307 réponses à ce sujet

[zeypher]

ah yes the illusion of choice. It might happen in next game which i seriously doi8bt it if ME3 is any indication. mate if you want to see choices and their consequences i suggest you give proper try to a game that was released last month.

[BroBear Berbil]

Seival wrote...

Much more then 2. BioWare just don't tell you everything right now. DA2 is clearly the beginning of full scale Qunary vs. Tevinter war.

(1) You can return the Tome to Qunary or let Isabella flee with it. Do you remember who wanted the Tome? Tevinters, becouse it can give them some tips on how to be more effective in battle agains Qunary.

(2) You can send Feynriel to the Tevinters or make him tranquil. This can improve Tevinter power or let it remain at current level.

(3) You can choose templars or mages. Templars will most likely be at Qunary side in Qunary vs Tevinters war. Mages will most likely be at Tevinters side.

(4) You can kill Anders or let him live. This can affect mages in general in case you choose mages side.

(5) You can kill Arishok or let him live. This can affect Qunary and templars in case you choose templars side.

(6) You can make you sister/brother a Gray Warden. This can force wardens to choose the side you choose in Qunary vs Tevinder war.

See? Already a lot of different possible outcomes to be used in DA3. Also keep in mind that Hawke can be mage or worrior or rogue. Mage Hawke will be huge bonus for Tevinters if he choose Tevinters side. Finally, keep in mind all outcomes from DA:O and DA:OA - they are already affecting DA2 story and will affect DA3 story.

"Clearly".

These variables you've conjured are mostly pretty laughable. Templars aiding a foreign invader and heathens to boot against Andrastians, albeit of a different sect of the religion? Grey Wardens, as a whole, getting involved in a conflict that would seem to have little to do with the Darkspawn because a junior member of the order has a sibling that's involved?

I think you proved the point of the person you were responding to. There are two endings unless your imagination makes more.

[Seival]

zeypher wrote...

ah yes the illusion of choice. It might happen in next game which i seriously doi8bt it if ME3 is any indication. mate if you want to see choices and their consequences i suggest you give proper try to a game that was released last month.

Game is always illusion. And it's ok for most consequences to show up much later then in the next week, month or year. BioWare RPG trilogies are not separate games actually. DA:O + DA:OA + DA2 + DA3 = one game that consist of several different parts. Each next part is improved compared to previous ones in terms of graphics and gameplay, but all parts togather are the same large story, where all made decisions are important.

[Seival]

OnionXI wrote...

I think you proved the point of the person you were responding to. There are two endings unless your imagination makes more.

Just wait for DA3 and you will see that I was correct.

EDIT: And it's great when game or book or movie forces your imagination to work. If game tells you everything and leaves your imagination "offline", then it's a bad game.

Modifié par Seival, 25 juin 2011 - 09:54 .

[Firky]

zeypher wrote...
This is the main issue, i agree da2 had some things done well. But that does not mean it has flaws, i has quite many infact. what annoys me is when people make excuses for those flaws.
People if we dont show our disppointment for those flaws, bioware will then keep persisting with them in the future, which i hope is not the case.
Reused maps, pretty average graphics scpecially compared to 2011. these are all serious flaws and no amount of sugar coating will change that. btw graphics also means npc textures etc.
finally the short devolopment cycle is no excuse, its a mistake which the devs chose to make. i see no reason why we should give them leeway becase they choose to make a game in like 15-18 months. It was their choice and it disappoints me to see people use that as an excuse to defend the game.

With respect. (Because I'm really not trying to be argumentative just for the sake of it, or to be mean. This is actually an issue that I've reflected on and feel is important to discuss. All opinions are valid.)

While I think it's fine for people/fans/whoever to analyse or criticise the game, the idea that people who liked the game should either shut up or be made to feel like "traitors to the RPG/gaming cause" (for lack of a better way to sum it up) is kind of a sad turn up for the current discourse on gaming.

This is for the following reasons. (Not that I'm trying to be an ego-maniac, but I can only really speak from my experience.)

- I thought that it was a great game so I don't have much disappointment to show. Bring on DLC and DAIII. Seriously.
- The recycled areas and dodgy, townie NPCs weren't ideal but they didn't bother me overmuch, because I was enjoying other aspects of the game. I don't know how they prioritised time/resources, I don't know if it's reasonable to expect everything to be thoroughly polished, and when I say "it's not ideal but it didn't really matter to me" that's the truth.
- Many of the other things people are holding up as "flaws" aren't inconsistent with gameplay, like the "exploding enemies." After the last patch, I kinda miss them. They suited how I was experiencing combat; struggling on the higher difficulties, turning my attention to the next batch of reinforcements etc. I understand if other people thought it was immersion breaking, but I liked it.

There is no one correct opinion on what makes a good game. I don't see anything wrong with people posting feedback about the game, positive, negative or constructive. I like a more old school RPG model too, but if DAII continues on its current path, it's still going to be a franchise that I'm interested in. It's truthful feedback. It may not reflect the entire established fanbase, but it's just one person's comment on a forum.

If they do decide to address what seems to be more "widely agreed upon" criticism, like getting rid of the reinforcements, for example, some of us would genuinely miss the reinforcements. I have no idea how they are sifting through all of this feedback, but positive voices have to be seen to be as legitimate as constructive/negative voices. It's not about defending "bad" aspects of the game, it's about being free to provide truthful feedback.

[Dariuszp]

Firky wrote...

zeypher wrote...
This is the main issue, i agree da2 had some things done well. But that does not mean it has flaws, i has quite many infact. what annoys me is when people make excuses for those flaws.
People if we dont show our disppointment for those flaws, bioware will then keep persisting with them in the future, which i hope is not the case.
Reused maps, pretty average graphics scpecially compared to 2011. these are all serious flaws and no amount of sugar coating will change that. btw graphics also means npc textures etc.
finally the short devolopment cycle is no excuse, its a mistake which the devs chose to make. i see no reason why we should give them leeway becase they choose to make a game in like 15-18 months. It was their choice and it disappoints me to see people use that as an excuse to defend the game.

With respect. (Because I'm really not trying to be argumentative just for the sake of it, or to be mean. This is actually an issue that I've reflected on and feel is important to discuss. All opinions are valid.)

While I think it's fine for people/fans/whoever to analyse or criticise the game, the idea that people who liked the game should either shut up or be made to feel like "traitors to the RPG/gaming cause" (for lack of a better way to sum it up) is kind of a sad turn up for the current discourse on gaming.

This is for the following reasons. (Not that I'm trying to be an ego-maniac, but I can only really speak from my experience.)

- I thought that it was a great game so I don't have much disappointment to show. Bring on DLC and DAIII. Seriously.
- The recycled areas and dodgy, townie NPCs weren't ideal but they didn't bother me overmuch, because I was enjoying other aspects of the game. I don't know how they prioritised time/resources, I don't know if it's reasonable to expect everything to be thoroughly polished, and when I say "it's not ideal but it didn't really matter to me" that's the truth.
- Many of the other things people are holding up as "flaws" aren't inconsistent with gameplay, like the "exploding enemies." After the last patch, I kinda miss them. They suited how I was experiencing combat; struggling on the higher difficulties, turning my attention to the next batch of reinforcements etc. I understand if other people thought it was immersion breaking, but I liked it.

There is no one correct opinion on what makes a good game. I don't see anything wrong with people posting feedback about the game, positive, negative or constructive. I like a more old school RPG model too, but if DAII continues on its current path, it's still going to be a franchise that I'm interested in. It's truthful feedback. It may not reflect the entire established fanbase, but it's just one person's comment on a forum.

If they do decide to address what seems to be more "widely agreed upon" criticism, like getting rid of the reinforcements, for example, some of us would genuinely miss the reinforcements. I have no idea how they are sifting through all of this feedback, but positive voices have to be seen to be as legitimate as constructive/negative voices. It's not about defending "bad" aspects of the game, it's about being free to provide truthful feedback.

So you dont mind that next BW game is worst than last one. Fine by you but dont expect us to like it. Year after year, title after title they remove some feature that we like and add some stupid ones. Dialogues were downgraded. From interesting dialogues in old games to good/bad ME style with that paragon/renegade "I WIN THIS CONVERSATION" options to "good/stupid/bad" DA II style.
Companions was dongraded. From interesting characters with some story we learn as we play, romances that need some effort and stuff like that to hollow ******/bi "let have some sex" characters.
Gameplay was switch from tactical that require planing to button smashing with "Awesome button".
Decisions were just removed in DA II. You have only illusion of choice.
They show us nice feature in Kotor series. Synchronized animation with mele fighters. Clashing swords and stuff. Dont know if it was too much for them to do but they remove it. Just like that. What we get are oversized swords with stupid, robot-like fast movements.
I can talk about all downgrades all the time. That where the problem lies. Not if DA II is good or bad. And it's definitly not best game. It's avarage at most.

You missed whole point. For example that reinforcements. It's not bad thing but IT HAPPEN ALL THE TIME. And they dont get to fight from some places around you. They just are droped from mid-air. It's cheap and stupid. All things you mentioned are bad. But you say that it dosent matter.

That are those low standards I was talking about. Recent games are created for wider audience. They dont care about quality. They want to sell more. What is biggest fanbase out there ? Shooters. Shooters like COD. And this game is for stupid people. Why ? All you do is press W and shoot. You dont need to hide, you dont need to dodge bullets or something. W, shoot, W, shoot. If your HP go down, sit behind wall and wait 5 seconds. Then W and shoot.

"They want this kind of people play RPG ? How ? They make RPG like that. R and 1,2,3... R and 1,2,3. Waves of monsters. You are so powerfull. Click awesome button. Dagger that blow up stuff. WOW. Awesome. I got bigger sword than you do. And I swing it like it's nothing. You know this location. Just press forward and 1,2,3 R, 2,3, R... Yeah, another dragon down, 5 to go. Awesome. Oh, good achivement sergant... eeee... Hawk. Need to talk ? You are badass. Select options from the bottom. You are so baddass. Another wave... press awesome button. Something awesome will happen...".

This is what DA II is right now. And this is what we will see in next BW titles probably. So it's time to find someone better than BW. They forget how to make good RPG. Now they make cheap imitations.

Modifié par Dariuszp, 26 juin 2011 - 10:36 .

[Firky]

^ Hey. Good timing. I was just checking back on the thread.

I think I've made my point, though. I don't think I have much more to add. I don't believe I have low standards, I thought DAII was great, better than Origins in a few key ways, and I think I have a right to voice positive feedback, just as people have a right to discuss things they didn't like. (PS. I don't think that not particularly caring about parachuting reinforcements means I have low standards. I thought the improvement to my combat experience, thanks to the reinforcements, was worth losing some realism. It's a tradeoff.)

Look, I do think that the critical voices have been pretty loud. I'm sure BioWare cares about its established fanbase and that they're addressing these common criticisms. It would be sad if they lost people who wanted more traditional RPG features in their games, because that's how I remember the BioWare of old.

Modifié par Firky, 26 juin 2011 - 10:37 .

[Cody211282]

Dariuszp wrote...

Firky wrote...

zeypher wrote...
This is the main issue, i agree da2 had some things done well. But that does not mean it has flaws, i has quite many infact. what annoys me is when people make excuses for those flaws.
People if we dont show our disppointment for those flaws, bioware will then keep persisting with them in the future, which i hope is not the case.
Reused maps, pretty average graphics scpecially compared to 2011. these are all serious flaws and no amount of sugar coating will change that. btw graphics also means npc textures etc.
finally the short devolopment cycle is no excuse, its a mistake which the devs chose to make. i see no reason why we should give them leeway becase they choose to make a game in like 15-18 months. It was their choice and it disappoints me to see people use that as an excuse to defend the game.

With respect. (Because I'm really not trying to be argumentative just for the sake of it, or to be mean. This is actually an issue that I've reflected on and feel is important to discuss. All opinions are valid.)

While I think it's fine for people/fans/whoever to analyse or criticise the game, the idea that people who liked the game should either shut up or be made to feel like "traitors to the RPG/gaming cause" (for lack of a better way to sum it up) is kind of a sad turn up for the current discourse on gaming.

This is for the following reasons. (Not that I'm trying to be an ego-maniac, but I can only really speak from my experience.)

- I thought that it was a great game so I don't have much disappointment to show. Bring on DLC and DAIII. Seriously.
- The recycled areas and dodgy, townie NPCs weren't ideal but they didn't bother me overmuch, because I was enjoying other aspects of the game. I don't know how they prioritised time/resources, I don't know if it's reasonable to expect everything to be thoroughly polished, and when I say "it's not ideal but it didn't really matter to me" that's the truth.
- Many of the other things people are holding up as "flaws" aren't inconsistent with gameplay, like the "exploding enemies." After the last patch, I kinda miss them. They suited how I was experiencing combat; struggling on the higher difficulties, turning my attention to the next batch of reinforcements etc. I understand if other people thought it was immersion breaking, but I liked it.

There is no one correct opinion on what makes a good game. I don't see anything wrong with people posting feedback about the game, positive, negative or constructive. I like a more old school RPG model too, but if DAII continues on its current path, it's still going to be a franchise that I'm interested in. It's truthful feedback. It may not reflect the entire established fanbase, but it's just one person's comment on a forum.

If they do decide to address what seems to be more "widely agreed upon" criticism, like getting rid of the reinforcements, for example, some of us would genuinely miss the reinforcements. I have no idea how they are sifting through all of this feedback, but positive voices have to be seen to be as legitimate as constructive/negative voices. It's not about defending "bad" aspects of the game, it's about being free to provide truthful feedback.

So you dont mind that next BW game is worst than last one. Fine by you but dont expect us to like it. Year after year, title after title they remove some feature that we like and add some stupid ones. Dialogues were downgraded. From interesting dialogues in old games to good/bad ME style with that paragon/renegade "I WIN THIS CONVERSATION" options to "good/stupid/bad" DA II style.
Companions was dongraded. From interesting characters with some story we learn as we play, romances that need some effort and stuff like that to hollow ******/bi "let have some sex" characters.
Gameplay was switch from tactical that require planing to button smashing with "Awesome button".
Decisions were just removed in DA II. You have only illusion of choice.
They show us nice feature in Kotor series. Synchronized animation with mele fighters. Clashing swords and stuff. Dont know if it was too much for them to do but they remove it. Just like that. What we get are oversized swords with stupid, robot-like fast movements.
I can talk about all downgrades all the time. That where the problem lies. Not if DA II is good or bad. And it's definitly not best game. It's avarage at most.

You missed whole point. For example that reinforcements. It's not bad thing but IT HAPPEN ALL THE TIME. And they dont get to fight from some places around you. They just are droped from mid-air. It's cheap and stupid. All things you mentioned are bad. But you say that it dosent matter.

That are those low standards I was talking about. Recent games are created for wider audience. They dont care about quality. They want to sell more. What is biggest fanbase out there ? Shooters. Shooters like COD. And this game is for stupid people. Why ? All you do is press W and shoot. You dont need to hide, you dont need to dodge bullets or something. W, shoot, W, shoot. If your HP go down, sit behind wall and wait 5 seconds. Then W and shoot.

"They want this kind of people play RPG ? How ? They make RPG like that. R and 1,2,3... R and 1,2,3. Waves of monsters. You are so powerfull. Click awesome button. Dagger that blow up stuff. WOW. Awesome. I got bigger sword than you do. And I swing it like it's nothing. You know this location. Just press forward and 1,2,3 R, 2,3, R... Yeah, another dragon down, 5 to go. Awesome. Oh, good achivement sergant... eeee... Hawk. Need to talk ? You are badass. Select options from the bottom. You are so baddass. Another wave... press awesome button. Something awesome will happen...".

This is what DA II is right now. And this is what we will see in next BW titles probably. So it's time to find someone better than BW. They forget how to make good RPG. Now they make cheap imitations.

You know I was this close to thinking that DA2 couldn't have been as bad as I remembered and maybe it was time for a second run of it.

Thank you for saving me from what would have been a colossal waste of time.

[Persephone]

Dariuszp wrote...


1) So you dont mind that next BW game is worst than last one.

2) Fine by you but dont expect us to like it. Year after year, title after title they remove some feature that we like and add some stupid ones. Dialogues were downgraded. From interesting dialogues in old games to good/bad ME style with that paragon/renegade "I WIN THIS CONVERSATION" options to "good/stupid/bad" DA II style.

3) Companions was dongraded. From interesting characters with some story we learn as we play, romances that need some effort and stuff like that to hollow ******/bi "let have some sex" characters.

4) Gameplay was switch from tactical that require planing to button smashing with "Awesome button".
*Snips*
5) They dont care about quality. They want to sell more. What is biggest fanbase out there ? Shooters. Shooters like COD. And this game is for stupid people

"They want this kind of people play RPG ? How ? They make RPG like that. R and 1,2,3... R and 1,2,3. Waves of monsters. You are so powerfull. Click awesome button. Dagger that blow up stuff. *Snips*

This is what DA II is right now. And this is what we will see in next BW titles probably. So it's time to find someone better than BW.

1) It is? According to what dogma? DAII is flawed, yes, but IMO DAO had just as many glaring flaws.

2) Who is us? And they obviously haven't "downgraded" it enough, given your falsification of the dialogue system. The system isn't perfect, but it's a huge improvement over ME.

3) That's an utter, blatant LIE.

4) Aren't you guys done with the stale Awesome Button joke? I'm this close to inventing the Repeat Button for that kind of "wit".

5) Wonderful. The "stupid Shooter crowd" cliché. Charming.

So find someone better than Bioware. PLEASE. SOON! They are LUCKY to have you. :innocent:

[Seival]

Well, It looks like all whiners in DA-2 forums are the ones who expected DA-2 to be DA:O-1.5... Sorry, but BioWare have already made add-on to DA:O. They can't make add-ons for one game forever, that's why they made DA2.

Dear whiners. Please, stop whining and accusing BW in something they did not make. DA2 has disadvantages. But these disadvantages don't make the game terrible. Besides, most of these disadvantages can be fixed even before DA3.

[Night Prowler76]

Shouldnt this be  moved to the review section? Any negative review gets locked or moved, why not this one?

[Persephone]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Shouldnt this be  moved to the review section? Any negative review gets locked or moved, why not this one?

Because the Mods aren't around 24/7? They do have lives/jobs, ya know?

[Chromie]

Persephone wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Shouldnt this be  moved to the review section? Any negative review gets locked or moved, why not this one?

Because the Mods aren't around 24/7? They do have lives/jobs, ya know?

It's been 13 days...

[Dariuszp]

Persephone wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...


1) So you dont mind that next BW game is worst than last one.

2) Fine by you but dont expect us to like it. Year after year, title after title they remove some feature that we like and add some stupid ones. Dialogues were downgraded. From interesting dialogues in old games to good/bad ME style with that paragon/renegade "I WIN THIS CONVERSATION" options to "good/stupid/bad" DA II style.

3) Companions was dongraded. From interesting characters with some story we learn as we play, romances that need some effort and stuff like that to hollow ******/bi "let have some sex" characters.

4) Gameplay was switch from tactical that require planing to button smashing with "Awesome button".
*Snips*
5) They dont care about quality. They want to sell more. What is biggest fanbase out there ? Shooters. Shooters like COD. And this game is for stupid people

"They want this kind of people play RPG ? How ? They make RPG like that. R and 1,2,3... R and 1,2,3. Waves of monsters. You are so powerfull. Click awesome button. Dagger that blow up stuff. *Snips*

This is what DA II is right now. And this is what we will see in next BW titles probably. So it's time to find someone better than BW.

1) It is? According to what dogma? DAII is flawed, yes, but IMO DAO had just as many glaring flaws.

2) Who is us? And they obviously haven't "downgraded" it enough, given your falsification of the dialogue system. The system isn't perfect, but it's a huge improvement over ME.

3) That's an utter, blatant LIE.

4) Aren't you guys done with the stale Awesome Button joke? I'm this close to inventing the Repeat Button for that kind of "wit".

5) Wonderful. The "stupid Shooter crowd" cliché. Charming.

So find someone better than Bioware. PLEASE. SOON! They are LUCKY to have you. :innocent:

1. Comparing features now and before

2. System isn'y perfect ? It's improvement over ME ? :| Are you kidding me or what ? In ME you got some options + paragon/renegade "I WIN THIS CONVERSATION" options that give you best outcome. Here you have something even more stupid. Because you dont have additional dialogue options (except that when you can get some info). You have on top "good option", in the middle "stupid option" and at the bottom "evil option". You call it conversation ? What next ? Fable "left mouse button good, right bad" ?? If you think that right now this system have any value then sorry...

3. Based on what you call me a liar ? You meet them. You do 1 quest with them. Male or female - they want to fu** you.

4. It's probably because that exploding bodies and difficoult level. You press R and something awesome will happen. You press 1 - same. You press 2 - whoa, more exloding bodies. It was fixed just recently.

5. Sorry but this is reality. It's not like only stupid people play shooters. I play shooters. I enjoy Bad Company 2 multiplayer more than any other MP game except old neverwinter. It's just that this kind of games are simple as hell. Cod first of them. You need really try to loose in this games. WSAD for movement. RMB to aim. LMB to shoot. Nothing more needed. Simple as that.

I did find better. Still BW is my favorite company out there along with Obsidian. So I would love to see some good games from them. And I do complain because if I would not - they would think that they are doing good job. Next thing you know - they will serve us another crap like DA II. I hope it will never happen. Good that you defend BW and DA II. But some people come to restaurant and want some good food if they pay for it. Not some fast-food called DA II.

[EDIT]
PS: About that awesome button joke :-D



[

Modifié par Dariuszp, 26 juin 2011 - 07:28 .

[Gunderic]

Well, BioWare kind of brought it on themselves by pushing this marketing slogan so, yeah, I think it's fair criticism. The video "BioWare presents: The state of the gaming industry" on youtube was especially hilarious.

I think it's more of a testament to the BioWare/EA marketing department's own notion of 'wit' than that of anyone else's though.

Modifié par Gunderic, 26 juin 2011 - 08:26 .

[Gunderic]

Seival wrote...

Well, It looks like all whiners in DA-2 forums are the ones who expected DA-2 to be DA:O-1.5... Sorry, but BioWare have already made add-on to DA:O. They can't make add-ons for one game forever, that's why they made DA2.

Dear whiners. Please, stop whining and accusing BW in something they did not make. DA2 has disadvantages. But these disadvantages don't make the game terrible. Besides, most of these disadvantages can be fixed even before DA3.

Okay... just tell me to which address I should send my copy to so BioWare/EA can 'fix it'.

Modifié par Gunderic, 26 juin 2011 - 08:32 .

[Dariuszp]

Hehe. Someone even make 4 hours video from this :-D


SCARY!

And this is the original:


So every time Bioware will screw up - they will probably see this video :-D

[Gunderic]

Firky wrote...

zeypher wrote...
This is the main issue, i agree da2 had some things done well. But that does not mean it has flaws, i has quite many infact. what annoys me is when people make excuses for those flaws.
People if we dont show our disppointment for those flaws, bioware will then keep persisting with them in the future, which i hope is not the case.
Reused maps, pretty average graphics scpecially compared to 2011. these are all serious flaws and no amount of sugar coating will change that. btw graphics also means npc textures etc.
finally the short devolopment cycle is no excuse, its a mistake which the devs chose to make. i see no reason why we should give them leeway becase they choose to make a game in like 15-18 months. It was their choice and it disappoints me to see people use that as an excuse to defend the game.

With respect. (Because I'm really not trying to be argumentative just for the sake of it, or to be mean. This is actually an issue that I've reflected on and feel is important to discuss. All opinions are valid.)

While I think it's fine for people/fans/whoever to analyse or criticise the game, the idea that people who liked the game should either shut up or be made to feel like "traitors to the RPG/gaming cause" (for lack of a better way to sum it up) is kind of a sad turn up for the current discourse on gaming.

This is for the following reasons. (Not that I'm trying to be an ego-maniac, but I can only really speak from my experience.)

- I thought that it was a great game so I don't have much disappointment to show. Bring on DLC and DAIII. Seriously.
- The recycled areas and dodgy, townie NPCs weren't ideal but they didn't bother me overmuch, because I was enjoying other aspects of the game. I don't know how they prioritised time/resources, I don't know if it's reasonable to expect everything to be thoroughly polished, and when I say "it's not ideal but it didn't really matter to me" that's the truth.
- Many of the other things people are holding up as "flaws" aren't inconsistent with gameplay, like the "exploding enemies." After the last patch, I kinda miss them. They suited how I was experiencing combat; struggling on the higher difficulties, turning my attention to the next batch of reinforcements etc. I understand if other people thought it was immersion breaking, but I liked it.

While seeing the same clean, plastic-like environments was unsettling -- not just the recycled environments outside of Kirkwall, but Kirkwall itself, that felt like a cage -- a larger problem, I'd say, were the mostly simple 'filler', go-there-kill-that shallow quests that lacked any meaningful decisions/character development and made the game feel more like a dungeon crawler.

I think it's fair to refer to Dragon Age 2, in other terms, as: "Origins on a treadmill".

Modifié par Gunderic, 26 juin 2011 - 08:53 .

[Firky]

Gunderic wrote...
Well, BioWare kind of brought it on themselves by pushing this marketing slogan so, yeah, I think it's fair criticism. The video "BioWare presents: The state of the gaming industry" on youtube was especially hilarious.

Well, the marketing didn't appeal to me. Button = Awesome isn't something I'm looking for in a game. Nor am I into all that tiny DLC for doing stuff on Facebook etc.

But that "state of the industry" video just strung together the quotes of individual people, out of context, for the purpose of making them look stoopid. Doesn't seem constructive to me. But whatever floats your boat.

(PS. Those combat animations in that video posted above make me want to play DW rogue. I imagine if you were playing on casual, on console, and literally just pressing AAAA, you'd need something visually exciting, like that, to keep you interested. I don't see the combat animations strung together like that on nightmare, on PC, - and I don't have a DW rogue right now - but I am enjoying learning things like how to time actions around how the mages move, for example. It's another small aspect I can work into overall strategy.)

[Morroian]

Dariuszp wrote...

1. Comparing features now and before

2. System isn'y perfect ? It's improvement over ME ? :| Are you kidding me or what ? In ME you got some options + paragon/renegade "I WIN THIS CONVERSATION" options that give you best outcome. Here you have something even more stupid. Because you dont have additional dialogue options (except that when you can get some info). You have on top "good option", in the middle "stupid option" and at the bottom "evil option". You call it conversation ? What next ? Fable "left mouse button good, right bad" ?? If you think that right now this system have any value then sorry...

3. Based on what you call me a liar ? You meet them. You do 1 quest with them. Male or female - they want to fu** you.

4. It's probably because that exploding bodies and difficoult level. You press R and something awesome will happen. You press 1 - same. You press 2 - whoa, more exloding bodies. It was fixed just recently.

5. Sorry but this is reality. It's not like only stupid people play shooters. I play shooters. I enjoy Bad Company 2 multiplayer more than any other MP game except old neverwinter. It's just that this kind of games are simple as hell. Cod first of them. You need really try to loose in this games. WSAD for movement. RMB to aim. LMB to shoot. Nothing more needed. Simple as that.

1. Listing things out is irrelevant. I got more enjoymwent out of DA2 thats whats important to me. Games are entertainment after all.

2. Whether you're doing it deliberately or not you're actually completely wrong about the dialogue options. Bottom isn't evil for one thing, and they're hardly instant I win scenarios either. Certain encounters will play out differently depending on the character you've established thats all, not an I win thing. And yes I was able to role play through dialogue using the options  better than in DAO.

3. No they don't actually not even Isabela. The characters are distinct and overall characterised better than DAO.

4. Combat was just as tactical as in DAO, maybe you need to play it on the higher levels.

5. Shooters are in general harder to play than rpgs so its a pretty stupid argument.

[csfteeeer]

Morroian wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...

1. Comparing features now and before

2. System isn'y perfect ? It's improvement over ME ? :| Are you kidding me or what ? In ME you got some options + paragon/renegade "I WIN THIS CONVERSATION" options that give you best outcome. Here you have something even more stupid. Because you dont have additional dialogue options (except that when you can get some info). You have on top "good option", in the middle "stupid option" and at the bottom "evil option". You call it conversation ? What next ? Fable "left mouse button good, right bad" ?? If you think that right now this system have any value then sorry...

3. Based on what you call me a liar ? You meet them. You do 1 quest with them. Male or female - they want to fu** you.

4. It's probably because that exploding bodies and difficoult level. You press R and something awesome will happen. You press 1 - same. You press 2 - whoa, more exloding bodies. It was fixed just recently.

5. Sorry but this is reality. It's not like only stupid people play shooters. I play shooters. I enjoy Bad Company 2 multiplayer more than any other MP game except old neverwinter. It's just that this kind of games are simple as hell. Cod first of them. You need really try to loose in this games. WSAD for movement. RMB to aim. LMB to shoot. Nothing more needed. Simple as that.

1. Listing things out is irrelevant. I got more enjoymwent out of DA2 thats whats important to me. Games are entertainment after all.

2. Whether you're doing it deliberately or not you're actually completely wrong about the dialogue options. Bottom isn't evil for one thing, and they're hardly instant I win scenarios either. Certain encounters will play out differently depending on the character you've established thats all, not an I win thing. And yes I was able to role play through dialogue using the options  better than in DAO.

3. No they don't actually not even Isabela. The characters are distinct and overall characterised better than DAO.

4. Combat was just as tactical as in DAO, maybe you need to play it on the higher levels.

5. Shooters are in general harder to play than rpgs so its a pretty stupid argument.

1) Agreed, it's all personal

2) you're right, cause what you say hardly matters at all, except when dealing with the companions, in which case, then is more understandable, but not really, cause you can choose a type of answer 70-90% being thesame in some characters (Isabela likes Sarcasm, Aveline likes Charm) , you don't even have to READ what you say thanks to those little emoticons( you wanna flirt? pick the heart, you don't have to read), which is easier to manuver, yes, but i almost found it as an Insult to my intelligence, but that's just me.

3) Agree with you... .in a bad way, but i agree.

4) no it wasn't, it disguised itself to look like it is, but The Fact that the Enemies Level up with to the max, which almost makes the leveling up unnecesary (ALMOST), The STUPID amount of health the enemies had, and those god awful and pathetically lazy waves ruin it.

5) how are shooters harder to play? there are some out there (like Half Life), but not many, unless you talk about Difficulty, in which case then you're probably right.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 27 juin 2011 - 01:20 .

[Dariuszp]

Shooters are harder ? What ? ;-D If we talk about SP here then no. They are easy. Old shooters was fun and challenging. Today shooters are just nice animations, scripting and stuff. Most of them are easy and simple.
MP is something different (thats why i love Bad Company 2) because every enemy out there is controled by humans and they are same as you.

Combat tactical ? Sorry but no. You just spam spells and send mele fighters into combat. That's it. Higher level ? I have been there. Only thing that is differenti is that it's take longer to kill them. Not harder. Longer.

Yes, characters are bunch of bi/gay people (how is that Hawk can only gather this kind of people ? bad luck or what ?) that want to f*** you. Nothing more. Try older BW games like Baldurs Gate. 300h of gameplay and in that time you can get to know your companions. It's far better. And they are interesting. Dam, even in not so old KOTOR it was fun to get info about them.

About dialogues. "I WIN" scenerio is in ME. Here you just have 3 answers. Good/stupid/bad in this order. With icons so you can be sure. It's so stupid and simple that it's insulting like csfteeeeer said.

Pk 1. is personal but still if you see conversations, combat, locations, companions and stuff like that - new BW games are just worst. Like they dont know where they are heading. But that just me.

Modifié par Dariuszp, 27 juin 2011 - 05:30 .

[Persephone]

Dariuszp wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...


1) So you dont mind that next BW game is worst than last one.

2) Fine by you but dont expect us to like it. Year after year, title after title they remove some feature that we like and add some stupid ones. Dialogues were downgraded. From interesting dialogues in old games to good/bad ME style with that paragon/renegade "I WIN THIS CONVERSATION" options to "good/stupid/bad" DA II style.

3) Companions was dongraded. From interesting characters with some story we learn as we play, romances that need some effort and stuff like that to hollow ******/bi "let have some sex" characters.

4) Gameplay was switch from tactical that require planing to button smashing with "Awesome button".
*Snips*
5) They dont care about quality. They want to sell more. What is biggest fanbase out there ? Shooters. Shooters like COD. And this game is for stupid people

"They want this kind of people play RPG ? How ? They make RPG like that. R and 1,2,3... R and 1,2,3. Waves of monsters. You are so powerfull. Click awesome button. Dagger that blow up stuff. *Snips*

This is what DA II is right now. And this is what we will see in next BW titles probably. So it's time to find someone better than BW.

1) It is? According to what dogma? DAII is flawed, yes, but IMO DAO had just as many glaring flaws.

2) Who is us? And they obviously haven't "downgraded" it enough, given your falsification of the dialogue system. The system isn't perfect, but it's a huge improvement over ME.

3) That's an utter, blatant LIE.

4) Aren't you guys done with the stale Awesome Button joke? I'm this close to inventing the Repeat Button for that kind of "wit".

5) Wonderful. The "stupid Shooter crowd" cliché. Charming.

So find someone better than Bioware. PLEASE. SOON! They are LUCKY to have you. :innocent:

1. Comparing features now and before

2. System isn'y perfect ? It's improvement over ME ? :| Are you kidding me or what ? In ME you got some options + paragon/renegade "I WIN THIS CONVERSATION" options that give you best outcome. Here you have something even more stupid. Because you dont have additional dialogue options (except that when you can get some info). You have on top "good option", in the middle "stupid option" and at the bottom "evil option". You call it conversation ? What next ? Fable "left mouse button good, right bad" ?? If you think that right now this system have any value then sorry...

3. Based on what you call me a liar ? You meet them. You do 1 quest with them. Male or female - they want to fu** you.

4. It's probably because that exploding bodies and difficoult level. You press R and something awesome will happen. You press 1 - same. You press 2 - whoa, more exloding bodies. It was fixed just recently.

5. Sorry but this is reality. It's not like only stupid people play shooters. I play shooters. I enjoy Bad Company 2 multiplayer more than any other MP game except old neverwinter. It's just that this kind of games are simple as hell. Cod first of them. You need really try to loose in this games. WSAD for movement. RMB to aim. LMB to shoot. Nothing more needed. Simple as that.

I did find better. Still BW is my favorite company out there along with Obsidian. So I would love to see some good games from them. And I do complain because if I would not - they would think that they are doing good job. Next thing you know - they will serve us another crap like DA II. I hope it will never happen. Good that you defend BW and DA II. But some people come to restaurant and want some good food if they pay for it. Not some fast-food called DA II.

[EDIT]
PS: About that awesome button joke :-D

2) Yes it is an definite improvement. You still haven't grasped how it works though. And spare me your pity, I neither want it nor do I need it.

3) And you lied again. Confused it with DAO where you only have one companion quest? 

4) I don't press any of those buttons, I play on the PC. I use Tactics, Abilities, Positions etc. And Mods. And damn, it's fun compared to DAO.

5) No. It's not reality. End of story.

6) I don't care what "some people" want. I don't care about your rudeness and your fabrications. Nor do I care about your whining. And spare me the restaurant garbage, the comparison doesn't hold.

And the Awesome Button joke is juvenile, pathetic garbage. A pathetic excuse for "wit". Even worse than your Rinse and Repeat Button.

[TEWR]

) They dont care about quality. They want to sell more. What is biggest fanbase out there ? Shooters. Shooters like COD. And this game is for stupid people

Darius.... did you really just call people who play shooters stupid?




Seems to me you're the idiot because of that comment, as I happen to know plenty of people with IQs the same as mine or higher (mine was 146 last I checked, which was 4 years ago) and they like shooters.

In fact, I like shooters. Am I a stupid person? Nope.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 juin 2011 - 05:40 .

[Persephone]

Dariuszp wrote...

Yes, characters are bunch of bi/gay people (how is that Hawk can only gather this kind of people ? bad luck or what ?) that want to f*** you. Nothing more.

About dialogues. "I WIN" scenerio is in ME. Here you just have 3 answers. Good/stupid/bad in this order. With icons so you can be sure. It's so stupid and simple that it's insulting like csfteeeeer said.

Have you even PLAYED DAII? Given the outright lies above, I doubt it. Never mind your constant sexism and repetetive vitriol spouting. Go play BG with its stereotypical "romances". (Sorry, as a woman, I despise Anomen)