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"Hello Dead People!": The Jackolyte Society


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#7126
Jonata

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Premier Bromanov wrote...

Sundown Native wrote...

So I'm working on something Jack-related, and a thought just popped into my head.

Do you guys think she'd adopt a kid?


I think she would.  Mama Bear mode Jack means she at least has some of the instincts for it.

EDIT: My idea is that Jack adopts an asari child, a war orphan.  She teaches her to be a biotic the Jack way, and it causes a little stir among asari adults.  This is because the asari have biotics integrated in to every aspect of their lives, and their formal education includes biotics education.


I think she wouldn't, because the students are her sons and daughters. I always pictured she and Shepard keep training young Biotics Adepts & Vanguards at Grissom for the rest of their life after the Reapers' defeat. 

PS: I love and approve of your signature, Bromanov. As much as I like Vega and Javik, I'll do the same. 

#7127
Guest_Sundown Native_*

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 Reason I ask was because I was playing around with the idea of the two adopting a kid or whatever for the comic I was going to do. I still am, as a matter of fact.

Regardless, I just put up the first part of the comic, and I'm about to start working on the second bit.

And is the squad makeup for ME3 really that bad, Bromanov? I mean, the only real person in the team I like enough to keep is Ashley. Seriously, I don't even let FemSheps choose Kaidan over her on Virmire.

#7128
Premier Bromanov

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Sundown Native wrote...

 Reason I ask was because I was playing around with the idea of the two adopting a kid or whatever for the comic I was going to do. I still am, as a matter of fact.

Regardless, I just put up the first part of the comic, and I'm about to start working on the second bit.

And is the squad makeup for ME3 really that bad, Bromanov? I mean, the only real person in the team I like enough to keep is Ashley. Seriously, I don't even let FemSheps choose Kaidan over her on Virmire.


Yes.  My two favorite ME characters were ME2 squadmates.  That they were excluded from the ME3 squad, along with all of the new ME2 squadmates, killed my will to play ME3.  That and the endings.

I'll put it like this: Choosing squadmates for missions in ME2 is like being in a candy store but having only $5.  What do I choose?!  Choosing squadmates for missions in ME3 is like picking kids for your dodgeball team, but only the fat and gimpy kids are left.

#7129
Jonata

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Premier Bromanov wrote...

Sundown Native wrote...

 Reason I ask was because I was playing around with the idea of the two adopting a kid or whatever for the comic I was going to do. I still am, as a matter of fact.

Regardless, I just put up the first part of the comic, and I'm about to start working on the second bit.

And is the squad makeup for ME3 really that bad, Bromanov? I mean, the only real person in the team I like enough to keep is Ashley. Seriously, I don't even let FemSheps choose Kaidan over her on Virmire.


Yes.  My two favorite ME characters were ME2 squadmates.  That they were excluded from the ME3 squad, along with all of the new ME2 squadmates, killed my will to play ME3.  That and the endings.

I'll put it like this: Choosing squadmates for missions in ME2 is like being in a candy store but having only $5.  What do I choose?!  Choosing squadmates for missions in ME3 is like picking kids for your dodgeball team, but only the fat and gimpy kids are left.


Yes, absolutely this. While my favourite character is Jack, I remember playing ME2 and thinking about how perfect those 12 were. From Zaeed stories to Jacob's atypical mediocrity, every one of them had a memorable line, or a special moment that give them a special place in my memories.

With ME3, I'm pretty sure that the N7 team from the latest MP DLC has just single-handedly beaten the entire ME3 Team from the Selection Screen without even having a proper character development. They look more bad-ass in a 3 minutes trailer than Liara, Ashley, Sexbot EDI and Vega looks in 50 hours of gameplay.

(And I'll say it again, I actually like Vega. He just can't compare.)

PS: Sundown, I really like your drawings and the Keanu Reeves-Shepard (because that's Keanu Reeves, right?) but I think you should do something for those dialogue lines. Maybe use a less invadent font and try to merge them more with the pictures... just my two cents. 

Modifié par Jonata, 26 juillet 2012 - 03:35 .


#7130
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Nope. None of my Shepards are based on real life people. Majority of the people kept saying this Shepard looked like Hugh Jackman, but it pretty much depends on how I end up drawing him.

Thanks for the feedback, by the way.


And while we're still on the ME2 V. ME3 topic, you got to give the ME3 squad some credit. It couldn't be ALL bad. I understand that most of the ME2 team got brushed aside (Unless you count EDI, since technically, she WAS part of the ME2 team) but still.


I myself couldn't offer up a good example, seeing as I pretty much went back to the ME1 mindset: I only took humans into the fight.

#7131
MACharlie1

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New Marauder Shields showcases Jack. ;)

#7132
SlottsMachine

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I don't know Sundown, the ME3 squad was pretty bad.

Jonata wrote...

PS: I love and approve of your signature, Bromanov. As much as I like Vega and Javik, I'll do the same. 


How many renegade points do you think you would get for that. Ha!

#7133
Premier Bromanov

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It was all bad, Sundown Native. I was never fond of the ME1 squad. I was neutral to it. ME2 introduced me to characters I couldn't get enough of. ME3 takes it all away, and adds some more people I wish were just ME2 squadmates.

The galaxy is falling apart, and I'm forced to choose from people I don't care about. ME3 is a very lonely and hollow game to me, for this reason.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 26 juillet 2012 - 04:43 .


#7134
SlottsMachine

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I use to like Ashley a lot but they killed her.

#7135
Dr. Doctor

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MACharlie1 wrote...

New Marauder Shields showcases Jack. ;)


For a minute there I thought Jack was going to bring Big Ben down on that Reaper. Marauder Shields is one of the best fancomics I've seen, they could show the official Dark Horse stuff how it's done.

#7136
Padt

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Re: Jack adopting, I could see it happening, actually, even with her ME2 mindset, but not necessarily as something that occurs "officially", so to speak. So, I don't see her, say, explicitly going out of her way to pick up an orphan to raise as her own out of some desire to be a mother or anything, but I could see her taking somebody under her wing under more or less the same mindset that one would pick up a stray. Perhaps it would be out of pity or sympathy or what have you, but the key is that I think she would eventually perhaps develop a certain attachment to them, a yearning for protecting them and caring for them as one would a child. It seems to me that this is more or less what happened with her students, at least going by her notes on the datapad in Grissom Academy.

Re: the ME3 squad, to be honest, I like it just fine. It is not as rich or eclectic as the ME2 squad, naturally, but in truth I think few party-based RPG games feature parties as interesting as ME2. ME2 is the only ME that is very much about the squad. I mean...the plot, such as it is? Silly, stupid, a shoddily put together skeletal structure over which the devs could lay over the true meat of the game, its real focus: pure, distilled characterization. ME2 is the only ME game whose "spine" was comprised largely of a) meeting new characters ("recruitment missions"), B) getting to know them a bit better over the course of the game ("Normandy conversations") and c) eventually gaining a greater insight into their history and the things shaped them into the people they are today ("loyalty missions"). If you skimped out on any of these three things, the length of your game time would be cut noticeably shorter, because these are very much the things that the game was about. ME2 was not a game of large scale events or cerebral concepts, it was a game about people - a cast of characters - and in order for it to be truly compelling, these characters had to be extremely diverse, and rich, and interesting. To that end, you had twelve squadmates - more, frankly, than you ever needed, or probably wound up using - and they each came with unique voices, unique personalities, unique backgrounds and priorities and moral compasses and perspectives on things. Almost every aspect of ME2 was geared towards this, this exploration of characters rather than ideas, and as a result of that, it is arguably the only ME game where it can be said that even the traditional love scenes that occur towards the end of the game play an integral role in the character arcs that the love interest-squadmates experience throughout the game.

ME3 is different. It's not a game about people, and it isn't a game about world-building and the speculative exploration of hard science fiction concepts (as the first game was). It is, however, terribly charming, self-aware and dynamic, and its focus greatly benefits from that. I would argue that ME3's focus - at least as it pertains to the squad - is not "people" but "dynamics", and to that end it heavily emphasizes bidirectional communication between Shepard and his or her squadmates, and between the squadmates themselves. Conversation and dialogue are lighter and more naturalistic (aided in part by the large amounts of auto-dialogue in the game). There is a greater emphasis on friendship, humor and camaraderie. Romance-specific dialogue is generally a bit more overt and visceral than it's been on previous games. And so forth. ME3 is not about characters or concepts, but about the systems that are created between two people once they begin to interact, be those people Shepard and a squadmate, or two squadmates, or a squadmate and other NPCs (ME3's also more or less the only game that goes out of its way to indicate that, well, squadmates actually have lives and perspectives and things to do outside of talking to Shepard). And, you know, I think that's all good stuff. The ME3 squad is not, on the whole, as numerous or as interesting as the ME2 one, but they are good, well-written, well-executed characters, and I think it's also interesting that unlike previous games, their development as characters is not shackled by almost anything. None of the ME3 guys have anything resembling personal quests other than, literally, hanging out with Shepard every now and then. Their character development doesn't hinge on the existence of a romance. In fact, they serve little purpose in the game other than just...to be your friends, and to do the sorts of things with you that friends do together. Talk, commiserate, grieve, have fun, comfort, flirt and so forth. It's good, I think.

I'd love to have my ME2 guys back (well, some of them, at least). They're still my favorite squad in the series, and always will be, and I do genuinely believe that some of them got shafted quite heavily and undeservedly in ME3. And, of course, I would pay all the money in my ever-emptying wallet in order to have them around some more. But, you know, I think there may be a certain argument to be made that BioWare can and should, also, strive to move forward. Creating and exploring new characters and ideas and so forth, as opposed to simply revisiting old ones. Hell, if they hadn't done that, we wouldn't have had the ME2 squad in the first place, and none of these conversations would be taking place. I'm sure lots of ME1 devotees felt this way when they saw most of their guys set aside (in some cases quite brutally) in favor of the faux-Dirty Dozen.

Modifié par Padt, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:21 .


#7137
Padt

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Oh, and I found this manipulation of Jack earlier. No clue who did it or where it's from, but I did rather like it.

Image IPB

#7138
Shaleist

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Premier Bromanov wrote...
 Choosing squadmates for missions in ME3 is like picking kids for your dodgeball team, but only the fat and gimpy kids are left.


*nodding head*  

#7139
Premier Bromanov

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I think that's wrong, Padt. Some of the legacy squadmates got the shaft in ME3. Not all of them were as well-developed as the others. Consider all of the autodialogue, too. ME3 goes even lighter on roleplaying elements.

I think it's wrong that the entirety of the new ME2 characters was omitted from the ME3 squad. It's lazy, and it demonstrates that the ME games were never meant to truly carry over in to one another. It also demonstrates that the import system provided only the illusion of the PC having an impact on the game world.

We were told we'd be getting a dynamic squad, some static, others coming and going depending on the status of the plot. Like many other things, that was removed, contributing to establishing ME3 as a game defined by squandered potential.

So, like my sig says. I'd kill off the entire ME3 squad if it meant getting Jack or Samara back, because I'd at least be interested in playing the game in the first place.

#7140
DarkPrinceRevan

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the normandy is just to big for the skeleton crew that we got, they might as well stuck us in the first one if all that space was gonna go to waste.

speaking of roleplaying elements i find it amusing that he multiplayer as more of the old ME1 weapon customization then the single player experience does.

as for as autodialogue honestly nobody but Joker and garrus have anything really interesting to say to me. hell i miss my damn cook, we get a new kitchen with nobody to actually use it except vega and his eggs...

#7141
RenegadeSpectre

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Image IPB

http://aspiflette.de...-Zero-294035423

#7142
Premier Bromanov

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Hm. Something looks off about her face. I can't tell what it is.  It makes her look different, not entirely like Jack.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 26 juillet 2012 - 03:23 .


#7143
Jonata

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Padt wrote...

Re: Jack adopting, I could see it happening, actually, even with her ME2 mindset, but not necessarily as something that occurs "officially", so to speak. So, I don't see her, say, explicitly going out of her way to pick up an orphan to raise as her own out of some desire to be a mother or anything, but I could see her taking somebody under her wing under more or less the same mindset that one would pick up a stray. Perhaps it would be out of pity or sympathy or what have you, but the key is that I think she would eventually perhaps develop a certain attachment to them, a yearning for protecting them and caring for them as one would a child. It seems to me that this is more or less what happened with her students, at least going by her notes on the datapad in Grissom Academy.

Re: the ME3 squad, to be honest, I like it just fine. It is not as rich or eclectic as the ME2 squad, naturally, but in truth I think few party-based RPG games feature parties as interesting as ME2. ME2 is the only ME that is very much about the squad. I mean...the plot, such as it is? Silly, stupid, a shoddily put together skeletal structure over which the devs could lay over the true meat of the game, its real focus: pure, distilled characterization. ME2 is the only ME game whose "spine" was comprised largely of a) meeting new characters ("recruitment missions"), B) getting to know them a bit better over the course of the game ("Normandy conversations") and c) eventually gaining a greater insight into their history and the things shaped them into the people they are today ("loyalty missions"). If you skimped out on any of these three things, the length of your game time would be cut noticeably shorter, because these are very much the things that the game was about. ME2 was not a game of large scale events or cerebral concepts, it was a game about people - a cast of characters - and in order for it to be truly compelling, these characters had to be extremely diverse, and rich, and interesting. To that end, you had twelve squadmates - more, frankly, than you ever needed, or probably wound up using - and they each came with unique voices, unique personalities, unique backgrounds and priorities and moral compasses and perspectives on things. Almost every aspect of ME2 was geared towards this, this exploration of characters rather than ideas, and as a result of that, it is arguably the only ME game where it can be said that even the traditional love scenes that occur towards the end of the game play an integral role in the character arcs that the love interest-squadmates experience throughout the game.

ME3 is different. It's not a game about people, and it isn't a game about world-building and the speculative exploration of hard science fiction concepts (as the first game was). It is, however, terribly charming, self-aware and dynamic, and its focus greatly benefits from that. I would argue that ME3's focus - at least as it pertains to the squad - is not "people" but "dynamics", and to that end it heavily emphasizes bidirectional communication between Shepard and his or her squadmates, and between the squadmates themselves. Conversation and dialogue are lighter and more naturalistic (aided in part by the large amounts of auto-dialogue in the game). There is a greater emphasis on friendship, humor and camaraderie. Romance-specific dialogue is generally a bit more overt and visceral than it's been on previous games. And so forth. ME3 is not about characters or concepts, but about the systems that are created between two people once they begin to interact, be those people Shepard and a squadmate, or two squadmates, or a squadmate and other NPCs (ME3's also more or less the only game that goes out of its way to indicate that, well, squadmates actually have lives and perspectives and things to do outside of talking to Shepard). And, you know, I think that's all good stuff. The ME3 squad is not, on the whole, as numerous or as interesting as the ME2 one, but they are good, well-written, well-executed characters, and I think it's also interesting that unlike previous games, their development as characters is not shackled by almost anything. None of the ME3 guys have anything resembling personal quests other than, literally, hanging out with Shepard every now and then. Their character development doesn't hinge on the existence of a romance. In fact, they serve little purpose in the game other than just...to be your friends, and to do the sorts of things with you that friends do together. Talk, commiserate, grieve, have fun, comfort, flirt and so forth. It's good, I think.

I'd love to have my ME2 guys back (well, some of them, at least). They're still my favorite squad in the series, and always will be, and I do genuinely believe that some of them got shafted quite heavily and undeservedly in ME3. And, of course, I would pay all the money in my ever-emptying wallet in order to have them around some more. But, you know, I think there may be a certain argument to be made that BioWare can and should, also, strive to move forward. Creating and exploring new characters and ideas and so forth, as opposed to simply revisiting old ones. Hell, if they hadn't done that, we wouldn't have had the ME2 squad in the first place, and none of these conversations would be taking place. I'm sure lots of ME1 devotees felt this way when they saw most of their guys set aside (in some cases quite brutally) in favor of the faux-Dirty Dozen.


But ME1 simply didn't have the same amount of character development nor the unique and colorful characters of ME1. Also, the ME1 squadmates presence in ME2 (Liara in LotSB and Wrex on Tuchanka) is really organic and fit the story.

In ME3 only Garrus and Tali, who were more ME1 than ME2 after all, come back, and none of the 12 have a role that is organic in the story. Maybe you can say that Miranda part on Sanctum is important, but you can do that mission without her just fine. The absence of every ME2 squadmate except Tali and Garrus makes you lose less than 200 War Assets. That is sad, giving the superior development of ME2 characters.

PS: the ME2 plot isn't a silly structure on which the devs placed character development. The ME2 plot IS the character development... the Collectors' angle is just part of the story but the fact that half of  the game is composed by Loyalty Missions pretty much proves that character development is not only the focus of the game but an integral part of the plot.

Also, I wouldn't call a premise like "twelve deviant individuals with extraordinary abilities gathered by a forgotten hero to follow him in a suicide mission were everyone could die" weak or silly. Especially for a videogame.

#7144
DarkPrinceRevan

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Premier Bromanov wrote...

Hm. Something looks off about her face. I can't tell what it is.  It makes her look different, not entirely like Jack.


well she is missing her scar for one

i think she lacks something in the eyes thats makes Jack who she is, its abit hard to capture it black and white sometimes

Modifié par DarkPrinceRevan, 26 juillet 2012 - 04:00 .


#7145
10K

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first time useing photoshop, working on my drawing with my shep and Jack. any tips? (WIP)

My pic 

#7146
WRXtacy

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Why make ME2 about developing these awesome characters only to use a handful from the original game and none from ME2? Damn you to hell bioware.

Also that Marauder shields comic is awesome. I just read the dark horse Homeworld of Garrus (my second favorite character) and it is god awful. The writes all need to be taken outside and beat. Same with the artists. 

Modifié par WRXtacy, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:12 .


#7147
Premier Bromanov

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To add to my thoughts, and to respond to someone else's thoughts about Jack adopting, I agree that she wouldn't go through the formal adoption process. If she were to find a child that had been abandoned, or that was orphaned, and it clearly needed help, she would probably take it with her, and treat it as her own.

Take Clementine, from the "The Walking Dead" games. She's an eight-year-old girl whose parents have died. She's been taking care of herself by scavenging, and by hiding in her treehouse. The PC can offer to let her come along. I think that Jack would "adopt" Clementine, and there wouldn't be a zombie (or Husk) within ten miles safe from Jack's wrath.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 26 juillet 2012 - 11:39 .


#7148
Guest_Sundown Native_*

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Premier Bromanov wrote...

To add to my thoughts, and to respond to someone else's thoughts about Jack adopting, I agree that she wouldn't go through the formal adoption process. If she were to find a child that had been abandoned, or that was orphaned, and it clearly needed help, she would probably take it with her, and treat it as her own.

Take Clementine, from the "The Walking Dead" games. She's an eight-year-old girl whose parents have died. She's been taking care of herself by scavenging, and by hiding in her treehouse. The PC can offer to let her come along. I think that Jack would "adopt" Clementine, and there wouldn't be a zombie (or Husk) within ten miles safe from Jack's wrath.




I know exactly what you're talking about. And that just put a smile on my face.

#7149
Jonata

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Sundown Native wrote...

Premier Bromanov wrote...

To add to my thoughts, and to respond to someone else's thoughts about Jack adopting, I agree that she wouldn't go through the formal adoption process. If she were to find a child that had been abandoned, or that was orphaned, and it clearly needed help, she would probably take it with her, and treat it as her own.

Take Clementine, from the "The Walking Dead" games. She's an eight-year-old girl whose parents have died. She's been taking care of herself by scavenging, and by hiding in her treehouse. The PC can offer to let her come along. I think that Jack would "adopt" Clementine, and there wouldn't be a zombie (or Husk) within ten miles safe from Jack's wrath.




I know exactly what you're talking about. And that just put a smile on my face.


Well, based on your description of this Clementine, I'm pretty sure Newt would be an excellent candidate too.

#7150
Premier Bromanov

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Newt's a little more traumatized and distant than Clementine. Clementine has a child's cheeriness and naivety, and she's often keenly aware of things you wouldn't expect her to have picked up on. They are still similar.

EDIT: Hell, I think Clementine or a Clementine analogue would be perfect for Jack, when writing a story about Jack warming up to an orphaned child that she eventually treats as her own kid.  I ought to get to work on this.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 27 juillet 2012 - 02:19 .