7744 réponses à ce sujet

[Padt]

The thing with Charge is that it's already a power that's available to Shepard. I think it'd be a little more fun if the powers were new, because that way you also have the possibility of making that power unlockable to the player, in the same way the loyalty powers in ME2 and squadmates' unique powers in ME3 worked. This is also how Liara's Stasis worked in Lair of the Shadow Broker. And since MP already has a whole swath of new powers (and weapons) that are not available in the single player campaign, I think it'd be sensible to give those to any temporary squadmates the game might feature via DLC, thus opening up the possibility to carry them over to single player.

(If we ever get a batarian squadmate, for example, perhaps in that Take Back Omega DLC that I often see rumored, it'd make sense for them to have the Blade Armor and Submission Net powers from the batarian classes in MP, and that those would then become available to Shepard after completing the DLC)

Modifié par Padt, 30 juin 2012 - 10:31 .

[vX-INSANIAC-Xv]

Concerning the Biotic charge for Jack, I think a better way would be for her not to have the normal Biotic charge that Vanguards do but instead compromise and combine some other already incorporated ideas. My idea would be for her to lock on and charge at a target much like charging krogan do but since she is no where near as heavy as a Krogan she would run much faster and when she gets to her target she can do her trademark Biotic punch. This would allow her to have a high powered move like the vanguards charge power but with far less strain on the AI and it would suit her character as we all know she likes to punch things, like Shepard for example.

An animation for this might actually already exist because one of the first things you see her do in ME2 on the purgatory prison ship is charge a group of heavy mechs with the intent on using a biotic punch on them. The move itself could react like Biotic Charge dealing instant impact damage and high physics force to knock enemies back but it would just be more "Jack" for lack of a better explanation.


P.S. Pirate Shepard and his first mate!

[Premier Bromanov]

I realized why I feel the Jack romance material in ME3 is so unsatisfying.  It's because it feels like the writers weren't taking it seriously.  I'll admit, that this may be a symptom, not the cause, because there's so little material in the first place, but I'll continue.

It feels like they weren't taking it seriously.  They were only pushing the sentiment that the relationship is wacky, and quirky, and unorthodox.  Yes, those things are true, and I do think those things make the relationship novel, but there's more to it than that.  There's the emotion we saw Jack pour out in front of Shepard in ME2.  That was important.  But there's none of that in ME3.  We have Jack giving Shepard "come hither" looks, and we have Jack sounding like she's trying to coax him in to her bed, but there's more. 

Feels empty.  Feels like the writers were treating it more as a science-fiction sitcom than a proper romance.  Feels like the romance was disrespected, or at least neglected, when other, major LIs received substantially more.

[spirosz]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

I realized why I feel the Jack romance material in ME3 is so unsatisfying.  It's because it feels like the writers weren't taking it seriously.  I'll admit, that this may be a symptom, not the cause, because there's so little material in the first place, but I'll continue.

It feels like they weren't taking it seriously.  They were only pushing the sentiment that the relationship is wacky, and quirky, and unorthodox.  Yes, those things are true, and I do think those things make the relationship novel, but there's more to it than that.  There's the emotion we saw Jack pour out in front of Shepard in ME2.  That was important.  But there's none of that in ME3.  We have Jack giving Shepard "come hither" looks, and we have Jack sounding like she's trying to coax him in to her bed, but there's more. 

Feels empty.  Feels like the writers were treating it more as a science-fiction sitcom than a proper romance.  Feels like the romance was disrespected, or at least neglected, when other, major LIs received substantially more.

I wouldn't want to say they added more emphasis on the physical aspect to appear to a wider audience, but that's how I feel.  Obviously, from a ME2 standpoint, we know that's there more to the romance than portrayed in ME3, but what can we do, speak louder than we already are, I doubt they'll put more content just for us.  

[KingNothing125]

While I agree that Jack's romantic material in ME3 is sorely lacking in quantity, I disagree that it's also lacking quality. Neglected, perhaps. Disrespected, no, I don't think so. Jacob was disrespected. Thane was arguably disrespected. Jack was not.

Their relationship IS quirky and unorthodox. Shep and Jack's relationship is summed up perfectly in the first scene they reunite. Jack socks him one, then plants an intensely passionate kiss on him. It says, "Get away from me, but come closer," a recurring theme from ME2, and one that continues to recur later on, when they're talking about "no strings, but if we both survive..."

She's not "fixed" entirely. It's only been a few months since the Collector base. A year at most. There are still trust issues and she's still "not good at this soft stuff." She's going to keep trying to push Shep away for her own sake, and for Shep's sake. She's not going to get all emotional on him in the middle of Purgatory or over vidcom on the battlefields of London (and presumably in front of her kids)... but good ol' Softy Jack peeks through when she says, "you make the best mistakes."

It's a process, and as long as Shep keeps getting closer after being pushed away, they will be together.

[Premier Bromanov]

I never said that Jack would be "fixed" by the time of ME3. She will be Jack for a long, long time. What I said is that it doesn't feel like the relationship was taken seriously, because there is more to it than being unorthodox, but the rest of it isn't addressed. It's clear that Jack won't reveal her emotions to Shepard in a public place, because she has that image to keep, but this just produces a need for a private scene, one that the romance didn't get, one that would have been perfect to receive after the meeting in Purgatory. As it is now, it feels like it was treated only as a wacky sitcom mismatched romance. It's a good thing that it had romance material in ME2.

[KingNothing125]

I agree that it needs a private scene, I just don't think the lack of one makes it seem like the relationship was played for laughs in ME3 (even though Jack is a funny lady).

EDIT: And I only made the "fixed" comment to lead into my comment that she's still got her barriers up and isn't going to discuss her feelings honestly in an open space. I didn't mean to imply that anyone thought she was already "fixed."

Modifié par KingNothing125, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:33 .

[fainmaca]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

I never said that Jack would be "fixed" by the time of ME3. She will be Jack for a long, long time. What I said is that it doesn't feel like the relationship was taken seriously, because there is more to it than being unorthodox, but the rest of it isn't addressed. It's clear that Jack won't reveal her emotions to Shepard in a public place, because she has that image to keep, but this just produces a need for a private scene, one that the romance didn't get, one that would have been perfect to receive after the meeting in Purgatory. As it is now, it feels like it was treated only as a wacky sitcom mismatched romance. It's a good thing that it had romance material in ME2.

I think the safest and most diplomatic thing to say is that the relationship wasn't done the justice it deserved.

I feel it was sorely lacking the depth that it had in ME2, and most of the depth we feel for the pairing in ME3 is only because we are familiar with Jack from the previous game. It shouldn't have to rely on our previous experience of the character to hold it up.

Then again, there was much about the story and its characters that i feel suffered from this. I think the Zero Punctuation review of ME3 summed it up best, but I won't quote that because it can be a bit crude and I don't want to offend. I'll sum it up by saying that ME1 was like the initial sprint at the start of a marathon, where you still need to find your rhythm and set a manageable pace, ME2 was the middle part where you still have energy reserves and you've got into the groove, but then ME3 is like the final few hundred yards where you're just so tired that form goes out of the window in favour of pure flailing to just get to the end by any means possible. And then the athlete collapses inches from the line and coughs up a lung.

[Dr. Doctor]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

I realized why I feel the Jack romance material in ME3 is so unsatisfying.  It's because it feels like the writers weren't taking it seriously.  I'll admit, that this may be a symptom, not the cause, because there's so little material in the first place, but I'll continue.

It feels like they weren't taking it seriously.  They were only pushing the sentiment that the relationship is wacky, and quirky, and unorthodox.  Yes, those things are true, and I do think those things make the relationship novel, but there's more to it than that.  There's the emotion we saw Jack pour out in front of Shepard in ME2.  That was important.  But there's none of that in ME3.  We have Jack giving Shepard "come hither" looks, and we have Jack sounding like she's trying to coax him in to her bed, but there's more. 

What's really missing is the "softer" Jack part of the romance. I was really hoping to see the side of her that we got in the ME2 love scene, not the part with her crying but where it's just Jack and Shepard. Having the two of them banter back and forth  on Grissom is great, but  the date with her at Purgatory isn't as good. 

Having her asking Shepard about staying together long-distance doesn't really make sense considering what happened at Grissom. Having Jack contemplating breaking it off with Shepard because she's afraid of having another Murtock on her hands would have worked a lot better. The major problem is that we only see her twice (not counting the holovid call at the end) so there's not that many lines to focus on character/relationship development.

[young fox]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Premier Bromanov wrote...

I realized why I feel the Jack romance material in ME3 is so unsatisfying.  It's because it feels like the writers weren't taking it seriously.  I'll admit, that this may be a symptom, not the cause, because there's so little material in the first place, but I'll continue.

It feels like they weren't taking it seriously.  They were only pushing the sentiment that the relationship is wacky, and quirky, and unorthodox.  Yes, those things are true, and I do think those things make the relationship novel, but there's more to it than that.  There's the emotion we saw Jack pour out in front of Shepard in ME2.  That was important.  But there's none of that in ME3.  We have Jack giving Shepard "come hither" looks, and we have Jack sounding like she's trying to coax him in to her bed, but there's more. 

What's really missing is the "softer" Jack part of the romance. I was really hoping to see the side of her that we got in the ME2 love scene, not the part with her crying but where it's just Jack and Shepard. Having the two of them banter back and forth  on Grissom is great, but  the date with her at Purgatory isn't as good. 

Having her asking Shepard about staying together long-distance doesn't really make sense considering what happened at Grissom. Having Jack contemplating breaking it off with Shepard because she's afraid of having another Murtock on her hands would have worked a lot better. The major problem is that we only see her twice (not counting the holovid call at the end) so there's not that many lines to focus on character/relationship development.

Now that you talk about about missing the soft side, I think one of the major problems was that we never really got a one-on-one chance with Jack. Shepard and Jack never get a private occassion to discuss things calmly - and while some of you might, I don't really call sitting in a sprawling club privacy, nor discussing briefly moments before the storm.

I also never really understood why Jack is so eager to break things off. Doesn't she mention it both at Grissom and at Afterlife? It seems somewhat out of character. She might have softened up, but I doubt she'd be gunning for a break-up so fast.

[KingNothing125]

I think all that stuff is there, but you have to read between the lines (which sucks, I agree. You shouldn't have to rely on ME2 for ME3 characterization. Need more Jack screen time). But...

She was going to get rid of her N7 tattoo and she wants to break up at Purgatory. It's not a stretch to think she's trying to get rid of you to spare herself more Murtock-style pain. But each time you pull her closer (literally, in the case of the Grissom shuttle), she's grateful and happy about it. The "softer" side is only hinted at, but it's there, "you make the best mistakes."

[Premier Bromanov]

Shouldn't have to "read between the lines" in the first place. There should have been a private scene between the two of them.

[Jonata]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

An Epantiras commission, based on an idea from this thread:

Ha! Was looking forward for something like that! The little comedy moments that are coming out of this thread are pure gold, they're just begging for a talented artist like Epantiras. (Her collaboration with Mondo, "Doors", is one of the best pieces of fan-art I have ever seen). 

PS: I love Shepard's face in the first panel!

[spirosz]

su66otnik wrote...

I also never really understood why Jack is so eager to break things off. Doesn't she mention it both at Grissom and at Afterlife? It seems somewhat out of character. She might have softened up, but I doubt she'd be gunning for a break-up so fast.

They do that break up with all the LI's, there's always a few chances - don't know why.  

[Premier Bromanov]

Yeah, you get several chances for an "out" with a LI. Sometimes, it doesn't even start the romance material after you've confirmed you don't want out. This happens with Liara, where she's calling you her friend even after you've told her you're still interested in a relationship with her. It's pretty clumsy. Even clumsier with Jack, because there are so few scenes, but she presents Shepard with an "out" in each one.  EDIT: I don't consider it in-game.  As in, canon.  I consider it a meta-thing, because it's so obviously there as a game mechanic.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 01 juillet 2012 - 02:15 .

[Jonata]

Premier Bromanov wrote...

Yeah, you get several chances for an "out" with a LI. Sometimes, it doesn't even start the romance material after you've confirmed you don't want out. This happens with Liara, where she's calling you her friend even after you've told her you're still interested in a relationship with her. It's pretty clumsy. Even clumsier with Jack, because there are so few scenes, but she presents Shepard with an "out" in each one.  EDIT: I don't consider it in-game.  As in, canon.  I consider it a meta-thing, because it's so obviously there as a game mechanic.

Well it can make sense canonically. Jack sure can be scared of being with Shepard because she's emotionally attached to someone that is constantly fighting wars all over the Galaxy. Maybe she's afraid of another Murtock and hides them with concerns about "distant relationship", and when Shepard reassures her, he actually knows what's behind and is reassuring that side of her.

Just speculatin'/headcanonin' a bit.

[LanceSolous13]

One thing I would like to point out, Jack doesn't even have a sex scene. Not saying this is all about sex, but she doesn't have that private intimate moment that other romances have. Actually, come to think of it, Miri is the only ME2 Romance to have a sex scene. She needed that clumination of her emotions.

Jack's romance was one of the better ones from ME2. She doesn't go to Shepard's Cabin for sex or anything. She goes there because she needs comfort; she needs someone who cares. Its left completely ambiguious if they even had sex by the end of the night. That's EXACTLY what I liked about it. The strong female character with leather straps for a top and doesn't give a **** about anyone, Is the one with the most emotional romance.

I think that, using whats already there, The dance should have been Romance Spesific. Otherwise, You just buy her drinks and get drunk together as friends.

[LanceSolous13]

Exactly. That is enitrely something that can be left to interpretation.

[royceclemens]

Jonata wrote...

Well it can make sense canonically. Jack sure can be scared of being with Shepard because she's emotionally attached to someone that is constantly fighting wars all over the Galaxy. Maybe she's afraid of another Murtock and hides them with concerns about "distant relationship", and when Shepard reassures her, he actually knows what's behind and is reassuring that side of her.

Just speculatin'/headcanonin' a bit.

Or maybe it's because Jack is a grown-up now, and holding somone to an iron clad relationship after six months of not seeing them is kind of unrealistic.  That she realizes that, I think, speaks well of Jack's maturation.  And after all, though Shepard may be very important to her, he's not the only thing in her life.

Hell, all the female LIs in the game are cool with it if you decide to break it off (with the queen of the amicable break-up being Tali).  Well, Miranda isn't, but she's kind of a special case. 

Modifié par royceclemens, 01 juillet 2012 - 05:02 .

[Premier Bromanov]

Hey, it's royce. Hi.

[royceclemens]

Yes. I have returned from my meditations to provide my analysis of all things Jack.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

It was good to see Jack in the flashback scenes.


The next scene I saw of her had her standing at what looked like a cemetery. What did you surviving Shepards get?

[royceclemens]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

It was good to see Jack in the flashback scenes.


The next scene I saw of her had her standing at what looked like a cemetery. What did you surviving Shepards get?

I think you only get the cemetery slide if you chose to have the students go to the frontline instead of using them as support.  Those graves are occupied by her students.  If you chose them for support, she's back on Grissom, looking at her students with her arms crossed.

Note that she does not show up in the destroy ending unless you romanced her, in which case she's looking up at the stars, waiting for you to come back to her.  Say all you want about the EC, but I thought that was sweet.