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[Chaotic Loon]

Criz-Zone wrote...
that's what happened to me in DA2 with Anders
I tried to romance someone else, but instead of romancing Fenris on the
mage, but pro-templar playthrough, I ended up doing the rivalmance with
Anders ... probably should finish that playthrough some time ...

I confess, I did love Anders in my first da2 playthrough....but well...you know what happens...after that I could't stand the man...err abomination.

In subsequent playthroughs I had no qualms about sampling the "goods" of the other characters ...but none of them really imprinted on me like Kaidan.  Isabella is probably my favourite...even though she is a woman...her lines and banter are classic.

Modifié par Chaotic Loon, 21 mars 2012 - 08:55 .

[Frozen83]

Asperius wrote...
Also I hate Steve's friend(s)... all one of them.  I want to punch him everytime he interrupts Steve's conversations. 

Vega? Friend(s) who? 
Just reminded me. It would be cool if Steve's and Shep's shuttle conversations would change slightly if they were in romance. Screw profesionalism, this is the end of the world! M.

[evisneffo]

RetasuNeko wrote...

I'm late to the party here, but I like FemShep/Liara quite a bit. Would have liked FemShep/Ashley, though.../sigh/

Same! Let's have a late commiseration over the empty party food bowls.


Speaking of being laaaaaate:

Aurellia wrote...

I posted detailed instructions earlier in this thread. I was able to mod a me1/2 import by changing plot flags to get ash and femshep. It worked up until the citadel meeting. To get by that I needed to sex change shep by setting isFemale to false and running through that scene as huskified Looking fem/male shep hybrid that has shepaloo's voice. I changed her back after that scene.I am an hour of gameplay away from the big moment. I'll let you know if I can have the love scene without having to change sex for the big moment.

Thanks for all the info on this! I'm gonna give it a go when I can bring myself to finish my modded ME1 game. My first ME3 Shepard had a miserable bog of a time waiting for Ash, accidentally getting Kelly killed (whoops) and almost being led astray by Sam and Diana both. Managed to do the right thing by Liara in the end though.

Asperius wrote...

He acts and looks like terrible human/primate hybrid, especially when he waves his arms up and down. Same weird anatomy also can be found in Diana, she looks unlifelike. Like a female grown up Chucky except big knife but with ugly dress.

Random but made me laugh.

Modifié par evisneffo, 21 mars 2012 - 09:21 .

[Knightly_BW]

Nejeli wrote...

Asperius wrote...

Up to this point everything you do with
Steve is about his husband, his grief for loosing him and trying to make
him get over it. Then you kiss him and bang him.

In short
everything is matter of perspective. I can understand your point of view
and respect it. To me Steve will never feel like a true romance. In my
eye for Steve, Shep is first available person to wash away last remains
of sorrow with hot sex. In short I don't like his personality I think,
at least what I saw in game. Also idea of sharing my bed with a ghost is
creeping me out.

Except there's no ghost in the bed. Steve never compares Shepard to Robert. Robert will always be there, yes, in that Steve isn't just going to forget him and pretend he never existed, but the whole point of the Memorial Wall scene was Steve coming to terms with Robert dying and moving on. He'll have moments where he misses Robert, certainly, but by the time you can romance him he's ready to try living again, the way Robert wanted him to, and a big part of that is because of Shepard, which is why he's willing to take the chance with him. (Also, I agree with Frozen83 that months have to have passed between them meeting and them finally getting together. So it's not like Steve is jumping into Shepard's bed mere days after meeting him. The game just does a very bad job of showing that time is passing.) Like I said in my other response, if all Steve wanted was to "wash away the last remains of sorrow with hot sex" there are quicker and easier ways to do so than to wait for Shepard to show an interest in him.

After the bomb mission, Steve tells Shepard to let him know that he's not in the vicinity the next time he sets off a bomb because 'for a minute, until I heard your voice, my heart stopped.' In the end conversation he tells Shepard he'll wait for him and that he better come back in one piece. Not exactly the words or actions of a man just looking for an easy lay. Their romance scene isn't explicit, and Steve never once implies he's even there for sex. He just wants to spend the time with Shepard. Aside from a few banter lines and Purgatory, their dialogue isn't even particularly titilatting. If Steve was just using Shepard for sex it would be there somewhere in the romance, and it's not.

You're welcome to your opinion, and it's fine if you think the romance just happens too fast, if it were a different set of characters in a different situation I might even agree with you, but I find many of your comments about Steve to be borderline bashing, and your constant implying that he's nothing but a user, even after people who have played out his romance tell you that's not the case, to be, well, boggling. I'm just not sure why you insist on seeing him this way, to the point of ignoring canon evidence that he's not.

Isaac or Frozen as well represented their point of view about Steve romance, which were similar to yours. In life we see things from our point of view. I also don't approve Shepard's actions with Steve if he's trying to romance with him. I think real reason behind is, that would exactly what I would do if I want to bang a guy like Steve. Keep pushing him to forget his ex-husband, broke the bonds of loyality, be good and supportive then profit. Time doesn't matter, it could take years or decades, goal is clear, banging that guy. I can't call that as genuine romance.
That Carth Syndrome also existed with Sky. He was mourning over his dead wife. However big difference was your character declares his affection for him and he comes around and accept it. With Steve all talks of Shepard is feel like forcing him to move on so he could sex/romance with him.

To me there is a big difference with a dead lover and ex-lover. Dead interrupt love but it continues to live. With break up love destined to end any way. So instead of waiting for natural emotional healing, pushing someone to get over that pain and lost ain't my thing. Anyone doing that not a person with good intentions in my book. If you really love a guy, wait and he will come to you when he feels ready.

This is why I like his friendship path more, because Shep doesn't wait something in return. This is why I don't like his personality (and Shepards) on romance. In romance Shepard is pushy b*tch who tries to get into Steve's pants and Steve is low-willed indivudal who gives in a sexual predator. I value loyality over everything in relationships. If I can't assure myself I will be loyal I will stay away from that relationship and expect same from other side. Also this is why I like Kaidan that much, he is loyal above anything else. While Steve sells his loyalty to first hormone driven hottie.

I guess this comes out a bit messed up however I hope that explained my point of view.

[Knightly_BW]

Frozen83 wrote...

Asperius wrote...
Also I hate Steve's friend(s)... all one of them.  I want to punch him everytime he interrupts Steve's conversations. 

Vega? Friend(s) who? 
Just reminded me. It would be cool if Steve's and Shep's shuttle conversations would change slightly if they were in romance. Screw profesionalism, this is the end of the world! M.

Hah! Do I hate any other guy in this game? Of course Vega.

By the way, now re-reading my remark about Diana Allers, it feels like a bit wrong. Diana even with her reasons to exist is an okay character. However her model seems like lifeless doll. Unlike other ME characters her skin has that plastic like texture. While she stays in Normandy it looks like someone put a big barbie doll in her room.

Still her dress is awfull. I am using similar one with femShep and just for laughs. I wonder if any women can sit like femShep in a dress like that. During her sit and talk conversation I keep hoping she didn't forget her underwears today. It would be quite a show for Citadel residents otherwise.

[Frozen83]

Asperius wrote...

By the way, now re-reading my remark about Diana Allers, it feels like a bit wrong. Diana even with her reasons to exist is an okay character. However her model seems like lifeless doll. Unlike other ME characters her skin has that plastic like texture. While she stays in Normandy it looks like someone put a big barbie doll in her room.

Okay? I wanted to take off her shoes and beat her to death with them... And her "follow you home line". I was stunned for about 15 seconds.
In other news, I cannot see your point of view and cannot agree with you about Cortez, but you make perfect sense and I can see and understand your logic and reasoning. For me at least, this is very refreshing, to see your point (which is totally different from mine) and engage in a discussion without flaming or yelling . M.

[Knightly_BW]

Frozen83 wrote...

Asperius wrote...

By the way, now re-reading my remark about Diana Allers, it feels like a bit wrong. Diana even with her reasons to exist is an okay character. However her model seems like lifeless doll. Unlike other ME characters her skin has that plastic like texture. While she stays in Normandy it looks like someone put a big barbie doll in her room.

Okay? I wanted to take off her shoes and beat her to death with them... And her "follow you home line". I was stunned for about 15 seconds.
In other news, I cannot see your point of view and cannot agree with you about Cortez, but you make perfect sense and I can see and understand your logic and reasoning. For me at least, this is very refreshing, to see your point (which is totally different from mine) and engage in a discussion without flaming or yelling . M.

I am okay with Diana because of that nice "Get out of my ship!" choice. I can use it anytime. She's not that into your face character like Vega or ME2 Joker. She stays in her room and I can give paragon answers to her. (Edit: Not because I am gaining paragon points but those answers represents hope Shep gives to masses)

Also while I was annoyed with Al Jillani on ME2, now with Paragon interrupt her conversation always get me emotional.

ME3 did many things right comparing to ME2. You can avoid annoying persons or give renegade interrupts (like that stupid warmonger Quarian Admiral or Salarian Dalatrass). Shep, crew and NPCs around the galaxy reflects war time emotions so well. If I have to admit, even Vega is okay if you can pass his unprofessionalism, undiciplined behavior (which I can't). This is why I think ME3 is my favorite game from Bioware. Good emotional story reflecting urgency, desperate and hopelessness of wartime, well written ex-companions/stories and how those stories executed related to main story, a good m/m romance and many friendship options. Endings can be a bit meh (which I can't see as ending yet) however rest of the game is superb.

Modifié par Asperius, 21 mars 2012 - 10:50 .

[Criz]

based on spicyshimmy's tumblr post about Kaidan and Shepard exchaning dogtags before heading into battle ...
now I'm back to crying when thinking about the endings (well, two of themthe third would make this image non-canon)

[Knightly_BW]

Ah dogtag exchange. It's as important as wedding rings, at least for us it was like that. I still have mine somewhere at home. Brings out bittersweet memories. Real life and young boys optimism don't mix well.

If your Shep survived the ending, don't worry Criz. Kaidan/Shep love is a thing even death can't take away. Shep came back from death once and found Kaidan. He can do it again and again.

[Criz]

Asperius wrote...
Shep came back from death once for Kaidan. He can do it again and again.

fixed that for you

though he's probably not even talking about the dog tags

okey, now I'm curious, are you even allowed to exchange them? I mean they are for indetification purposes, right?
do you have more than one pair?

[shepskisaac]

OK Asperius, you've stated your opinion, great. We get it, but I don't get why you need to repeat it over and over again. This is not a competition where you have to prove "my fav romance is better and this is a fact because this, this and this!". Ohh and just so you know, there are many regulars in this thread who dislike Kaidan and his m/m romance, enjoy your time while they're currently not here. They'll be back and I'll leave it to you to see how annoying it gets when someone just loves to state his/her dislike for particular romance over and over again. Trust me I know  it, because I was quite a few times single-handedly defending Kaidan in this thread while everyone was hating on him.

And now to something much more positive:

Criz-Zone wrote...

based on spicyshimmy's tumblr post about Kaidan and Shepard exchaning dogtags before heading into battle ...
now I'm back to crying when thinking about the endings (well, two of themthe third would make this image non-canon)


.

:wub::wub: I'm loving it so much that all your wonderful drawings are now canon Criz! :happy:

Modifié par IsaacShep, 21 mars 2012 - 12:37 .

[zer0netgain]

Quething wrote...

Chun Hei wrote...

My theory on why male LIs are so timid is that Bioware assumes most female heroes are being RPed by guys who will freak out if a guy aggressively hits on them. Women can be aggressive since lesbians are HAWT.

Yeah this.

In other news, every time a new name shows up and says "but why not femShep/Ash?" I die a little more inside. BIOWARE THERE ARE SO MANY OF US. WHY DID YOU NOT CARE.  

Several seem to hit on this.

It might be disappointing, but you can't make every character in the game gay/bi without it really comeing across as weird.

Ash is straight.  Kaiden (originally) was supposed to be bisexual.  Liara is mono-gendered, so no issue either way.

Second game omits Ash and Kaiden.  That there were two alien and one human male LI characters really limits options.  Jacob was never hinted at being bisexual.  Garrus and Thane were clearly straight (prior relationships).  Given the devs were so paranoid about sex scenes that everyone pretty much left their clothes on during the cinematics, I don't think the devs wanted to entertain building character profiles that would make waves.

You had four female LIs....Kelly perhaps being the only bisexual one (never played FemShep to the end to test this).

So, in ME3, you get Liara (bisexual), Steve (gay), Traynor (lesbian), Kaiden (bisexual) and Ashley (straight).

To make James a bisexual LI would be problematic.  You could make him a straight LI for FemShep, but then the MaleSheps would complain.  Leaving James off the LI menu was probably the safer choice.  Besides, as much as James is into his body, we all know he loves himself most of all.

Frankly, it would have been awesome for Shepard to go to the men's room on Deck 3 (darn game wouldn't allow this for FemShep) and catch James standing in front of the mirror, barechested, and posing his muscles while telling himself how damn sexy he is.

Modifié par zer0netgain, 21 mars 2012 - 12:41 .

[Knightly_BW]

Criz-Zone wrote...

Asperius wrote...
Shep came back from death once for Kaidan. He can do it again and again.

fixed that for you

though he's probably not even talking about the dog tags

okey, now I'm curious, are you even allowed to exchange them? I mean they are for indetification purposes, right?
do you have more than one pair?

Yes, dogtags while not forced on us, they are for identification of decased soldiers or provide faster react time in case of severe injury (your blood type also written on them). Different countries different procedures. I heard in US soldiers have two pair; one on neck and one they put in their boots, if your upper body and lower somehow found on different places. As we were not in war, one pair were enough for us.

We were able to get extra pairs easily so the exchanged ones were those. You didn't run around wearing dogtags not belonging to you of course(It is same as standing in barracks and shout out "I am gay" then get expelled). We exchanged ours on my last day for Military service then parted ways. Being on different cities, living different lives and having different responsibilities in life what we didn't clearly think on those days I guess. However a piece of our hearts hanged to those little metal plates. This is why I don't like seeing them around, they are the symbols of what I can have but couldn't.

[bas_kon]

Criz-Zone wrote...
I have to start new playthroughs and headcanon Shepard differently if I want to romance someone else. But for Hawke ... I'm locked on Anders, no way around it

 I ussed a modded "Ash alive" save and I headcannon Shepard having a crush on Kaidan in the first ME, but he gets over it in ME2 and romances Steve in ME3. Ash ended up dead again, though. It seems she's not meant to last much in my playthroughs.

@Asperius: But in the dance scene Steve is over Robert already, and he's the one to tell Shepard to dance with him just right after he says "Haven't found the right man at the right moment yet."
Plus, when you tell him you'd like to be more than friends he responds "I thought I felt there's something between us, but I was afraid it was just hope." and he even flirts with you before you make any moves, in the third conversation with the "I find it hard to say "no" to you." line (although Shep doesn't seem to catch it). That means Steve is totally into Shepard since the first time they met, but it's not untill he's ready to move on and commit to another person when he makes it obvious.

I'm starting a new playthrough, this time it's gonna end up with Shepard and the LI moving to an almost destroyed farm and restoring it, then they'll have picnics every weekend with Joker and EDI and host Anderson and Sanders when they come on holidays. The problem is which one will I choose to be my LI?? I can't choose anymore they are too good. It feels as if I was playing Straight m!shep.

[evisneffo]

zer0netgain wrote...

It might be disappointing, but you can't make every character in the game gay/bi without it really comeing across as weird.

Well, Ash was originally supposed to be bisexual too right? Anyway I agree with this bit of your post here and
that it was probably a numbers thing in the end (I've seen the point someone made about the quality and quantity problems for s/s female and male Shepards respectively), but I guess one of the main problems is that in just about all other story-wise aspects Kaidan and Ashley are treated exactly the same.

Modifié par evisneffo, 21 mars 2012 - 12:49 .

[shepskisaac]

evisneffo wrote...

I guess one of the main problems is that in just about all other story-wise aspects Kaidan and Ashley are treated exactly the same.

They were treated the same in the main-story, but not in personal story. That was always completly different.

[evisneffo]

IsaacShep wrote...
They were treated the same in the main-story, but not in personal story. That was always completly different.

Yeah of course, I didn't mean personally. But main-story-wise they are basically a substitute for each other.

[Knightly_BW]

IsaacShep wrote...

OK Asperius, you've stated your opinion, great. We get it, but I don't get why you need to repeat it over and over again. This is not a competition where you have to prove "my fav romance is better and this is a fact because this, this and this!". Ohh and just so you know, there are many regulars in this thread who dislike Kaidan and his m/m romance, enjoy your time while they're currently not here. They'll be back and I'll leave it to you to see how annoying it gets when someone just loves to state his/her dislike for particular romance over and over again. Trust me I know  it, because I was quite a few times single-handedly defending Kaidan in this thread while everyone was hating on him.

I apologize if I gave impression of being offensive or made anyone uncomfortable with my posts. I never intended to prove romance A is better than romance B. I just tried to explain my point of view when something directed at me. Anyone can say their opinion about any part of the game, I state my contrast opinion if exist, we try to understand each other and move on. There is nothing to defend or condemn.

[Quething]

IsaacShep wrote...
They were treated the same in the main-story, but not in personal story. That was always completly different.

Not really. Their personalities are different, and their character development reflects that, but they have the same role in Shepard's personal life. They're your o/s Shepard romance and your s/s Lancer, your Virmire survivor and the one who makes you justify the Virmire decision, your ally who represents and advocates for the Alliance, your doubting Thomas on Horizon who called you more than a commander and then a traitor, your only friend who won't side with you. Even in ME1 in the elevator bantor they share multiple lines, each interchangably serving the role of "Shep's human friend" in contrast to Shep's alien friends.

And in ME3? In ME3, they're your long-term ally rediscovered, the one who you can rekindle the oldest romance with or begin a new flirtation after years of silent attraction. The companion-potentially-returning-love-interest-potentially-new-love-interest. It's actually a role they also share with Liara.

And of the three squadmates who fill that role in ME3:
Kaidan can fill it for either dudeShep or femShep.
Liara can fill it for either dudeShep or femShep.
Ashley can fill it... for dudeShep.

You have to admit, even with all bias aside, that that's just bloody weird. That she's so much Kaidan's mirror that you can start a new relationship with her, just like him! Unless you're a s/s Shep... not just like him. For them to go to the trouble of creating a new romance with her for new Shepards and then restrict it is just weird. I'd buy the whole "look they're totally different characters ok" thing a lot more if she weren't available for new romance at all.

Modifié par Quething, 21 mars 2012 - 01:33 .

[Game_Fan_85]

Chaotic Loon wrote...

Criz-Zone wrote...
that's what happened to me in DA2 with Anders
I tried to romance someone else, but instead of romancing Fenris on the
mage, but pro-templar playthrough, I ended up doing the rivalmance with
Anders ... probably should finish that playthrough some time ...

I confess, I did love Anders in my first da2 playthrough....but well...you know what happens...after that I could't stand the man...err abomination.

In subsequent playthroughs I had no qualms about sampling the "goods" of the other characters ...but none of them really imprinted on me like Kaidan.  Isabella is probably my favourite...even though she is a woman...her lines and banter are classic.

Meh, that old hag got what she deserved   She could have stopped everything with a few words but wouldn't do it.  One thing about the rivalmance with Anders I thought was a bit stupid is Hawke only says "I love you" during the rivalmance, not on in the romance did he say it or have the opportunity to.  I felt so bad for Anders at the end of the game, I just wanted Hawke to give him a big hug and tell him it'd be OK.

[Frozen83]

zer0netgain wrote...

Frankly, it would have been awesome for Shepard to go to the men's room on Deck 3 (darn game wouldn't allow this for FemShep) and catch James standing in front of the mirror, barechested, and posing his muscles while telling himself how damn sexy he is.

My mind just went somewhere dirty... Like... cheap porn dirty.
@ Asperius & Isaac - dont fight, guys ...
M.

[Game_Fan_85]

With all the Steve talk going on, I wanted to say what my take on their relationship is. I don't see it as "I helped you get over your dead husband now come and jump into bed with me" or "Over Robert now, time to screw this guy!". The whole Shepard helping Steve get over the death I see as them bonding over a common theme, loss. Shepard has had plenty of that and still feels guilty about Ashley (yes, always Ashley!). For those reasons I think their relationship and its progression feel extremely natural. They feel comfortable with each other as a result and thus the relationship develops.

Same with the scene of Steve crying, it wasn't that he was just "oh boohoo I miss my husband", in both playthroughs I've had that conversation after that Cerberus lab mission where you have to retrieve reaper artifacts. At the end Steve has to fly off and leave Shepard in danger and is worried he wont make it back to save him. To me, it is obvious that this event stirred up emotions in Steve about Robert because of how he died.

Besides, we don't really know how much time the relationship is set over. The game has to be set over a few months surely?

Modifié par Game_Fan_85, 21 mars 2012 - 01:48 .

[Criz]

@Asperius
thanks for sharing, I guess the only thing I know is what one might see in american movies, I don't even know how this is handled in the german military

@Isaac
I know right?!
it's canon and ... dialog! actial mShep/Kaidan romance dialog, no more relying on dialog from modded femShep romance (though I will use it if I see fit, 'serving under you' is just too good to pass) or mHawke/Anders romance

[Game_Fan_85]

Asperius wrote...

Game_Fan_85 wrote...

Criz-Zone wrote...

that's what happened to me in DA2 with Anders
I tried to romance someone else, but instead of romancing Fenris on the mage, but pro-templar playthrough, I ended up doing the rivalmance with Anders ... probably should finish that playthrough some time ...

Ha, me too!  In all 9 plays of DA2 I just couldn't bring myself to let Hawke not be with Anders.  I hated Fenris in my first game and actually missed a lot of his story, such as fighting the slavers and meeting his sister.  He ended up dead at the end of the first game but in the second I got to know him better and liked him a but more.  Funny that I ended up friends with him as a mage.  I started his story on my third play but after Hawke slept with him it was back to Anders, just couldn't do it.

Same with me... to an extend. I always found myself in bed with Isabela. She is the most fun thing in DA2. Also she never missed my Hawke/Zevran fun, more the merrier.

Some characters written so good I can't even roleplay being mean to them. Like Miranda, Morrigan, Liara, Kaidan, Thane, Mordin, Zevran, Aveline or Isabela.

I think it was my second or third Hawke that slept with Isabela but of course, then it was back to Anders.  I loved Isabela's character, very nearly on the same level as Morrigan but I wouldn't be able to go through with it.  Same with DAO, now I have the PC version it will only ever be Alistar for the Warden

[Game_Fan_85]

Criz-Zone wrote...
@Isaac
(though I will use it if I see fit, 'serving under you' is just too good to pass)

Very disappointed that line wasn't used in ME3