25715 réponses à ce sujet

[1136342t54_]

I'm not saying cultural taboos of Quarians or Turians don't permit S/S relationships but I wouldn't really entirely rule it out. We still don't know a lot about alien culture.

[ArawnNox]

1136342t54 wrote...

I'm not saying cultural taboos of Quarians or Turians don't permit S/S relationships but I wouldn't really entirely rule it out. We still don't know a lot about alien culture.

On pure conjecture, I susupect the level of taboo for Quarians depends entirely on how the population is doing. If numbers are in decline, then it could be very poorly regarded. If it's nearing overflow, then it is probably less of an issue.
That taboo probably applies to Quarian/Non-Quarian pairings just as much as same-sex pairings. So, in essence, there should be just as much of a taboo for Tali getting with MaleShep as FemShep, which onluy points out how gender, for that romance, shouldn't matter, from a social point of view.
Though, another factor can also be whether or not Tali has been kicked out of the Migrant Fleet. She could very well not care what her people think if she's still a part of it, and visa versa.
I'm rambling. I need sleep.

[PMC65]

1136342t54 wrote...

I'm not saying cultural taboos of Quarians or Turians don't permit S/S relationships but I wouldn't really entirely rule it out. We still don't know a lot about alien culture.

To be honest I would think that the issue would not be the same sex but different species.

When both Shepards (male/female) went aboard the quarian ship the fact that they were outsiders was clear. My Sheps felt really out of place and couldn't wait to get back on the Normandy. But that was my Shepards, yours might have felt at home.

Now if I imagine that my femshep ended up in a romance with miss Tali'Zorah vas Normandy ... I don't think her being female would be the issue.

Shepard & Tali arrive back from the SM to share their news...

Tali: "Auntie Raan! Shepard and I are together!"
Raan: "But Tali, Shepard is a .... well, a ... human!"
Tali: "But we love each other!"
Raan: "I see, but she is ...." (looks at Shepard) "Commander, you do realize how you and Tali together could not only make her sick ... she could-"
Tali: "Uh, come on Shepard, let me show you my ... I mean, our room. Bye Auntie Raan!"
Shepard: "Tali, wasn't she still talking?"
Tali: "Oh, was she?"
Raan:

Disclaimer: I did not personally talk to Admiral Shala'Raan vas Tonbay so I have no clue how the quarian view s/s (same sex) or d/s (different species)  

[78stonewobble]

ElitePinecone wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Gamepro article .... http://www.gamepro.c...hepards-choice/

Thanks for the article. I thought this was especially relevant:

"It wasn’t until male same-sex options were announced that the outcry reached mainstream levels of discussion. As much as I want to believe the discussion is actually about narrative consistency, the lack of argument consistency from those against it suggests otherwise. Because same-sex romance options break the consistency of a male Shepard just as much as they do for a female Shepard. Which is to say, not at all."

Nobody was ever raging this much about Kelly or Liara. 

For my part it has nothing to do with whether it's m/m romance/sex. Liara swung both ways from the beginning and same with Kelly (when she was introduced in ME2).

[78stonewobble]

IsaacShep wrote...

paptschik wrote...
That sounds like a pretty harsh "your opinions don't matter, so go suck it". Maybe that wasn't your intention, but I'm not sure what was.

Urhm, if an opinion is illogical, makes no sense and has no basis in facts, why exactly should it matter? When you're designing a bridge you will review all opinions & studies but in the end you won't take into account these that were found false and had no basis in facts. If you did, the bridge could collapse.

paptschik wrote...
Personal preferences and views of characters are perfectly acceptable and if someone does not like something, that is in their right.

Of course it's their right, they can think whatever they want but it doesn't mean these personal view & preferences are logical.

paptschik wrote...
And again, the article completely ignored that Shepard aside, there things are NOT in the hands of the player. So they have a basis.

What do you mean?

paptschik wrote...
I  mean, if people are against homosexuality in general...well, frankly, they can't be helped (even if they still have every right to voice their opinion somewhere). But what is suddenly so inacceptable about thinking "i would like character x to be bi, but character b to be straight"? I mean, that is something that many have said in this thread, many can see certain characters as only straight and many want their favorite characters, of course, available to the romance of their choice.

You said it yourself, people want characters to be bi to have an option to romance them, it's a gameplay gain. People who want everyone to be straight and not bi don't gain anything gameplay-wise from it, they only thing it they achieve is blocking other players from having content.

It's also quite illogical to seeing characters being bi/homosexual without an ingame basis for that assumption. That goes not just for seeing them as straight but any other variation.

In bridge design (and other buildings) aesthetics do play a major part though they're wholly subjective. From a practicality perspective outer wall colouring is irrelevant and we should all just accept concrete grey?

You yourself say that personal views and preferences are not based in fact/logic. That HAS to go both ways.

I could just as easily say that: "Your personal (and wholly subjective) preference for an all bi and even only gay new characters are not based on logic and I can thus wholly dismiss your oppinion. It's just your oppinion."

That is kinda cheap.

While all bi characters adds to some peoples game experience it might just as easily DETRACT from other persons experience.

Considering alot of the debate comes down to accept of other people and their oppinions there sure isn't alot of that accept. Since some people can wholly dismiss other peoples subjective oppinions as invalid.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 23 juin 2011 - 06:24 .

[Roachbugg]

Is it me or have people forgotten it is possible for an opinion to be wrong?

[PMC65]

Roachbugg wrote...

Is it me or have people forgotten it is possible for an opinion to be wrong?

I think people just like to argue about the same thing ... over & over.

But that is my opinion and probably wrong.

People have dug their heels in and until the game comes out ... or more likely until some new development seems worse and this thread no longer is the hot topic, will people not care anymore.

Just ask Ash and her new look. Once S/S relationships was announced she was temporarily left alone. I think she slept with Casey Hudson or hacked his twitter account to get the heat off of her.

God I love a devious woman!

[RogueState]

Roachbugg wrote...

Is it me or have people forgotten it is possible for an opinion to be wrong?

It's not you!

I agree with PMC65 that people just like to argue the same thing over and over which is fine I suppose, a healthy civilised debate is never a bad thing even if it is the same one over and over again!

Until some new information is released about who the s/s romances will actually be I think these same arguments will still be going for a while. 

So i suppose the only soluton really is for Bioware to tell us who the s/s (and all) the romances actually are, then we can move on and start whole new debates. How about it Bioware? Is that a no? Arggghhhhhh schucks!

[BrandNewMan]

While I'd be okay with an old romance character being bi, I'd rather not just to avoid the complaints. Make it Joker and Kelly and call it a day.

[AngelicMachinery]

BrandNewMan wrote...

While I'd be okay with an old romance character being bi, I'd rather not just to avoid the complaints. Make it Joker and Kelly and call it a day.

I think it would be rather lame for the S/S options to be characters who aren't squadmates.

[BrandNewMan]

Montezuma IV wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

While I'd be okay with an old romance character being bi, I'd rather not just to avoid the complaints. Make it Joker and Kelly and call it a day.

I think those are horrible choices.

Alright. Any suggestions?

[PMC65]

BrandNewMan wrote...

While I'd be okay with an old romance character being bi, I'd rather not just to avoid the complaints. Make it Joker and Kelly and call it a day.

I love your optimism ... but people will complain no matter what. Personally, I think once the game is out and the player is fighting the reapers, hugging their LI, laughing with their BFF (place character name here), they will be too giddy to care what others are doing in their homes.

I would love to be at Bioware seeing how they are going to manage all the possible storylines & variables. And you know, after reading all the concerns they will be focusing on how subtle the option is to ensure that 95% enjoys the game*. After all, ME3 won't be the last of the Mass Effect franchise (we hope).

* You will always have at least 5% find fault somewhere .. that percentage may even be higher to be honest. That is why you see "complaint" phone numbers and not "compliment" phone numbers on vehicles/businesses/etc.

[shepskisaac]

78stonewobble wrote...
It's also quite illogical to seeing characters being bi/homosexual without an ingame basis for that assumption. That goes not just for seeing them as straight but any other variation.

You yourself say that personal views and preferences are not based in fact/logic. That HAS to go both ways.

But it does. The point is that people who want some/one of the old characters to be available for s/s romance don't say "it is confirmed/100% canon they're bi based on in-game evidence". We say there's nothing in the games that would rule out this possibility, while most people who want them to be straight keep saying how lack of confirmation/denial of their bisexuality by themselves is the evidence they're straight.

BrandNewMan wrote...
Alright. Any suggestions?

Kaidan, 1 new male squaddie, 1 new female squaddie + Liara romance continuation and we're good.

[BrandNewMan]

Montezuma IV wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

While I'd be okay with an old romance character being bi, I'd rather not just to avoid the complaints. Make it Joker and Kelly and call it a day.

I think those are horrible choices.

Alright. Any suggestions?

Old Squadmates....but mostly depending on who is left. And of course a new character in the series who is BI. Or maybe even strictly Gay....but that would be unfair unless they added a strictly Lesbian character.

Which ones are you talking about? You have Wrex, Grunt, Mordin, Samara, Legion, and two characters that require dlc.

[PMC65]

Montezuma IV wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

While I'd be okay with an old romance character being bi, I'd rather not just to avoid the complaints. Make it Joker and Kelly and call it a day.

I think those are horrible choices.

Alright. Any suggestions?

Old Squadmates....but mostly depending on who is left. And of course a new character in the series who is BI. Or maybe even strictly Gay....but that would be unfair unless they added a strictly Lesbian character.

To me the term "bi" just means that the character is romanceable by either gender Shepard = greater story choices in regards to romance. After all, poor Shepard is trying to save the galaxy ... he/she needs a cuddle now & then. In-game the player, if important, can say what the characters are (straight, gay, bi, cross dresser*, Johnny Cash fan, alcoholic .... uh, you get the picture).

In my male shep game, Ash will always be straight even if in another game on the same console she is in the arms of a female Shepard. But that is just how I see the term "bi-character"

* Zaeed, I'm looking at you ... you crazy little freak! Dressing up and dancing with your Jesse.  

[78stonewobble]

Roachbugg wrote...

Is it me or have people forgotten it is possible for an opinion to be wrong?

That is rarely the case when it comes to something basically as subjective of what is the better colour red or green?

[ArawnNox]

IsaacShep wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...
It's also quite illogical to seeing characters being bi/homosexual without an ingame basis for that assumption. That goes not just for seeing them as straight but any other variation.

You yourself say that personal views and preferences are not based in fact/logic. That HAS to go both ways.

But it does. The point is that people who want some/one of the old characters to be available for s/s romance don't say "it is confirmed/100% canon they're bi based on in-game evidence". We say there's nothing in the games that would rule out this possibility, while most people who want them to be straight keep saying how lack of confirmation/denial of their bisexuality by themselves is the evidence they're straight.

Basically, both sides are using the same piece of evidence (or lack thereof) and claiming it means their side is correct. Thus, the discussion goes nowhere and we argue in circles for 70+ pages.

[ArawnNox]

78stonewobble wrote...

Roachbugg wrote...

Is it me or have people forgotten it is possible for an opinion to be wrong?

That is rarely the case when it comes to something basically as subjective of what is the better colour red or green?

Obviously the answer is "both", because that means it's Christmas!

[BrandNewMan]

Montezuma IV wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

Which ones are you talking about? You have Wrex, Grunt, Mordin, Samara, Legion, and two characters that require dlc.

I personally.....want Kaidan.

I think we have a misunderstanding. When I asked for alternatives, I wanted suggestions on characters that couldn't previously be in a relationship with, since that was the point in me listing Joker and Kelly.

[AngelicMachinery]

ArawnNox wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...
It's also quite illogical to seeing characters being bi/homosexual without an ingame basis for that assumption. That goes not just for seeing them as straight but any other variation.

You yourself say that personal views and preferences are not based in fact/logic. That HAS to go both ways.

But it does. The point is that people who want some/one of the old characters to be available for s/s romance don't say "it is confirmed/100% canon they're bi based on in-game evidence". We say there's nothing in the games that would rule out this possibility, while most people who want them to be straight keep saying how lack of confirmation/denial of their bisexuality by themselves is the evidence they're straight.

Basically, both sides are using the same piece of evidence (or lack thereof) and claiming it means their side is correct. Thus, the discussion goes nowhere and we argue in circles for 70+ pages.

Circular arguments are fun though!

[ElitePinecone]

Ideally?

Ash/Kaidan available for players who have kept them alive with same-gendered Shepard. That's actually not many people, given the trends of importing and default characters (even with the comic). Plus at least one new s/s option in ME3.

Realistically?

I don't see "old" squadmates being bisexual as likely, given the tweets we've seen. It's always possible that it's a surprise and Bioware doesn't want to spoil anything, but I think they'll err on the side of caution and prevent the storm of insanity and paranoia that was Anders.

I also don't see any exclusively 'gay' or 'lesbian' squadmates, as much as it would be nice. Commercial realities dictate that bisexual characters are easier to produce and market, in terms of audience share, and I can't see any reason why that wouldn't apply here.

So, feasibly: one, possibly (probably?) two S/S options for both genders in ME3, of some form. Likely squadmates, but could be something different. BioWare have repeatedly stressed that the squad won't work the same way as in ME/ME2.

[shepskisaac]

ArawnNox wrote...
Basically, both sides are using the same piece of evidence (or lack thereof) and claiming it means their side is correct. Thus, the discussion goes nowhere and we argue in circles for 70+ pages.

No. There's a big difference here. One side is saying the lack of evidence makes it a fact the characters are straight while the other side is saying that it is simply illogical to say lack of evidence is a proof in itself.

BrandNewMan wrote...
I think we have a misunderstanding. When I asked for alternatives, I wanted suggestions on characters that couldn't previously be in a relationship with, since that was the point in me listing Joker and Kelly.

Kaidan couldn't previously be in a relationship with ManShep, wasn't even possible to suggest it (and potentially get turned down). So his state/history with ManShep is as blank in the romantic departement as between ManShep and Anderson.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 23 juin 2011 - 03:42 .