25715 réponses à ce sujet

[SolidBeast]

bleetman wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

bleetman wrote...

I like that what began as a commentary on how Kaidan and Ashley are being treated in ME3 would divide the combined VS fanbase has somewhat ended up an argument as to whether one got more attention than the other in past Mass Effect games/plot/marketing/whatever.

Oh yeah. Clearly no division here

Why do they need to be combined? Why shouldn't they be divided? And ultimately, aren't we all individuals here? Why are people pushing for such a thing as "VS fans" when VS are clearly different people, even if one lives when the other dies? Isn't it normal to prefer one over the other (not saying there are no exceptions)?
The whole point shouldn't be in NOT arguing facts, it should be in NOT childishly gloating or demeaning other people for something they 1) have no control over 2) are happy / sad about.

I feel for Ashley's fans BUT that doesn't make this unfair from a trilogy s/s romance standpoint. Which is what I believe BioWare was aiming at.

I think you're arguing with the wrong person. I'm just commenting on what's happened.

You worded your comment in such a way that it appeared to take a jab at how we are trying not to "be divided" but then arguing (becoming divided) and therefore contradicting ourselves.
My point was never that Kaidan and Ashley's fans shouldn't be separate (since they're separate characters, after all), it was merely that they don't need to resort to childish bickering because they are unsatisfied with how things are.
This is more a general comment, not directed specifically at you.

[MSparkyPants]

Filament wrote...

Nevermind, read quote out of context.

I know this is off-topic, but I adore your icon!
+1

[Collider]

OTHER women's gender, yes.

They make direct references to the fact that the player character is a woman.
Thane and Siha is one example. Siha is a protector-hunter goddess (female). I take from the Thane fanbase that they rather like this nickname.

I do agree with you, however, that it is hypcritical to have an established "bi" LI refer to only to past female lovers, like Anders and Leliana do.

For once I'd like a bisexual male love interest who didn't have a dead girlfriend or such.

[ADLegend21]

why can't we all get along....v.v

[Abispa]

Collider wrote...

OTHER women's gender, yes.

They make direct references to the fact that the player character is a woman.
Thane and Siha is one example. Siha is a protector-hunter goddess (female). I take from the Thane fanbase that they rather like this nickname.

I do agree with you, however, that it is hypcritical to have an established "bi" LI refer to only to past female lovers, like Anders and Leliana do.

For once I'd like a bisexual male love interest who didn't have a dead girlfriend or such.

The "bi" lovers in DA2 did have gender specific lines in their romances, I'd dare say as many as the LIs you mentioned did. Merrill told my male Hawke that he should be the lord of the Dalish if he were an elf. She says female Hawke is wonderful and beautiful or some such (I'm sure lesbian Merrill fans can correct me if I'm wrong).

Modifié par Abispa, 04 mars 2012 - 12:49 .

[Abispa]

ADLegend21 wrote...

why can't we all get along....v.v

There is a difference between debate and bickering. If this place was a bunch of hand holding and complements I'd leave.

Modifié par Abispa, 04 mars 2012 - 12:48 .

[Collider]

I'd dare say as many as the LIs you mentioned did.

Having played through both the Anders and Fenris romances, I would say absolutely not.
I think Fenris' only has the line where Hawke asks if it was strange being with another man.

[SolidBeast]

Abispa wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

why can't we all get along....v.v

There is a difference between debate and arguing. If this place was a bunch of hand holding and complements I'd leave.

Agreed.
That we come to disagreements does not mean that we can not like each other.

[.shea.]

Abispa wrote...
The "bi" lovers in DA2 did have gender specific lines in their romances, I'd dare say as many as the LIs you mentioned did. Merrill told my male Hawke that he should be the lord of the Dalish if he were an elf. She says female Hawke is wonder and beautiful or some such (I'm sure lesbian Merrill fans can correct me if I'm wrong).

She mentions how femHawke is like a 'goddess' that some 'worship from afar'. Isabela is even better example, the pre- and post-sex convos are different (unless she invites maleHawke for some 'girly fun') as is the flirting with Tallis in MotA (she gets jealous when femHawke flirts with Tallis, but laughs it up when maleHawke does the same). It's funny, because I've played through the modded Morrigan romance as female Warden and she only mentions gender once (from what I can remember) when she called my warden 'a strange man' or something like that.

[SolidBeast]

Collider wrote...

I'd dare say as many as the LIs you mentioned did.

Having played through both the Anders and Fenris romances, I would say absolutely not.
I think Fenris' only has the line where Hawke asks if it was strange being with another man.

That's not true. Fenris has at least 2 instances that I can recall where he comments something along the lines of "You're a handsome man, Hawke".

[Collider]

I remember specifically Morrigan being astonished at the idea of a man wanting more than just sex.

[Collider]

SolidBeast wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'd dare say as many as the LIs you mentioned did.

Having played through both the Anders and Fenris romances, I would say absolutely not.
I think Fenris' only has the line where Hawke asks if it was strange being with another man.

That's not true. Fenris has at least 2 instances that I can recall where he comments something along the lines of "You're a handsome man, Hawke".

That's trivial, which is why I didn't mention it.

[Abispa]

Collider wrote...

I'd dare say as many as the LIs you mentioned did.

Having played through both the Anders and Fenris romances, I would say absolutely not.
I think Fenris' only has the line where Hawke asks if it was strange being with another man.

I found Anders and Fenris lines fitting their characters in DA2. If they became the model for EVERY s/s male LI from here on out I'd say your fears are justified. Maybe it was prejudice on my part, being a straight male, but the Anders romance DID feel different based on gender.

[SolidBeast]

Collider wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'd dare say as many as the LIs you mentioned did.

Having played through both the Anders and Fenris romances, I would say absolutely not.
I think Fenris' only has the line where Hawke asks if it was strange being with another man.

That's not true. Fenris has at least 2 instances that I can recall where he comments something along the lines of "You're a handsome man, Hawke".

That's trivial, which is why I didn't mention it.

How is "you're a handsome man" trivial and mentioning "another man" isn't?

@Abispa - it felt very fitting to me as well and I didn't get a "well, this is just copy-paste of femHawke's romance" feeling for a second.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 04 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[devSin]

SolidBeast wrote...

How is "you're a handsome man" trivial and mentioning "another man" isn't?

And I don't think Fenris' reaction changes at all (it's only Hawke's "What's wrong?" response that changes).

The others are things he actually says, and responses to your showing an interest.

[draken-heart]

WHERE IS MY SAMANTHA/FEM!SHEPARD ROMANCE SCENE?!

[Collider]

How is "you're a handsome man" trivial and mentioning "another man" isn't?

You could replace "handsome" with "beautiful" very easily. It's as significant as saying "he" instead of "she."

Asking if it's strange being with another man (same sex) is clearly more significant.

[SolidBeast]

Collider wrote...

How is "you're a handsome man" trivial and mentioning "another man" isn't?

You could replace "handsome" with "beautiful" very easily. It's as significant as saying "he" instead of "she."

Asking if it's strange being with another man (same sex) is clearly more significant.

But why would he need to ask such a question or refer to it over and over in a universe where it's not even an issue?
People don't tend to do that IRL, either (from my experience).
I guess I'm asking what the big deal is about that, and how does continually mentioning something like that improve the romance itself?

Modifié par SolidBeast, 04 mars 2012 - 01:03 .

[TMA LIVE]

Collider wrote...

How is "you're a handsome man" trivial and mentioning "another man" isn't?

You could replace "handsome" with "beautiful" very easily. It's as significant as saying "he" instead of "she."

Asking if it's strange being with another man (same sex) is clearly more significant.

Well, I wouldn't call it that significant. Since that line gets replaced by "Strange being with an elf".

It's not like with Merrill, where one version she's talking about wanting to be just like Hawke. And the other she's talking about how they shouldn't get together because there are reasons.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 04 mars 2012 - 01:21 .

[Ricvenart]

Thread needs kittens.

Sorry you didn't get Ash and all but Vega isn't a choice either which some people wanted. I don't see why that should make it Steve or bust. We all have options, not like they played favourites or have been unfair to one group in particular with lack of choice in ME3.

Also isn't one of Anders' final lines "Someday somewhere, maybe a man like you can love a mage like me and there'd be no templars to tear us apart" Which I found pretty significant. Even in the game which there is no sexuality barrier as such but still works well.

Modifié par Ricvenart, 04 mars 2012 - 01:23 .

[SolidBeast]

I agree.

And it's "Ten years, a hundred years from now, someone like me will love someone like you, and there will be no templars to tear them apart."

Modifié par SolidBeast, 04 mars 2012 - 01:27 .

[jlb524]

BrianWilly wrote...
Whether or not Kaidan likes vanilla ice cream has no impact whatsoever on game mechanics or storyline in any way.  We "choose" it only in our heads, unlike a romance path that is shown onscreen and set into those characters' narratives..

But 'character being available for romance by gender X' isn't the same as 'character is such and such a sexuality'.

[TMA LIVE]

I do find it wrong that there is no new romance for the Straight female. I mean, if you're playing ME3 for the first time, then your only option is Kaidan. And my main problem since day one is a lack of choices. I really did not like that KOTOR only allowed me to romance an ice queen. I really wish I had an alternative. You could say "Well, they still have 3 lesbian options in ME3." But that's like me telling a gay man "Well, if you didn't like Zev, you still got Morrigan and Leli". Which ain't a real good answer. So I think they should have gotten another guy for them.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 04 mars 2012 - 01:27 .

[Fooxie]

Okay, I just have to say... I want that kitten.

[Maugrim]

Ricvenart wrote...

Also isn't one of Anders' final lines "Someday somewhere, maybe a man like you can love a mage like me and there'd be no templars to tear us apart" Which I found pretty significant. Even in the game which there is no sexuality barrier as such but still works well.

I wasn't a big personal fan of Anders, though I did think his story was well done, if terribly tragic and sad.  And the only PC of mine that could romance him was my insane Mage Freedom at all costs male blood age, otherwise most of my PC's feel obligated to kill him for his heinous crimes.  But I loved that line, it's one of my favorites in the game.  It's one of the many things we may never know for sure but I definately think that was commentary on a whole host of issues outside the game as well as inside made by the writers.

ETA: Yeah why does straight FemShep get no new options?  You can't accuse me of self interest I have no straight Femsheps!

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 04 mars 2012 - 01:29 .