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[Tenauri]

I haven't beaten the game yet, so I can't comment on the ending everyone seems so disappointed with, but I have finished both Grissom Academy and the date with Jack on the Citadel. Am I disappointed there's so little content? Yes, of course. But I still think what we had was very well done.

I've seen a few people complaining about how Jack seems to be 'trying to get you to break up with her.' As I see it...that makes perfect sense. Jack does not have any confidence at all when it comes to a committed relationship. She spends the majority of ME2 fighting against it, and when she finally starts to break down, she admits she's terrified that now you or her are going to get killed, or bored, or something, and it'll suck. She wants out, because being alone is easier to deal with than loss. You can tell she's genuinely relieved when you tell her "you're not getting rid of me that easily." Even if it is a mistake, even if someone does get killed, and it really sucks, it will have been worth it.

[Premier Bromanov]

Tenauri wrote...

I haven't beaten the game yet, so I can't comment on the ending everyone seems so disappointed with, but I have finished both Grissom Academy and the date with Jack on the Citadel. Am I disappointed there's so little content? Yes, of course. But I still think what we had was very well done.

I've seen a few people complaining about how Jack seems to be 'trying to get you to break up with her.' As I see it...that makes perfect sense. Jack does not have any confidence at all when it comes to a committed relationship. She spends the majority of ME2 fighting against it, and when she finally starts to break down, she admits she's terrified that now you or her are going to get killed, or bored, or something, and it'll suck. She wants out, because being alone is easier to deal with than loss. You can tell she's genuinely relieved when you tell her "you're not getting rid of me that easily." Even if it is a mistake, even if someone does get killed, and it really sucks, it will have been worth it.

Don't you think this was covered in ME2, though?  She's already experienced the fear and trembling that comes with a relationship with Shepard.  Of course she should still worry about him, but why would she again be so timid and uncertain about Shepard's fate, when she knows that not only is he a guy she can love, but he's a tough son-of-a-****?  After the events of ME2, wouldn't it make more sense for her to stick with him, rather than run away from him again?

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 11 mars 2012 - 12:21 .

[Premier Bromanov]

Militarized wrote...

Hope you were talking to someone important about it Premier haha jking.

I thought of something while browsing the forum... there seems to be an obvious air of dissatisfaction among the ME2 LI's... I am unaware of DLC plans for Mass Effect 3. Did they say there would be any? If so.. I can imagine all the ME2 LI's being added to with DLC just to make us fork over to see what hapens with our preferred LI for our shepard.

What do you mean?  I don't get it, sorry :happy:

And do you really think they would bring all the VAs for the LIs for DLC?  In ME2 DLC, any squadmate dialogue that wasn't spoken by the squadmate directly involved in the DLC had their dialogue recycled.  That, or they had no dialogue at all.

[Militarized]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Militarized wrote...

Hope you were talking to someone important about it Premier haha jking.

I thought of something while browsing the forum... there seems to be an obvious air of dissatisfaction among the ME2 LI's... I am unaware of DLC plans for Mass Effect 3. Did they say there would be any? If so.. I can imagine all the ME2 LI's being added to with DLC just to make us fork over to see what hapens with our preferred LI for our shepard.

What do you mean?  I don't get it, sorry :happy:

And do you really think they would bring all the VAs for the LIs for DLC?  In ME2 DLC, any squadmate dialogue that wasn't spoken by the squadmate directly involved in the DLC had their dialogue recycled.  That, or they had no dialogue at all.

You said you were talking to someone about it, was hoping it was someone of some importance in Bioware is what I meant haha. 

Honestly... I could see them having cut content out of the main game and it's just been worked on more by the DLC teams... unlocking sidequests to do with your LI and more interaction. They spent money on that dumb reporter, so why not do a little more VA. 

Courtney said some of the lines in ME3 made her cry but I didn't see any that would illicit that response... did you?

Also.. take it with a grain of salt, I'm just throwing stuff against the wall.  

Modifié par Militarized, 11 mars 2012 - 12:32 .

[Premier Bromanov]

Militarized wrote...

Courtney said some of the lines in ME3 made her cry but I didn't see any that would illicit that response... did you?

Also.. take it with a grain of salt, I'm just throwing stuff against the wall.  

I thought those lines were the recordings of Jack that you hear if you do the Grissom Academy mission too late.  Considering Jack's past, I can't think of a more tragic fate than that, so they'd sure make me cry.

EDIT: I could very well be wrong, though.  There does seem to be a LOT of missing Jack material, considering her new career and her new look.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 11 mars 2012 - 12:37 .

[Premier Bromanov]

One more thing to add, for now: In ME2, Jack destroyed four YMIR mechs with a single punch. In ME3, she can't handle a single ATLAS mech? Did this irritate anyone else?

[jackncoke28]

 I figured id add to this Mass Effect "ending" therapy session. Seems like the disapointment has ignited a creative spark in many of us , here gose my contribution.

"what happened... Am I Dead?"
"Not Yet"
"Wh- who are you"
'Do you want to die?"
"No"
"Then open your eyes"

Takes him awhile to realize his eys have been open, the light slowly fades in.
"Shepard!"
"commander!"
He hears the voices. The memories of the past couple of days begin to flood his mind. The Reapers, the citadel, Earth.
"oh my God, John"
"J-Jack?"
"He's over here! He's Alive!"
"N-not so loud, I kinda got a headache"
"You look like **** you know that" She flashes him a smile, a beautiful smile that he thought he'd never see again.
"I love you too"
The light starts to fade again, and so do the voices.
"John! John! ****, where's the ****ing medigel damnit! I am not losing you,  you are not dying on me you ****ing hear me!"

[Premier Bromanov]

Sad stuff, jackncoke. We're looking for the happy stuff!

[Ymladdych]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

I know a lot of people are dissatisfied with the Jack "romance" in ME3, if you can call it that.  I was asked why I think Jackolytes are dissatisfied, and I explained that it's probably for two reasons. 

*snip*

I almost canceled my pre-order based solely off the non-existent ME2 LI .bik files for the flashback scene.  It's a very small, but very telling indicator about the devs' mindsets, and here's what I gleaned from that little bit of info:  players with an ME2 LI aren't important enough to get a 2 second cinematic so they can see their Shepard actually thinking about someone important to him/her at the end, rather than someone important to Bioware.  (Liara.  Yet again.)  Bugs happen and they can get patched - no biggy - but the missing .bik files weren't a bug, they were a conscious decision.  That's what cheeses me off.

And truthfully, I'm disgusted with the universal marginalization of all the ME2 characters, LI or not.

Specific to Jack, however, I'm fairly happy with her cameo in comparison to other ME2 romances.

I mean, have you watched Miranda's scenes?  Egads!  And she was the most popular!  Jacob romancers got totally screwed in the rudest way possible.  Thane romancers...hmmm...I'm a little less sympathetic because he *was* already terminal, but when all the ME2 characters have been so disrespectfully written out, I see him as just another one biting the dust.

Considering Jack's poor reception in ME2 (only Jacob was less popular), she got more attention than a lot of older Jackolytes thought she would.  (Certainly more than I thought she would.)  That's not to say that I wasn't hoping for more scenes between her and Shepard, but I'm not completely blind to the realities of prioritization and resource allocation, either.

As for her "no strings" line - I read it as acceptance.  Acceptance of who Shepard is, and why he can't promise to always be by her side.  You could even see it as a subtle plea for mutual acceptance because she's got bigger obligations of her own now, too.

Then again, one of the reasons I was originally drawn to her romance, and repelled by others, was the fact that Shepard didn't have to feed her hollow promises to entice her into a relationship.  In fact, Jack fishes for reassurance that things will 100% work out, and Shepard pretty much tells her in different ways (depending on dialogue choices), "I realize you're wary because people have disappointed you in the past, but I can't guarantee anything.  You either want to take a chance on us knowing that truth, or you don't."

So, to me, the "no strings" line is her way of re-affirming, "I get it now.  No pressure.  I love you, but I won't try to change you.  And don't try to change me!"  If anything, it makes her more of a kindred spirit for my Shepard.

In contrast to the Liara romance in LOTSB, where she makes him promise to always come back to her...complete with a white picket fence and lots of blue babies.  Honestly, had my personal Shepard been in a relationship with Liara, that scene would've broken him into a sweat while thinking, "NOW?!  I'm going for a suicide run and she's doing this to me NOW?!  Are you freakin' kidding me?!!  Like I need this..." 

So, anyway...that's my perspective on it.

[Militarized]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

I thought those lines were the recordings of Jack that you hear if you do the Grissom Academy mission too late.  Considering Jack's past, I can't think of a more tragic fate than that, so they'd sure make me cry.

EDIT: I could very well be wrong, though.  There does seem to be a LOT of missing Jack material, considering her new career and her new look.

I... actually hadn't seen those lines yet. I assumed she was a wordless boss with a datapad like Morinth. 


Ugh that sounds depressing... I'll look it up on youtube. 

*edit* hrm.. don't seem to be any videos of it unless my google-fu is weak. 

Modifié par Militarized, 11 mars 2012 - 01:05 .

[jackncoke28]

he didnt die though, he just passed out lol

[Ensorcelled Cat]

I played a femShep, therefore was blocked from getting past Jack's post-loyalty quest convo. But seeing her at Grissom was still *awesome*. So overprotective!

I wish I'd gotten to give her crap about it, but yet, kinda perfect....

[Premier Bromanov]

Militarized wrote...

Premier Bromanov wrote...

I thought those lines were the recordings of Jack that you hear if you do the Grissom Academy mission too late.  Considering Jack's past, I can't think of a more tragic fate than that, so they'd sure make me cry.

EDIT: I could very well be wrong, though.  There does seem to be a LOT of missing Jack material, considering her new career and her new look.

I... actually hadn't seen those lines yet. I assumed she was a wordless boss with a datapad like Morinth. 


Ugh that sounds depressing... I'll look it up on youtube. 

*edit* hrm.. don't seem to be any videos of it unless my google-fu is weak. 

It was stated a few pages back.  Spoiler text, highlight to read:

You hear a recording of her screaming "I WILL DESTROY YOU!" as the Cerberus surgeons operate on her to Husk-ify her in to a Phantom.  Then, you fight her Phantom form on the Grissom Academy mission.  She says it again, so you know it's her, even though it's muffled like the way Phantoms speak.

So, yeah.  There's no fate worse than that, for Jack, to become a tool of Cerberus once again.

[Premier Bromanov]

Ensorcelled Cat wrote...

I played a femShep, therefore was blocked from getting past Jack's post-loyalty quest convo. But seeing her at Grissom was still *awesome*. So overprotective!

I wish I'd gotten to give her crap about it, but yet, kinda perfect....

You wish you'd gotten to give her crap about what, exactly?

And yeah, seeing Jack so protective of her students was heart-warming.  I don't know if it's right to call it motherly behavior, but it's definitely an indication that Jack is quite capable of feelings of caring and empathy.

[Premier Bromanov]

Ymladdych wrote...

As for her "no strings" line - I read it as acceptance.  Acceptance of who Shepard is, and why he can't promise to always be by her side.  You could even see it as a subtle plea for mutual acceptance because she's got bigger obligations of her own now, too.

Then again, one of the reasons I was originally drawn to her romance, and repelled by others, was the fact that Shepard didn't have to feed her hollow promises to entice her into a relationship.  In fact, Jack fishes for reassurance that things will 100% work out, and Shepard pretty much tells her in different ways (depending on dialogue choices), "I realize you're wary because people have disappointed you in the past, but I can't guarantee anything.  You either want to take a chance on us knowing that truth, or you don't."

So, to me, the "no strings" line is her way of re-affirming, "I get it now.  No pressure.  I love you, but I won't try to change you.  And don't try to change me!"  If anything, it makes her more of a kindred spirit for my Shepard.

So you don't think that Jack would ever be willing to enter in to a formal relationship with Shepard, even if he were to survive ME3 and dispose of the Reaper threat?  She's just not the LI you're looking for if you're in to stuff like that, is what you're saying?

[Ensorcelled Cat]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Ensorcelled Cat wrote...

I played a femShep, therefore was blocked from getting past Jack's post-loyalty quest convo. But seeing her at Grissom was still *awesome*. So overprotective!

I wish I'd gotten to give her crap about it, but yet, kinda perfect....

You wish you'd gotten to give her crap about what, exactly? <snippers>

Jack loves to pretend not to care. AT ALL. I'd love to have been given a chance to kid her about being so very, very overprotective of her students...And given my Shep's personality, it would've been all in fun.

But given your later point...pretty sure we agree....

Edit: Jack is a great character, and it was nice to see her expand in this way, but still be utterly true to herself.

Modifié par Ensorcelled Cat, 11 mars 2012 - 01:34 .

[Premier Bromanov]

Ensorcelled Cat wrote...

Jack loves to pretend not to care. AT ALL. I'd love to have been given a chance to kid her about being so very, very overprotective of her students...And given my Shep's personality, it would've been all in fun.

But given your later point...pretty sure we agree....

Edit: Jack is a great character, and it was nice to see her expand in this way, but still be utterly true to herself.

Yes, I totally agree with you, then.  She cares about her students, and what's also telling, is that her students care about her.  She even put her life on the line for one of them.  Do you think she would have done that for anyone before meeting Shepard?  Heck no.

It's cool, I just didn't know what you wanted to give her crap about.  :happy:

[Ensorcelled Cat]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Yes, I totally agree with you, then.  She cares about her students, and what's also telling, is that her students care about her.  She even put her life on the line for one of them.  Do you think she would have done that for anyone before meeting Shepard?  Heck no.

It's cool, I just didn't know what you wanted to give her crap about.  :happy:

Heh. It's true. I could've been a troll.

But no, I'm fond of Jack, despite there not being a real friendship path for her in ME2 as a femShep. I was totally gleeful upon meeting with her again, and just wanted to tease her a bit. "Wait. Shouldn't you be using your students as rockets for vandalism?!"

[StefanBW]

I haven't check in this thread forever and I just finished ME3. Not happy. The moments with Jack were awesome but they were too damn little...

The ending...  I still can't believe what I saw.

[Premier Bromanov]

stefanbw wrote...

I haven't check in this thread forever and I just finished ME3. Not happy. The moments with Jack were awesome but they were too damn little...

The ending...  I still can't believe what I saw.

Welcome back.  You going to be staying?  I'm yorkj86, if you remember me.

And yeah, you and a lot of people feel the same way about both of those things.  All that change for Jack, and only minimal material.

[StefanBW]

Hey york, of course I remember you. ^^ Sure I'll stay on these boards, the disappointment will wear off... and maybe I can forget about all of it by replaying ME2 hehe.

[Ymladdych]

Premier Bromanov wrote...
So you don't think that Jack would ever be willing to enter in to a formal relationship with Shepard, even if he were to survive ME3 and dispose of the Reaper threat?  She's just not the LI you're looking for if you're in to stuff like that, is what you're saying?

No, I'm not saying any of that.

What I *am* saying, is that Jack's "no strings" line doesn't bother me, because I see it as her accepting Shepard as he is, without putting conditions on him or forcing him to choose between her and what he feels he needs to do.  (And vice versa, with her and her students.)

Regardless of how things turn out after the war, neither of them is willing to walk away from their current obligations, not even for each other.  We're free to headcannon our Shepards and Jack in a lot of different ways, but putting a LI's needs before the needs of the galaxy/her students is not one of them.

And my point about the Liara romance wasn't meant as "Jack doesn't want a white picket fence," it was meant as, "Regardless of what anyone wants, a battle-hardened warrior like Shepard would know he was feeding Liara a line to placate her, because he will always put the galaxy first.  I prefer Shepard's relationship with Jack, because he's honest with her about their odds, and she accepts that."  Case in point:  one of the biggest laments from Liara fans is, "Bioware turned my Shepard into a liar!  I promised Liara lots of blue children!"  

I'm not saying that Jack doesn't want more long-term, or that Shepard doesn't want more long-term...I just see it as them approaching the relationship honestly.  One or both of them may die; they may be different people after the war; stuff happens.

And rather than viewing her "no strings" line as a sign of her hesitancy for intimacy, I choose to see it as a tremendous indication of her growth and maturity.  It shows her new confidence, and a willingness to live and love even in the face of uncertainty.

[Premier Bromanov]

@stefanbw,

Glad to hear that you like the little material that the Jackolytes got. What did you think of the really short conversation between Jack and Shepard before the final mission? Do you think even Ms. Taylor saved that?

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 11 mars 2012 - 02:23 .

[K0M154R]

Militarized wrote...

Hope you were talking to someone important about it Premier haha jking.

I thought of something while browsing the forum... there seems to be an obvious air of dissatisfaction among the ME2 LI's... I am unaware of DLC plans for Mass Effect 3. Did they say there would be any? If so.. I can imagine all the ME2 LI's being added to with DLC just to make us fork over to see what hapens with our preferred LI for our shepard.

Yea, ME2 Li's got BONED. Seriously boned. Reaper boned.

So far as I've seen, the DLC's just a host of rumors. Everyone seems pretty secure that Omega is the next DLC, but the rest is skepticism. Have you seen that screen shot of a forum post by "an anonymous low level Bioware employee" where he outlines several in the tube DLC's? One being entirely Li oriented. Seems too good to be true to me, not that it isn't welcome!  However, Producer Mike Gamble said this in his Twitter feed. And I quote:

"Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever." March 8th.

If only we knew what he meant.

Also, is there ANY reason to remain loyal to your Li? I mean they kinda made a big deal about the cheating thing before hand and how it would have consequences. Did it even have an impact??

Modifié par K0M154R, 11 mars 2012 - 02:32 .

[Premier Bromanov]

Ymladdych wrote...

No, I'm not saying any of that.

What I *am* saying, is that Jack's "no strings" line doesn't bother me, because I see it as her accepting Shepard as he is, without putting conditions on him or forcing him to choose between her and what he feels he needs to do.  (And vice versa, with her and her students.)

Regardless of how things turn out after the war, neither of them is willing to walk away from their current obligations, not even for each other.  We're free to headcannon our Shepards and Jack in a lot of different ways, but putting a LI's needs before the needs of the galaxy/her students is not one of them.

And my point about the Liara romance wasn't meant as "Jack doesn't want a white picket fence," it was meant as, "Regardless of what anyone wants, a battle-hardened warrior like Shepard would know he was feeding Liara a line to placate her, because he will always put the galaxy first.  I prefer Shepard's relationship with Jack, because he's honest with her about their odds, and she accepts that."  Case in point:  one of the biggest laments from Liara fans is, "Bioware turned my Shepard into a liar!  I promised Liara lots of blue children!"  

I'm not saying that Jack doesn't want more long-term, or that Shepard doesn't want more long-term...I just see it as them approaching the relationship honestly.  One or both of them may die; they may be different people after the war; stuff happens.

And rather than viewing her "no strings" line as a sign of her hesitancy for intimacy, I choose to see it as a tremendous indication of her growth and maturity.  It shows her new confidence, and a willingness to live and love even in the face of uncertainty.

Okay, that's fair enough.  What do you think she meant by "But if we get out of this alive..."?  What do you think she's looking forward to?