7744 réponses à ce sujet

[Asenza]

Marblecraze wrote...

cornish knight wrote...

I would like to see a fulfilling love story in ME3 for jack, not just a sidelined one due to the fact that she's not in the core six team member group

So is it now confirmed that the 6 people announced for Perma Squad members are the only Core Squad members? Or is that still speculation based only on the lack of any new information or confirmation on who is permanent or indeed sidelined? I've been routinely (weekly or hell daily) hoping for above all else that those 6 were Not the only core members. I miss Jack all the time as it is.

They just keep going on about perm-squad members not being the same as it used to... whatever that means.

[jtav]

Speculation. They've said the core squad will be between ME1 and ME2 in size. So anything from seven to ten is possible.

[Epantiras]

[spoiler]
In the latest Bioware TV episode, when asked about Jack, Casey Hudson said the usual "the character will be doing whatever is appropriate to them" which is the same reply he gave to questions about Zaeed's and Thane's whereabouts - but not about the squadmates revealed so far aka Tali, Garrus, Liara and the VirSur. Apparently, an article stated that Thane *won't* be a perma squadmate and will appear is a mission instead - something tells me the same will happen to Jack (and Zaeed).
My bet is that there will be a "core squad" and lotsa temporary companions a-la LotSB. The core squad composition is likely to change because of Virmire-like events, just to increase the drama.

On a side note, this week's Mess Perfect 2 update will feature Zaeed. The next one will be like a Purgatory instead :-)

[KawaiiKatie]

I'm going to be so pissed off if Jack is a "temporary squadmate"... AKA "cameo." That wouldn't be cool. She's my love-interest and deserves permanent a spot on my team. I'd rather hang out with my love-interest than Liara and Garrus and Tali... but I guess Bioware doesn't care.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Yeah me too. Poor Jack, she totally deserves a more important role in ME3 because she didn't get the attention she deserved in ME2, and now she gets more or less dumped?

That's bad news for me, the ''core squad'' consist of the characters I like the least; my go-to squad in ME2 were Zaeed, Jack, Samara and Thane. I hate it how Bioware shoves me their favorite and more popular characters in the face, it was bad enough in LOTSB, now in ME3 it gets even worse?

Goddammit, give it a rest Bioware, I already know that Liara, Tali and Garrus are your goddamn favorites but I don't like them at all, in fact I totally dislike the idea of being stuck with them in ME3.

[kumquats]

The Woldan wrote...

Yeah me too. Poor Jack, she totally deserves a more important role in ME3 because she didn't get the attention she deserved in ME2, and now she gets more or less dumped?

Sorry what?
Who said that?

[Giant ambush beetle]

Well, not completely dumped, its the rumor that the less popular characters from ME2 will only play minor roles and will only be temporary squad members in ME3. Zaeed, Jack, Thane, Samara etc. It hasn't been confirmed yet but judging by the dev comments......

You can bet your behind that Tali, Liara etc. will be perma squadmembers. Le sigh.

Modifié par The Woldan , 29 octobre 2011 - 01:19 .

[Asenza]

>_< Considering how nonsensical and ridiculous the main storyline of ME2 was (TIM: go gather a group of people to do something, somewhere against the collectors, forget about how little we know about them), I wouldn't be surprised if they spent all of Mass Effect 3 pretending the Collector escapade never happened...

I'm really hoping that they don't, but I'm still prepared for all my crew from ME2 greeting me like it's the first time we're meeting...

[Saaziel]

Epantiras wrote...


My bet is that there will be a "core squad" and lotsa temporary companions a-la LotSB. The core squad composition is likely to change because of Virmire-like events, just to increase the drama.

Didn't Courtney said that she spent a good deal of time recording. Hopefully , if its temporary based , it will last a little longer than LotsB. But i can totally see a LotsB & Virmir thing happening.

Epantiras wrote...

On a side note, this week's Mess Perfect 2 update will feature Zaeed. The next one will be like a Purgatory instead :-)

This is both awesome and disapointing at the same time.

Modifié par Saaziel, 29 octobre 2011 - 05:26 .

[Labrev]

I have a good feeling that Jack will have a bigger role in ME3 than a Liara/LotSB type of thing. The devs have said that "no one is permanent" so I think room will be made for Jack.

Thane's story is just about over, so him being a smaller-role makes sense. But Jack has more room for growth in her character, possibly the most of any other in the series. She was a mandatory squad-recruit in ME2 afterall, I'm sure they'll want to give her story its due.

[Asenza]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

I have a good feeling that Jack will have a bigger role in ME3 than a Liara/LotSB type of thing. The devs have said that "no one is permanent" so I think room will be made for Jack.

Thane's story is just about over, so him being a smaller-role makes sense. But Jack has more room for growth in her character, possibly the most of any other in the series. She was a mandatory squad-recruit in ME2 afterall, I'm sure they'll want to give her story its due.

I disagree about Thane's story being just about over. On the contrary, assuming a cure or some method of life-extension is applied to him (that's what the Hanar are up to) I think that the story of a man resigned to death finding out that he won't die would be amazing. Killing characters is easy. Having them live is far more difficult, and far more interesting to see.

[KawaiiKatie]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

I have a good feeling that Jack will have a bigger role in ME3 than a Liara/LotSB type of thing. The devs have said that "no one is permanent" so I think room will be made for Jack.

They also said that there's a "core squad" so... what, Vega, Liara and VS rotate through the "temporary squadmates" because only people who have an ME1 love-interest deserve to spend the entire game with their lover?

Thane's story is just about over, so him being a smaller-role makes sense.

Man, that's what pisses me off so hard. I don't care if Thane's story is "over." Thane is someone's love-interest. To someone's Shepard, he's the most important character in the universe. That Shepard deserves to have Thane at her side throughout a majority of the game, and not just for a single LotSB-style mission.

The same goes for Jack. No, she's not the most popular love-interest out there, but she's my love-interest, and it pisses me off that I'm going to be forced to hang out with the "popular" characters because Bioware can't wait to give Garrus and Liara more screen time.

[Labrev]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Man, that's what pisses me off so hard. I don't care if Thane's story is "over." Thane is someone's love-interest. To someone's Shepard, he's the most important character in the universe. That Shepard deserves to have Thane at her side throughout a majority of the game, and not just for a single LotSB-style mission.

The same goes for Jack. No, she's not the most popular love-interest out there, but she's my love-interest, and it pisses me off that I'm going to be forced to hang out with the "popular" characters because Bioware can't wait to give Garrus and Liara more screen time.

Correlation need not imply causation. Tali and Garrus are not in ME2 because of popularity. I'd argue they're popular because they were in ME2. They had a following from ME1 to start out with, then more fans with a successful ME2 run.

Those fans are just lucky. Lucky that Tali and Garrus have no story significance outside Shepard's life, and keep returning to his squad because of it. I don't exactly love them myself, but I get why they are there and am OK with it. It works in the story.

If it were all about popularity, why wasn't Wrex in ME2? He was just as, if not more, popular as his alien counterparts. But, he was given a story-significant role, one that will likely continue into ME3 as well.

The VS also has a sizeable fanbase. Not as big as Team Dextro. It can't be, their cameo in ME2 doesn't exactly endear them much support. But nonetheless, VS fans had to go the length of ME2 without them. Sucks for them, but that's the way the writers wanted it, to set the stage for a Spectre VS in ME3.

Now, Horizon could have been handled a lot better than it was. But that's the point. What matters is quality, not quantity.

Story should always come first, before all individual characters. Equal screentime is not better than a more interesting plot, especially if the story can be written to involve all characters in a unique and satisfying ways to contribute to the plot.

For example: Thane may not be back for the long haul. However, they can still make his brief appearance satisfying to fans. How? Pre-mission dialogue, special dialogue for Thanemancers. Post-mission dialgoue, akin to Liara post-LotSB. Post-game (game is still playable after final battle) go visit Thane and Kolyat wherever their whereabouts are. Thanemancers get a cuddle option. Would that be such a bad thing?

Or Miranda and Jacob. TIM and Cerberus will play a big role in ME3. This can easily entail special missions where Shepard will require their help. They are also leaders in their own rights, so maybe they can lead Cerberus forces alongside the fleets that Shepard is gathering while recruiting other races. And then, again, special scenes/content for players that romanced them.

That's why I am confident Jack will be back on the Normandy at some point or another. She's got nothing else real important to her character for her not to be. And, depending on her loyalty to you, Jack haters need not recruit.

The devs admitted that 12 was too much in ME2. They didn't say 8 was too much. Or 9. So, I think we'll probably get another couple squaddies on top of the "core" 6 that they've announced.


tl;dr - what should matter is not how big a role everyone gets, but how satisfying.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 29 octobre 2011 - 08:12 .

[Labrev]

Asenza wrote...

I disagree about Thane's story being just about over. On the contrary, assuming a cure or some method of life-extension is applied to him (that's what the Hanar are up to) I think that the story of a man resigned to death finding out that he won't die would be amazing. Killing characters is easy. Having them live is far more difficult, and far more interesting to see.

Indeed. But, perma-squad status does not have to be required to pull this off. See post above.

[Asenza]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Asenza wrote...

I disagree about Thane's story being just about over. On the contrary, assuming a cure or some method of life-extension is applied to him (that's what the Hanar are up to) I think that the story of a man resigned to death finding out that he won't die would be amazing. Killing characters is easy. Having them live is far more difficult, and far more interesting to see.

Indeed. But, perma-squad status does not have to be required to pull this off. See post above.

Sorry to go off topic in the Jack thread. But I wasn't talking about Thane being a permanent squad member. My previous post was about you completely writing off Thane.

[Labrev]

Asenza wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Indeed. But, perma-squad status does not have to be required to pull this off. See post above.

Sorry to go off topic in the Jack thread. But I wasn't talking about Thane being a permanent squad member. My previous post was about you completely writing off Thane.

And I agreed with you, those would be interesting things to see out of his character, that I admittedly did not consider.

Still, my position still stands, that development can take place well enough without having to make him a permenent squadmate. Still don't think he has nearly as much potential character growth as many others do either (such as Jack, Jacob, Grunt, Miranda, Tali...).

[Asenza]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Asenza wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Indeed. But, perma-squad status does not have to be required to pull this off. See post above.

Sorry to go off topic in the Jack thread. But I wasn't talking about Thane being a permanent squad member. My previous post was about you completely writing off Thane.

And I agreed with you, those would be interesting things to see out of his character, that I admittedly did not consider.

Still, my position still stands, that development can take place well enough without having to make him a permenent squadmate. Still don't think he has nearly as much potential character growth as many others do either (such as Jack, Jacob, Grunt, Miranda, Tali...).

Come now, that's not fair. I could say that Jack, Jacob, Grunt, Miranda and Tali don't have nearly as much potential character growth as Thane. That's entirely subjective. All their characters are going to have to progress, to move in one way or another or they will become static in ME3.

By the same token, Tali, Miranda, Grunt, Jacob, and Jack's characters' can develop without making them permanent squadmates. Besides, "permanent squadmate" apparantly doesn't mean the same thing it used to, so we're all just going to have to wait and see how it goes.

Sorry again for off-topicness.

Modifié par Asenza, 29 octobre 2011 - 08:46 .

[KawaiiKatie]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Correlation need not imply causation. Tali and Garrus are not in ME2 because of popularity. I'd argue they're popular because they were in ME2. They had a following from ME1 to start out with, then more fans with a successful ME2 run.

That might be true, but at this point, I sincerly doubt that Bioware will hestitate to exploit Garrus and Tali's popularity to its fullest in ME3. Garrus and Tali move merchandise, and Bioware probably isn't eager to ****** off their fanbase by "insulting" the characters with a minor roll in ME3. It doesn't matter that some of us would rather fight alongside "unpopular" characters or keep our "unpopular" love-interest by our side while the galaxy burns, Bioware is more likely to force me to hang out with Garrus and Tali for forty hours because that's what the majority of players want.

For example: Thane may not be back for the long haul. However, they can still make his brief appearance satisfying to fans. How? Pre-mission dialogue, special dialogue for Thanemancers. Post-mission dialgoue, akin to Liara post-LotSB. Post-game (game is still playable after final battle) go visit Thane and Kolyat wherever their whereabouts are. Thanemancers get a cuddle option. Would that be such a bad thing?

Because DLC-level content just doesn't cut it in the main game, especially when players who chose to romance more "popluar" characters (like Liara) are apparently entitled to constant contact with their love-interest. I'm sure that Liaramancers thoroughly enjoyed LotSB, but I'll bet if you told them that so little content was all they had to look forward to in ME3, they'd be as pissed off as I am, because I want Jack back for more than just six seconds of cuddling.

That's why I am confident Jack will be back on the Normandy at some point or another. She's got nothing else real important to her character for her not to be.

I really hope this is true, especially if Jack is Shepard's love-interest. I can't imagine Jack doing anything more important than helping the man she loves save the galaxy. Any bullcrap that Bioware comes up with to keep her away from me will just seem like a cheap cop-out, a lame excuse fabricated to compensate for the fact that my lover is dead in some else's game. <_<

[spirosz]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

That's why I am confident Jack will be back on the Normandy at some point or another. She's got nothing else real important to her character for her not to be. And, depending on her loyalty to you, Jack haters need not recruit.

The thing with Jack is, she really has no where to go, unless she wants to continue going down her usual path before ME2.  We could probably all name something each other character has, that can lead them away from Shepard.

Mind you, these are all just random, not too much thought going into it, just relating to my point. Also, I'm not including core characters for ME3.

Legion - Unite the Geth
Zaeed - Retire, do the same old .
Miranda - Cerberus, her sister
Jacob - Alliance, Cerberus, some type of soldier work.
Samara - Go back to Asari space, find more Ardat-Yakshi
Thane - Can go back to see his son, before his death
Grunt - Work with Urdnot
Mordin - Genophage, STG work, whatever.
Kasumi - Stealing the universe
Jack - Continue down her criminal path - See the thing is, I really don't see her falling back into that mindset because of the events of ME2, she would probably want to have some impact on the Reapers, especially if romanced by Shepard.  Sure, you can argue that anyone of them would want to do something against the Reaper, but I still have the feeling that Jack would have nothing productive to do, but well survive.  

[Saaziel]

spiros9110 wrote...

Kasumi - Stealing the universe

That made me chuckle

spiros9110 wrote...

Jack - Continue down her criminal path - See the thing is, I really don't see her falling back into that mindset because of the events of ME2, she would probably want to have some impact on the Reapers, especially if romanced by Shepard. Sure, you can argue that anyone of them would want to do something against the Reaper, but I still have the feeling that Jack would have nothing productive to do, but well survive.

I think you make some good points. Something tells me that Biotics might have an important aspect in defeating the Reapers. They're other , powerful , biotics out there of course. But i keep thinking this could be an angle on Jack.

Modifié par Saaziel, 29 octobre 2011 - 11:01 .

[Labrev]

Asenza wrote...

Come now, that's not fair. I could say that Jack, Jacob, Grunt, Miranda and Tali don't have nearly as much potential character growth as Thane. That's entirely subjective. All their characters are going to have to progress, to move in one way or another or they will become static in ME3.

By the same token, Tali, Miranda, Grunt, Jacob, and Jack's characters' can develop without making them permanent squadmates. Besides, "permanent squadmate" apparantly doesn't mean the same thing it used to, so we're all just going to have to wait and see how it goes.

Sorry again for off-topicness.

What can Thane grow into at this point? Maybe spend more of his final days with Kolyat (that is, if you didn't fail his LM) and perhaps a little more fighting if his health improves enough (a stretch).

Barring something completely unexpected, really not much.

Jack is going to be at a crossroads with the path she chooses in her life. As will be Miranda with Cerberus. Jacob has long been said to be a talented soldier with potential to be great. Grunt is the strongest krogan and will likely play an important role for them in the war ahead, if he decides he wants to fight for them. He just came back from a suicide mission as a teenager, he may well be going down the path of a young Wrex.

What's unfair about this evaluation? It's completely subjective. There's plenty of reason to think someone like Jack can grow dramatically in her character. Thane, not so much.

[Labrev]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Correlation need not imply causation. Tali and Garrus are not in ME2 because of popularity. I'd argue they're popular because they were in ME2. They had a following from ME1 to start out with, then more fans with a successful ME2 run.

That might be true, but at this point, I sincerly doubt that Bioware will hestitate to exploit Garrus and Tali's popularity to its fullest in ME3. Garrus and Tali move merchandise, and Bioware probably isn't eager to ****** off their fanbase by "insulting" the characters with a minor roll in ME3. It doesn't matter that some of us would rather fight alongside "unpopular" characters or keep our "unpopular" love-interest by our side while the galaxy burns, Bioware is more likely to force me to hang out with Garrus and Tali for forty hours because that's what the majority of players want.

Exploiting the game's most popular characters for marketing purposes is pretty much common sense. Isn't it? At the end of the day their job is to make money.

Also common sense - not to give the shaft to characters that players are most emotionally invested in. Love interests.

For example: Thane may not be back for the long haul. However, they can still make his brief appearance satisfying to fans. How? Pre-mission dialogue, special dialogue for Thanemancers. Post-mission dialgoue, akin to Liara post-LotSB. Post-game (game is still playable after final battle) go visit Thane and Kolyat wherever their whereabouts are. Thanemancers get a cuddle option. Would that be such a bad thing?

Because DLC-level content just doesn't cut it in the main game, especially when players who chose to romance more "popluar" characters (like Liara) are apparently entitled to constant contact with their love-interest. I'm sure that Liaramancers thoroughly enjoyed LotSB, but I'll bet if you told them that so little content was all they had to look forward to in ME3, they'd be as pissed off as I am, because I want Jack back for more than just six seconds of cuddling.

... but ultimately, the story matters more. More for everyone rather than individuals' LIs. And to that end, I think you and I will have to agree to disagree.

What they did with Liara was just stupid. That Liara takes over for the Shadow Broker and is now back in Shepard's squad is nonsense and I should doubt they'll have a truly valid reason for it in ME3.

But that said, they shouldn't make that same mistake again - shoving a character in our face, making them more important than they have to be at the expense of the story.

[Asenza]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

What can Thane grow into at this point? Maybe spend more of his final days with Kolyat (that is, if you didn't fail his LM) and perhaps a little more fighting if his health improves enough (a stretch).

Barring something completely unexpected, really not much.

Jack is going to be at a crossroads with the path she chooses in her life. As will be Miranda with Cerberus. Jacob has long been said to be a talented soldier with potential to be great. Grunt is the strongest krogan and will likely play an important role for them in the war ahead, if he decides he wants to fight for them. He just came back from a suicide mission as a teenager, he may well be going down the path of a young Wrex.

What's unfair about this evaluation? It's completely subjective. There's plenty of reason to think someone like Jack can grow dramatically in her character. Thane, not so much.

Again, I could throw your words right back at you.

(The following is coming from a Jack fan. I don't know if you like Thane or not but it is coming off to me that you are not.)

What can Jack grow into at this point? Maybe calm down just a bit, stay with Shepard if romanced and perhaps run her own pirate gang.

Barring something completely unexpected, really not much.

There's plenty of reason to think someone like Thane can grow dramatically in his character. Jack, not so much.

[Labrev]

Asenza wrote...

Again, I could throw your words right back at you.

(The following is coming from a Jack fan. I don't know if you like Thane or not but it is coming off to me that you are not.)

What can Jack grow into at this point? Maybe calm down just a bit, stay with Shepard if romanced and perhaps run her own pirate gang.

Barring something completely unexpected, really not much.

There's plenty of reason to think someone like Thane can grow dramatically in his character. Jack, not so much.

Actually no, you really can't throw words back at me in this case. I just gave a list of reasons why Thane isn't likely to change real drastically from what he is.

On the other hand, the list of things you've provided for Jack are pretty darn big changes. Calming down a bit marks a signficant change, it shows she really is putting her past behind her. Running a pirate gang, wouldn't like it, but that'd be pretty damn interesting twist. There are lots of ways she could go. Who knows, maybe she decides she wants to do something to help kids who suffered like she did? All are within realm of possibility. All big potential changes. Same can't be said for Thane, it's that simple.

There's no bias in my thinking. I don't really care one way or another about Thane. I wouldn't just say this about any character based on my personal preferences though.

[Marblecraze]

all depressing news. i know this is not firm, but the speculation is enough to hurt. in no way is this a reflection of the game not being anything short of amazing. but a temporary jack does nothing for me. nor does ashley, liara or tali at all. i knew i should have hung out with garus and kaidan and not got emotionally attached, right from the beginning. heart's breaking.

an a completely other note (this is where im at now that im potentially jack'less) any concepts on grunt if i never birthed him. still in pod in alliance hands? cool! actually i don't care. id rather bioware birth jack into my permanent squad.