7744 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

The more I think about the ME3 Jack romance arc, the less I like it.  It's all about the physical component, and the emotional component is barely touched on.  In fact, the emotional component of the arc has to be inferred by the player, who has to do mental gymnastics to explain Jack's behavior.  Jack's a very emotional person, and her romance arc in ME2 was very emotional.  You don't just ignore emotion when it comes to Jack and dating her.  If more time or attention had been paid to her character, they could have dealt more with Jack recovering from her insecurities and self-loathing as they pertain to her character development and her relationship with Shepard.  We know that Ms. Taylor is more than capable of expressing Jack's emotions.  Instead, we got nothing.

In starting to form the opinion that the whole thing feels incomplete and hollow because it is.  It stinks of writer "obligation".  No real thought was put in to the creative process.  They just needed to do something, and this is what we got.

Basically how I feel, which is sad way to look at it.  Especially after reading all those dicussions we put forth in the ME2 thread and this one. 

[Confused-Shepard]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

The more I think about the ME3 Jack romance arc, the less I like it.  It's all about the physical component, and the emotional component is barely touched on.  In fact, the emotional component of the arc has to be inferred by the player, who has to do mental gymnastics to explain Jack's behavior.  Jack's a very emotional person, and her romance arc in ME2 was very emotional.  You don't just ignore emotion when it comes to Jack and dating her.  If more time or attention had been paid to her character, they could have dealt more with Jack recovering from her insecurities and self-loathing as they pertain to her character development and her relationship with Shepard.  We know that Ms. Taylor is more than capable of expressing Jack's emotions.  Instead, we got nothing.

In starting to form the opinion that the whole thing feels incomplete and hollow because it is.  It stinks of writer "obligation".  No real thought was put in to the creative process.  They just needed to do something, and this is what we got.

You know all the cameos and stuff were really fun but then you realize how shallow a lot of stuff is
People thought that ME 2 lacked dialogue & charecter moments. ME 3 is far worse. 
We never got the opputunity to sit down and discuss the more complex stuff
Even things like how physcial Shepard can be with Jack without her feeling ... negetive emotions

[Premier Bromanov]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

You know all the cameos and stuff were really fun but then you realize how shallow a lot of stuff is
People thought that ME 2 lacked dialogue & charecter moments. ME 3 is far worse. 
We never got the opputunity to sit down and discuss the more complex stuff
Even things like how physcial Shepard can be with Jack without her feeling ... negetive emotions

The most emotion you get out of Jack in ME3 is in that cut audio where she tears up telling her students how proud of them she is.  Hell, you hear more emotion (anger) from Jack in that audio file where she's turned in to a Phantom.

Do you remember what happens in ME2 if you give Jack the impression that your interest in her is only physical/sexual?  She tells you to "**** off" for the rest of the game.  Now, in ME3, her only apparent interest in Shepard is physical.  Any emotional interest is unspoken, and must be inferred.

[Rip The Reaper]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Confused-Shepard wrote...

You know all the cameos and stuff were really fun but then you realize how shallow a lot of stuff is
People thought that ME 2 lacked dialogue & charecter moments. ME 3 is far worse. 
We never got the opputunity to sit down and discuss the more complex stuff
Even things like how physcial Shepard can be with Jack without her feeling ... negetive emotions

The most emotion you get out of Jack in ME3 is in that cut audio where she tears up telling her students how proud of them she is.  Hell, you hear more emotion (anger) from Jack in that audio file where she's turned in to a Phantom.

Do you remember what happens in ME2 if you give Jack the impression that your interest in her is only physical/sexual?  She tells you to "**** off" for the rest of the game.  Now, in ME3, her only apparent interest in Shepard is physical.  Any emotional interest is unspoken, and must be inferred.

I just tried the "break up" option as soon as you meet her to get some emotion out of her and the Entire mission plays out the EXACT same. Same dialog and everything. Of course save to "hey joker fuuuuu". I think thats just being lazy imo

[Rip The Reaper]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

The more I think about the ME3 Jack romance arc, the less I like it.  It's all about the physical component, and the emotional component is barely touched on.  In fact, the emotional component of the arc has to be inferred by the player, who has to do mental gymnastics to explain Jack's behavior.  Jack's a very emotional person, and her romance arc in ME2 was very emotional.  You don't just ignore emotion when it comes to Jack and dating her.  If more time or attention had been paid to her character, they could have dealt more with Jack recovering from her insecurities and self-loathing as they pertain to her character development and her relationship with Shepard.  We know that Ms. Taylor is more than capable of expressing Jack's emotions.  Instead, we got nothing.

In starting to form the opinion that the whole thing feels incomplete and hollow because it is.  It stinks of writer "obligation".  No real thought was put in to the creative process.  They just needed to do something, and this is what we got.

well said

[Premier Bromanov]

Sundown Native wrote...

You know, I can't even look at a Phantom anymore without getting that feeling. Like, something at the back of my head telling me "That could've been Jack, man."

I don't want to imagine the living hell it must be for Jack to be Phantom-ified.  It's Teltin all over again.  Instead of being trapped in her cell, she's trapped in her head.  Instead of being drugged up and made to fight other children, she's robbed of control of her body and forced to fight whoever she's told to.  Fighting Shepard must have been like Jack screaming and crying as she pounds on the window of her Teltin cell.  She knows no one can hear her, and no one cares about her.  At the least, killing Phantom Jack is an act of mercy.

[Premier Bromanov]

Rip The Reaper wrote...

I just tried the "break up" option as soon as you meet her to get some emotion out of her and the Entire mission plays out the EXACT same. Same dialog and everything. Of course save to "hey joker fuuuuu". I think thats just being lazy imo

Really?  She doesn't even have a response to Shepard breaking up with her?  If she does, what is it?

[Rip The Reaper]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Rip The Reaper wrote...

I just tried the "break up" option as soon as you meet her to get some emotion out of her and the Entire mission plays out the EXACT same. Same dialog and everything. Of course save to "hey joker fuuuuu". I think thats just being lazy imo

Really?  She doesn't even have a response to Shepard breaking up with her?  If she does, what is it?

She says "****, I'll burn the n7 tat off my ass later, right now we gotta save my guys" (and with 0 hesitation I might add.) And EVERY dialog after that is the exact same.

[Premier Bromanov]

Rip The Reaper wrote...

She says "****, I'll burn the n7 tat off my ass later, right now we gotta save my guys" (and with 0 hesitation I might add.) And EVERY dialog after that is the exact same.

...

So this is what Bioware wants me to believe the ME2 romance meant to Jack?

<_<

[Confused-Shepard]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Sundown Native wrote...

You know, I can't even look at a Phantom anymore without getting that feeling. Like, something at the back of my head telling me "That could've been Jack, man."

I don't want to imagine the living hell it must be for Jack to be Phantom-ified.  It's Teltin all over again.  Instead of being trapped in her cell, she's trapped in her head.  Instead of being drugged up and made to fight other children, she's robbed of control of her body and forced to fight whoever she's told to.  Fighting Shepard must have been like Jack screaming and crying as she pounds on the window of her Teltin cell.  She knows no one can hear her, and no one cares about her.  At the least, killing Phantom Jack is an act of mercy.

I wonder if the Phantom Jack idea could have been exapanded had the developers decided to give her more importance. Imagine if she managed to retain some semblance of her mind and Shepard (if he romanced her) could subdue her. Take of the mask and you see her scarred face, she's practically half inasane by now but can control herslef. She proceeds to go on a rage induced killing spree. Dual Boss fight with you and Phantom Jack vs Kai Leng & Illusive Man (in his armor suit). Jack proceeds to chop Illusive Man in Half. Jack makes a tearful confession about how she always loved Shepard and does not blame him for not saving her in time saying that she got too "soft".

You could try to convice her that everything will be okay and with some FUTURE therapy & surgery she could go back to being normal. She replies that she was never normal but was happy that she met someone like Shepard who cared so much. She proceeds to stab herself in the gut with her sword and dies in Shep's arms. "I was too happy... too happy with you" line from Mass Effect 2

Or would that be too bleak? Or cheezy? Or hell do the Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 4) thing and have Jack be robotosized but completey herself (Gets captured but Shep or someone else saves her). Proceeds to hack & slash her way through Cerberus goons, almost heroic sacrifce (Raiden getting crushed by a giant ship) but ultimately a happy end when given a regular looking (BUT mechanical) body. 

On a different note after I saw that concept art  of Kai Leng busting through the Normandy's glass roof I thought it would have been great for him to catch Shep & LI in the act and then have a gun fight on the Normandy while... BUTT NAKED!

[Confused-Shepard]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Rip The Reaper wrote...

She says "****, I'll burn the n7 tat off my ass later, right now we gotta save my guys" (and with 0 hesitation I might add.) And EVERY dialog after that is the exact same.

...

So this is what Bioware wants me to believe the ME2 romance meant to Jack?

<_<

Okay that dialogue was wierd for me too but what about the kissing and interuppt on the shuttle
Even in Purgatory she asks if you are serious about a relationship and not just goofing around

Also, regardless of the enduings. What would your ideal future be for the two of them? 
Shepard = Admiral and Jack should lead her own Biotic Death Squad (Heavy Risk; Clean up missions)
They are not officially married but see each other often. 

[Premier Bromanov]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

Okay that dialogue was wierd for me too but what about the kissing and interuppt on the shuttle
Even in Purgatory she asks if you are serious about a relationship and not just goofing around

Also, regardless of the enduings. What would your ideal future be for the two of them? 
Shepard = Admiral and Jack should lead her own Biotic Death Squad (Heavy Risk; Clean up missions)
They are not officially married but see each other often. 

There's a lot of kissing, but it's the physical part of the relationship.  Physical intimacy without emotion isn't characteristic of the romance with Jack.  As for Jack asking about Shepard still being interested in their relationship, it is a step in the right direction, but the player must still infer from it.  Also, it's in the "do-you-want-to-break-up" line.  As I said before, there's not enough direct treatment of Jack's emotions.  I guess it's the result of Jack having minimal screentime overall.

EDIT: As for Jack going with Shepard to kill TIM and dismantle Cerberus, the boss fight with TIM was cut out because it was too "video game-y".  Also, Jack becomes the same person, no matter what you tell her to do with Aresh in ME2.  She wants to change for herself.  In this way, I don't think encouraging her in revenge would be constructive.

As for Jack and Shepard's future...there'll be a lot of cleaning up to do after the Reaper Wars.  If the Alliance wants to keep Grissom Academy open, Jack could opt to remain a teacher, but before schools, people need food, water, shelter, and safety.  Shepard's work isn't done.  Jack could come along for the ride.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 16 mars 2012 - 04:36 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

The only issue I had with Jack's romance arc in ME3 was its abrupt ending. I mean, c'mon, give us an emotional goodbye after the dance, not some magical disappearance. Especially since that's a scene that all Shepards get, if I'm not mistaken.

I get why some of you are disappointed and that's fair. I'm just not. I also felt like I wanted just one more conversation, but I probably would have wanted just one more conversation if they gave me 20!

[Premier Bromanov]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

The only issue I had with Jack's romance arc in ME3 was its abrupt ending. I mean, c'mon, give us an emotional goodbye after the dance, not some magical disappearance. Especially since that's a scene that all Shepards get, if I'm not mistaken.

I get why some of you are disappointed and that's fair. I'm just not. I also felt like I wanted just one more conversation, but I probably would have wanted just one more conversation if they gave me 20!

What did you think of the conversation with Jack via the holo-communicator?

[His Name was HYR!!]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

What did you think of the conversation with Jack via the holo-communicator?

I loved it, particularly hearing Shepard say the L-word. That conversation in general just felt really "right" about their relationship. She's wild and passionate, and he's always along for the ride.

Again, I wanted more afterwards, but I would have always wanted more.

[spirosz]

Bah, I probably won't be around these forums/this thread for too long because we can barley go off anything in regards to Jack, since there is practically nothing there from ME2, except the amazing voice acting. Sad, even though she's still a complex character and one I adore, the lack of context with her and the way Bioware wrote her relationship with Shepard in ME3 disappoints me greatly, it's like they thought everyone did the casual sex, lol.

[kylemesa]

Now we just need Jack as a playable multiplayer skin. Since she was fighting in the war and was BA.

[Premier Bromanov]

spiros9110 wrote...

Bah, I probably won't be around these forums/this thread for too long because we can barley go off anything in regards to Jack, since there is practically nothing there from ME2, except the amazing voice acting. Sad, even though she's still a complex character and one I adore, the lack of context with her and the way Bioware wrote her relationship with Shepard in ME3 disappoints me greatly, it's like they thought everyone did the casual sex, lol.

I hate seeing all the old Jackolytes leaving   Unfortunately, you're right.  There's so little to go off.  At least in ME2 we had a whole new character to analyze and discuss.

[Rip The Reaper]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Rip The Reaper wrote...

She says "****, I'll burn the n7 tat off my ass later, right now we gotta save my guys" (and with 0 hesitation I might add.) And EVERY dialog after that is the exact same.

...

So this is what Bioware wants me to believe the ME2 romance meant to Jack?

<_<

And the bar scene after that is the exact same as well. even the "if we gotta call it quits" line.

Modifié par Rip The Reaper, 16 mars 2012 - 06:04 .

[Rip The Reaper]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Premier Bromanov wrote...

What did you think of the conversation with Jack via the holo-communicator?

I loved it, particularly hearing Shepard say the L-word. That conversation in general just felt really "right" about their relationship. She's wild and passionate, and he's always along for the ride.

Again, I wanted more afterwards, but I would have always wanted more.

I like the idea but sheps voice sounded sarcastic when he said it to me. I would have liked if Jack said something after that like "really, be carful" or something in the very least

[Nightfable]

spiros9110 wrote...

Bah, I probably won't be around these forums/this thread for too long because we can barley go off anything in regards to Jack, since there is practically nothing there from ME2, except the amazing voice acting. Sad, even though she's still a complex character and one I adore, the lack of context with her and the way Bioware wrote her relationship with Shepard in ME3 disappoints me greatly, it's like they thought everyone did the casual sex, lol.

Aw, Spiros...  *big hugs*

[Confused-Shepard]

Fingers crossed for a Romance DLC where Jack & Shepard have sex and then discuss their relationship, the future, where they are going and all that icky stuff... Oh wait... the endings ruined everything... dammit. This is what fan fiction is for...

I do agree howwver that ME 3 is sorely lacking in the charecter development department. There is  geuinine lack of true emotion. Rememeber that fanart of Jack comforting a Sole Survivor Shepard after a horrible nightmare? Ironically there already are nightmare's in the game.  We needed a moment like that. Jack should have discussed her insecurities, wether she still feels angry and broken or has she healed.  It's things like this why I wonder wether having romances or charecters like Jack are even worth it if you won't examine them thoughroughly
Too much... HERP A DERP! TEH REAPERS!

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 16 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[fainmaca]

Feels to me like there was a lot of sidelining going on in this game. People who appeared in the other 2 games like Gianna and Sha'ira have vanished, while other cameos are given almost as much content as former squadmates. Themes are discarded left and right to favour minor messages that are suddenly brought to the fore.

I think this is all a result of the changes to the writing staff. Once the new structure was formed, the new team decided to focus on what they already created and more or less discard as much as they could of the rest. Had the writing team remained the same throughout the entire trilogy, we'd have seen much more satisfying continuations of what matters to us.

In short, this shouldn't have happened. When you agree to continue a story, you take responsibility for handling it aright. If the person in charge of Jack's segment was that careless about her, he should have handed it on to someone more enthusiastic for the character.