25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

Criz-Zone wrote...
snip

This was in the SWTOR forums, they aren't quite as advanced as we are here

[Collider]

I hope disagreeing with how a romance is done isn't being conflated with dismissing the romance altogether.

[Knightly_BW]

Criz-Zone wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

Zandilar wrote...

Also, Bioware (in general) is not smelling of roses lately on the s/s romance front. Take a look over at the SWTOR forums to see what I mean (specifically the thread in the Story and Lore forum about SGRA (Same Gender Romance Arc) clarifications). Some heat on this is definitely deserved.

There doesn't seem to be a way to only see dev replies in that thread, do you have a summary of what happened in both of the threads?

(If the complaint is that it's taken too long to get the SGRAs up, well - I'd say more SWTOR content in general has taken a long while to arrive, and SGRAs likely aren't even a priority)

actually if there's the "BioWare" logo under the thread title in the main area, clicking on that logo will only give you the BioWare peeps posts

Either there ain't any logo like BSN or it doesn't show until you sign up for forums. (Second post on mentioned forum made by Bioware person so I am assuming there ain't any logo).

I'd like to see a summary too if it is possible.

[Carfax]

Halarid wrote...

This is misinformation. A lot of people are still reluctant to say they're gay or bisexuals in surveys.. because they're not out (yet) and are afraid someone will find out.
Bisexuals are even less likely to say they're bisexuals because they can simply pretend they're straight (after all, they are attracted to the opposite sex).

The 4% figure is often highly repetitive, even across nations, which is why it's frequently used as a reliable figure.  Of course no one truly knows how many gays and bisexuals there are, but it sure as hell isn't 10% and above.

For example, a survey says that 19,3% of the male population in Rio de Janeiro is gay or bisexual. That's a city of  12 millions inhabitants in the metro area.
Incidentally, gay pride parades in Brazil are the largest in the world.

http://en.wikipedia....eople_in_Brazil

That figure is probably correct.  In the U.S, I've seen statistics of certain cities like San Francisco, which almost mirrors Rio de Janeiro's gay population with a 15% estimate.

However, there is a logical reason for such a high percentage.  Gays and other alternate lifestyle people tend to flock to cities (the bigger and more dense the population the better), because people who live in the cities are less likely to frown upon them.  So large cities always have an inflated percentage compared to other areas.

So if you do a survey to estimate how many LGBT people there are and you only target cities, then your result will be inflated.  Thats why random sampling is so important when it comes to getting accurate data.

[Daashi]

Asperius wrote...

What really bothers me is, if people think she can't be bisexual because they assume she is Christian. It amaze me how they are contend with her being a racist.

So racist christians okay, LGBT are not? Hello people of earth, you born as gay but you learn/want to be a racist.

This is worse than lesbians are hot, gays are icky situation.

Actually Ashley wasn't racist, she is a speciest. Which is why I happly sent her to her death on Virmire, I have dealt with enough bigotry in RL, I so don't need it in my games.

[Knightly_BW]

Daashi wrote...

Asperius wrote...

What really bothers me is, if people think she can't be bisexual because they assume she is Christian. It amaze me how they are contend with her being a racist.

So racist christians okay, LGBT are not? Hello people of earth, you born as gay but you learn/want to be a racist.

This is worse than lesbians are hot, gays are icky situation.

Actually Ashley wasn't racist, she is a speciest. Which is why I happly sent her to her death on Virmire, I have dealt with enough bigotry in RL, I so don't need it in my games.

If you look at bigger picture yes. However as we don't know any alien races yet she represents a racist person if you ask me.

[Drone223]

Daashi wrote...

Asperius wrote...

What really bothers me is, if people think she can't be bisexual because they assume she is Christian. It amaze me how they are contend with her being a racist.

So racist christians okay, LGBT are not? Hello people of earth, you born as gay but you learn/want to be a racist.

This is worse than lesbians are hot, gays are icky situation.

Actually Ashley wasn't racist, she is a speciest. Which is why I happly sent her to her death on Virmire, I have dealt with enough bigotry in RL, I so don't need it in my games.

She's dosen't hate aliens, Ashley hates Terra Firma (This happens when Ashley meets the TF party) and Cerberus both are human first and anti-alien groups, she  feels bad about Tali's people and hopes the galaxy change's their mind about them even though they created the Geth, she also happy to work with Salerian STG  she dosen't even wait to be told so by Shepard

Modifié par Drone223, 02 mars 2012 - 10:11 .

[78stonewobble]

Oh that reminds me -.- I got suckered into listening to a bisexual speaker at the local gay club next week. *sigh*

While the informational part is a good idea I just have a feeling I'm gonna need ALOT of coffee to stay non comatose...

[Daashi]

Asperius wrote...

If you look at bigger picture yes. However as we don't know any alien races yet she represents a racist person if you ask me.

Her comments surrounding the antidote with the bear and the dog indicate that she is has a bias against any creature that is not human (whether or not they are from Earth is irrelevent).

[78stonewobble]

Thinking back I think Ashley was more "prohuman" than she was devalueing the other races.

At the time humans didn't have as much power, "rights" and so forth on the big scene as Ashley presumably thought we deserved.

EDIT: But what do I know. I didn't write the char.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 02 mars 2012 - 09:57 .

[devSin]

Zandilar wrote...

Also, Bioware (in general) is not smelling of roses lately on the s/s romance front. Take a look over at the SWTOR forums to see what I mean (specifically the thread in the Story and Lore forum about SGRA (Same Gender Romance Arc) clarifications). Some heat on this is definitely deserved.

I don't think it's fair to judge Edmonton by what they do in Texas with LucasArts breathing down their necks.

Judge Edmonton by Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age. And so far, they've been quite progressive in two out of those three, and they seem like they've really come around now for the third.

[Maugrim]

Ashley bashing and calls for lighter skinned LI's in the same thread *slow clap*

[Kanmuru]

I dont know what so bad about not having Ash as a romance option, w/w players still have/had Liara, Samantha, Kelly and Diana, m/m players only have Kaidan and Cortez (even tho im pretty happy with just Cortez lol)

[Daashi]

78stonewobble wrote...

EDIT: But what do I know. I didn't write the char.

You have a very vaild point you didn't write the character, I sure as hell didn't write the character; it is our own perceptions that coloured how we percieved said character.

But I still maintain what I said in previous posts, the only ME1 playthrough I wasn't really happy with was the one where Ashley lived.

Modifié par Daashi, 02 mars 2012 - 10:07 .

[devSin]

Personally, I was a bit bothered that both Anderson and the useless committee lady kept "Oh, my God"-ing. Why did Ashley even ask if I was down with belief? It seems everybody else is on board the same train.

The only reason I wasn't frowning too much at the writers is because Kaidan did it too in ME (but I never take him along for it, because the reaction is so ridiculous), so maybe it's more common than I remember. But it still sounds awkward.

makenzieshepard wrote...

Ashley bashing and calls for lighter skinned LI's in the same thread *slow clap*

Maybe it was actually a bit of wit bashing Ashley.

He wasn't really asking for lighter skin; he was mimicing Ashley the racist.

You have to be a master to pull off posts like that. ;-)

[Kanmuru]

Daashi wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

EDIT: But what do I know. I didn't write the char.

You have a very vaild point you didn't write the character, I sure as hell didn't write the character; it is our own perceptions that coloured how we percieved said character.

But I still maintain what I said in previous posts, the only ME1 playthrough I wasn't really happy with was the one where Ashley lived.

Maybe youre just being prejudiced against her, and instead of trying to understand where her beliefs come from you decided to just label her a "racist/speciest" despite that fact that even the devs said she isnt one (dont forget she hates cerberus AND terra firma)

[Wittand25]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Zandilar wrote...

Also, Bioware (in general) is not smelling of roses lately on the s/s romance front. Take a look over at the SWTOR forums to see what I mean (specifically the thread in the Story and Lore forum about SGRA (Same Gender Romance Arc) clarifications). Some heat on this is definitely deserved.

There doesn't seem to be a way to only see dev replies in that thread, do you have a summary of what happened in both of the threads?

(If the complaint is that it's taken too long to get the SGRAs up, well - I'd say more SWTOR content in general has taken a long while to arrive, and SGRAs likely aren't even a priority)

Nothing really happened. That is the point though.
For those not following SW:ToR. In september it was announced that SGRAs will be coming as post launch feature. Since then there is been no update on when/how those romances will be implemented and many posters are feeling ignored because of that. Of course you have the usual negative ancys that were also a part of the threads here, but other than that nothing remarkable has happened (especially if one considers how stingy BioWare usually is with talking about game features)

[78stonewobble]

On the other hand we all devalue other people in some way. It's just more politically correct to hate / devalue racists than for the racists to devalue xyz group of people they don't like.

[NeoGuardian86]

Kanmuru wrote...

Daashi wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

EDIT: But what do I know. I didn't write the char.

You have a very vaild point you didn't write the character, I sure as hell didn't write the character; it is our own perceptions that coloured how we percieved said character.

But I still maintain what I said in previous posts, the only ME1 playthrough I wasn't really happy with was the one where Ashley lived.

Maybe youre just being prejudiced against her, and instead of trying to understand where her beliefs come from you decided to just label her a "racist/speciest" despite that fact that even the devs said she isnt one (dont forget she hates cerberus AND terra firma)

From what i remember her distrust of aliens stems from 1. The Normandy in ME1 is an Alliance vessel, and 2. There is history of mistrust between humans and aliens. especially humans and turians. given how the first encounter went down. 


That doesn't really quite make a racist and she certainly is in a position to change her feelings towards aliens as well.


She's not simply a noble human soldier who is lovey dovey with the aliens, nor is she a hateful bigoted racist/specist either. But given her background as a character, it's what makes her unique.

people are various shades of gray, it is extremely unlikely to find a pure black or pure white character.

[Kanmuru]

Wittand25 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

Zandilar wrote...

Also, Bioware (in general) is not smelling of roses lately on the s/s romance front. Take a look over at the SWTOR forums to see what I mean (specifically the thread in the Story and Lore forum about SGRA (Same Gender Romance Arc) clarifications). Some heat on this is definitely deserved.

There doesn't seem to be a way to only see dev replies in that thread, do you have a summary of what happened in both of the threads?

(If the complaint is that it's taken too long to get the SGRAs up, well - I'd say more SWTOR content in general has taken a long while to arrive, and SGRAs likely aren't even a priority)

Nothing really happened. That is the point though.
For those not following SW:ToR. In september it was announced that SGRAs will be coming as post launch feature. Since then there is been no update on when/how those romances will be implemented and many posters are feeling ignored because of that. Of course you have the usual negative ancys that were also a part of the threads here, but other than that nothing remarkable has happened (especially if one considers how stingy BioWare usually is with talking about game features)

There was a leak about future updates last month, they said in 1.5 there would be new companions for all classes

[KillTheLastRomantic]

NeoGuardian86 wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

Daashi wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

EDIT: But what do I know. I didn't write the char.

You have a very vaild point you didn't write the character, I sure as hell didn't write the character; it is our own perceptions that coloured how we percieved said character.

But I still maintain what I said in previous posts, the only ME1 playthrough I wasn't really happy with was the one where Ashley lived.

Maybe youre just being prejudiced against her, and instead of trying to understand where her beliefs come from you decided to just label her a "racist/speciest" despite that fact that even the devs said she isnt one (dont forget she hates cerberus AND terra firma)

From what i remember her distrust of aliens stems from 1. The Normandy in ME1 is an Alliance vessel, and 2. There is history of mistrust between humans and aliens. especially humans and turians. given how the first encounter went down. 


That doesn't really quite make a racist and she certainly is in a position to change her feelings towards aliens as well.


She's not simply a noble human soldier who is lovey dovey with the aliens, nor is she a hateful bigoted racist/specist either. But given her background as a character, it's what makes her unique.

people are various shades of gray, it is extremely unlikely to find a pure black or pure white character.

Exactly. Ashley seemed like she was being pragmatic. While I don't really agree with her, she never comes across as malicious or hateful and is perfectly willing to discuss these things like a reasonable person. It's a bit extreme to call her racist/speciesist.

[78stonewobble]

Ashley still didn't strike me as bi tho ...

but that's an IMHO...

[RomanDark]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Ashley bashing and calls for lighter skinned LI's in the same thread *slow clap*

Hey now, my comment on his skin tone had nothing to do with the fact that he's black if that's what you're implying. As I said its mostly to do with the fact that on the Normandy when there is plenty of light, I couldn't make out any of his features. I'm hoping it's just weird lighting on whoevers game it was or some effect from the video recording/hosting that made it look so weird. Which I kind of find interesting cause in the demo he is in dark lighting and he looks almost white. Strange sort of flip-flop.

[ElitePinecone]

devSin wrote...

Personally, I was a bit bothered that both Anderson and the useless committee lady kept "Oh, my God"-ing. Why did Ashley even ask if I was down with belief? It seems everybody else is on board the same train.

The only reason I wasn't frowning too much at the writers is because Kaidan did it too in ME (but I never take him along for it, because the reaction is so ridiculous), so maybe it's more common than I remember. But it still sounds awkward.

The "Oh my God"ing happens a lot more during ME3, for whatever that's worth. 

From everything I've read about the development of the universe, Walters, Karpyshyn and some of the other writers (Chris L'Etoile in particular) had a lot of debates about where they wanted this future society to go. A lot of it hasn't been used (or they completely contradict it for gameplay reasons, like not bothering to have genuinely multiethnic characters) but I'd like to imagine that somewhere in Edmonton is a design document with the initial planning intact. If they ever gave up making games for the franchise, I'd love to see what the writers envisioned in that first document.

But L'Etoile *did* write Ashley in ME, and the brief opportunity we get to decide Shepard's attitude to religion does give a valuable insight to the attitudes of the Alliance to religious belief. Basically: the regulations say nobody can be told what to believe, or what not to believe. Religious pluralism, yadda yadda. The Systems Alliance is a thoroughly modern society. 

That being said, I don't remember *anybody* apart from Ashley referencing much about (human) religions, we did get a lot of "by the Goddess"-ing from asari, and some references to turian or quarian beliefs, but certainly not the kind of stuff we're getting in ME3.

In part, I think it's because the game has become much more martial, and features more "big moments" that require a reaction from characters. Unfortunately (from my perspective) one of the only things they bother to put in these moments is some variation of "Goddamn!" or "Oh my God". It's adopting the language of contemporary (quasi-North American) society, in terms all sorts of media, including action movies, and putting it in the mouths of characters from 2186. 

As in: I think the writers are making these characters *too* contemporary in that respect, and (perhaps unconsciously) resorting to action-movie cliches of writing in character responses. I started noticing it in some of the dialogue for the comics, and it seems to have continued in ME3. 

To the point that it looks really weird and anachronistic. 

[devSin]

RomanDark wrote...

Hey now, my comment on his skin tone had nothing to do with the fact that he's black if that's what you're implying. As I said its mostly to do with the fact that on the Normandy when there is plenty of light, I couldn't make out any of his features. I'm hoping it's just weird lighting on whoevers game it was or some effect from the video recording/hosting that made it look so weird.

I won't ever see the videos you're talking about, but the dynamic shadowing can fart out sometimes (or is just turned off), and in some cases it makes faces look almost black (not black as in skin color but black as in totally shadowed).

There were some posts about people thinking the release version was going to be different because the promo shots had better lighting, but it looked to actually be dynamic shadows wonking out in the demo comparison shots they used.

Modifié par devSin, 02 mars 2012 - 10:36 .