7744 réponses à ce sujet

[l DryIce l]

spiros9110 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/patsquinade/status/90258605617586176

"Lots of old friends grow and change in ME3. Jack is one of my favorites now."

The one word that is worrying me - "now"  Why now, why not before?  Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the way people word somethings, I could just be reading into it too much.

Sound the alarms. 

[punchbag]

franciscoamell wrote...

Jack is my favorite character of all Bioware characters, and the most beautiful woman too, sadly she is kinda misunderstood.

Yes, yes she is all of that.
Although, while it's sad, the misunderstood thing increases my interest in her. It's all the shallow people that misunderstand her; the ones who are too superficial to see what's hidden behind her walls or to even understand why she puts them up.
So it sucks, but it sucks more for the players who hate Jack than it does for Jack as a character. They just don't know what they are missing out on. But hey, more Jack for the Jackolytes right? We can keep her all to our "selfish" selves.

Modifié par punchbag, 11 juillet 2011 - 05:40 .

[Epantiras]

spiros9110 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/patsquinade/status/90258605617586176

"Lots of old friends grow and change in ME3. Jack is one of my favorites now."

The one word that is worrying me - "now"  Why now, why not before?  Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the way people word somethings, I could just be reading into it too much.

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL OF THIS FORM.
DIRECT INTERVENTION IS NECESSARY.
ARMING CAIN.
LOADING THANNIX CANNON.
TESTING REACH AND FLEXIBILITY.

Guys I'm worried! I remember him saying in an interview that he DIDN'T LIKE Jack way back in ME2. www.gamebanshee.com/news/95010-bioware-writer-gives-his-take-on-subject-zero.html

"The simpler explanation is that I personally utterly loathe her
character. She presses a number of buttons I don't like in real-life
people, and she's written well enough that she comes off like a
real-life person -- a real-life person I detest."

This means they've changed her!

Like Liara in Lotsb: before playing that DLC, I wanted to Virmire her. After the DLC she's become one of my favourites: why? Because she's a paragade now. Many hardcore Liara fans didn't like that.

Now excuse me, I'll be hiding in my cellar with a tinfoil hat on my head.

[CroGamer002]

Oh God.

They might f*ck up Jack more then Ashley.

[Epantiras]

"I'll cancel my preorder!!!11one"
Ok I won't do that for real, but if they really f*ck her up I'll kill her in ME3. "Better die as me than being brainwashed". On the other hand, if her character developement is believable, then I'll be a happy owner of a Collector's Edition.

[CroGamer002]

^Oh I'll just start Legion loyalty just to get that best line in entire game.

[CroGamer002]

[Ulathar]

Mesina2 wrote...

Well put, Jack.

[StefanBW]

Totally different Jack it is then.

Yeah I'm a pessimist.

[CroGamer002]

Also why do Jack fan threads have so simple OP?

[GodWood]

yorkj86 wrote...
I'm looking for a non-meta-game reason, though. Shep's not walking down the stairs below Engineering while thinking to himself, "Okay, I have 3 conversations to win her heart before she starts the Calibrations bull**** on me."

Just like real life

Epantiras wrote...
Guys I'm worried! I remember him saying in an interview that he DIDN'T LIKE Jack way back in ME2. www.gamebanshee.com/news/95010-bioware-writer-gives-his-take-on-subject-zero.html

"The simpler explanation is that I personally utterly loathe her
character. She presses a number of buttons I don't like in real-life
people, and she's written well enough that she comes off like a
real-life person -- a real-life person I detest."

This means they've changed her!

Like Liara in Lotsb: before playing that DLC, I wanted to Virmire her. After the DLC she's become one of my favourites: why? Because she's a paragade now. Many hardcore Liara fans didn't like that.

Now excuse me, I'll be hiding in my cellar with a tinfoil hat on my head.

Yeah I convinced myself a while ago that I'm more then likely going to hate what Bioware turn her into.

They might surprise me but I doubt they will.

[KyreneZA]

yorkj86 wrote...

Shepard isn't privy to any of Jack's personal insight, on this matter.  Also, regardless of what he does for Jack, he's still insisting that she has an attraction to him.  Doing nice things for her doesn't turn "no" in to "yes."  It's only "yes" when she says "yes."

True, but Shepard also doesn't do nice things for her because he's the galaxy's biggest altruist either. He's either doing it because he wants something (her loyalty; not falling apart during the mission, etc) or because he wants something (he's become attracted to her). So yes, it's a bit creepy, but most romantic gambles are creepy anyway. That's what makes them romantic.

Do you even need to do Jack's loyalty mission, in order to romance her?

Yes. After the third pre-Horizon conversation she goes into 'calibrations' mode, and after Horizon hers is the first to get added, so you'll get the initial "must do my mission" and forever-after reminders to "must do my mission".

I therefore agree that by the time he's calling her (a liar?) out, Shepard has been/seen what made her so ****ed up, seen/helped her walls come down a little, seen/helped her miconceptions about what happened to her be washed away a little, and has enough insight to take that romantic gamble he does. If she wasn't interested, the "You're lying" would have earned him a wall smear. It does not. Bad writing, or Shepard seeing the truth and calling her on it (even if in an uncalled for manner)?

[KyreneZA]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/patsquinade/status/90258605617586176

"Lots of old friends grow and change in ME3. Jack is one of my favorites now."

Can we (who refuse to join parts of the YouTwitFace triumvate) have a quote in context?

I'd be okay with a little more paragon in my reneJack. Just like the paragade Liara is infinately more bearable now.

[KyreneZA]

yorkj86 wrote...

@Kyrene,

You've only restated the problem. 

That's a little bit dismissive, don't you think?

Jack says "No," and because she doesn't respond violently to him insisting, that makes his advances alright?  Implications unpleasant. 

The level of violence of her response is immaterial (granted, I used hyperbole in my argument) and should not be used as a straw man. Reduced it comes down to him respecting her saying "No," right?

Where does Shepard get off, treating this as a game, and Jack as someone to be poked and prodded until she yields a positive response? 

Does he really? Let's try an analogy: where does a GP get off, poking and prodding and making you say "Aaaah"? Yes, he's no psychologist, but at the very least he's entitled to prodding her as a friend/concerned individual at that point. It's very definately not a game to him.

Even if he does help Jack, he's not entitled to a positive response. 

It's not because of the response that he's doing it. The prodding is just more helping. Risky helping, but does one avoid the risk entirley and just let a broken/hurt person like Jack be, hoping she'll eventually 'snap out of it' by herself? Shepard is Jack's best therapist, and if he loves her/is interested in her at that point, he's the best protection against her past she could ever hope for. He won't allow her to wallow.

This is why I think the friendship path (if we can even call it that) is superior to, or, at the least, less creepy than, the romance path.

Where does the distinction come in? Only choosing neutral options in dialogue? Or only choosing it in that specific dialogue?

Glad we can agree that the whole thing is creepy.

No we don't. I think it's good creepy and you think it's bad.

[KyreneZA]

yorkj86 wrote...

@Kyrene,

One makes an appointment for a GP.  The act of making an appointment is done of one's volition.  One does not walk in to a GP's office unannounced.

Jack made that appointment (she opened that door by asking):

Jack: Shepard, you got feelings for me?

To which Shepard can respond in various ways (of which we got three options in the game). He can deny it, he can explain it as friendship, he can profess his undying love, he can profess needing to requisition cold showers, etc.

All of which is besides the point. Your question is: a) is it creepy is it incorrect for Shepard to "assume direct control" of the situation? And you answered yourself in your last post. Yes, it is. Probably more so as a friend, but definately not much less so as a potential lover. All of the prodding and creepyness is exactly what is needed to break through to Jack, as a friend or romantically interested party. To not prod and push would show apathy to her situation and that is far creepier.

[axl99]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/patsquinade/status/90258605617586176

"Lots of old friends grow and change in ME3. Jack is one of my favorites now."

Oh hey, that was from my last convo with him haha. Basically he mentioned how teammates can have as much convo as an LI: 

"ME3 also friendlier for folks not doing romance. Everyone should have more to say, even as friends."

Fan favourites Garrus and Tali were given subltle changes to their personality and even then it's not like they did a 180 like Liara or Ash.

Frankly if Jack stayed virtually the same in ME3, then there isn't enough character progression. By the end of ME2 she's had to deal with the last dregs of her past. And now the question here is, what will happen now that there's nothing holding her back anymore? It isn't her baggage that we tend to empathize with, it's how she struggles with it. She's had enough of that crap and she knows she needs to move on. 

And hell. Patrick wrote Mordin singing Gilbert and Sullivan. And now he's working on Jack. Would could POSSIBLY go wrong? We loved Jack's dark sense of humour when we brought her around with us. So hey, maybe a little more of that would be a good thing.

Modifié par axl99, 11 juillet 2011 - 02:35 .

[GodWood]

As much I like Weekes (he was a blast on the old forums) and as much as I love Mordin I'm not excited to see what he does with Jack.


He did write ME2 Tali after all (and I hated ME2 Tali)

[axl99]

As far as I know, all characters have multiple writers working on them. But until the new game's out, I'll just wait and see. Speculation's just gonna make a nervous wreck outta all of us.

[Frakking.Toaster]

Jack as FemShep LI kthnks plz.

[idoless24]

spiros9110 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/patsquinade/status/90258605617586176

"Lots of old friends grow and change in ME3. Jack is one of my favorites now."

The one word that is worrying me - "now"  Why now, why not before?  Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the way people word somethings, I could just be reading into it too much.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the people who didn't like Jack before affecting how she "changes".

[axl99]

I think you guys are reading into this way too much.