25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Akrim_Drak]

Ricvenart wrote...

Don't think thats a big one.

Plus you hate me, so I need him for defence.

Anyway they are so cuddly. Look at him, all shocked and excited for Kaidan, ready to penatrate his armor.

*ponders posting gif of Jumbo Cactuar doing 10,000 needles*

Yes... hug the cuddly... CACTUS!

[corky_g]

Finally caught up, but took a while. Feels like the FTL thread has been moving at FTL speed

I'm very surprised to learn [based on current information] that Ash is apparently not s/s while Kaidan is. I know I'm being very selfish, but I'm just glad I get to have Kaidan. I do wish that all players could get who they want, but TBH I found it a little difficult to fully sympathize with the ladies who want Ash, because there have been f/f options all along. You may find that to be a little crass, but I was thinking about how if Kaidan wasn't available I would be content with Cortez.

Related to Ash was discussion about how the existing f/f relationships thus far have been portrayed. For example:

Village Idiot wrote...

The male gaze permeates and defines how in a certain context f/f sex is depicted.  Sure there absolutely is sexual agency given to women for women to enjoy (in the context of s/s), but this agency also possesses a certain duality that underneath the very core, is uncomfortable and misogynistic... *snip*

I don't doubt for a second that f/f relationships (Liara and others) were included to please straight men because 'teh lesbians r hawt'. Please excuse my ignorance, because I'm genuinely curious, but: how would/could/should any f/f depictions be different if they were aimed at a lesbian audience? I am aware of the 'male gaze' but frankly can't see how it applies to ME. I mean, what's been seen so far has hardly been comparable to a Cinemax women's prison scene. I would like to know, specifically, what makes the f/f content not good enough, or even offensive, to a lesbian? What do you think could have been different? Or is there dissatisfaction based solely on the perceived intent of BW?

Because I'm not sure how a shower scene can be a bad thing. I mean, no matter how cheesy, I would LOVE to have a shower scene for mShep and Kaidan


Also, there was discussion about music way back, and I can't remember who posted what (Ric, Solid?), but someone introduced me to Cosmo Jarvis who is now one my favourite new artists. I think I've listened to "Gay Pirates" about a hundred times in the last 2 days! And his other youtube videos... Cosmo seems like my kinda guy.


Edit: And wow, haven't used Akinator in about two years! I used to have alot of fun stumping it. Today, I stumped it with "Joyce Dewitt".

Modifié par corky_g, 02 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[Daashi]

Okay I went to sleep after someone posted the link to that Seteve/MShep video and it was all sunshine and puppies on this thread.

But seriously WTF happened? (Seriously I have just finished scanning through the 20 pages that were posted since I wen beddie-byes.)

[ElitePinecone]

Collider wrote...

Here's the one convo you are apparently have with Ashley:
snip

Oh for the love of..

[Collider]

As Isaac said, it's possible that this is a bug and you get more. However, I doubt this since those who have looked through the audio files said that male Shepard has a lot more to say to Ashley than female Shepard.

Ashley's conversation there would be one of 3 total in the game (besides, I assume, plot critical exchanges and talk before the final battle DA:O/DA2 style), an amount that was apparently acceptable enough for male Shepard and Kaidan in ME1.

[ElitePinecone]

Chun Hei wrote...

I would not doubt that there will be some mods working overtime during the first couple weeks of ME3 just to lay the ban hammer on trolls and angry responders. Abispa and ElitePinecone have been banned before for responding to trolls I believe so be careful about your own comments. Especially with the new rules.

I think that was more because people were flooding this thread (about four hundred pages ago) with a bunch of trolling/spamming/off-topic content, and when Stanley charged through about twenty pages he just banned anybody who had broken any kind of site rule. 

But general rule of thumb is not to reply to trolling with trolling, that includes .gifs and pictures - the mods hate it.

If the argument is too ridiculous to be even called that (like Duncaaaaaaaaan's thing yesterday that s/s stuff in ME3 had no artistic merit, or something?), it's probably not even worth diving into the thread.

It's in the game, and that's something pretty awesome in itself. 

[ElitePinecone]

SolidBeast wrote...

goodventure wrote...

Can someone answer me this? How are we so sure that all of those audio files are actually in the game? I mean, ME1 had S/S lines for Ashley and Kaidan already, but they weren't actually triggered in game. What I'm saying is, even tho Kaidan calls Shep handsome, will they actually use it?

Sorry to stir more doubt. But the fact that one Space Edition player already got Paramour kinda refutes what I'm saying.

There were no s/s lines recorded. The lines Meer read were femShep's lines because it was more convenient to do it that way due to the old paper system. That's why he refers to himself as a woman.
No such system is used this time around, it's all computerized.

Yep. 

The new dialogue recording system actually plays the conversation partner's line before Shepard records theirs (or vice versa), so Meer, Hale and the other actors/actresses know roughly the tone of what they're replying to. 
 
It means that Bioware wouldn't just record s/s lines on the off chance they ever needed them; if a line is recorded it means it has a place in the dialogue. 

[Drone223]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Collider wrote...

Here's the one convo you are apparently have with Ashley:
snip

Oh for the love of..

Yeah, hopefully this won't be the case, I'd like to talk to Ashley more on the Normandy with my femsheps

[Sherbet Lemon]

corky_g wrote...

I don't doubt for a second that f/f relationships (Liara and others) were included to please straight men because 'teh lesbians r hawt'. Please excuse my ignorance, because I'm genuinely curious, but: how would/could/should any f/f depictions be different if they were aimed at a lesbian audience? I am aware of the 'male gaze' but frankly can't see how it applies to ME. I mean, what's been seen so far has hardly been comparable to a Cinemax women's prison scene. I would like to know, specifically, what makes the f/f content not good enough, or even offensive, to a lesbian? What do you think could have been different? Or is there dissatisfaction based solely on the perceived intent of BW?

Three things I have to say up front:  I'm not hater.  I really do like and respect this company for what do and what they create.  When I criticize them, it's only because I want them to be better.  I also understand that developers and employees are only human and I'm far from perfect.  Sometimes I overthink things and am also overly critical.  I don't mean to be.  I also don't presume to speak for any or all lesbian/bi/trans/pan women.  Being a bi women myself, I also know that that identity comes with a wholly different set of "straight privileges" that isn't afforded to others.  So I really hope I don't offend.  

With that being said:

For me this is more my issue.  I think you mentioned it in your earlier paragraph.  The disproportionate amount of romances for a Lesbian/Bi Shepard versus Gay/Bi Shepard contribute to the distrust.  I know Bioware doesn't like to consider "Liara" s/s, but I've always disagreed with that notion because it comes across as distinctly fallacious.  Don't get me wrong, I love Liara (I know it's a minority opinion around these parts), but I mean, blue hot space babes who are bi/pansexual? If we look at the evidence, it's clear.  She was created for a heterosexual male audience.  Hetero male Shep has the most romances out of anyone which is not an indictment on Bioware being that they know their audience, but the thing is that history speaks in images.  Traditionally, women's bodies and women's sexual agency were taken from them and are still held in contention.  Those images don't exist in a vacuum and they all coalesce into a single understanding.  Sex was not  for us.  It was not something for women to enjoy, this was for men.  It is even for men even when someone is depicting a s/s relationship.  The Kelly dance was hot, no lie, but--without a male counterpart for gay/bi/pan maleshep and straight Femshep, there's only one logical conclusion, she was made for heteromale Shepard.

That doesn't mean that lesbian/bi/panwomen don't benefit because they do and that by-product is enjoyable.  Female Shepard is one of the BEST video game characters ever created.  But--that also doesn't mean that a history which involves objectification and fetishization of women isn't still omnipresent and furthermore, doesn't have far reaching implications despite the best intentions.  The key for me is equality.  Make sure that heteroFemShep and Gay/bi/pan also have similar options of SIMILAR quality meaning:

Because I'm not sure how a shower scene can be a bad thing. I mean, no matter how cheesy, I would LOVE to have a shower scene for mShep and Kaidan

I want that for you too.  M/M romancers should have that too.  Their romance should be just as hot because their sexual identity shouldn't be stripped from them just because we live in a society that can't handle Gay sex.  Damn gender binaries. 
And sorry, I want on a bit of a rant.  I hope that answers your question. 

[Eternal Dust]

Village Idiot wrote...

corky_g wrote...

I don't doubt for a second that f/f relationships (Liara and others) were included to please straight men because 'teh lesbians r hawt'. Please excuse my ignorance, because I'm genuinely curious, but: how would/could/should any f/f depictions be different if they were aimed at a lesbian audience? I am aware of the 'male gaze' but frankly can't see how it applies to ME. I mean, what's been seen so far has hardly been comparable to a Cinemax women's prison scene. I would like to know, specifically, what makes the f/f content not good enough, or even offensive, to a lesbian? What do you think could have been different? Or is there dissatisfaction based solely on the perceived intent of BW?

Three things I have to say up front:  I'm not hater.  I really do like and respect this company for what do and what they create.  When I criticize them, it's only because I want them to be better.  I also understand that developers and employees are only human and I'm far from perfect.  Sometimes I overthink things and am also overly critical.  I don't mean to be.  I also don't presume to speak for any or all lesbian/bi/trans/pan women.  Being a bi women myself, I also know that that identity comes with a wholly different set of "straight privileges" that isn't afforded to others.  So I really hope I don't offend.  

With that being said:

For me this is more my issue.  I think you mentioned it in your earlier paragraph.  The disproportionate amount of romances for a Lesbian/Bi Shepard versus Gay/Bi Shepard contribute to the distrust.  I know Bioware doesn't like to consider "Liara" s/s, but I've always disagreed with that notion because it comes across as distinctly fallacious.  Don't get me wrong, I love Liara (I know it's a minority opinion around these parts), but I mean, blue hot space babes who are bi/pansexual? If we look at the evidence, it's clear.  She was created for a heterosexual male audience.  Hetero male Shep has the most romances out of anyone which is not an indictment on Bioware being that they know their audience, but the thing is that history speaks in images.  Traditionally, women's bodies and women's sexual agency were taken from them and are still held in contention.  Those images don't exist in a vacuum and they all coalesce into a single understanding.  Sex was not  for us.  It was not something for women to enjoy, this was for men.  It is even for men even when someone is depicting a s/s relationship.  The Kelly dance was hot, no lie, but--without a male counterpart for gay/bi/pan maleshep and straight Femshep, there's only one logical conclusion, she was made for heteromale Shepard.

That doesn't mean that lesbian/bi/panwomen don't benefit because they do and that by-product is enjoyable.  Female Shepard is one of the BEST video game characters ever created.  But--that also doesn't mean that a history which involves objectification and fetishization of women isn't still omnipresent and furthermore, doesn't have far reaching implications despite the best intentions.  The key for me is equality.  Make sure that heteroFemShep and Gay/bi/pan also have similar options of SIMILAR quality meaning:

Because I'm not sure how a shower scene can be a bad thing. I mean, no matter how cheesy, I would LOVE to have a shower scene for mShep and Kaidan

I want that for you too.  M/M romancers should have that too.  Their romance should be just as hot because their sexual identity shouldn't be stripped from them just because we live in a society that can't handle Gay sex.  Damn gender binaries. 
And sorry, I want on a bit of a rant.  I hope that answers your question. 

A+

[goodventure]

ElitePinecone wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

goodventure wrote...

Can someone answer me this? How are we so sure that all of those audio files are actually in the game? I mean, ME1 had S/S lines for Ashley and Kaidan already, but they weren't actually triggered in game. What I'm saying is, even tho Kaidan calls Shep handsome, will they actually use it?

Sorry to stir more doubt. But the fact that one Space Edition player already got Paramour kinda refutes what I'm saying.

There were no s/s lines recorded. The lines Meer read were femShep's lines because it was more convenient to do it that way due to the old paper system. That's why he refers to himself as a woman.
No such system is used this time around, it's all computerized.

Yep. 

The new dialogue recording system actually plays the conversation partner's line before Shepard records theirs (or vice versa), so Meer, Hale and the other actors/actresses know roughly the tone of what they're replying to. 
 
It means that Bioware wouldn't just record s/s lines on the off chance they ever needed them; if a line is recorded it means it has a place in the dialogue. 

Whew, that's a relief... thanks so much for clarifying you guys. Every line has its place in the game then!

... now I'm gonna go squee reallllyy hard in the corner because it's pretty much official to me already.

[BrandNewMan]

I can't help but wonder if Bioware titles after ME3 will be radically different. They might not even feature romance, let alone s/s romance.

[Arik7]

BrandNewMan wrote...

I can't help but wonder if Bioware titles after ME3 will be radically different. They might not even feature romance, let alone s/s romance.

Mass Effect: The Next Generation
Mass Effect: Voyager
etc...

[spirosz]

Congrats on the M/M option now! I'm glad Bioware decided to open this up for players seeking this, always good to have variety.

[RomanDark]

Arik7 wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

I can't help but wonder if Bioware titles after ME3 will be radically different. They might not even feature romance, let alone s/s romance.

Mass Effect: The Next Generation
Mass Effect: Voyager
etc...

Mass Effect Voyager please! A council ship gets pulled to another galaxy and you must find a way home amidst strange new worlds and species! 

[Maugrim]

Mass Effect: Deep Space Nine, yes please!

Destined to have the best storylines and deep characterizations but always be overlooked!

[Espurr]

Don't forget Mass Effect Enterprise

[Maugrim]

ToastPants wrote...

Don't forget Mass Effect Enterprise

Cancelled only after it was getting really good?

[Espurr]

makenzieshepard wrote...

ToastPants wrote...

Don't forget Mass Effect Enterprise

Cancelled only after it was getting really good?

OBVIOUSLY. They wouldn't have it any other way.

[Abispa]

BrandNewMan wrote...

I can't help but wonder if Bioware titles after ME3 will be radically different. They might not even feature romance, let alone s/s romance.

This I SERIOUSLY doubt. Despite the whining and rancor by a small, yet very vocal, group of players, it's pretty clear that romances are pretty much a staple of Bioware's console and PC games. Even their major competitors have begun to expand their romance options, including Microsoft, Bethesda and, if rumors are correct, Capcom.



Resident Evil?



Nah.

Modifié par Abispa, 02 mars 2012 - 04:42 .

[Abispa]

ToastPants wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

ToastPants wrote...

Don't forget Mass Effect Enterprise

Cancelled only after it was getting really good?

OBVIOUSLY. They wouldn't have it any other way.

Battlestar Normandy.

[Abispa]

Arik7 wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

I can't help but wonder if Bioware titles after ME3 will be radically different. They might not even feature romance, let alone s/s romance.

Mass Effect: The Next Generation
Mass Effect: Voyager
etc...

Mass Effect: Deep Six Nine.

[FoxHound109]

I feel bad that femSheps might not get Ash. Yeah, yeah, femShep has more options and whatnot, but I know some gals really had their hearts set on her.

*Comfort*

[Ihatebadgames]

Mass Effect:The Age of Dragons.

[Espurr]

FoxHound109 wrote...

I feel bad that femSheps might not get Ash. Yeah, yeah, femShep has more options and whatnot, but I know some gals really had their hearts set on her.

*Comfort*

Yeaaah, I was one of those. I'm getting over it haha. That femshep will just have to be FOREVER ALONE.

Right now I'm just hoping the friendship path with her is better/longer than what it seems at this point.

Modifié par ToastPants, 02 mars 2012 - 04:51 .