7744 réponses à ce sujet

[lillitheris]

I’ve got a fair bit of Jack written in “Unity”, if anyone’s out of fic to read (sadly there aren’t that many Jack stories in the ALL fanfic thread).

Still a side role, but I’ve reworked my plans to substantially increase her role, too, mostly because I really love the Jack-Vega dynamic. It’s bringing out stuff I want to explore with her. I’ve actually considered a separate little series focusing on the duo, but it might have to wait.

Two warnings:

1. It’s not Shepard/Jack;

2. She’s definitely ME3. Character could be summarized thus:

Pre-Shepard: F— with me, I’ll f— you up.
Post-Shepard: F— with me or mine, I’ll f— you up.

So the rough side isn’t gone, it just manifests differently.

[fainmaca]

Jonata wrote...

Just realized something. In ME2, Jack says that when someone dies, she feel her chances of survival growing up and that make her feel more "safe" somehow.

Then, by whiping out every Synthetic being in the Galaxy, Shepard almost doubled Jack's chance of survival from that point of view.

It IS somewhat cynic and cruel, but it could be a starting point for a ending-survivor Shepard to cope with the guilt together with Jack. It could even become some kind of joke between them to help Shepard live with the fact that he killed an entire race.

I couldn't see it, TBH. We are talking about genocide here, and i doubt even jack would look to find a funny side to that.

When she talks about her chances of survival going up, I see that applying to people specifically around her, in that those she knows/ is friends with could be weaknesses to be exploited and are better off gone, and enemies are threats that need to die.

i see pre-ME2 Jack as seeing danger in everything, thus not trusting anyone until Shep makes the effort.

[DarkPrinceRevan]

yea Shepard didnt really take it to well blowing up one relay and killing 300,000 Batarians, overclocking the whole network and wiping out all synthetic life including EDI will be a touchy subject for Shepard for life.

[Premier Bromanov]

DarkPrinceRevan wrote...

yea Shepard didnt really take it to well blowing up one relay and killing 300,000 Batarians, overclocking the whole network and wiping out all synthetic life including EDI will be a touchy subject for Shepard for life.

I actually thought it would be kind of cool if Shepard didn't mention it to anyone.  It could be a  "Watchmen"-esque situation, where Shepard accepts and hides an unacceptable means to an end that destroys the Reapers once and all.  When people first ask Shepard what happened to the geth, he explains that destroying the Reapers must have also destroyed the geth.  Then, slowly, over the years, he divulges the secret to his closest friends.

I wonder what Jack would think about that, Shepard being the Watchmen (minus Rorschach) to his own Veidt.

I feel like I've posted this here before

[Jonata]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

DarkPrinceRevan wrote...

yea Shepard didnt really take it to well blowing up one relay and killing 300,000 Batarians, overclocking the whole network and wiping out all synthetic life including EDI will be a touchy subject for Shepard for life.

I actually thought it would be kind of cool if Shepard didn't mention it to anyone.  It could be a  "Watchmen"-esque situation, where Shepard accepts and hides an unacceptable means to an end that destroys the Reapers once and all.  When people first ask Shepard what happened to the geth, he explains that destroying the Reapers must have also destroyed the geth.  Then, slowly, over the years, he divulges the secret to his closest friends.

I wonder what Jack would think about that, Shepard being the Watchmen (minus Rorschach) to his own Veidt.

I feel like I've posted this here before

The Veidt similarity fits perfectly... I can see Shepard disclosing the secret to his closest friends (and offcourse to Jack if he romanced her) during the years, slowly coping with the pain and guilt. 

But given that he pressed that button to kill 300.000 batarians without hesitation because he had to stop the Reapers, I guess he will snap out of it given time.

[DarkPrinceRevan]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

DarkPrinceRevan wrote...

yea Shepard didnt really take it to well blowing up one relay and killing 300,000 Batarians, overclocking the whole network and wiping out all synthetic life including EDI will be a touchy subject for Shepard for life.

I actually thought it would be kind of cool if Shepard didn't mention it to anyone.  It could be a  "Watchmen"-esque situation, where Shepard accepts and hides an unacceptable means to an end that destroys the Reapers once and all.  When people first ask Shepard what happened to the geth, he explains that destroying the Reapers must have also destroyed the geth.  Then, slowly, over the years, he divulges the secret to his closest friends.

I wonder what Jack would think about that, Shepard being the Watchmen (minus Rorschach) to his own Veidt.

I feel like I've posted this here before

that could work cause unless pressed on an issue Shepard doesnt readily give up information about himself or his actions most of the time. i just dont think he would joke about it or bring it up unless necessary like to convide in Joker what really happened to EDI.

[Dr. Doctor]

DarkPrinceRevan wrote...

yea Shepard didnt really take it to well blowing up one relay and killing 300,000 Batarians, overclocking the whole network and wiping out all synthetic life including EDI will be a touchy subject for Shepard for life.

That is if the Geth and EDI are actually destroyed, I get the feeling Skippy the Starchild there was lying so he could save his own behind.

[Seifer006]

First time on this thread.

I was curious, is Bioware doing anything to bring Subject Zer0 back in the game of ME3? maybe DLC or something? I want more then just a DLC she should be in my Squad IMO. She's not a babysitter:

the Turian Warden in ME2 - said she was the most powerful biotic out there.

Anyway, I like to know if Bioware has taken this to consideration or not. Also, I'm writing my ME3: Review - and I need help on Jack.

The reason is, I want to make sure Bioware really takes notice of her, so I could use some constructive feedback

Thanks

[Premier Bromanov]

Seifer006 wrote...

First time on this thread.

I was curious, is Bioware doing anything to bring Subject Zer0 back in the game of ME3? maybe DLC or something? I want more then just a DLC she should be in my Squad IMO. She's not a babysitter:

the Turian Warden in ME2 - said she was the most powerful biotic out there.

Anyway, I like to know if Bioware has taken this to consideration or not. Also, I'm writing my ME3: Review - and I need help on Jack.

The reason is, I want to make sure Bioware really takes notice of her, so I could use some constructive feedback

Thanks

We don't know.  Bioware hasn't said anything.  All we have is hope.  Some of us don't have even that.

Jack is on Earth at the end of ME3.  Along with Miranda, that would make her one of the only LIs whose fate is known at the end of the game.  Though, for all we know, they could write it that she died in the final battle.  They'd need to at least mention her in the EC for us to know what happened to her.

[Jonata]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

We don't know.  Bioware hasn't said anything.  All we have is hope.  Some of us don't have even that.

Jack is on Earth at the end of ME3.  Along with Miranda, that would make her one of the only LIs whose fate is known at the end of the game.  Though, for all we know, they could write it that she died in the final battle.  They'd need to at least mention her in the EC for us to know what happened to her.

Died in the final battle? What the hell? If they're gonna say something like that they may as well shat in my face at 6AM in the morning. That would feel better.

EDIT: and damn you! Now I'll have nightmares about that until the EC comes out! 

Modifié par Jonata, 16 juin 2012 - 01:00 .

[Jonata]

Seifer006 wrote...

First time on this thread.

I was curious, is Bioware doing anything to bring Subject Zer0 back in the game of ME3? maybe DLC or something? I want more then just a DLC she should be in my Squad IMO. She's not a babysitter:

the Turian Warden in ME2 - said she was the most powerful biotic out there.

Anyway, I like to know if Bioware has taken this to consideration or not. Also, I'm writing my ME3: Review - and I need help on Jack.

The reason is, I want to make sure Bioware really takes notice of her, so I could use some constructive feedback

Thanks

Using simple facts like how she and Samara are the only one that can effectively hold the biotic barrier against swarms in the Collector's Base, I'd say it's pretty fair to admit that she's the most powerful human biotic in the Galaxy.

Maybe she even has the most powerful sheer biotic potential of the Galaxy, but Asari Justicars with their centuries of training are capable of doing greater things with minor potential.

That being said, she's absolutely a very important character, not only she was actually one of Cerberus' darker and yet more succesfully experiment (they actually evolved a human being above every other species), she's also the single most powerful soldier the Alliance got.

It's pretty reasonable that she want to protect, but as I said before, something like this would have been awesome and, pretty much, Jack deserve it. BioWare could simply add something like this and some Courtenay Taylor lines and the game would be better as a whole. 

Say whatever you want, but romanced or not, Jack is one of Mass Effect's best feature ever.

[fainmaca]

@Sundown: Bear in mind that DragDog comes from CapCom, masters of storytelling as everyone knows.

Sarcasm aside, I doubt anyone really bought into DD thinking they'd get a brilliant story. They bought into it to shove a sword up a Chimera's buttcrack while clinging to its backhair. Bioware, on the other hand, is obligated to give us a powerful story. Remember the Revan reveal? The betrayal in Jade Empire? hell, even the storylines I've gone through in TOR (BH, JC and SI) were amazing, although they suffered from being broken up by hours of grinding.

So no, I don't think we should be happy that ME3 wasn't this. Bioware can and should do better. And they'd damn well better do right by Jack in the EC! (doubt it).

IMO, the only way to do right by the franchise and fanbase is a remake. Its fair for them, but a lot of work for the dev. BUT, if done right it would gain my undying loyalty and gratitude. Especially with Jack as a proper squaddie.

[FeralEwok]

Hey Jackolytes was wondering how Jack changes in ME3 if you are not a paragon, or did not choose to talk to her with compassion.

Does she still call you King of the boy scouts and make you sound like a saint? Or does it change?

Also if you had casual sex with her in Me2 does she at all mention it, or can she even survive the Suicide Mission if that happens?

Modifié par FeralEwok, 16 juin 2012 - 08:22 .

[Padt]

FeralEwok wrote...

Hey Jackolytes was wondering how Jack changes in ME3 if you are not a paragon, or did not choose to talk to her with compassion.

Does she still call you King of the boy scouts and make you sound like a saint? Or does it change?

I've played that scene as a Renegade Shepard, and she still called him the king of boy scouts. Mind you, that was a Shepard who was a Paragon through ME2 and whom I changed into a Renegade through multiple ME3 playthroughs, so I suppose there's a chance that might have had something to do with it.

FeralEwok wrote... Also if you had casual sex with her in Me2 does she at all mention it, or can she even survive the Suicide Mission if that happens?

Yeah. When you're talking to her in Orion Hall, if you tell her that she looks good, she says something along the lines of, "What, you want to pin me under the sub-deck again?"

As far as Jack at Chronos Station goes...well, I believe I saw Patrick Weekes state on Twitter a while back that if we were to see Jack or Miranda again, it would have to be somewhere else (that is to say, not on that mission). I freely admit that I don't know much about this stuff, but what I took away from his explanations on that is that the unfortunate reality of videogame development, even in the era of downloadable patches and DLC, is that it's exceedingly difficult - if not outright impossible - to make significant changes to a game once it's already been finished. It requires patching and changing far too much of the game's coding, audio files, etc. He also forwarded this as an explanation for why it's unlikely that Thane's death will ever be retconned.

Anyway, this is presumably why the effect that DLC usually has on already-finished games is additive, as opposed to transformative. Lair of the Shadow Broker, for example, didn't 'change' ME2 so that Liara's office is suddenly located on Omega instead of Illium, or change the squad makeup so that she can be recruited permanently, or what have you. What it did, for the most part, was add new things to the game; new missions, new upgrades, new locations, new cutscenes, etc. The rest of the game, however, is already "set in stone", so to speak. To tortuously extend the metaphor, under most circumstances the most you can do with DLC is pile stuff on top of that stone, but not change the stone itself.

So I figure...if we see Jack - or any other former squadmate, come to that - it's going to be in something that sort of happens off and to the side of the game's main plot structure. A new mission, a new cutscene or what have you. I imagine the odds of seeing her inserted into one of the missions or cutscenes that are already in the game are, unfortunately, probably slim to none.

Modifié par Padt, 16 juin 2012 - 11:26 .

[Jonata]

Padt wrote...
Anyway, this is presumably why the effect that DLC usually has on already-finished games is additive, as opposed to transformative. Lair of the Shadow Broker, for example, didn't 'change' ME2 so that Liara's office is suddenly located on Omega instead of Illium, or change the squad makeup so that she can be recruited permanently, or what have you. What it did, for the most part, was add new things to the game; new missions, new upgrades, new locations, new cutscenes, etc. The rest of the game, however, is already "set in stone", so to speak. To tortuously extend the metaphor, under most circumstances the most you can do with DLC is pile stuff on top of that stone, but not change the stone itself.

So I figure...if we see Jack - or any other former squadmate, come to that - it's going to be in something that sort of happens off and to the side of the game's main plot structure. A new mission, a new cutscene or what have you. I imagine the odds of seeing her inserted into one of the missions or cutscenes that are already in the game are, unfortunately, probably slim to none.

If no one has to say something unique to her during missions, they can add her as a squamate and keep her attitude (and p.o.v. on things) withotu changing anything in the scripted scenes/dialogues. They just need to add dialogue lines said by Courtenay Taylor where there are the other squadmates' parts. It's not impossible.

Even without that, I'll be satisfied by a LotSB-like DLC that adds new content and put Jack in the middle of the "pack". Like, for example, Taking Back Omega: they can make Jack express her desire to do just one more mission with you before returning to her students, and put a last moment of intimacy right at the end of the DLC, just like Liara had his LI moment even if she wasn't even in ME2. 

I see that as completely feasible, and a Take Back Omega DLC would appeal to everyone: those who don't like Jack could say "no" to her or something along those lines, and nobody gets hurt. 

For now, anyway, I'm just looking forward for the EC. I had (and still have) a lot of expectations from this particular "fix it" DLC, but honestly, if they'll add more Jack they can do whatever the hell they want with the endings. Gimme the opportunity to be with Jack, actually show me this happening, and I'll be okay with everything else. Everything. (if they give me a scene with Jack saying some lines in her own unique style and reuniting with Shepard, I'll give the Catalyst a kiss on the forehead dammit).

[Padt]

 While we're on the subject of ME3, I'm gonna write a little something here now, which is only really peripherally related to Jack, and only in the sense that it relates to all the squadmates from the previous game. Feel free to ignore this, if you like. It's bound to be a bunch of nonsensical rambling, and probably of not much interest to many people.

Prior to the release of ME3, here's how I honestly thought the game was going to play out in regards to your squad: at the beginning of the game, you would get something resembling a base, "skeleton" squad. Say maybe Liara, Vega, Garrus, Tali and the Virmire Survivor. Five members, the smallest squad of any ME game to date, but just about versatile enough to get you through most situations that the game could throw at you.

Then, just as the "spine" of ME2 revolved around recruiting squadmates and then helping them sort through personal issues via loyalty missions, the spine of ME3 would revolve around Shepard traveling across the galaxy, teaming up with former squadmates (who would essentially join up as temporary squadmates) for a few missions, then perhaps leaving them behind for whatever reason that could be considered germane to the squadmate or the situation - maybe the former squadmate would stay behind in order to secure alliances against the Reapers, maybe they would have personal business to take care of after helping Shepard. It doesn't matter. The point is, the ME3 squad would essentially work as a "revolving door" of sorts. The basic five - the new character and the fan-favorites - would always be there, yes, but pretty much everyone who has ever fought alongside you before would get to pitch in and do so again, at least for a little while. They could hang out on the Normandy for the duration of those missions, as well, and you could go talk to them after every mission just as you did in previous games.

So, basically: have to do some missions on Tuchanka? Maybe Grunt and/or Wrex are there, and they can join up with you for old times' sake, lend a hand. Have to do some missions in the Terminus Systems? Maybe you can contact Zaeed, who knows the terrain well, and he'll help you out. Have to do some missions against Cerberus? Hit up Miranda and/or Jacob, they can give you the goods. Have to do some missions on Kahje? Thane is sure to be around and he can do something for you. And so on and so forth. And in case a former squadmate can't temporarily join you because they died in a previous game - no muss, no fuss. Just choose someone from the "skeleton" squad. Maybe Vega can fill in for Grunt. Maybe Liara can fill in for Samara or Jack. And so it goes. But this way, you have a greater incentive to keep as many squadmates alive in your playthroughs, beyond just getting an increase in War Assets. You can make your squad a little richer and more varied, and you can hang out and fight alongside your old friends again, at least for a while.

I think this probably could've worked as the best of both worlds. You get to have all of your old squadmates back, but you also don't get penalized with a cripplingly small squad in case you were too much of an idiot lost too many people in previous games. And hell, maybe you could use this little game structure as a method for some character work and development on your old squadmates. Maybe this is how Jacob could meet the Cerberus scientists that he wants to protect, and that would be the reason why he can't join you after his missions are over. Maybe this is how Jack would get to meet the Grissom Academy students and decide to become a teacher. Maybe this is how Grunt would rise to the top of the krogan food chain and become the leader of Aralakh Company. Maybe this is how you could find a cure for Thane...you get my point. And since the former squadmates are hanging out with you on the Normandy again, you could also take the opportunity to really squeeze out some interaction with them. Say each squadmate joins you for 1-3 missions. You could have a new conversation unlock after each of those missions, just like in ME2, and if the squadmate is also a love interest, maybe they could have a love scene in there just prior to leaving the ship.

I don't know. Maybe it would have been a little too costly and work-intensive for ME3 to play out like this. Each character would probably need to have a lot more dialogue, and naturally, also be developed as a combat-ready squadmate (that is, with their own power sets, weapon proficiencies, etc.). At the very least, I imagine it would have made ME3 a lengthier game. But I think it could've been fun. A little more dynamic, a little more interesting.

Modifié par Padt, 18 juin 2012 - 04:07 .

[Padt]

Jonata wrote...

If no one has to say something unique to her during missions, they can add her as a squamate and keep her attitude (and p.o.v. on things) withotu changing anything in the scripted scenes/dialogues. They just need to add dialogue lines said by Courtenay Taylor where there are the other squadmates' parts. It's not impossible.

Like I said, guy, I'm just relaying what Weekes said. People proposed more or less the same thing you're saying with Chronos Station and adding Jack or Miranda in there, as well as with changing Thane's death. He said things like that are far too difficult or impossible to do, at least now that the game is structured and completed. I note that he stressed that it wouldn't be impossible for us to ever see more content with those characters, but it'd have to be in something new (new missions, etc.). It's unlikely to happen in what's already in the game.

[Premier Bromanov]

That's how it was supposed to work, Padt. Bioware mentioned that you would have a backbone squad that can be larger or smaller depending on who's dead. The rest of your squad would consist of characters who, assuming they're alive, would join you based on your progress in the game.

We didn't get this. It was changed. I bought ME3 because I assumed my squad would be dynamic. I guessed wrong, and I got stuck with people I don't care about.

EDIT: And I think this is why ME3 feels so hollow to me.  Squadmates I don't care about, sidequests that pad the length of the game, ME2 squadmates getting ME3'd, stuff that sounded cool but was removed due to contraints, and other grievances.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 17 juin 2012 - 12:36 .

[Jonata]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

EDIT: And I think this is why ME3 feels so hollow to me.  Squadmates I don't care about, sidequests that pad the length of the game, ME2 squadmates getting ME3'd, stuff that sounded cool but was removed due to contraints, and other grievances.

Although, Jack scenes are still worth a playthrough, just like many other ME2 moments like Grunt's "fake death moment" and everything involving Mordin. 

It goes without saying that they absolutely need to implement some kind of additional content including the ME2 squadmates. They are the one making the game something truely enjoyable, even if not at the unmatchable standards of the previous one.

Mass Effect 3 stands quite right on his own sometimes (Javik, for example, is a very good newcomer) but we just need more ME2. 

And more Jack. MOOOORE JACK.

[yejo]

Well after playing through Mass Effect 3 a couple of times (3 or so) i kinda went back to ME2 and although the Melee thing is infinitly better in ME3 than in ME2.
I am kinda happy to be going though ME2 all over again just going through the missions again with Jack as a permanent squaddy is just a blast.
Okay the story of ME 3 is just one gigantic rollercoaster of epicness it just (for me at least feels like you hit a brick wall as soon as you land on earth and that really sours the entire game for me.
they should have took more time to create this game and made the battle for earth truly epic.
Also they should have implemented the squadmates of ME 2 much more.
I don't mind 1 or 2 of them dying if it is contributing to the story.
B ut i don't get why they would take the characters from ME1 and give them such a big part to play even tho the entire storyline of ME1 is way more focused on well Saren Sovereign and sheperd.
ME2 was all about the squad people that really grew on me and truly felt a connection with (be it positive or negative).
Loved spending time on the engineering sub deck trying to get Jack to open up to me plus bringing her along on every mission to hear her 2 cents about what was happening.
dont get me wrong i liked Garrus, Tali, Ashley, Kaiden and Liara just as much as the next guy but somehow them being the main crew just doesnt do it for me.
I would have liked the oppertunity to hang out with Jack again aswell as zaeed grunt and miranda hell any squaddy from ME 2 was cool in his or her own way (even if i did send thane into the vents more than once).
But now i am stuck with some prothy the prothian spitefull piece of **** that i actually deleted the dlc from harddrive even tho i did get it free with the collectors edition.
I am actually glad that the protheans were wiped out now and would have loved to see Jack put her fist right through that four eyed freaky head of his.
I wish that somehow they implented the ME2 squaddies into ME3 (and not all those Multiplayer packs).
But untill then my sheperd is gonna keep having an empty bed during the final trip because Jack is god knows where.
and i am going back to ME2 to just have a blast with the BEST WRITTEN VIDEOGAME CHARACTER EVER (Jack) and some properly awesome ones.

[Jonata]

yejo wrote...
But i don't get why they would take the characters from ME1 and give them such a big part to play even tho the entire storyline of ME1 is way more focused on well Saren Sovereign and sheperd.
.

This is so true. There are a lot of ME1 apologist here on the BSN (and that's probably why the ME2 squad was put so much aside during the development of ME3) but I don't understand what is their point when it comes to the characters. It goes without saying that the ME1 team was less developed than the ME2 one: the first game it's about Shepard battle against Saren, the Geth and Sovereign, it's more focused on explaining the general traits of the Galaxy/the Reapers' threat/Shepard than anything else. 

On the other hand, ME2 is all about the squad. Remember ME2 marketing? A big picture of the squad with the tagline: "Fight For The Lost". It's not "Save the Galaxy", and not even the (much mocked) "Take Earth Back". It's "fight for your squad". You can't make a 70 hours long game only to develop (awesome) characters and then put them aside because your official forum was full of apologist, 90% of which didn't even have clever ideas on why the ME1 team was better (disclaimer: offcourse gameplay and storyline are completely different topics. I have my opinions about those but I'm not talking about ME1 related things right now, just characters). 

Gali and Tarrus become so much deeper thanks to their development in ME2 (they were great characters back in the first game, but offcourse the very nature of ME2 helped develop them in a more complex way). Liara was a bisexual damsell-in-distress, so I can see why people like her, but Jack is fairly better developed.

In the end, I just want to repeat (and I will keep repeating this) that Jack was absolutely some of the best characters in a Sci-Fi franchise, with an overarching character evolution that has no match. I can see no logical reason beside fanservice for putting her aside.

PS: for those of you tired of Liara "forced romance", I'm doing my Insanity run these days and with the appropriate Renegade options it seems that you can keep the Asari at proper distance. The only problem with this is that Shepard doesn't get to talk with anyone else about his nightmares/stress, so he just keeps it all for himself (and offcourse the flashback doesn't changes). Another reason to hope for an intimate scene with Jack...

Modifié par Jonata, 17 juin 2012 - 03:15 .

[lillitheris]

Jonata wrote...

In the end, I just want to repeat (and I will keep repeating this) that Jack was absolutely some of the best characters in a Sci-Fi franchise, with an overarching character evolution that has no match. I can see no logical reason beside fanservice for putting her aside.

Your bolded part is the mistake you’re making.

[Jonata]

lillitheris wrote...

Jonata wrote...

In the end, I just want to repeat (and I will keep repeating this) that Jack was absolutely some of the best characters in a Sci-Fi franchise, with an overarching character evolution that has no match. I can see no logical reason beside fanservice for putting her aside.

Your bolded part is the mistake you’re making.

Logical reasoning?