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[Rip The Reaper]

Jack romance in me3 remindes me of Conrad. No matter what, in me2 the game thinks a chose renagade when talking to Conrad in me1 ("stuck a gun in his face"). But I Didn't.

Now with Jack, it's like the game thinks I chose the renagade sex option with Jack when I didn't. They made the paragon relationship with Jack in me2 more than just a fling, so why is it only that in me3?

[10K]

Premier Bromanov wrote...


  As for changing her hairstyle because people dislike her shaved head...really?  It's such a superficial reason to dislike her. The designers said they gave her longer hair because it's supposed to show that she's maturing. 

I agree with you, it is a superfical reason for someone to dislike Jack because of the way she look. But think about it, out of all the ME2 characters she was the only one to get a complete makeover. A lot of Jack hate that stemmed from these forums was about how she needed some hair to make her look better or she needed to cover up her body. And that was the majority of what bioware saw. So they may claim she recieved this new look because of her maturation, but truly I can't help but to think they were just listening to the majority and not true Jack fans. Don't get me wrong I love Jack's new look but the only reason I see bioware giving her this look is to make her character appeal to a greater audience.  

Modifié par mosesarose, 13 mars 2012 - 06:23 .

[Nightfable]

mosesarose wrote...

Don't get me wrong I love Jack's new look but the only reason I see bioware giving her this look is to make her character appeal to a greater audience.  

Yep, so true.

[StefanBW]

I like Jack's new look, but I thought her shaved head looked awesome. Such a shame that it only comes down to Grissom Academy and a short conversation in the club and ending in the third game - they could have done a lot more with her than that, for any of the LI's for that matter.

I'm reinstalling ME2, can't wait to kick some ass with Jack & Grunt. Oh and at least I will get a good ending when I'm done with that.

[fainmaca]

I'll be honest, I also noticed that Jack was the only ME2-exclusive NPC to receive a major appearance overhaul, and I found it to be a little insulting to the character. Look at what they changed/took away: Her coarse, 'keep-away-from-me' attitude, her shaved head, her coarse language, her choice of attire. Hell, they've even changed her tattoos in subtle ways (the missing Palm tattoos are probably a design oversight rather than a conscious choice, TYTT). I get the feeling if they could have gotten away with it, she would have lost all of her inks in the redesign, too. as it is, the significant ones to her are now covered up, meaning the roadmap to her life is no longer obvious. its clear this was all done just to quell the complaints and make her more appealing to the general game fanbase.

They say that the new looks and attitude represent character growth, but all I see is character diminishment. She's no longer the complicated woman we all know from ME2, but has now become despairingly straightforward. Its a tragedy, a lesser story descended from greater origins.

P.S. I really, really hate having her watch her mouth. it's sickeningly silly, an attempt at some cute humor that does not fit jack's personality.

[MartialArtsMaster]

If someone rude becomes more polite, that IS character growth. Being an angry and aggressive teenager one's whole life does not really constitute good character development.

[Asnine112]

MartialArtsMaster wrote...

If someone rude becomes more polite, that IS character growth. Being an angry and aggressive teenager one's whole life does not really constitute good character development.

Granted, but I'm pretty sure she changes this way regardless of what you did in ME2, which is....disappointing.

If you went for the paragon romance/friendship in ME2 it certaintly makes sense though

[fainmaca]

Thats not the point I was making. My point is, the character has lost all complexity in the interests of being more appealing to the mainstream population of the fanbase, and she's the only one to receive that kind of overhaul. She's been dumbed down for the sake of drawing more people to her. What's more, having that kind of physical, social and mental overhaul take place in just six months is almost as bad as Gillian just 'getting over' autism. It was jack's compelxity that made her an attractive character for most of us, and that's been taken away.

[MartialArtsMaster]

She was complex BECAUSE she also had good tendencies. Without those she would just have been a one-trick pony, "F*** OFF" all the time. It's not like her aggression is completely gone, either; the students even refer to her as the psychotic biotic.

[Premier Bromanov]

stefanbw wrote...

I like Jack's new look, but I thought her shaved head looked awesome. Such a shame that it only comes down to Grissom Academy and a short conversation in the club and ending in the third game - they could have done a lot more with her than that, for any of the LI's for that matter.

I'm reinstalling ME2, can't wait to kick some ass with Jack & Grunt. Oh and at least I will get a good ending when I'm done with that.

Nice to know I'm not the only one thinking of reinstalling ME2.  I can play it the whole way through without having to worry about being disappointed by the endings.

[Rip The Reaper]

There should have been a romance scene. There were plenty of chances. And with that new theme from Sam Hulick!! It's amazing. Too bad it only come up with so few LIs...

[10K]

fainmaca wrote...


P.S. I really, really hate having her watch her mouth. it's sickeningly silly, an attempt at some cute humor that does not fit jack's personality.

You my sir are a hardcore Jack fan. I couldn't agree more. I loved her potty mouth and it was just crap how she would watch her mouth when speaking. I mean weren't those kids suppose to be seniors? kids in highschools these days speak much more dirtier than Jack ever do. And she can't say ****. Oh look I can't say **** either. 

Modifié par mosesarose, 13 mars 2012 - 08:49 .

[fainmaca]

@MartialArtsMaster
That's part of my point. She had good tendencies, but it took a determined Shepard to reveal them under all the stuff she piled up on top of it.she'd made herself unappealing on purpose to keep people away, but ultimately underneath she was a person who had a very strong belief of what's right, and she'd fight for it under the right circumstances (joining a team led by someone she beliveed in/who made an effort to earn her respect).

This is not a feeling I have only for Jack. I feel that most of the cast has been dumbed down in some way or another, sacrificing quality in exchange for cheap references to memes or just to cut down on content. Don't even get me started on Jacob's stereotyping. But with Jack it cuts especially deep because they shoehorned in the drastic visual change, with the implication that she needed it striking me as insulting.

I don't know, maybe I'm not expressing myself very clearly here.

Modifié par fainmaca, 13 mars 2012 - 08:51 .

[fainmaca]

mosesarose wrote...

fainmaca wrote...


P.S. I really, really hate having her watch her mouth. it's sickeningly silly, an attempt at some cute humor that does not fit jack's personality.

You my sir are a hardcore Jack fan. I couldn't agree more. I loved her potty mouth and it was just crap how she would watch her mouth when speaking. I mean weren't those kids suppose to be seniors? kids in highschools these days speak much more dirtier than Jack ever do. And she can't say ****. Oh look I can't say **** either. 

mostly that facet of her character felt like it had been inserted purely to have the jokey part where she gets cut off before ripping Joker a new one.

I'm not the kind of person who swears in my day-to-day language (maybe if I drop a fridge on my foot), but I realise the importance of this aspect of the character. It's not something that'd go away in such a short period of time, nor should it have.

[MartialArtsMaster]

fainmaca wrote...

@MartialArtsMaster
That's part of my point. She had good tendencies, but it took a determined Shepard to reveal them under all the stuff she piled up on top of it.she'd made herself unappealing on purpose to keep people away, but ultimately underneath she was a person who had a very strong belief of what's right, and she'd fight for it under the right circumstances (joining a team led by someone she beliveed in/who made an effort to earn her respect).

This is not a feeling I have only for Jack. I feel that most of the cast has been dumbed down in some way or another, sacrificing quality in exchange for cheap references to memes or just to cut down on content. Don't even get me started on Jacob's stereotyping. But with Jack it cuts especially deep because they shoehorned in the drastic visual change, with the implication that she needed it striking me as insulting.

I don't know, maybe I'm not expressing myself very clearly here.

That's possible, or maybe I'm not the one expressing myself clearly. I actually liked Mass Effect 3 very much, and I'm looking forward to any new DLC Bioware might release. I'm worried that Bioware's going to think the fans do nothing but complain about basically every decision Bioware made, and then not decide to release anything else Mass-Effect-related. Look how long it took for them to release The Old Republic after the fans endlessly complained about KOTORII, for example.

That's why in part I'm doing a bunch of posts defending some of their decisions so the Bioware staff reading these posts don't decide to simply write us all off completely.

[fainmaca]

I accept that, and I'm not just posting here to bash ME3. The gameplay is fantastic, and the design is incredible. I feel that the GAME is incredible, but the STORY told through it is lacklustre. i'm actually thinking of compiling a full and balanced review to voice my thoughts, but unsure anyone would particularly want to read it.

[CommanderWilliams]

Jack is Hot.
Nuff Said.

[Confused-Shepard]

So how many people here know about Jack's BAD END if you delay doing the Grissom Academy mission? I saw a YouTube video regarding it and was heartbreaking. Thankfully this I did not screw up. How do you feel about it? Nice Touch? Real consequences?

Regradless I enjoyed the entirety of the Academy Assault and loved the interuppts with Jack even if a bit cliche
"Must have been like Christmas for her" as Joker said. I enjoyed the Atlas part. How does it feel now Cerberus?

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 13 mars 2012 - 09:12 .

[Nightfable]

OH MY GOD!! -->

Poor Jack!!

[Rip The Reaper]

If you romance Jack do you not get the dialog she has for squadmates when meeting her? I can't seem to.

[GothamLord]

Nightfable wrote...

OH MY GOD!! -->

Poor Jack!!

*puts fingers in ears and closes eyes*

lalalala  not listening....cant see this lalalala 

[Premier Bromanov]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

So how many people here know about Jack's BAD END if you delay doing the Grissom Academy mission? I saw a YouTube video regarding it and was heartbreaking. Thankfully this I did not screw up. How do you feel about it? Nice Touch? Real consequences?

Regradless I enjoyed the entirety of the Academy Assault and loved the interuppts with Jack even if a bit cliche
"Must have been like Christmas for her" as Joker said. I enjoyed the Atlas part. How does it feel now Cerberus?

There's no worse fate for Jack than that.  It's that simple.  It makes her a tool of Cerberus once again, and a mindless one at that.  She says that she'd rather just die than have someone poke around in her brain to make her smile and nod.  Jack would rather die Jack, than someone who looks like Jack, but is someone else.  Yeah, I'm not going to watch any videos of that scene.  It's upsetting enough to know that this exists in-game. 

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 13 mars 2012 - 09:57 .

[Nightfable]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Confused-Shepard wrote...

So how many people here know about Jack's BAD END if you delay doing the Grissom Academy mission? I saw a YouTube video regarding it and was heartbreaking. Thankfully this I did not screw up. How do you feel about it? Nice Touch? Real consequences?

Regradless I enjoyed the entirety of the Academy Assault and loved the interuppts with Jack even if a bit cliche
"Must have been like Christmas for her" as Joker said. I enjoyed the Atlas part. How does it feel now Cerberus?

There's no worse fate for Jack than that.  It's that simple.  It makes her a tool of Cerberus once again, and a mindless one at that.  She says that she'd rather just die than have someone poke around in her brain to make her smile and nod.  Jack would rather die Jack, than someone who looks like Jack, but is someone else.  Yeah, I'm not going to watch any videos of that scene.  It's upsetting enough to know that this exists in-game. 

Although terribly heart-wrenching, watching the video makes me appreciate Jack even more. She fought Cerberus to the very end, even though she knew it was hopeless.

What a horrible, horrible fate though... I would say that's what made the voice actress cry, the emotion she puts in Jack's voice.... wow. 

I'm glad I saved her in my game. <3

Also, I'm glad Bioware gave us the choice to save her and her students. They could have went with her grim fate as a Phantom as the only option and we'd be stuck murdering her.

Modifié par Nightfable, 13 mars 2012 - 11:33 .

[spirosz]

fainmaca wrote...

its clear this was all done just to quell the complaints and make her more appealing to the general game fanbase.

They say that the new looks and attitude represent character growth, but all I see is character diminishment. She's no longer the complicated woman we all know from ME2, but has now become despairingly straightforward. Its a tragedy, a lesser story descended from greater origins.

I don't think Bioware changed her look to appeal to the general game fanbase, but I see your point. Though, I don't see threads popping up saying "Jack is better because of the new look or she looks hotter now, etc". Also with your last paragraph, I agree and I blame Bioware and their attitude towards the ME2 romance fanbase, they did dig themselves pretty deep with adding so many characters anyway.