307 réponses à ce sujet

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Sigh...

Lord, How was your Day?

[erynnar]

Realmzmaster wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Jaldaric wrote...

Maedryc wrote...

Dude, that's obvious: because if they **** loud enough on the forums, Bioware will see the errors of its ways and admit that they were wrong all along, that the people on the net were right, make apology and give them back DA:O in all its immaculate perfection. And if they have to resort to ridiculous hyperbole to make their point, then so be it. 
Makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

Maybe they still post because they want BW to make a better game, and not a ******-poor phone in attempt like DA2?

Just saying..

And the title, and the OP's post made me laugh. Thanks for that.

This^ Because I would like a better game with the kind of quality story that BioWare does so well. They had three great (non save-the-world epics) that would have been awesome.

Well if that is the case, gamers who liked DA2 and think it was a good or great game should be equally as loud to get their opinion across to Bioware. We can then let Bioware/EA sort it all out and decide who gets the game they want. Or maybe Bioware will try to split the difference.
Better yet I think Bioware should go make the game they want to make in DA3 and let the chips fall where they will.

Most people who loved the the game, that I have read, admit to the same flaws I saw in it. They were just able to overlook them and enjoy the game despite them (like I do with DAO's).  Good for them, and it makes me happy that you and others were able to.

But don't tell me a game that was developed in 18 months vs 4 yeas is a better game. It isn't, and couldn't be, by any stretch of anyone's imagination (even if it's flexible as taffy on a taffy puller). There's suspension of disbelief, and hanging disbelief by the neck until dead.

And I have never, nor never will, tell those that loved it to shut the **** up. They (and you) have just as much right to voice your opinons of the game). IN fact, I have supported the positive threads, very much so. 

It wasn't a great game, even if it had come from some other dev compnany. It would have been a very good first attempt by a new company, sure. But it wasn't from a new company. It was from BioWare. For a BioWare game it was meh to not so good. That you enjoyed it immensly or sorta immensly (not speaking for you so not sure how much) great. But your enjoyment doesn't make it a great game or a good game. It makes it an enjoyable experience for you and those who felt the same way. There are games whose quality is lacking that I enjoy, doesn't make them great, just fun for me (I won't go into all that made it a meh and not so good game, those things have been done to death. Well okay maybe one, *cough* recycled enviornents*cough*) and are easily found on the constructive crit thread.

So, please, opost your love. I hope they listen to both crowds. But sales say it wasn't necessarliy a great game either, no matter the theory that people like myself are the "loud minority." Again, only time and DLC and DA3 :)sales  will tell.

[Cutlass Jack]

erynnar wrote...

But don't tell me a game that was developed in 18 months vs 4 yeas is a better game. It isn't, and couldn't be, by any stretch of anyone's imagination (even if it's flexible as taffy on a taffy puller). There's suspension of disbelief, and hanging disbelief by the neck until dead.

So its impossible for you to believe that anyone could possibly have enjoyed DA2 more than DAO? That the entire world is 100% unified on the reverse? I find that a bigger stretch personally.

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

erynnar wrote...

But don't tell me a game that was developed in 18 months vs 4 yeas is a better game. It isn't, and couldn't be, by any stretch of anyone's imagination (even if it's flexible as taffy on a taffy puller). There's suspension of disbelief, and hanging disbelief by the neck until dead.

So its impossible for you to believe that anyone could possibly have enjoyed DA2 more than DAO? That the entire world is 100% unified on the reverse? I find that a bigger stretch personally.

Cap'n speaks the truth. We just get excitable as to choice, like to have our optimism open.

[Dariuszp]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

erynnar wrote...

But don't tell me a game that was developed in 18 months vs 4 yeas is a better game. It isn't, and couldn't be, by any stretch of anyone's imagination (even if it's flexible as taffy on a taffy puller). There's suspension of disbelief, and hanging disbelief by the neck until dead.

So its impossible for you to believe that anyone could possibly have enjoyed DA2 more than DAO? That the entire world is 100% unified on the reverse? I find that a bigger stretch personally.

Yeah that right. I come to bump into some people and talk about DA series (online and sometimes even offline). There are people out there you know ? Some of them think that DAO is far to complex for them. Some of them think that that fast moves and exploding bodies are cool. Some of them can't handle conversations so they think that good/bad/joke style is good. But they complain that they have 3-button mouse and they cannot use it to do conversations in this game.

So there are people that:
1. enjoy true, good RPG and probably hate DA II. They can even have some problems with DAO
2. have just low standards so they like both games
3. have high expectations and they just hate everything
4. are just stupid so DA II is perfect for  them with illusion of choice and 3 conversation options
5. like anime/manga and they like that big swords, fast moves, fatality, exploding bodies and stuff
6. see DA II as hack & slash so they dont like it
7. think - DAO is boring
etc...

Simple thing. I was talking to some folk who call himself "RPG veteran". He tried to convince me that DA II is superior game to everything that BW done to this day.

ME: so i talk about that illusion of choice in DA II where most of choices you make are unimportand vs witcher where you shape outcome of the game
HE: as answer he tell me that for example Witcher is ****ty game with all choices because he made bad one and cannot load previous save because it happened 5-6 hours ago or more

ME: so i talk about button-smashing-spell-spamming combat system in DA II where tactical approach is waste of time
HE: said that witcher 2 tactical combat was too complex and too hard for him. Also that in DAO fights was so hard that he never finished the game

ME: so i talked again about dialogues and said that in DA II there are very limited options
HE: said that it's good because he dont have to think, he want be bad so he select bottom options...

We talk about other things but outcome was one - he still think what he think and i think what i think. For him I'm probably some kind of no-life or geek who speed days to perfect my skills so i can win a fight in a game. For me he is just an idiot who call himself RPG veteran but he dont want anything what RPG is about.
Did i mentioned that he is Diablo II fan ?

[erynnar]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

erynnar wrote...

But don't tell me a game that was developed in 18 months vs 4 yeas is a better game. It isn't, and couldn't be, by any stretch of anyone's imagination (even if it's flexible as taffy on a taffy puller). There's suspension of disbelief, and hanging disbelief by the neck until dead.

So its impossible for you to believe that anyone could possibly have enjoyed DA2 more than DAO? That the entire world is 100% unified on the reverse? I find that a bigger stretch personally.

I never said it was about someone's enjoyment for DA2 over DAO. I said quality wise it isn't possible for DA2 to be a better game than DAO. Enjoyment is opinion, developement time with details and game play and story is fact. So, don't put words into my mouth Jack, that isn't becoming of you.  Of course people can and do enjoy it better than DAO. Nothing wrong with that. But the quality of a game developed in a shorter amount of time and rushed out the door versus one that had the time it needed and deserved is going to be better quality.

My apologies if that wasn't clear, but don't think you can speak for me. You have read my posts before, I don't try and tell people how to think, nor belittle them for their love of the game.

[Cutlass Jack]

erynnar wrote...

I never said it was about someone's enjoyment for DA2 over DAO. I said quality wise it isn't possible for DA2 to be a better game than DAO. Enjoyment is opinion, developement time with details and game play and story is fact. So, don't put words into my mouth Jack, that isn't becoming of you.  Of course people can and do enjoy it better than DAO. Nothing wrong with that. But the quality of a game developed in a shorter amount of time and rushed out the door versus one that had the time it needed and deserved is going to be better quality.

My apologies if that wasn't clear, but don't think you can speak for me. You have read my posts before, I don't try and tell people how to think, nor belittle them for their love of the game.

If development time equals quality Duke Nukem Forever is the finest game ever made.

Silliness aside, I think everyone is operating on 100% opinion here. I do apologize if you honestly felt I was somehow putting words in your mouth, but to me 'better' is a word that implies opinion. And nothing wrong with having one.

[AquaLung99]

  I just wanted to say I think the game is lot funner with the latest patch. Thank you for, in my opinion, saving what was actually quite a good game.



-A long-time BioWare fanboy

[erynnar]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

erynnar wrote...

I never said it was about someone's enjoyment for DA2 over DAO. I said quality wise it isn't possible for DA2 to be a better game than DAO. Enjoyment is opinion, developement time with details and game play and story is fact. So, don't put words into my mouth Jack, that isn't becoming of you.  Of course people can and do enjoy it better than DAO. Nothing wrong with that. But the quality of a game developed in a shorter amount of time and rushed out the door versus one that had the time it needed and deserved is going to be better quality.

My apologies if that wasn't clear, but don't think you can speak for me. You have read my posts before, I don't try and tell people how to think, nor belittle them for their love of the game.

If development time equals quality Duke Nukem Forever is the finest game ever made.


Silliness aside, I think everyone is operating on 100% opinion here. I do apologize if you honestly felt I was somehow putting words in your mouth, but to me 'better' is a word that implies opinion. And nothing wrong with having one.

ROFL! Well how can I argue with a good lookng pirate like yourself? Sorry, I had to visit the melodramatic monster-in-law, I may be a little techy.

SNORT! How Duke F'em can take five years deve time I'll never know. I think
they make it in three months then kiss their wives, telling them they
are going to work, and hit the t***y bars for the next few years.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] And as Duck Wretch' em proves, there are exceptions to every rule.

Edited to say, In DAO's case, I point to the books, the item descriptions, the little details which DA2 lacked and would have helped it immensely (aside from other recycled things?). ROFL!

Modifié par erynnar, 21 juin 2011 - 06:54 .

[Cutlass Jack]

I think they spent 15 years on it. Scary! So are mother in laws...um, don't tell mine that.

[erynnar]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I think they spent 15 years on it. Scary! So are mother in laws...um, don't tell mine that.

ROFL! Your secret is safe with me!

[lobi]

erynnar wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...
I think they spent 15 years on it. Scary! So are mother in laws...um, don't tell mine that.

ROFL! Your secret is safe with me!

Me too! (Twitters furiously)

[Fidget6]

It's a fantastic game. If it didn't have Dragon Age in the title people could have seen it for the masterpiece it was. Shame really.

[JustAnotherZero]

If they'd marketed DAII as the spiritual successor to Jade Empire then maybe they would've inspired less outrage... But then they would've lost most of their fanbase. Jade Empire is practically a forgotten masterpiece. Sure it was popular... For what? A year or two? Then people kinda  ignored it's existence.

We've been done this road before with Bioware. Their only one action rpg made a good impression on a small scale, attracting a new audience... But... The keyword here is small scale. Jade Empire was never a total success. It did not attract a loyal following large enough to warrant further attention... The game now languishes in obscurity.

DAII has a loyal but very small following. It too will end up in obscurity as it becomes overshadowed by better rpgs.

Modifié par JustAnotherZero, 21 juin 2011 - 08:21 .

[GodWood]

IMO Jade Empire was legions ahead of DA2.
The only reason why it wasn't more successful was because it was released on the Xbox when the Xbox-360 was just around the corner.

Modifié par GodWood, 21 juin 2011 - 08:59 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

GodWood wrote...

IMO Jade Empire was legions ahead of DA2.
The only reason why it wasn't more successful was because it was released on the Xbox when the Xbox-360 was just around the corner.

This ^^

[themonty72]

I liked Da2 its one of the best games I have played but not the best. Some players hate it, some players pick, pluck, and bash and thrash everything bad about it, but I enjoyed it. Act 3 could have done way better though.

Modifié par themonty72, 21 juin 2011 - 09:29 .

[Dariuszp]

Fidget6 wrote...

It's a fantastic game. If it didn't have Dragon Age in the title people could have seen it for the masterpiece it was. Shame really.

Fantastic for what ? RPG without dialogues. If you want act like and idiot - middle answer. If you want to be good - top answer. If you want to be bad. Bottom answer.
- RPG without choices - say YES, you have quest, say NO, you still have quest but there will be aditional line from NPC like "you will do it anyway" or "if will be around - do it". Always same stupid outcome. Even at the end.
- RPG without locations. 10 of them.
- RPG without good graphic - this one could save game a little but sorry - locations are poor made and there is only few of them
- RPG with boring quests - can you point me to one quest when you didn't fight waves of monsters ? Go, kill, fetch, return. And sometimes you just go, kill and fetch.
- RPG in fantasy world where "epic (long and boring) fight with Dragon" give you just junk. Should not dragons carry some kind of tresury ? Even stupid dogs drop coin...
- RPG with small static world when noone move around, talk, nothing, day/night cycle is just a cheap imitation of other games
- RPG with simple, japanese-anime-like button smashing combat with oversized swords
- RPG that DONT EVEN KEEP THEIR RULES. Blood mages everywhere, demons everywhere, mages teleport a loot when they should not, darkspawn blood taint some fold at the beginning but everyone else are fine - f*** that they are covered in that blood, dragons popular like rabbits. Your character is blood mage and they give a sh** about it. Bunch of people kill each other next to NPC and he just standing in flames waiting for god know what...
- Copy/paste locations (specialy dungeons when everything around corner is just the same).

Did I miss something ? WITHOUT comparing this game to DAO - it's avarage or less (5-6/10). When compare to DAO it's poor - (3-4/10). Tell me what I miss if you think that DA II is masterpeace in any way...

[turian councilor Knockout]

themonty72 wrote...

I liked Da2 its one of the best games I have played but not the best. Some players hate it, some players pick everything bad about it, but I enjoyed it. Act 3 could have done way better though.

Some players hated DA 2 BECAUSE they took everything that was good with origins and then begun flirting with a new kinds of players while they doesn't give a **** about old players that wanted a deep rpg game, i for one wants rpg's that are hard to get into and much more and important choices, better story and most important enemy and ally AI that is great and not just plain stupid, bioware even released patch 1.0.3 to make DA 2 more fun when it in truth doesn't even fix 10 % of the actual problems with the game.

[themonty72]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

themonty72 wrote...

I liked Da2 its one of the best games I have played but not the best. Some players hate it, some players pick everything bad about it, but I enjoyed it. Act 3 could have done way better though.

Some players hated DA 2 BECAUSE they took everything that was good with origins and then begun flirting with a new kinds of players while they doesn't give a **** about old players that wanted a deep rpg game, i for one wants rpg's that are hard to get into and much more and important choices, better story and most important enemy and ally AI that is great and not just plain stupid, bioware even released patch 1.0.3 to make DA 2 more fun when it in truth doesn't even fix 10 % of the actual problems with the game.

  
  I agree they did take away things that was good in Origins. I admit they did begin flirting with new players and the game went commercial as some these bulls@@t artists do. Somewhat Da2 remind me a little of Gta 4 when they took away everything that made the game special. I dont think Da2 is a bad game just  not up to par with Dao

Modifié par themonty72, 21 juin 2011 - 09:52 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

themonty72 wrote...

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

themonty72 wrote...

I liked Da2 its one of the best games I have played but not the best. Some players hate it, some players pick everything bad about it, but I enjoyed it. Act 3 could have done way better though.

Some players hated DA 2 BECAUSE they took everything that was good with origins and then begun flirting with a new kinds of players while they doesn't give a **** about old players that wanted a deep rpg game, i for one wants rpg's that are hard to get into and much more and important choices, better story and most important enemy and ally AI that is great and not just plain stupid, bioware even released patch 1.0.3 to make DA 2 more fun when it in truth doesn't even fix 10 % of the actual problems with the game.

  
  I agree they did take away things that was good in Origins. I admit they did begin flirting with new players and the game went commercial as some these bulls@@t artists do. Somewhat Da2 remind me a little of Gta 4 when they took away everything that made the game special. I dont think Da2 is a bad game just  not up to par with Dao

OK, i respect your point of course and i hope that don't rush DA 3 but i am uncertain.

[Dariuszp]

DA II was just to fill pocket a little. Just for money. Unique characters ? Bi/gay bunch of companions that cannot walk and talk at the same time. They remove ability to change equipment on your companion just to sell you DLC with new skins for them. It's just lame.

[elearon1]

Dariuszp wrote...

Blah blah blah, a lot of the same ole crap ... 

Sorry, boyo, but I've been playing crpgs as long as they've been coming out and I actually liked DA2 better.  I liked the personal focus as opposed to the epic story in DA:O; I liked the character interaction more; I liked the sense of moving through my character's life better; so on and so forth ... blah blah, stuff you won't listen to.  

DA:O was a good game, but it never had the "I need to restart this and play it again" feel that DA2 did for me.  I did replay all the Origins, but outside of that there just wasn't enough variation.  In DA2 you can see some real differences in the peripheral plot based on your decisions and character attitude.  (admittedly the central stories - yes, there were 3, not 1 - really could have benefited from reacting to your choices more, but the same could be said for Origins ... where the only real differences were, "did you have the god baby" and "who fought with you at the end") 

I'm sorry you couldn't enjoy the game - sucks to have spent the money on it and got a lemon ... but think how all those people who bought Duke Nukem feel right now.  Hopefully the third game will hit a middle ground where fans of both can enjoy it.

[Dariuszp]

Sorry, boyo, but I've been playing crpgs as long as they've been coming out and I actually liked DA2 better.

Like I said before. Some people just have low standards so same title will be good for one and terrible for other person.

I liked the personal focus as opposed to the epic story in DA:O

Actuali I did like that part. I dont need to save world 100 times in one year so yeah. I didn't say that this game is terrible in every aspect. I did rate it in my humble opinion as 5-6. If it would be bad then i would give it 0-1
Also I did like some companions - Aveline is example here. Well made. Still everything else sucks. Idea to carry around sister/brother wasn't bad but they waste potential here.

I liked the character interaction more

What character interaction. I ask Anders something and then he want sex with my character. I ask someone else about something and they want to sex with my character. They are too stupid to walk and talk. Why the hell i have quest "Talk to X" then X is right beside me ? I must teleport to some place to talk...
It was kinda refreshing to see that characters interact with each other but it was just some small unimportand cutscenes.
You just talk, do one quest for them (killing waves of monster mostly) they ask you to have sex with them and then you agree or not... and this scenerio was apply to every fu**** character.
How the hell Hawk end up taking to his party ******/bi and other kind of perverts ? Wasn't there a single person who dont want main cahracter di** in his as* ?

I did replay all the Origins, but outside of that there just wasn't enough variation

Like DA II have some variations. 10 locations for max 30h. Choices ? What choices. Is there were any that have real impact on rest of the game ? You talk good, bad or dump. End up always the same. Even options responsible for this are always in the same place.

yes, there were 3, not 1

Quantity over quality. I liked Qunari part a little. Still i dislike how they redesign them. Hors ? WTF ? They grow them in few months since DAO or what ?

but think how all those people who bought Duke Nukem feel right now

I dont have problem with money. I bought this game for half a price and they throw me ME2 for free with some DLC. I canceled pre-order and got a reward for that on holiday. Same thing with DNF. I played the demo and cancel my order. Still game is almost like DN3D. Even graphic look old

I just point that nothing in this game is "materpeace" like someone say before me. When I first saw bandits pop up from nowhere i was thinking that this is a glitch or something. They were just drop from 1-2m near me. And they do it all the fu**** time. What the hell ? I think that BW should start playing their games after they make them.

It's just avarage RPG. And im sad because it is not something I expect from BW. Still they start making that crap after joining EA. Don't know if it's them or EA who pull the strings in DA series. I hope it's EA  because if it's BW then Witcher and Drakensang are only games i can count on.

Modifié par Dariuszp, 21 juin 2011 - 12:13 .

[David Falkayn]

I like to call DA2 a "coulda...woulda...shoulda..." game. It's a decent game, that with just a bit more time and effort could have...would have...and should have been a great game. The friend-rival polarity was one of the things I liked most about the game. I disliked having to suck-up to companions in DAO in order to gain "approval"--I think it can take away somewhat from characterization. Rivals who respect each other and other variations on that theme are welcome additions.

I'm not fond of the combat system in DA2--the system in DAO was, IMO, much more superior. In DAO, there are few things better than watching as your well planned ambush unfolds--something you really can't do in DA2. Also, I prefer the customization options of DAO. I'm not fond of the armor limitations for companions, and there are a host of other minor details that in and of themselves do not necessarily pull a game down, but put them all together and they do have an effect.

On the whole, I'd have to agree with those who gave this game a 7 to 7.5 out of 10. It's not a bad game...but it could have...would have...and should have been a great game. I think this game is destined to be one of those "If only..." games--"If only Bioware had taken another 6 to 12 months...if Bioware had done this...If only Bioware had done that."

Hopefully, Bioware will learn from its mistakes here...apply the good points from DA2, DAO and other games and make DA3 into the classic game we all wanted this game to be.