25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

IsaacShep wrote...

ArawnNox wrote...

Why would it be a bad idea? I mean, heck, Shiala makes a pass at Shep in ME2 (if she's alive).

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea with Shiala, because there's already Liara, but not with male s/s LI. At this point, gay guys will never have a real trilogy-spanning romance comparable to the romances straight/lesbian players can have with all the main full-squaddie LIs from the previous games. Which is why there should be a romance with an old male perma-squaddie as it would be the closest substitute for a full trilogy spanning romance that is possible with other LIs.

You don't think a romance with Joker would have enough emotional weight? I think it would. I don't think the squaddies are the only option for a good romance story. I know you like Kaidan, and so do I, but I think a Joker romance could be done very well and have the "trilogy spanning" feel you mention.

[ArawnNox]

IsaacShep wrote...

ArawnNox wrote...

Why would it be a bad idea? I mean, heck, Shiala makes a pass at Shep in ME2 (if she's alive).

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea with Shiala, because there's already Liara, but not with male s/s LI. At this point, gay guys will never have a real trilogy-spanning romance comparable to the romances straight/lesbian players can have with all the main full-squaddie LIs from the previous games. Which is why there should be a romance with an old male perma-squaddie as it would be the closest substitute for a full trilogy spanning romance that is possible with other LIs.

Fair enough. I continue to forget these things. >.>

[ArawnNox]

Siansonea II wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

ArawnNox wrote...

Why would it be a bad idea? I mean, heck, Shiala makes a pass at Shep in ME2 (if she's alive).

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea with Shiala, because there's already Liara, but not with male s/s LI. At this point, gay guys will never have a real trilogy-spanning romance comparable to the romances straight/lesbian players can have with all the main full-squaddie LIs from the previous games. Which is why there should be a romance with an old male perma-squaddie as it would be the closest substitute for a full trilogy spanning romance that is possible with other LIs.

You don't think a romance with Joker would have enough emotional weight? I think it would. I don't think the squaddies are the only option for a good romance story. I know you like Kaidan, and so do I, but I think a Joker romance could be done very well and have the "trilogy spanning" feel you mention.

Anderson for s/s LI!

I kid, I kid.

[shepskisaac]

Siansonea II wrote...
You don't think a romance with Joker would have enough emotional weight? I think it would. I don't think the squaddies are the only option for a good romance story. I know you like Kaidan, and so do I, but I think a Joker romance could be done very well and have the "trilogy spanning" feel you mention.

I absolutely think it could have good emotional weight. But it wouldn't be anywhere as close to the full romance experience as the Kaidan s/s romance could provide. The way the franchise's constructed and established in its structure and mechanics makes you spend the most time with your LIs as they're full-time squadmates. Its part of the appeal and what makes the main romances all that more significant than with secondary/minor characters. Joker would be great as additional romance option (just as Chakwas), but if he was the only old one, it would deprive the gay players of an option to have as full trilogy romance as it's possible (at this point of course). All the other players having an option to have a big trilogy romance with a perma-squaddie and gay guys being the only ones not to have it, not even the closest substitute possible? I wouldn't like it. I'm all for Jokermance. But not as a sole "old-character available for s/s LI" option.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 23 juin 2011 - 06:02 .

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...
You don't think a romance with Joker would have enough emotional weight? I think it would. I don't think the squaddies are the only option for a good romance story. I know you like Kaidan, and so do I, but I think a Joker romance could be done very well and have the "trilogy spanning" feel you mention.

 

Agreed. 

It would be the epic trilogy spanning romance for me. Plus the rescue romance goes both ways (and I really wanna strangle Joker for getting Shep killed). Develops from professional, to friendship to romantic slowly and yeah...*squees*

I am very bias however.  

Kaidan as a romance to me feels odd because he never leaves professionalism stage. Ever. He calls Shepard, Shepard once and I'm inclined to think that was an oversight (on the Normandy when it's blowing up) due to the probablility of Ash/Liara replacing him in that scene. Replaying ME1 and then getting the "losing you was like losing a limb! " is just a giant..."dude what?" moment. I never feel like he and Shepard are even friends let alone romance material. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 juin 2011 - 06:09 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

I am also hoping for the epic, 3-game romance for my manshep, but I'm not going to get my hopes up at this point. I'm just glad that someone finally pinged on his poor, inactive gaydar (or bi-male-dar if you wanna get technical).

It sounds kinda sad but it's how I feel about it right now.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Montezuma IV wrote...

It's lonely out there in space......

In fact, it's cold as hell.

[xassantex]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

It's lonely out there in space......

In fact, it's cold as hell.

 Shep will enjoy a gay romance when hell freezes over ? *panic attack * .

Modifié par xassantex, 23 juin 2011 - 06:58 .

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...
Kaidan as a romance to me feels odd because he never leaves professionalism stage. Ever. He calls Shepard, Shepard once and I'm inclined to think that was an oversight (on the Normandy when it's blowing up) due to the probablility of Ash/Liara replacing him in that scene. Replaying ME1 and then getting the "losing you was like losing a limb! " is just a giant..."dude what?" moment. I never feel like he and Shepard are even friends let alone romance material.

Seems like you didn't pay enough attention to ManShep playthrough, especially the parts when Shep says "Kaidan, there's no regulation that says you can't be friends with your Commander", or how Kaidan says "That's a generous attitude!" in reply to "Alenko, when it's just you and me, consider it off the record" (BTW notice the tone Shep says it hmmm...) or how he apologizes "getting too informal as the protocol wasn't a big focus in BAaT". And then of course is Horizon and screaming at Shep for not calling him Kaidan is professional character in general. Turning him down as a FemShep is extremly easy, he asks mutliple times if he isn't out of line ("Just say a word (if I am)") and when you actually do turn him down (which you can do on multiple occasions) he apologies right away and swears it won't happen again. Plus it's not always about what the characters say, but what Shepard says too. If you say to him that when it's always off the record when its' between ManShep and him and that there's no regulation that says he can't be friends with ManShep, Horizon is not any surprise since you gave him green light to get informal anyway. Finally, it's established (in both ManShep and FemShep playthroughs) that he doesn't snap and/or acts unprofessionaly easily, only if he cares alot for someone

RinjiRenee wrote...
In fact, it's cold as hell.

I'll warm up you up Renee

Modifié par IsaacShep, 23 juin 2011 - 07:03 .

[AngelicMachinery]

xassantex wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

It's lonely out there in space......

In fact, it's cold as hell.

 Shep will enjoy a gay romance when hell freezes over ? *panic attack * .

FYI,  there are certain planes of hell in Christian Dogma that are in fact well frozen over.

[Siansonea]

IsaacShep wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
You don't think a romance with Joker would have enough emotional weight? I think it would. I don't think the squaddies are the only option for a good romance story. I know you like Kaidan, and so do I, but I think a Joker romance could be done very well and have the "trilogy spanning" feel you mention.

I absolutely think it could have good emotional weight. But it wouldn't be anywhere as close to the full romance experience as the Kaidan s/s romance could provide. The way the franchise's constructed and established in its structure and mechanics makes you spend the most time with your LIs as they're full-time squadmates. Its part of the appeal and what makes the main romances all that more significant than with secondary/minor characters. Joker would be great as additional romance option (just as Chakwas), but if he was the only old one, it would deprive the gay players of an option to have as full trilogy romance as it's possible (at this point of course). All the other players having an option to have a big trilogy romance with a perma-squaddie and gay guys being the only ones not to have it, not even the closest substitute possible? I wouldn't like it. I'm all for Jokermance. But not as a sole "old-character available for s/s LI" option.

Well, to be fair the only people who are currently getting "full-trilogy" romances are people who have romanced one of the ME1 LIs. I know there are a lot of people out there whose LI of choice is among the new options for ME2, so those people aren't getting a full-trilogy romance either, even people who romanced Garrus and Tali. In any case, I don't necessarily think that the full-trilogy aspect should be the overriding concern, for a lot of people that's a rather abstract consideration and quite a few people never played ME1. I know that you personally want Kaidan and only Kaidan as the s/s LI, and that's fine, but if BioWare goes in a different direction I hope you're still happy that m/m options are available. Like I've said before, I like Kaidan as a s/s LI too, I think the character arc could be good, but we have to remember that there are other options on the table and our first choices might not make it into the final game.

Furthermore, I don't necessarily think that Kaidan and Ashley are at this point "trilogy spanning" since they only make a cameo in ME2, and a rather unsatisfying one at that. They certainly aren't full squad mates in ME2. Heck, you even play AS Joker for a brief time in ME2, I certainly think he should be on par with the ME1 squad mates at this point. If the ME3 s/s option does turn out to be Joker, I do hope that he's got more to do than sit in the cockpit and trade one-liners with EDI, I hope they give him a "loyalty mission" or what have you.

I personally will be happy if the m/m and f/f options in ME3 are a) human and attractive. New characters, Kaidan/Miranda, or old friends, it's all good as far as I'm concerned.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 23 juin 2011 - 07:15 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

IsaacShep wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
In fact, it's cold as hell.

I'll warm up you up Renee

Is it getting hot in here...?

[Ryzaki]

IsaacShep wrote...
Seems like you didn't pay enough attention to ManShep playthrough, especially the parts when Shep says "Kaidan, there's no regulation that says you can't be friends with your Commander", or how Kaidan says "That's a generous attitude!" in reply to "Alenko, when it's just you and me, consider it off the record" (BTW notice the tone Shep says it hmmm...) or how he apologizes "getting too informal as the protocol wasn't a big focus in BAaT". And then of course is Horizon and screaming at Shep for not calling him  Kaidan is professional character in general. Turning him down as a FemShep is extremly easy, he asks mutliple times if he isn't out of line ("Just say a word (if I am)") and when you actually do turn him down (which you can do on multiple occasions) he apologies right away and swears it won't happen again. Plus it's not always about what the characters say, but what Shepard says too. If you say to him that when it's always off the record when its' between ManShep and him and that there's no regulation that says he can't be friends with ManShep, Horizon is not any surprise since you gave him green light to get informal anyway. Finally, it's established (in both ManShep and FemShep playthroughs) that he doesn't snap and/or acts unprofessionaly easily, only if he cares alot for someone  

I paid plenty of attention. I got Shepard continously trying to make friends just to get the same professional party line until Shepard throws his hands up.  Him apologizing was him scrambling back into his professional box which just results in a sigh. He creeps out of professionalism for a split second before scrambling back towards it. 

He actually has more dialogue with FemShep (unromanced) than male Shepard. So again another block to me. 

Sure there's no regulations against them being friends. I'm just not seeing any friendship. It's a YMMV situation though but they're not on the level of friendship for "losing you was like losing a limb." My Shep's reaction to that was pretty much "...dude I do not know you that well." 

And Horizon plays out that way regardless of if you even talked to Kaidan or Shep's gender making it to me a giant "one size fits all regardless if it makes sense or not". 

And what my Shepard says doesn't point towards friendship (minus the odd "I miss him." to Kelly.) as much as it points towards trying to make a friendship relationship. 

I really don't hope Kaidan doesn't act like he was my Shep's buddy. Because that is not how it was. My Shepard kept trying to be friends but it wasn't happening. And Horizon was just a mess of characterization. Shepard doesn't give Kaidan the green light to be informal in all playthroughs and that really should be acknowledged. And I just finished playing ME1. ...wearing slash goggles that made me a MaleShepardxGarrus fan. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 juin 2011 - 07:26 .

[Siansonea]

Ryzaki wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Seems like you didn't pay enough attention to ManShep playthrough, especially the parts when Shep says "Kaidan, there's no regulation that says you can't be friends with your Commander", or how Kaidan says "That's a generous attitude!" in reply to "Alenko, when it's just you and me, consider it off the record" (BTW notice the tone Shep says it hmmm...) or how he apologizes "getting too informal as the protocol wasn't a big focus in BAaT". And then of course is Horizon and screaming at Shep for not calling him  Kaidan is professional character in general. Turning him down as a FemShep is extremly easy, he asks mutliple times if he isn't out of line ("Just say a word (if I am)") and when you actually do turn him down (which you can do on multiple occasions) he apologies right away and swears it won't happen again. Plus it's not always about what the characters say, but what Shepard says too. If you say to him that when it's always off the record when its' between ManShep and him and that there's no regulation that says he can't be friends with ManShep, Horizon is not any surprise since you gave him green light to get informal anyway. Finally, it's established (in both ManShep and FemShep playthroughs) that he doesn't snap and/or acts unprofessionaly easily, only if he cares alot for someone  

I paid plenty of attention. I got Shepard continously trying to make friends just to get the same professional party line until Shepard throws his hands up.  Him apologizing was him scrambling back into his professional box which just results in a sigh. He creeps out of professionalism for a split second before scrambling back towards it. 

He actually has more dialogue with FemShep (unromanced) than male Shepard. So again another block to me. 

Sure there's no regulations against them being friends. I'm just not seeing any friendship. It's a YMMV situation though but they're not on the level of friendship for "losing you was like losing a limb." My Shep's reaction to that was pretty much "...dude I do not know you that well." 

And Horizon plays out that way regardless of if you even talked to Kaidan or Shep's gender making it to me a giant "one size fits all regardless if it makes sense or not". 

And what my Shepard says doesn't point towards friendship (minus the odd "I miss him." to Kelly.) as much as it points towards trying to make a friendship relationship. 

I really don't hope Kaidan doesn't act like he was my Shep's buddy. Because that is not how it was. My Shepard kept trying to be friends but it wasn't happening. And Horizon was just a mess of characterization. Shepard doesn't give Kaidan the green light to be informal in all playthroughs and that really should be acknowledged. And I just finished playing ME1. ...wearing slash goggles that made me a MaleShepardxGarrus fan. 

This phenomenon is a problem with all characters, not just Kaidan. You can ignore Kaidan, Ashley, Liara, Wrex, Tali AND Garrus, and in ME2 they act like Shepard meant the world to them. "Shepard! My friend!" Wrex says on Tuchanka. Even though I didn't even recruit him until after Virmire in one of my saves, he still acts like he was there. That's just bad programming. I hope that ME3 irons out all those kinks.

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...
This phenomenon is a problem with all characters, not just Kaidan. You can ignore Kaidan, Ashley, Liara, Wrex, Tali AND Garrus, and in ME2 they act like Shepard meant the world to them. "Shepard! My friend!" Wrex says on Tuchanka. Even though I didn't even recruit him until after Virmire in one of my saves, he still acts like he was there. That's just bad programming. I hope that ME3 irons out all those kinks.

That is true. 

Wrex is excused because of Virmire though. Liara's...obsessive. Tali and Garrus though...maybe it's because they have the same amount of interaction with male/female Shepard that I give them a pass. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 juin 2011 - 07:41 .

[Siansonea]

Ryzaki wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
This phenomenon is a problem with all characters, not just Kaidan. You can ignore Kaidan, Ashley, Liara, Wrex, Tali AND Garrus, and in ME2 they act like Shepard meant the world to them. "Shepard! My friend!" Wrex says on Tuchanka. Even though I didn't even recruit him until after Virmire in one of my saves, he still acts like he was there. That's just bad programming. I hope that ME3 irons out all those kinks.

That is true. 

Wrex is excused because of Virmire though. Liara's...obsessive. Tali and Garrus though...maybe it's because they have the same amount of interaction with male/female Shepard that I give them a pass. 

I tend to give Kaidan a little more leeway because he was already on the Normandy with Shepard before the game starts, him and Joker both. So I assume there was at least some pre-game association among the crew, a bit of a getting-to-know-you phase, and only after the first post-Citadel mission does Shepard have the option of getting to know him a bit more. And because Ashley and Kaidan are both Alliance and human, I accept their esteem toward Shepard as not completely disproportionate. Even if they didn't really connect with Shepard on a personal level, they most certainly did on a professional level. Heck, they MUTINIED at Shepard's request. So I don't mind if they're not completely blasé toward Shepard on Horizon. I'm sure that having a mutiny on their record is a big deal for both of them, and not something they did lightly.

[1136342t54_]

ArawnNox wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

I'm not saying cultural taboos of Quarians or Turians don't permit S/S relationships but I wouldn't really entirely rule it out. We still don't know a lot about alien culture.

On pure conjecture, I susupect the level of taboo for Quarians depends entirely on how the population is doing. If numbers are in decline, then it could be very poorly regarded. If it's nearing overflow, then it is probably less of an issue.
That taboo probably applies to Quarian/Non-Quarian pairings just as much as same-sex pairings. So, in essence, there should be just as much of a taboo for Tali getting with MaleShep as FemShep, which onluy points out how gender, for that romance, shouldn't matter, from a social point of view.
Though, another factor can also be whether or not Tali has been kicked out of the Migrant Fleet. She could very well not care what her people think if she's still a part of it, and visa versa.
I'm rambling. I need sleep.

That may be true but if Tali or Garrus turns out to be bi in the next game then there would need to be some explanation for why they didn't hit on a s/s shep in ME2. The Cultural taboo may work simply because some aliens may not be that comfortable with s/s relationship. So basically if Garrus hit on a s/s male shep then he would be dealing with two taboos not one same goes for Tali. It could explain it but I'm sure Bioware can come up with some other reason.

[Siansonea]

1136342t54 wrote...

ArawnNox wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

I'm not saying cultural taboos of Quarians or Turians don't permit S/S relationships but I wouldn't really entirely rule it out. We still don't know a lot about alien culture.

On pure conjecture, I susupect the level of taboo for Quarians depends entirely on how the population is doing. If numbers are in decline, then it could be very poorly regarded. If it's nearing overflow, then it is probably less of an issue.
That taboo probably applies to Quarian/Non-Quarian pairings just as much as same-sex pairings. So, in essence, there should be just as much of a taboo for Tali getting with MaleShep as FemShep, which onluy points out how gender, for that romance, shouldn't matter, from a social point of view.
Though, another factor can also be whether or not Tali has been kicked out of the Migrant Fleet. She could very well not care what her people think if she's still a part of it, and visa versa.
I'm rambling. I need sleep.

That may be true but if Tali or Garrus turns out to be bi in the next game then there would need to be some explanation for why they didn't hit on a s/s shep in ME2. The Cultural taboo may work simply because some aliens may not be that comfortable with s/s relationship. So basically if Garrus hit on a s/s male shep then he would be dealing with two taboos not one same goes for Tali. It could explain it but I'm sure Bioware can come up with some other reason.

I think it's less of an issue for Garrus. He doesn't even think twice about FemShep until she starts in on him with her minx routine after his "reach and flexibility" schpiel. And since ManShep doesn't go there, it could simply be the same for ManShep as it was for FemShep, i.e. "I don't have a fetish for humans or anything, but sure, why not?"

[shepskisaac]

Siansonea II wrote...
Well, to be fair the only people who are currently getting "full-trilogy" romances are people who have romanced one of the ME1 LIs. I know there are a lot of people out there whose LI of choice is among the new options for ME2, so those people aren't getting a full-trilogy romance either, even people who romanced Garrus and Tali.

But they have the possibility/option. There are straight romance options with characters that were full-squaddies in at least 2 games (Liara, Kaidan, Ashley, Garrus, Tali). There's also the option to have a lesbian romance with a character that was a full-squaddie in at least 2 games (Liara). That's my point. Giving gay guys at least 1 option, a chance at all to have a romance with a character that was a full-squaddie in at least 2 games, majority of the trilogy.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 23 juin 2011 - 07:57 .

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...
I tend to give Kaidan a little more leeway because he was already on the Normandy with Shepard before the game starts, him and Joker both. So I assume there was at least some pre-game association among the crew, a bit of a getting-to-know-you phase, and only after the first post-Citadel mission does Shepard have the option of getting to know him a bit more. And because Ashley and Kaidan are both Alliance and human, I accept their esteem toward Shepard as not completely disproportionate. Even if they didn't really connect with Shepard on a personal level, they most certainly did on a professional level. Heck, they MUTINIED at Shepard's request. So I don't mind if they're not completely blasé toward Shepard on Horizon. I'm sure that having a mutiny on their record is a big deal for both of them, and not something they did lightly.

I don't know. Nameless alliance solider in the hall mutined too and my Shep's not friends with them. They just believed in what they were doing. You don't have to like your commander for that. 

The Commader thing just bugs me. It's too cold. Everyone else goes Shepard. There's a familiarity there that's not present with Kaidan. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 juin 2011 - 08:05 .

[Ryzaki]

IsaacShep wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Well, to be fair the only people who are currently getting "full-trilogy" romances are people who have romanced one of the ME1 LIs. I know there are a lot of people out there whose LI of choice is among the new options for ME2, so those people aren't getting a full-trilogy romance either, even people who romanced Garrus and Tali.

But they have the possibility/option. There are straight romance options with characters that were full-squaddies in at least 2 games (Liara, Kaidan, Ashley, Garrus, Tali). There's also the option to have a lesbian romance with a character that was a full-squaddie in at least 2 games (Liara). That's my point. Giving gay guys at least 1 option, a chance at all to have a romance with a character that was a full-squaddie in at least 2 games, majority of the trilogy.

 

So Garrus is just as good as Kaidan then? 

[ArawnNox]

Siansonea II wrote...
This phenomenon is a problem with all characters, not just Kaidan. You can ignore Kaidan, Ashley, Liara, Wrex, Tali AND Garrus, and in ME2 they act like Shepard meant the world to them. "Shepard! My friend!" Wrex says on Tuchanka. Even though I didn't even recruit him until after Virmire in one of my saves, he still acts like he was there. That's just bad programming. I hope that ME3 irons out all those kinks.

I wouldn't call it bad programming as that's just what someone would expect a player to do. Most would figure you'd recruit everyone on your first visit to the citidel, with Liara being the "when to recruit" wild card. Even then, one would assume she'd be recruited before you do Noveria.

[Siansonea]

IsaacShep wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Well, to be fair the only people who are currently getting "full-trilogy" romances are people who have romanced one of the ME1 LIs. I know there are a lot of people out there whose LI of choice is among the new options for ME2, so those people aren't getting a full-trilogy romance either, even people who romanced Garrus and Tali.

But they have the possibility/option. There are straight romance options with characters that were full-squaddies in at least 2 games (Liara, Kaidan, Ashley, Garrus, Tali). There's also the option to have a lesbian romance with a character that was a full-squaddie in at least 2 games (Liara). That's my point. Giving gay guys at least 1 option, a chance at all to have a romance with a character that was a full-squaddie in at least 2 games, majority of the trilogy.

Believe me, I understand your point, but I still think you're devaluing someone like Joker somewhat. He's been there from the very beginning, just like Kaidan, and Shepard can chat him up during TWO games even if he (and she) can't romance him (yet). Joker has been a pivotal character in several scenes in both games, he's got a lot of history with Shepard. He can't run around with Shepard during combat missions, but really, what difference does that make? It's not like in ME1 the squad mates had a huge amount of impact during the missions. They could make a few comments (that were often just generic comments like "Cycle? What cycle?") and use their powers or whatever, but very little in the way of specific character interaction with Shepard. Just my opinion.