/s romance options nor do I care about the new ones but the level of pandering here is  indeed truly rediculous. For them to change previously straight characters into bisexuals simply because a vocal minority of gamers wanted it just makes me phisically ill. I mean does BIoware have any integrity anymore? Such unnecessary and frivolous pandering to a small demographic of players will only do more harm than good.

How so? Explain to me how the negatives will outweigh the positives. 

I pretty much already explained it. In this particular case I think making  such unnecessary changes to existing characters to satisfy a very specific fan demographic  who wanted it isn't a good thing. I feel that it cheapens and underminds the characters as they have already been presented. In my opinion this kind of descision making sets a very bad precedent.

[Maugrim]

jlb524 wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Then Serendipity show up in Mark of the Assassin as the companion of the Seneschal Bran.  There was an unfortunate bug that made things look really, really bad by skipping/playing the wrong dialogue.  The DA2 writers immediately apologized even though it wasn't supposed to be like that.

I believe Mary Kirby wrote that part and stated that the joke was supposed to be on Bran but the convo turned out weird b/c of a bug.

She acknowledge the issue and apologized...and I thought that was pretty awesome on her part.

Rereading the dev responses I see I was wrong about it being a bug, it was simple a writing oversight. Link to dev responses.

Still of course the best thing was the the DA2 team didn't hide from the issue like the ME team does.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 26 février 2012 - 08:21 .

[ElitePinecone]

Yuqi wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...

transexuals

I'm intrigued by this part, actually. So far transgenderism in Bioware games have generally been used for jokes. Regrettably so.

Right.  I remember what happened with Serendipity in DA2.

I would love for them to make a serious effort into the subject via an NPC/LI.

Was that the brans partner elf at the MOTA party?

Yep. There was a bug that made Tallis say "Awkward!" right after Serendipity had finished speaking. If I remember correctly, it was meant to be aimed at something Bran said instead.

It was nice that Kirby and Gaider took the time to sort it out on the forums, but it didn't help ease the perception that all of the trans characters are used as comic relief. 

(Though while we're on that, Mark Meer did an amazing job of Jethann's voice)

[Collider]

(Though while we're on that, Mark Meer did an amazing job of Jethann's voice)

Was Jethann trans? I don't quite remember that.

[syllogi]

Collider wrote...

transexuals

I'm intrigued by this part, actually. So far transgenderism in Bioware games have generally been used for jokes. Regrettably so.

Theoretically, gender dysphoria would be dealt with earlier and in better ways than currently available in the Mass Effect universe, as transition through operations and hormones would be less of an ordeal. I suppose it would be a more "dramatic" issue if tackled in a DA game, but I'd hope that the writers would create a character who is interesting and compelling above and beyond their gender and/or sexual orientation.

[jlb524]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Rereading the dev responses I see I was wrong about it being a bug, it was simple a writing oversight. Link to her response. Or maybe not, silly link!

Still of course the best thing was the the DA2 team didn't hide from the issue like the ME team does.

Yes, and that is why I have mad respect for them.  Even in the face of all the 'lol, who cares, get over it' posts, they still responded personally (and Mary responded who was responsible for that bit of dialog...that means a lot I think).

They could of completely ignored it, but didn't.  

syllogi wrote...
Theoretically, gender dysphoria would be dealt with earlier and in better ways than currently available in the Mass Effect universe, as transition through operations and hormones would be less of an ordeal. I suppose it would be a more "dramatic" issue if tackled in a DA game, but I'd hope that the writers would create a character who is interesting and compelling above and beyond their gender and/or sexual orientation.

That's a good point.  

It drives home the notion that this shouldn't be all that defines the character. 

Modifié par jlb524, 26 février 2012 - 08:25 .

[MissOuJ]

Collider wrote...

Thanks for the information.
It's good to see that they have some sensitivity on that matter.
Though, I'd like to see a (or more, as I'm sure there are a few) transgendered characters in video games (or anywhere, to be honest) who aren't prostitutes/sex objects, evil, or played for jokes and gross-out humor.

It feels like transgenderism is still treated like an acceptable punchline in society. Sadly.

Sadly, you're right

I'd love to see a well characterised, non-stereotypical transgender/genderqueer character in a videogame - I've heard one of the Persona games has a well developed transgender character... but I've never played any of the games, so I can't be sure...

[ElitePinecone]

RetroActiv wrote...
snip

Optional content that other people get - that will never affect you, or any of your playthroughs, unless you want it to - cheapens or undermines characters?

How does it cheapen them to portray them as attracted to both genders? How does it undermine the character? Can you explain more?

Arguing that it's 'unnecessary' is subjective, for starters. A lot of people think it's welcome, and many more don't care. Bioware, clearly, think it's a good thing to do. 

The characters never said they were straight, nobody ever said they were straight, Bioware never said they were straight. There's no established character traits to go against. 

That was your interpretation. Clearly, you were wrong. With ME3, Bioware have confirmed they were never just attracted to one gender. 

I don't see what's so hard to understand about that?

[ElitePinecone]

Collider wrote...

(Though while we're on that, Mark Meer did an amazing job of Jethann's voice)

Was Jethann trans? I don't quite remember that.

No, but I was impressed with Meer's range of vocal skils. 

[jlb524]

RetroActiv wrote...

I pretty much already explained it. In this particular case I think making  such unnecessary changes to existing characters to satisfy a very specific fan demographic  who wanted it isn't a good thing. I feel that it cheapens and underminds the characters as they have already been presented. In my opinion this kind of descision making sets a very bad precedent.

Do you think any changes to characters are bad?

ElitePinecone wrote...

Collider wrote...

(Though while we're on that, Mark Meer did an amazing job of Jethann's voice)

Was Jethann trans? I don't quite remember that.

No, but I was impressed with Meer's range of vocal skils. 

Yeah, Mark is pretty damn awesome (he did the vorcha...I mean...come on!)

Modifié par jlb524, 26 février 2012 - 08:30 .