Damn I'll discover this one week after the rest of the world (I'm European, with only a PS3 copy of ME3...) and I'm so sick of it. I'll have to read a hundred pages of reaction to see how the BSN will explode when the EC hits.
I'm hoping for Jack, anyway, and I'm not gonna spoil anything about it until the 4th of July.
"Hello Dead People!": The Jackolyte Society
Débuté par
Slurms McKenzie
, juin 13 2011 05:28
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#6502
Posté 24 juin 2012 - 05:28
Nightfable
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#6504
Posté 24 juin 2012 - 11:18
Premier Bromanov
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Nightfable wrote...
http://the-joeblack....elect-310299147
%20http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/175/9/4/mass_effect_3_dlc_character_select_by_the_joeblack-d54qscr.jpg%20
I wish. I can't tell you how many times I've stared with disappointment and total disinterest at the ME3 squad screen.
#6505
Posté 24 juin 2012 - 01:45
Jonata
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Nightfable wrote...
http://the-joeblack....elect-310299147
%20http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/175/9/4/mass_effect_3_dlc_character_select_by_the_joeblack-d54qscr.jpg%20
Well, Joker (how can he even fight?), Eve and Anderson are a little bit out of place but at least that would be a squad worthy of selection.
Right now, I just chose Javik as a default option and usually the game has already locked a character for the mission, so there's not much to do.
Modifié par Jonata, 24 juin 2012 - 04:34 .
#6506
Posté 24 juin 2012 - 03:33
vX-INSANIAC-Xv
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Nightfable wrote...
http://the-joeblack....elect-310299147
Even though this has Jack in it it's still missing Grunt and Wrex
#6507
Posté 24 juin 2012 - 08:50
Dr. Doctor
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I miss Jack and Miranda. Miranda's Cerberus Tactician ability gave a 15% health bonus to the squad and made Jack a lot less fragile, Overload could deal with shields, and then Warp let Jack blow things up with biotic explosions. Meanwhile, Jack's Shockwave and Pull abilities were great for crowd control and Squad Warp Ammo gave the squad a 35% weapons damage bonus that stacked with Miranda's passive buffs.
They might hate each other but they make a really good team.
They might hate each other but they make a really good team.
#6508
Posté 24 juin 2012 - 08:53
Shaleist
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vX-INSANIAC-Xv wrote...
Nightfable wrote...
http://the-joeblack....elect-310299147
%20http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/175/9/4/mass_effect_3_dlc_character_select_by_the_joeblack-d54qscr.jpg%20
Even though this has Jack in it it's still missing Grunt and Wrex
I love Wrex... but it would be awesome to see what Bakara has in her bag of tricks as the token Krogan too.
#6509
Posté 24 juin 2012 - 09:02
babymoon
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That squad selection screen... I wish...
I loved Jack's new look in ME3 so much, I wanted to cry that I wasn't able to recruit her. I miss her so much
I loved Jack's new look in ME3 so much, I wanted to cry that I wasn't able to recruit her. I miss her so much
#6510
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 01:02
Jonata
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Just sharing my thoughts at 3 A.M. in the morning after a couple of beers, before I'll go silent for a week or so (until I'll get the chance to play the EC unspoiled, that is). I was thinking about Jack and the ME3 endings.
When playing ME2, I always thought that one of Jack's past saddest moments was the death of Murtock. All the scars she had before were kind of physical, they were painful but she knew how to cope with pain at that point... Murtock, instead, gave her a very much deeper scar, the kind of scar that can stick with you for your entire life.
I think that overcoming that scar is one of the crucial point of Jack's relationship with Shepard, one of the most powerful things that help Jack defeat her demons is the fact that she finally found someone to be with that will not use her or -which I think it's even worse than that- leave her alone, struggling in front of a post-mortem love declaration.
During multiple ME2 walktroughs, sometimes the relationship between Jack and Shep made me smile at that point, thinking something like "Jack, your new boyfriend once defeated a Lovecraftian Elder God and came back from the dead... I think he's kind of a safe bet."
[Another thing that shows how carefully ME2 characters and relationships were crafted... you could feel every aspect of it, you could really fill every single missing moment with imagination if you were good enough, because everything you needed to know about those characters and their minds was all there, all canon, all awesome.]
Then, ME ending came, and messed everything up. First time I played, I was tired and confused, and I chose Synthesis. Then I thought about it, and I started to think about Jack.
Sure, she's all grown up in ME3, I think she's much stronger than during her emotional breaktrough at the end of ME2, she has her students to care for and she does kind of approach the topic of Shepard's death without frowning ("Stay alive, ******"), but is this enough to be another Murtock for her? To let Shepard be just another disappointment in her life?
I don't think so. One can say that the Galaxy is much more important than one man/woman's feelings, but my opionion is that nothing is bigger and more important than a man/woman's heart.
Using this rule, let's look at the big picture: The Reapers caused an incalculable amount of pain during thousands of Cycles, preserving life using math. If we look at the Mass Effect as a living Universe, instead of a game, how many people have suffered because the Catalyst is trying to "preserve organic life"? How many boyfriends melted in tubes, how many Commanders killing their own crew because of Indoctrination (Javik's story)?
F*** their mathematical reasoning, I say. I think BioWare would like the player to feel guilty about the Geth and EDI, but actually, I blame the Catalyst for their deaths. I would feel much more guilty knowing that a beautiful character like Jack got scr***d once again because of my decisions. My Shepard will not become another Murtock, surely not because an AI out of control thinks that he's "preserving" people melting their family and that one day far away toasters will kill everyone.
Food for thought. See ya soon fellow Jackolytes.
When playing ME2, I always thought that one of Jack's past saddest moments was the death of Murtock. All the scars she had before were kind of physical, they were painful but she knew how to cope with pain at that point... Murtock, instead, gave her a very much deeper scar, the kind of scar that can stick with you for your entire life.
I think that overcoming that scar is one of the crucial point of Jack's relationship with Shepard, one of the most powerful things that help Jack defeat her demons is the fact that she finally found someone to be with that will not use her or -which I think it's even worse than that- leave her alone, struggling in front of a post-mortem love declaration.
During multiple ME2 walktroughs, sometimes the relationship between Jack and Shep made me smile at that point, thinking something like "Jack, your new boyfriend once defeated a Lovecraftian Elder God and came back from the dead... I think he's kind of a safe bet."
[Another thing that shows how carefully ME2 characters and relationships were crafted... you could feel every aspect of it, you could really fill every single missing moment with imagination if you were good enough, because everything you needed to know about those characters and their minds was all there, all canon, all awesome.]
Then, ME ending came, and messed everything up. First time I played, I was tired and confused, and I chose Synthesis. Then I thought about it, and I started to think about Jack.
Sure, she's all grown up in ME3, I think she's much stronger than during her emotional breaktrough at the end of ME2, she has her students to care for and she does kind of approach the topic of Shepard's death without frowning ("Stay alive, ******"), but is this enough to be another Murtock for her? To let Shepard be just another disappointment in her life?
I don't think so. One can say that the Galaxy is much more important than one man/woman's feelings, but my opionion is that nothing is bigger and more important than a man/woman's heart.
Using this rule, let's look at the big picture: The Reapers caused an incalculable amount of pain during thousands of Cycles, preserving life using math. If we look at the Mass Effect as a living Universe, instead of a game, how many people have suffered because the Catalyst is trying to "preserve organic life"? How many boyfriends melted in tubes, how many Commanders killing their own crew because of Indoctrination (Javik's story)?
F*** their mathematical reasoning, I say. I think BioWare would like the player to feel guilty about the Geth and EDI, but actually, I blame the Catalyst for their deaths. I would feel much more guilty knowing that a beautiful character like Jack got scr***d once again because of my decisions. My Shepard will not become another Murtock, surely not because an AI out of control thinks that he's "preserving" people melting their family and that one day far away toasters will kill everyone.
Food for thought. See ya soon fellow Jackolytes.
Modifié par Jonata, 25 juin 2012 - 01:23 .
#6511
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 01:23
Premier Bromanov
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I don't think Jack would appreciate the effects of the Synthesis ending (whatever the hell they are - we'll find out soon, I guess?). I think it'd be too reminiscent of what happened to her at Teltin - violation of the absolute authority she has over her own body. The difference, I guess, would be that Shepard made the decision, and not some crazed Cerberus scientists, but she wouldn't have Shepard around to explain just what the heck happened to her. And no, I'm not trying to start a ****storm about the legitimacy of the endings. This is just a look at how Jack might respond to each one.
#6512
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 01:44
spirosz
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Remember her line on Legion's LM? Let me die as me - I think that represents how she would feel towards that outcome.
#6513
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 01:48
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
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I love that line. Down with Synthesis!spiros9110 wrote...
Remember her line on Legion's LM? Let me die as me - I think that represents how she would feel towards that outcome.
#6514
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 01:55
Premier Bromanov
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I'm not going to bother with the EC, but I'm waiting to see exactly what the Destroy ending entails before I start to look at how it might affect Jack, and her relationship with Shepard, if she has one. Control too, I guess, since we don't know exactly what becomes of Shepard as the outcome.
EDIT: And let's not get in to a debate about the merits of the endings. Like I said, this is an analysis of how the different endings might affect Jack, and her relationship with Shepard, if she has one.
EDIT: And let's not get in to a debate about the merits of the endings. Like I said, this is an analysis of how the different endings might affect Jack, and her relationship with Shepard, if she has one.
Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 25 juin 2012 - 01:56 .
#6515
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 04:14
Shaleist
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We'll see. As far as I'm concerned, surviving the Destroy ending and having a life after the Reaper Wars is a bonus. If you aren't fighting a war for survival purposes... then you're doing it wrong.
#6516
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 04:32
Ilzairspar
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So, I got myself my own personal version of Jack/Shep headcannon and was able to stay away from the forum for a few weeks. Then, due to a internet/phone outage almost two weeks ago I have been playing Fallout 3 again and had completely forgotten about this game and all the ulcer inducing aspects of ME3's story. Then someone told me the EC was coming out..
Hi I'm back and freaking out about Tuesday. Are there any interesting topics on Jack that we haven't talked to death yet?
Hi I'm back and freaking out about Tuesday. Are there any interesting topics on Jack that we haven't talked to death yet?
#6517
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 04:38
Padt
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This is gonna sound strange, but I think the much-maligned vague and open-ended fashion in which the current endings are presented can, in a certain sense, be regarded as a..."benefit in disguise", of sorts. The key lies in the fact that the current endings provide little to no detail on what happens to the galaxy after Shepard's final decision, thus allowing players to headcanon things away more or less to their liking. You can imagine that once that final decision has taken effect, the lives of your Shepard and/or their loved ones go in this direction or that direction and that this thing or that other thing happens to the galaxy, and you're more or less free to do so with impunity.
But come Tuesday...well, come Tuesday we're going to be getting some details, ostensibly pulling back the curtain of vagueness to observe a more concrete version of the result of our decisions, and it occurs to me now that once we do that we may not like what we find. Take the best possible Destroy ending, for example, and I use this one chiefly because I'm almost convinced that it's the one most people who've finished the game chose when first presented with the three alternatives. Shepard can survive in this ending, as can his or her squad and love interest of choice. A reunion seems feasible, and thus the possibility of a much yearned-for "happy ending", one stamped with the coveted seal of approval of in-game canon.
But in this ending the geth (who, we should add, may be helping the quarians rebuild and better the state of their society back on Rannoch) will have been destroyed in what essentially amounts to a form of mass-scale genocide, and at the end of the day, the underlying reason for the Reapers' existence and necessity - the "propensity towards chaos", as the Catalyst puts it - remains even as the Reapers themselves are wiped away. And with the Extended Cut, we may well be in for learning the long term effects of all of that (and more). For all we know, the "new", more detailed version of the Destroy ending could present us an exceedingly bleak outlook for Shepard, the quarians and/or the galaxy's future. Perhaps we'll see epilogues detailing that a few decades or centuries after the time setting of ME3 new synthetic life will be created, and it too will inevitably rebel and eventually destroy organic life. Perhaps we'll see cutscenes indicating that quarian society will eventually break down without the aid of the geth. Perhaps we'll see certain other bad things happen to Shepard that will wipe away the prospects of that happy ending. And perhaps we'll see other things.
We don't know yet, naturally. But it could happen, is my point, and this is all a roundabout way of saying that in this instance more details may...not quite be a good thing, necessarily. It does make me wonder if perhaps we're in for a "be careful what you wish for" type of situation.
(I was gonna write about Jack here as well, and about what I think her perspective on the three choices would be, but this post is running far too long as it is. I'll leave it for my next post)
But come Tuesday...well, come Tuesday we're going to be getting some details, ostensibly pulling back the curtain of vagueness to observe a more concrete version of the result of our decisions, and it occurs to me now that once we do that we may not like what we find. Take the best possible Destroy ending, for example, and I use this one chiefly because I'm almost convinced that it's the one most people who've finished the game chose when first presented with the three alternatives. Shepard can survive in this ending, as can his or her squad and love interest of choice. A reunion seems feasible, and thus the possibility of a much yearned-for "happy ending", one stamped with the coveted seal of approval of in-game canon.
But in this ending the geth (who, we should add, may be helping the quarians rebuild and better the state of their society back on Rannoch) will have been destroyed in what essentially amounts to a form of mass-scale genocide, and at the end of the day, the underlying reason for the Reapers' existence and necessity - the "propensity towards chaos", as the Catalyst puts it - remains even as the Reapers themselves are wiped away. And with the Extended Cut, we may well be in for learning the long term effects of all of that (and more). For all we know, the "new", more detailed version of the Destroy ending could present us an exceedingly bleak outlook for Shepard, the quarians and/or the galaxy's future. Perhaps we'll see epilogues detailing that a few decades or centuries after the time setting of ME3 new synthetic life will be created, and it too will inevitably rebel and eventually destroy organic life. Perhaps we'll see cutscenes indicating that quarian society will eventually break down without the aid of the geth. Perhaps we'll see certain other bad things happen to Shepard that will wipe away the prospects of that happy ending. And perhaps we'll see other things.
We don't know yet, naturally. But it could happen, is my point, and this is all a roundabout way of saying that in this instance more details may...not quite be a good thing, necessarily. It does make me wonder if perhaps we're in for a "be careful what you wish for" type of situation.
(I was gonna write about Jack here as well, and about what I think her perspective on the three choices would be, but this post is running far too long as it is. I'll leave it for my next post)
Modifié par Padt, 25 juin 2012 - 05:28 .
#6518
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 04:41
Shaleist
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Padt wrote...
But come Tuesday...well, come Tuesday we're going to be getting some
details, ostensibly pulling back the curtain of vagueness to observe a
more concrete version of the result of our decisions, and it occurs to
me now that once we do that we may not like what we find.
Yup. They could pull a "Thane" out of their asses on us.
#6519
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 04:49
SlottsMachine
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I don't see them doing that, it would do more damage than flat out ignoring Jack. But I guess the EC could turn out to be the biggest trolling of all time.
Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 25 juin 2012 - 04:50 .
#6520
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 04:54
Ilzairspar
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Shaleist wrote...
Padt wrote...
But come Tuesday...well, come Tuesday we're going to be getting some
details, ostensibly pulling back the curtain of vagueness to observe a
more concrete version of the result of our decisions, and it occurs to
me now that once we do that we may not like what we find.
Yup. They could pull a "Thane" out of their asses on us.
Thank you for voicing my greatest fear. I have this horrid thought that they will pull a "hey you survived, but you know what... Jack didn't. Now you can think of EDI and the Geth and all those others you sacrificed so you could come back alive. So you can be alone. Tootles!... oh and buy our pay DLC"
I'm allowed now to have the headcannon of Starbrat talking out of his @ss and Destroy only killing the reapers and really messing you up.
Modifié par Ilzairspar, 25 juin 2012 - 04:54 .
#6521
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 06:10
His Name was HYR!!
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Premier Bromanov wrote...
I don't think Jack would appreciate the effects of the Synthesis ending (whatever the hell they are - we'll find out soon, I guess?). I think it'd be too reminiscent of what happened to her at Teltin - violation of the absolute authority she has over her own body. The difference, I guess, would be that Shepard made the decision, and not some crazed Cerberus scientists, but she wouldn't have Shepard around to explain just what the heck happened to her. And no, I'm not trying to start a ****storm about the legitimacy of the endings. This is just a look at how Jack might respond to each one.
What gets to me is the fact that people approach synthesis in discussion assuming the change is bad, consciously or not. Not good, not even neutral. The funny part is though, what little evidence is out there on the outcome is actually good. At the end of the day, people's criticism of the path is two things: hysteria, and caricture.
At the end of the day, there are huge positive upsides to take away from harnessing AI tech. Rewards well worth the risk.
When I think of Jack, I think of how the change can bring about a solution to her implants causing neural degeneration. Maybe it's too much to ask. Or maybe, she will see the problem solved in her lifetime before the issue becomes severe. I'm thinking of her, and everyone, when I choose green. I don't care what critics try to deduce the decision to, it's not so simple as they are stuck in thinking.
#6522
Guest_Sundown Native_*
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 08:32
Guest_Sundown Native_*
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Question. I'm just now realizing that Jack doesn't show up on the Purgatory map after you get the message about her being there.
This happening to anybody else, or...?
This happening to anybody else, or...?
#6523
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 03:11
The Naga
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HYR 2.0 wrote...
Premier Bromanov wrote...
I don't think Jack would appreciate the effects of the Synthesis ending (whatever the hell they are - we'll find out soon, I guess?). I think it'd be too reminiscent of what happened to her at Teltin - violation of the absolute authority she has over her own body. The difference, I guess, would be that Shepard made the decision, and not some crazed Cerberus scientists, but she wouldn't have Shepard around to explain just what the heck happened to her. And no, I'm not trying to start a ****storm about the legitimacy of the endings. This is just a look at how Jack might respond to each one.
What gets to me is the fact that people approach synthesis in discussion assuming the change is bad, consciously or not. Not good, not even neutral. The funny part is though, what little evidence is out there on the outcome is actually good. At the end of the day, people's criticism of the path is two things: hysteria, and caricture.
At the end of the day, there are huge positive upsides to take away from harnessing AI tech. Rewards well worth the risk.
When I think of Jack, I think of how the change can bring about a solution to her implants causing neural degeneration. Maybe it's too much to ask. Or maybe, she will see the problem solved in her lifetime before the issue becomes severe. I'm thinking of her, and everyone, when I choose green. I don't care what critics try to deduce the decision to, it's not so simple as they are stuck in thinking.
Interesting. I think that's an interesting take on the positive side of synthesis.
For me, I honestly felt that synthesis was perhaps the more artistically beautiful of the endings. It ushered in a new era of life to the galaxy, a new kind of hope, and forever altered the path of the universe. It represented a new beginning (which they were keen to imply with the whole Adam/Eve type of picture at the end). Your character, in a way, actually lives on in everything, as its is your essence which was absorbed by the catalyst. And then for good measure, the ending also turns Legion's sacrifice into a piece of foreshadowing.
It's not all that bad of an ending, in my opinion, and I really get the impression that it's Bioware's favorite of the three.
HOWEVER.
All of that being said, I chose destroy for three reasons:
- First, I didn't trust the catalyst or the reapers.
- Second, I had spent 3 games yearning for the opportunity to destroy the reapers, and I wasn't going to let the one who controls them convince me otherwise.
- Lastly... for Jack.
Jack was the reason I chose to destroy the reapers. I think it happened after the encounter in Shepard's cabin before the ME2 suicide mission, but somewhere along the line I started fighting for Jack. She became the representation of the fight and why it was worth trying in the face of such seemingly unbearable odds. She deserved a chance, she deserved love, and I wasn't about to f*ck that up by getting myself killed if there was a chance we could still be together.
Will the cycle of synthetic rebellion and chaos eventually continue?... yeah, possibly. Was it selfish of me to choose destroy? ... on the grand scale, maybe a bit. But I don't care. That romance deserved a chance.
I did that for her. I bent the arc of the universe for Jack. I wrote "I love you" in the stars for her. Now that's f*cking romantic.
#6524
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 03:42
kumquats
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I will just play the ending three times with both my Shepards and then make a choice which one I want for them.
#6525
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 09:39
10K
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Sundown Native wrote...
Question. I'm just now realizing that Jack doesn't show up on the Purgatory map after you get the message about her being there.
This happening to anybody else, or...?
It happened to me as well I think its a glitch.
