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"Hello Dead People!": The Jackolyte Society


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#5126
Aver88

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SwimDevil wrote...

I'm not sure why you guys are coming down so hard on Jack's role in the game. I agree she should have gotten more screen time but, I like that it is more distinct and somewhat tragic that her and Shepard are separated due to their respective "families". She's got to take care of her kids and Shepard has to lead the war. I understand the disappointment that Bioware favored the more popular ME1 cast, but at least they gave her a decent reason for being away.


Listen to her dialogue in Prugatory. She said "they are spread out in various alliance units". So she is not even with them. Her main role is giving them assignments and I don't see why she can't do this from Normandy. Normandy has connection with Alliance fleet. 

Modifié par Aver88, 03 avril 2012 - 11:29 .


#5127
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SwimDevil wrote...

I'm not sure why you guys are coming down so hard on Jack's role in the game. I agree she should have gotten more screen time but, I like that it is more distinct and somewhat tragic that her and Shepard are separated due to their respective "families". She's got to take care of her kids and Shepard has to lead the war. I understand the disappointment that Bioware favored the more popular ME1 cast, but at least they gave her a decent reason for being away.



If Bioware can come up with a lame excuse for Liara to be on the Normandy like Cerberus was chasing her. I'm sure they could of did the same with Jack.

Modifié par mosesarose, 03 avril 2012 - 11:18 .


#5128
Padt

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SwimDevil wrote...

I'm not sure why you guys are coming down so hard on Jack's role in the game. I agree she should have gotten more screen time but, I like that it is more distinct and somewhat tragic that her and Shepard are separated due to their respective "families". She's got to take care of her kids and Shepard has to lead the war. I understand the disappointment that Bioware favored the more popular ME1 cast, but at least they gave her a decent reason for being away.

Honestly, I'm okay with that. I mean, for me, the most ideal thing would naturally be to have Jack on the Normandy as a permanent squadmate and love interest, but I can perfectly accept their decision not to use her in that capacity, and as I've said before, I honestly find what little content there is in the game featuring Jack to be extremely satisfying. I just wish there was more of it. So, she can't be around. That's perfectly okay. She and Shepard are trying the long-distance thing, and that's okay too. It's unique. But how about, say, having her and Shepard meet up somewhere after rekindling their relationship at Purgatory? Maybe during a mission or while they're both on shore leave? Or have a conversation or two via vidcom? Maybe have her drop by the Normandy just prior to the final mission, to spend a little time with Shepard knowing that it may be the last time they see each other? Things of that nature. As it stands right now, I feel as though Jack in ME3 mostly just brims with untapped potential, because almost everything involving her is just so well-written and executed. I just think it's a shame we couldn't get more of it.

#5129
KingNothing125

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Plus it's not like Jack's going to play mama grizzly to Prangley and Rodriguez forever... have them "graduate" or whatever, and pow, she's free to tear S up with Shep.

Tali does the same thing. You solve her problem (by you know, reconquering their homeworld), and she's just like "New homeworld, whatevs! Let's go tool around in space some more!"

Garrus has even less reason to join you. You show up on Manae, Palaven's moon and he's just like "right behind you!" But Garrus, what about Palaven? "I'd rather shoot some S with you, Shep." Fair enough, welcome aboard. Y U No do the same thing, Jack? :'(

#5130
Aver88

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Please, every fan of Jack, write a letter and send it via PM to Visii. It will be given to BioWare employees at Pax. It's important. It can be even short but write this.

It's our best chance to be listened.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10853184/1

#5131
Soviet Rei

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mosesarose wrote...

I think Liara romance was better than both male and female romances. It seems she's Bioware favorite.



This is so true it's ****ing insulting. I get that Liara's a pretty good character with some interesting development over the series, but it gets ridiculous when other characters we love are just cast aside while she gets the focus and attention to detail characters like Jack deserve. Frankly it's a big part of why I really am not a fan of Liara. I might've been if BioWare didn't decide she deserved so much more attention than all the other characters.

#5132
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Soviet Rei wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

I think Liara romance was better than both male and female romances. It seems she's Bioware favorite.



This is so true it's ****ing insulting. I get that Liara's a pretty good character with some interesting development over the series, but it gets ridiculous when other characters we love are just cast aside while she gets the focus and attention to detail characters like Jack deserve. Frankly it's a big part of why I really am not a fan of Liara. I might've been if BioWare didn't decide she deserved so much more attention than all the other characters.


I know what you mean. I was even suprised to see Tali and garrus get less screentime, and they're suppose to be the fan favorite.

#5133
Kuro.Ookami

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SwimDevil wrote...

I'm not sure why you guys are coming down so hard on Jack's role in the game. I agree she should have gotten more screen time but, I like that it is more distinct and somewhat tragic that her and Shepard are separated due to their respective "families". She's got to take care of her kids and Shepard has to lead the war. I understand the disappointment that Bioware favored the more popular ME1 cast, but at least they gave her a decent reason for being away.


Tali was an Admiral, she should have stayed on Rannoch/Migrant Fleet to help the Quarians prepare themselves for war. Instead, just abandon everything and join you.

Garrus was the "Reaper expert" of the Turian, he should have stayed behind on Palaven or the Hierarchy to coordinate their attack and evacuation.

Liara is the Shadow Broker, she should have done her job properly and use all her ressources to gather an army. Remember that she had the potential to start a war in minutes. Such a power would be put to better use by gathering allies instead of going on field missions.

Wrex was a leader on Tuchanka just as Tali yet you don't see him in a squad.

Jack, on the other hand, should have stayed. She went from psychotic biotic to teacher in barely 6 month? That's without taking into account the endless list of crimes she did and that the Alliance hire her? It's also worth noting that Shepard can influence Jack so that she doesn't open herself up. Yet, you can still see her with students that she is taking care of. That seems a bit...out of character. On the other hand, at the very beginning you see that Cerberus is against you (Mars mission) and who hates Cerberus more than anything and would be more than willing to follow you if it mean killing Cerberus? Exactly, Jack. If she was willing to work with Shepard who was working with Cerberus against the Collectors in ME2, she should also be if Shepard clash with Cerberus. I can't seem to find any way that Liara, Garrus or Tali makes more sense than Jack in term of Squadmate. 

#5134
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Kuro.Ookami wrote...

SwimDevil wrote...

I'm not sure why you guys are coming down so hard on Jack's role in the game. I agree she should have gotten more screen time but, I like that it is more distinct and somewhat tragic that her and Shepard are separated due to their respective "families". She's got to take care of her kids and Shepard has to lead the war. I understand the disappointment that Bioware favored the more popular ME1 cast, but at least they gave her a decent reason for being away.


Tali was an Admiral, she should have stayed on Rannoch/Migrant Fleet to help the Quarians prepare themselves for war. Instead, just abandon everything and join you.

Garrus was the "Reaper expert" of the Turian, he should have stayed behind on Palaven or the Hierarchy to coordinate their attack and evacuation.

Liara is the Shadow Broker, she should have done her job properly and use all her ressources to gather an army. Remember that she had the potential to start a war in minutes. Such a power would be put to better use by gathering allies instead of going on field missions.

Wrex was a leader on Tuchanka just as Tali yet you don't see him in a squad.

Jack, on the other hand, should have stayed. She went from psychotic biotic to teacher in barely 6 month? That's without taking into account the endless list of crimes she did and that the Alliance hire her? It's also worth noting that Shepard can influence Jack so that she doesn't open herself up. Yet, you can still see her with students that she is taking care of. That seems a bit...out of character. On the other hand, at the very beginning you see that Cerberus is against you (Mars mission) and who hates Cerberus more than anything and would be more than willing to follow you if it mean killing Cerberus? Exactly, Jack. If she was willing to work with Shepard who was working with Cerberus against the Collectors in ME2, she should also be if Shepard clash with Cerberus. I can't seem to find any way that Liara, Garrus or Tali makes more sense than Jack in term of Squadmate. 



Yes to everything you said. This exactly to a 110%

#5135
Premier Bromanov

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Also, Tali wasn't originally going to be a ME3 squadmate, but fan popularity made it so. Jack's role, however, was up in the air until late in the game's development. So, one character who has no real reason to be a squadmate, and who is only a squadmate because of her popularity, is a squadmate.  Jack, who could have been a squadmate due to not having a role until later, and who could have been written any way due to this, is not a squadmate.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 04 avril 2012 - 12:28 .


#5136
thesnake777

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Aver88 wrote...

Please, every fan of Jack, write a letter and send it via PM to Visii. It will be given to BioWare employees at Pax. It's important. It can be even short but write this.

It's our best chance to be listened.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10853184/1



Sent mine in.

All Jackolytes should get in on this.

#5137
zombitologist

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Alright, I get what you mean. But Tali and Garrus' roles with their people were advisers that didn't need to be directly involved. Tali herself was a geth advisor in a war that ended she didn't have any ship besides Normandy. So the difference there was that Tali, Liara, and Garrus didn't need to be anywhere in person. Wrex was in charge of coordinating all Krogan he didn't have time to run around with Shep. As much as Jack wanted to rejoin Shepard she felt that her "kids" needed her there to help them. They weren't trained soldiers like Kaiden's biotics squads that she could manage from a distance.

#5138
Aver88

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SwimDevil wrote...

Alright, I get what you mean. But Tali and Garrus' roles with their people were advisers that didn't need to be directly involved. Tali herself was a geth advisor in a war that ended she didn't have any ship besides Normandy. So the difference there was that Tali, Liara, and Garrus didn't need to be anywhere in person. Wrex was in charge of coordinating all Krogan he didn't have time to run around with Shep. As much as Jack wanted to rejoin Shepard she felt that her "kids" needed her there to help them. They weren't trained soldiers like Kaiden's biotics squads that she could manage from a distance.


But how she can help them?

#5139
thesnake777

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SwimDevil wrote...

Alright, I get what you mean. But Tali and Garrus' roles with their people were advisers that didn't need to be directly involved. Tali herself was a geth advisor in a war that ended she didn't have any ship besides Normandy. So the difference there was that Tali, Liara, and Garrus didn't need to be anywhere in person. Wrex was in charge of coordinating all Krogan he didn't have time to run around with Shep. As much as Jack wanted to rejoin Shepard she felt that her "kids" needed her there to help them. They weren't trained soldiers like Kaiden's biotics squads that she could manage from a distance.


As someone stated further up shes not really with them. They were broken up and put with other teams. So she would really only be able to stay with a handfull of them. 

#5140
kumquats

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I would only ditch EDI for Jack.
ME3 without Tali and Garrus? No thank you.

But I still have hope that they planed on adding one Squadmate, Thane's quarters is the only room, they never use for party banter. Which is very odd.

Why not make an option, if her Studens are only in Support roles or a full combat Squad.
If they are a full combat Squad, I would never see Jack leaving them.
But only Support role? Why not.

#5141
Padt

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Truthfully, I don't think it's so implausible (well, within the parameters of the games) that Garrus and Tali are available to join Shepard on the Normandy while Jack isn't. Garrus' chief value to the turians is his knowledge about the Reapers. That's why he was assigned the position of consultant on the matter. He's not a front line soldier, so he doesn't need to be physically there on Palaven or Menae to assist with the turian war effort. Not when you consider the sort of communications technology that exists in the games' setting, which should make things like advising the turian leaders on how to approach a given situation fairly simple. Moreover, considering his Primarch also joins you on the Normandy for a good stretch of the game, and then assigns Garrus to coordinate the turians' effort to help the Alliance, I don't think it's so illogical for Garrus to follow Shepard and (most importantly) Victus up on the ship.

As for Tali, both she and the admirals make it pretty clear that her rank as admiral is only a formality granted because they need her expertise on the geth, whom the quarians are now at war with. It's like Garrus' thing, an advisory position that is largely situational. Once that situation (i.e., the war with the geth) is resolved, they don't need for her to stick around. I sincerely doubt her being granted admirality is something that would occur under normal circumstances, considering 1) Tali's still a kid (when you first talk to her, she tells you she's too young to be considered a "true" admiral) and 2) the fact that she remains "Tali'Zorah vas Normandy" even if you don't get her exiled. When you take into account how much value quarians place on the ship-community that each of them belongs to, as well as the bond they share with their captain, I think it's natural that, once the matter with the geth is resolved, they would let her join Shepard on the Normandy again.

Jack, on the other hand, is an Alliance soldier. So are her kids. They're not executives or advisors or generals or what have you, they're grunts. People who join and face other people in the battlefield. So they're fighting on the ground (whether it's in a support capacity or not doesn't really affect things; either way, it's still ground deployment) because that's what the Alliance wants them to do, and considering how powerful Jack is and the potential that some of her kids seem to exhibit, that is likely the place where they would be most effective (and it's also probably not a responsibility that any of them could wiggle out of, at least not without the risk of court martial).

Granted, considering that Shepard appears to be promoted to "Comander of Everything" at the start of ME3, it's likely that he could easily just have the Alliance reassign Jack to the Normandy. But that dovetails back to the argument about whether Jack would ever leave her kids, which I honestly don't think she would. The kids could come on the Normandy too, I suppose, but by that point it would just start to become a waste of biotic power that the Alliance's war effort could use.

Modifié par Padt, 04 avril 2012 - 06:48 .


#5142
imp187

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Nearly every companion has a good reason NOT to be at Shepards side.... but as a writer, there would be no problem at all, to write Jack into the squad. Maybe with better reasons than most of the others...
Like she was the "main-target" at grissom and cerberus wants her so bad that she should not stay with "her kids" and put them in harms way. Or let one of the kids get killed and she wants revenge at cerberus and so on...
This would by no means be a problem for them...

#5143
gearseffect

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First off Tali's and Admiral for the Quarians, that's the equivalent in a way too Eve and Wrex of the Krogans.

Garrus has no real reason to not come with Shepard again. Because after all Garrus has become the sidekick for Shepard.

Jack being a squad mate makes more sense than Tali who's an Admiral. Not to mention BW had some plans to make her a squad mate which got lost in some for some BS reason. In the leaked scripts Jack had a bigger role than what she got in the game.

Also I agree with everyone above on Liara being forced onto us and completely ruining her. For me if you keep pushing something like that and doing it more I tend to just hate that thing that was being pushed. In this case Liara is that thing. Before ME3 I was a Liara fan and would defend her till I was blue in the face. Now I'd be happy to get a chance to let her die in ME3. I can't stand her in fact in one of my ME3 games I had imported a Shepard that had been faithful to Liara for both games, and in ME3 I was so sick of her I ended up dumping her for Ashley.

#5144
imp187

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In my opinion, grissom was a really great start to introduce her new "attitude"....
And after that it feels as if they just wrote her off for the sake of getting the "line budget"...

But even though i am most interested in new Jack content and to "know her better", i hope that our letters and all the threads will be heard and that bioware sees how much potential (money) is in the LI-DLC´s...
A 5$-10$ big DLC for every LI and i think i may not be the only one who would be "dumb enough" to throw my hard earned money at them ;-)

Modifié par imp187, 04 avril 2012 - 09:55 .


#5145
Sinekein

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imp187 wrote...

Nearly every companion has a good reason NOT to be at Shepards side.... but as a writer, there would be no problem at all, to write Jack into the squad. Maybe with better reasons than most of the others...
Like she was the "main-target" at grissom and cerberus wants her so bad that she should not stay with "her kids" and put them in harms way. Or let one of the kids get killed and she wants revenge at cerberus and so on...
This would by no means be a problem for them...


More like they made an arbitrary choice : no squadmates in 3 introduced in 2 (except for EDI, obviously, but she is plot-relevant). Sounds harsh, but it would have been impossible to satisfy everyone. Why Jack ? Why Zaeed ? Why not Grunt ? Or Miranda ? Or Kasumi ?

BUT I have to say, as a hardcore Talimancer, that Jack's new looks and attitude almost made me change my mind, which is REALLY saying something. She's the boss now.

#5146
imp187

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Sinekein wrote...


More like they made an arbitrary choice : no squadmates in 3 introduced in 2 (except for EDI, obviously, but she is plot-relevant). Sounds harsh, but it would have been impossible to satisfy everyone. Why Jack ? Why Zaeed ? Why not Grunt ? Or Miranda ? Or Kasumi ?

BUT I have to say, as a hardcore Talimancer, that Jack's new looks and attitude almost made me change my mind, which is REALLY saying something. She's the boss now.


Exactly... i said earlier that i think this was a really bad design decision...
why not have all me1 companions in me2 +x (x would be 1-2 new companions and maybe some compensation companions if someone died in me1 and for replayability)... then have all me2 companions in me3 +x etc...
In that case they had to leave nobody behind and every established "companion-love" would be existing throughout the next part...
Why decide to screw over people...and from the first moment, this decision was made it would have been clear that there are not so few people who would be pi**ed that THEIR favorite isn´t in the game anymore...
I get it to collect them back to the squad..and maybe you could leave them out for good or you have to decide x or y on the squad... but canceling a squadmember and completely throw the established connection over board... i don´t get it.
I love the character developement to nearly every squadmember (especially Jack) and don´t know why they shifted so many out...

#5147
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Me personally think they should of scraped the EDI as squad mate deal and handled her like Cortana and let her live in shepard's suit so that way we wouldn't "need" her to come along for that cerberus base mission. And then have her spot be opened to the player's romance. That could of satisfied everyone.

Modifié par mosesarose, 04 avril 2012 - 01:34 .


#5148
imp187

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mosesarose wrote...

Me personally think they should of scraped the EDI as squad mate deal and handled her like Cortana and let her live in shepard's suit so that way we wouldn't "need" her to come along for that cerberus base mission. And then have her spot be opened to the player's romance. That could of satisfied everyone.


Something like this would be a "light" version to satisfy people... in case of the things we got right now, i really would appriciate it, cause it would be at least be a bit better and there would be much more replayability.

#5149
Visii

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Just a reminder everyone. If ya want to make your voice heard about how you think Jack's romance went in ME3 (MOAR MOAR MAOR JACK PLOX) PM me or post here!

http://social.biowar...ndex/10853184/4

I have 15 letters from Jack fans right now. Is that it, then?

Passionate, but polite! What did you like, what didn't you like? Were your expectations met regarding how you last saw Jack in ME2? How well do you think she was portrayed in ME3? What do you wish was done better, or differently?

Deadline for letters is Thursday 9 PM (EST). Gotta PM it to me or post on the above thread by then so I can be sure it gets printed out!!

So far, all told, we've got:

Letters: 80

All/General: 11
Ashley: 4
Jack: 15
Jacob: 5
Thane: 22
Miranda: 19
Samara: 2
Vega: 2

Modifié par Visii, 04 avril 2012 - 02:00 .


#5150
Aver88

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Guys, we have to write more letters than Miranda's fans! Let's show them that Jack is the most wanted female character! ;)

Modifié par Aver88, 04 avril 2012 - 04:17 .