25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

Weltea wrote...

Village Idiot wrote...

 Did they do the Ken stuff this time?  I thought I heard a rumor that earlier in the development of ME2 they were going to put a female Shepard with Ken (a la Kelly Chambers), but ended up not doing that?  I don't know, maybe I'm making things up and have just lost my mind.  

I remember that rumor but there's some Ken/Gabby flirting dialogue (at least in the old script) so I don't think so....but maybe a new NPC fills that role? And we just haven't heard about him yet?
Does that sound possible or am I just grasping at straws?

There's "Major Coates", who seems to be some kind of marine officer. He's in a bunch of scenes from the trailer and other videos we've seen.

No idea if he's even on the Normandy, though. 

(But I'd think there'd have to be *somebody* for femShep if all her possible ME/ME2 LIs died)

[Abispa]

Collider wrote...

Vega is an option to flirt with as female Shepard.
That's apparently enough for Bioware.

The question to Bioware was from a disappointed Vega fan about him NOT being a "real" LI if I remember correctly. Maybe someone could work their Google magic to find it, mine ain't doing crap finding the damn thing. Is there a trick to this?

[TMA LIVE]

SolidBeast wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Look, I don't think it's intentional. I do think they're reusing Ash's animation out of laziness. But it is making Kaidan more feminine, and thus falling into the stereotype.

One good thing BW does is avoid stereotypes.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't their intention.

Also, are your sure that your bias on this isn't leading you to interpret his animations as 'more feminine' when they might not be all that different?

It could be just the intro levels, and then things are different later on. But from what I've seen so far, animation wise, he does exactly what Ash does.

Think of it like the open legs thing Femshep does.

What's wrong with that, except when she's in a dress (in a scene where she wasn't supposed to wear a dress, anyway)? Isn't that the point? It's just your perception that sitting like that should be restricted to males, just as it's your perception that Kaidan's animations are "feminine".

Are you saying woman in general sit with their legs spread open?

Because whatever you do say, the real reason Femshep does that is because Maleshep does that. And the Femshep version is just an afterthough.

If you consider that ok, that's your choice. But I don't think that's a good thing, unless that's in character. Unless it's interntional. I don't think taking Ash's animation, and making Kaidan do the same is a good thing, nor jells with his character.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 04 mars 2012 - 04:20 .

[ElitePinecone]

Quething wrote...
snip

For what it's worth I agree that playing it as a 'lol trap' joke is... enormously stupid. 

But Mary Kirby did apologise to the thread poster who brought up Serendipity in MoTA, and I think if anything the cack-handed way they've managed trans stuff in their games is an incentive to improve it. 

If the response to almost every trans thing they try is that people get upset and/or angry and/or dsappointed, perhaps some bright spark writer might sit down to actually write a serious character, or at least stop making trans characters the target of jokes.

(Actually, now that I think about it, between Happy Endings and the dwarf from DAO and Serendipity, that's three for three joke characters.)

[Collider]

Yup. It's still acceptable in video games to make fun of transgenderism.
That's why I'm wary.

Also notice the universal connection transgendered characters in Bioawre games have with prostitution.
As if all there is to being trans is sex.

Modifié par Collider, 04 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[SolidBeast]

Abispa wrote...

Collider wrote...

Vega is an option to flirt with as female Shepard.
That's apparently enough for Bioware.

The question to Bioware was from a disappointed Vega fan about him NOT being a "real" LI if I remember correctly. Maybe someone could work their Google magic to find it, mine ain't doing crap finding the damn thing. Is there a trick to this?

Is this what you're talking about? https://twitter.com/...371265398013952

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...
My opposition to the gender roles concept specifically deals with the notion that certain behaviors are inherently masculine or feminine, which often leads to the belief that men and women should act according to those stereotypes.
In this particular context, someone said Kaidan was acting feminine in animations and was mentioning bisexuality alongside it.

Extrapolating from there, doesn't the same apply to distinguishing romances based on the genders involved?  I think at it's core, that sort of mechanism has to fall back on gender stereotypes.  The idea being that a man and a woman interact differently than a woman and a woman.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

SolidBeast wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Collider wrote...

Vega is an option to flirt with as female Shepard.
That's apparently enough for Bioware.

The question to Bioware was from a disappointed Vega fan about him NOT being a "real" LI if I remember correctly. Maybe someone could work their Google magic to find it, mine ain't doing crap finding the damn thing. Is there a trick to this?

Is this what you're talking about? https://twitter.com/...371265398013952

That's vague enough to either be hinting at the possiblity of another male romance or just a veiled reference to a new romance with Kaidan.

[Cat Fancy]

ElitePinecone wrote...


I'm going to tiptoe around realworld sociopolitics here, because it's not the topic of the thread, but I disagree that 2186 shouldn't be seen as some sort of utopia for conemporary social/civil rights causes.

'Cause, I mean, it is. Harkin aside (and he's an abberation according to every single character you meet) nobody treats femShep differently because of her gender, there's literally no racism in the entire game, and battle-hardened marines like Vega don't bat an eyelid at married Steve. We have women serving openly on the frontlines of the Alliance, Earth's cultures and ethnicities are a farrago and the Alliance has regulations protecting religious liberty and (presumably) recognising same-sex marriages. 

174 years is a heck of a long time by the pace of change of social mores, especially when (as we've been told by the writers) confirmation of the existence of aliens simultaneously causes about a zillion religious schisms and gives humans an external focus that's a thousand times more separate than gender, ethnicity, politics or sexual orientation. 

Point being: I've read blogs by Patrick Weekes that suggest Bioware try to make their games relative social utopias (at least where sexuality/gender/race is concerned) partly because they have fans who enjoy playing in a fictional world where their identity is irrelevant. 

If they want to make (apparently) unrealistic liberal paradises as fictional fantasy/sci-fi worlds, I say go for it. The escapism clearly has a huge audience, and they're providing a setting that virtually no other games can match. 

That's the thing- I don't think they're pulling off this utopias they claim they have. Look at the strippers/consorts, and how they're all ladies. Also, again, the asari. The universe's sex objects are all thin, human-looking bisexual women. I don't like how the game handles racism, either (humans mostly seem white, only with dark hair). I find these (what I think are) errors distracting. I know plenty people don't. I understand why people want utopias- I just think they're really hard to pull off and I'd rather writers didn't try. Certainly, down this path lies madness + mods, so we can just agree to disagree.

[ElitePinecone]

SolidBeast wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Collider wrote...

Vega is an option to flirt with as female Shepard.
That's apparently enough for Bioware.

The question to Bioware was from a disappointed Vega fan about him NOT being a "real" LI if I remember correctly. Maybe someone could work their Google magic to find it, mine ain't doing crap finding the damn thing. Is there a trick to this?

Is this what you're talking about? https://twitter.com/...371265398013952

Not for the last time, I'm kinda regretting Weekes blocked me. What does that say? 

(Hasn't he replied to about four separate questions about Vega in the past few weeks?)

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...
My opposition to the gender roles concept specifically deals with the notion that certain behaviors are inherently masculine or feminine, which often leads to the belief that men and women should act according to those stereotypes.
In this particular context, someone said Kaidan was acting feminine in animations and was mentioning bisexuality alongside it.

Extrapolating from there, doesn't the same apply to distinguishing romances based on the genders involved?  I think at it's core, that sort of mechanism has to fall back on gender stereotypes.  The idea being that a man and a woman interact differently than a woman and a woman.

Only if it's forced intentionally as a rule.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

ElitePinecone wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Collider wrote...

Vega is an option to flirt with as female Shepard.
That's apparently enough for Bioware.

The question to Bioware was from a disappointed Vega fan about him NOT being a "real" LI if I remember correctly. Maybe someone could work their Google magic to find it, mine ain't doing crap finding the damn thing. Is there a trick to this?

Is this what you're talking about? https://twitter.com/...371265398013952

Not for the last time, I'm kinda regretting Weekes blocked me. What does that say? 

(Hasn't he replied to about four separate questions about Vega in the past few weeks?)

" I'm a bit worried for my single Femshep, will there be any new guys for her to romance in #ME3? Or will she be forever alone?"


"if you romanced nobody in ME1/2, you will still have options. :)"

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...
My opposition to the gender roles concept specifically deals with the notion that certain behaviors are inherently masculine or feminine, which often leads to the belief that men and women should act according to those stereotypes.
In this particular context, someone said Kaidan was acting feminine in animations and was mentioning bisexuality alongside it.

Extrapolating from there, doesn't the same apply to distinguishing romances based on the genders involved?  I think at it's core, that sort of mechanism has to fall back on gender stereotypes.  The idea being that a man and a woman interact differently than a woman and a woman.

Exactly. They shouldn't be the same in my opinion. Sure some things are the same, or similar, but I don't think you'd interact with a man the same as a woman. Realistically, there would be more different then just calling a character he or she.

[SolidBeast]

TMA LIVE wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Look, I don't think it's intentional. I do think they're reusing Ash's animation out of laziness. But it is making Kaidan more feminine, and thus falling into the stereotype.

One good thing BW does is avoid stereotypes.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't their intention.

Also, are your sure that your bias on this isn't leading you to interpret his animations as 'more feminine' when they might not be all that different?

It could be just the intro levels, and then things are different later on. But from what I've seen so far, animation wise, he does exactly what Ash does.

Think of it like the open legs thing Femshep does.

What's wrong with that, except when she's in a dress (in a scene where she wasn't supposed to wear a dress, anyway)? Isn't that the point? It's just your perception that sitting like that should be restricted to males, just as it's your perception that Kaidan's animations are "feminine".

Are you saying woman in general sit with their legs spread open?

Because whatever you do say, the real reason Femshep does that is because Maleshep does that. And the Femshep version is just an afterthough.

If you consider that ok, that's your choice. But I don't think that's a good thing, unless that's in character. Unless it's interntional. I don't think taking Ash's animation, and making Kaidan do the same is a good thing, nor jells with his character.

Uh, depends, are you saying this is the only way women sit?

Reread my post. You're missing the point.

edit: my damn image isn't showing. Moment.
http://www.flickr.co...N06/2217908543/

Modifié par SolidBeast, 04 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[TMA LIVE]

SolidBeast wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Look, I don't think it's intentional. I do think they're reusing Ash's animation out of laziness. But it is making Kaidan more feminine, and thus falling into the stereotype.

One good thing BW does is avoid stereotypes.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't their intention.

Also, are your sure that your bias on this isn't leading you to interpret his animations as 'more feminine' when they might not be all that different?

It could be just the intro levels, and then things are different later on. But from what I've seen so far, animation wise, he does exactly what Ash does.

Think of it like the open legs thing Femshep does.

What's wrong with that, except when she's in a dress (in a scene where she wasn't supposed to wear a dress, anyway)? Isn't that the point? It's just your perception that sitting like that should be restricted to males, just as it's your perception that Kaidan's animations are "feminine".

Are you saying woman in general sit with their legs spread open?

Because whatever you do say, the real reason Femshep does that is because Maleshep does that. And the Femshep version is just an afterthough.

If you consider that ok, that's your choice. But I don't think that's a good thing, unless that's in character. Unless it's interntional. I don't think taking Ash's animation, and making Kaidan do the same is a good thing, nor jells with his character.

Uh, depends, are you saying this is the only way women sit?

Reread my post. You're missing the point.

edit: my damn image isn't showing. Moment.

And you're missing my point. I said in general. As in majority, and all the time.

[ElitePinecone]

^ Seeing as how people have ravenously torn apart the voice files and found (apparently?) no full romance for Vega, and no flings with other male characters, discovering a new LI for femShep right now seems... extraordinary.

Surely they had to account for save-file imports with no ME2 LI and Kaidan/Garrus/Thane/Jacob dead?

[Frozen83]

umwhatyousay wrote...

Look at the strippers/consorts, and how they're all ladies. Also, again, the asari. The universe's sex objects are all thin, human-looking bisexual women.

Now that you've mentioned it, a half-naked turian dancing for Aria would have been a nice touch . M.

[Collider]

If you're killing off so many M/F characters and importing that save, you're seriously asking for no options.

[Daashi]

Frozen83 wrote...

umwhatyousay wrote...

Look at the strippers/consorts, and how they're all ladies. Also, again, the asari. The universe's sex objects are all thin, human-looking bisexual women.

Now that you've mentioned it, a half-naked turian dancing for Aria would have been a nice touch . M.

Or how about human guys in nothing but hot pants!

[TMA LIVE]

Collider wrote...

If you're killing off so many M/F characters and importing that save, you're seriously asking for no options.

Sure, but there still should be a new one, if Male Shep gets 2 new ones.

But Femshep seems to only get one new one, and it's Sam. Not a boy option.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 04 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[Collider]

Sure, but there still should be a new one, if Male Shep gets 2 new ones.

Agreed, but for the reason that straight female Shepard has already gotten 4 options, I don't find it impossible that she doesn't have any new ones.

[ElitePinecone]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Collider wrote...

If you're killing off so many M/F characters and importing that save, you're seriously asking for no options.

Sure, but there still should be a new one, if Male Shep gets 2 new ones.

Not even that, it'd just be... bizarre if there weren't new LIs. Especially after they even gave femShep a tiny marketing opportunity. 

So... Coates? The XO, if he's still in the game?

Random Citadel NPCs? Kenneth? 

[SolidBeast]

TMA LIVE wrote...

And you're missing my point. I said in general. As in majority, and all the time.

"Women in general" and "men in general" sit in a wide variety of ways. I don't see how sitting in a different manner makes it "male behavior" or why it should be considered that way.

This, of course, comes from your point that Kaidan sharing some animations (example?) makes him act "girly" and therefore more likely to be bisexual. 

Modifié par SolidBeast, 04 mars 2012 - 04:40 .

[Cat Fancy]

Frozen83 wrote...
Now that you've mentioned it, a half-naked turian dancing for Aria would have been a nice touch . M.

**** yes, it would have.

Less than 24 hours if you're in Asia or use a proxy!

By the way, I'm spoiled, but not so spoiled. Could someone tell me/vaguely hint at how long it takes to recruit Kaidan? I'd kind of like to have Shepard romance him first, but I'm super impatient so I'll just have Shep get with Steve if it's gonna be awhile. true love waits 4 no one

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...
My opposition to the gender roles concept specifically deals with the notion that certain behaviors are inherently masculine or feminine, which often leads to the belief that men and women should act according to those stereotypes.
In this particular context, someone said Kaidan was acting feminine in animations and was mentioning bisexuality alongside it.

Extrapolating from there, doesn't the same apply to distinguishing romances based on the genders involved?  I think at it's core, that sort of mechanism has to fall back on gender stereotypes.  The idea being that a man and a woman interact differently than a woman and a woman.

Exactly. They shouldn't be the same in my opinion. Sure some things are the same, or similar, but I don't think you'd interact with a man the same as a woman. Realistically, there would be more different then just calling a character he or she.

I don't think they should be different, as far as video game romances are concerned, considering how little content and interaction these romances carry.  The romances will become bogged down in differentiating genders and most likely will rely on stereotypes of how men act in relationships vs. women.  I'd rather the romances focus on the themes that surround the individual LIs character arc throughout the story.

Superficial differences are obviously needed ('he' vs. 'she', 'beautiful' vs. 'handsome').