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"I didn't mutiny once!" Joker Support Thread.


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#8726
Kilshrek

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Squeegee83 wrote...

I just wanted to say that I support this thread.

Before ME3 came out, I was worried if Joker did become a romance option in ME3 that I was going to have a problem choosing between my current LI and him. It's a shame that they didn't make Joker into a LI since it seems to me that so many wanted it.

Joker is da bomb. lol.

I also like to say that I did find the Joker/EDI romance a bit weird. I completely understand what the writers were trying to do and I appreciate it. However it did make Joker's character seem kinda pathetic in my eyes. But that's just my opinion anyways.


What? I loved him all the more for it. It takes serious guts to get into a relationship with an AI, knowing that she's more than just out of his league. But they make a cute couple, almost as cute as Garrus & Tali. And EDI's so helpful, what with being Joker's personal mobility bot.

#8727
Guest_Squeegee83_*

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Kilshrek wrote...

Squeegee83 wrote...

I just wanted to say that I support this thread.

Before ME3 came out, I was worried if Joker did become a romance option in ME3 that I was going to have a problem choosing between my current LI and him. It's a shame that they didn't make Joker into a LI since it seems to me that so many wanted it.

Joker is da bomb. lol.

I also like to say that I did find the Joker/EDI romance a bit weird. I completely understand what the writers were trying to do and I appreciate it. However it did make Joker's character seem kinda pathetic in my eyes. But that's just my opinion anyways.


What? I loved him all the more for it. It takes serious guts to get into a relationship with an AI, knowing that she's more than just out of his league. But they make a cute couple, almost as cute as Garrus & Tali. And EDI's so helpful, what with being Joker's personal mobility bot.


yeah, all of it sounds reasonable enough. but it just didn't work for me. like i said before, that's just my opinion.

Modifié par Squeegee83, 24 mars 2012 - 03:08 .


#8728
Nyreen

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I thought you guys might enjoy this.

Image IPB

(source)

#8729
gingerale

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I have to say, yes, Joker is pure love and perfection given form. But for some reason ever since ME2 I have not wanted any two other characters to get together as much as I have wanted for EDI and Joker. The robot body for EDI wasn't even necessary in my opinion, but helps.

I'm sorry. I just love those two. ♥

But hey! If you get the golden ending it means EDI is not there anymore and Shepard is free to go find Joker after she recovers!

#8730
xScarecrowX

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No! This thread needs to stay on the first or second page. I want my pilot RI! Quick, someone post some fanart or something!

#8731
PsyrenY

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gingerale wrote...

But hey! If you get the golden ending it means EDI is not there anymore and Shepard is free to go find Joker after she recovers!


And free to lie to him for the rest of your lives about who killed her.

#8732
Omega Torsk

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Just had my main MaleShep snap at Joker after the Thessia mission. Look, there's a time and place for snarkiness, but bend the great Shepard too far and even he can break. Felt bad afterwards and wanted to apologize, but it's a nice touch of humanity.

Still pretty bitter at how Bioware forced us into accepting Joker/EDI as canon and teased us with a scenario of what could have been... but apparently, Joker is such a boy scout that he gives a flying Vorcha's arse about regs concerning the "chain of command" and yet won't think twice about dating a hot AI sexbot...

Needless to say, my Diana Shepard is laying the hammer down on that relationship and, even if they sneak it in, I think we all know what choice she's going to make in the end.

:devil:

Perhaps not all hope is lost, the only thing Bioware can really do concerning DLC (other than the "Retake Mass Effect: Alternate Ending" I'm hoping they will create) is go backwards. Maybe we'll receive a "Paramour Pack" of additional romances not available in the base game that will include more in-depth romance interactions with current LI's and ME2 LI's. Maybe Joker will be among the new LI's included in the DLC. When he's discussing the "chain of command," a renegade interrupt can persuade him into accepting Joker/Femshep. I'll let you use your imaginations with that one! XD

And hi, Jokerites!

#8733
SparkyRich

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I can't count the times I chuckled, guffawed, snorted, giggled or just laughed my ass off at the stuff Joker and EDI say. Though "If only my mother could see me now ... we'd have zombies on top of everything else" was the first best ambient bark I heard from him (walked away to get a drink and when I came back he said that).

#8734
viggorrah

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Omega Torsk wrote...

Just had my main MaleShep snap at Joker after the Thessia mission. Look, there's a time and place for snarkiness, but bend the great Shepard too far and even he can break. Felt bad afterwards and wanted to apologize, but it's a nice touch of humanity.

I love that part. I'm not that far in my main save yet (had to do a speed run through ME2 and hope that his face imported this time; he's not a custom Shepard, by the way. Yeah. The CC was even screwing Sheploo up.) but he's gonna snap at Joker too. They might be best friends /headcanon, but after what happens on Thessia, Ryan's really not in the mood.

Plus if you choose the top choice in the second wheel, Joker will mention that it's his fault that Shepard died and is all "half robot". I really like that part too.

Joker had a couple good parts, like this one. And on approach to Grissom Academy, when he provides a distraction.

His eyes still creep me out sometimes, though.

#8735
Alexander Riker

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We already have more than half! Signs also.. :)
http://www.change.or...le-male-shepard

#8736
Sen4lifE

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SilentK wrote...

The Ten Commandments of the Joker Thread[/u][/b]

...
- If you do not agree with a romance, that's fine. So long as you have a good reason and are able to discuss it appropriately, we will be glad to talk with you about it as well.
- Be careful how you phrase things. Simple "Joker's with EDI" or "Shepard will break Joker" seems like trolling. ...


What? "Joker's with EDI" is a very good argument, though not that elaborate.  It sounds to me like you're saying "If you don't agree with me GTFO my thread!" though interpretation isn't implication, so I won't attack that.

Joker isn't a squad character, no matter how lovable he is, she's a crew character, a sidestory.  EDI was originally this, too, but she moved up the latter.  Okay, granted you technically got to play as Joker in ME2.. but still.  EDI and Joker are one of the various side-plots that make Mass Effect immersive.  That would be like saying you should be able to romance Donnelly, or Adams.  Plus, it adds more dimensions to the story when not only Shepard gets in a relationship, but so do the crewmembers around him.  EDI becomes the Normandy, and Joker already loves the Normandy.  They both have everything in common with eachother, yet realistically what would Shepard and Joker have in common?  Joker and EDI are constantly around eachother.  Again, it's very comparable to Donnelly and Daniels.  He is an amazing character, but saying that "He's with EDI" is only a troll argument is ridiculous.

Edit: If Joker had the legs for it, he probably would've mutinied. 

Modifié par Sen4lifE, 26 mars 2012 - 03:56 .


#8737
Elanor

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Sen4lifE wrote...

SilentK wrote...

The Ten Commandments of the Joker Thread[/u][/b]

...
- If you do not agree with a romance, that's fine. So long as you have a good reason and are able to discuss it appropriately, we will be glad to talk with you about it as well.
- Be careful how you phrase things. Simple "Joker's with EDI" or "Shepard will break Joker" seems like trolling. ...


What? "Joker's with EDI" is a very good argument, though not that elaborate.  It sounds to me like you're saying "If you don't agree with me GTFO my thread!" though interpretation isn't implication, so I won't attack that.

Joker isn't a squad character, no matter how lovable he is, she's a crew character, a sidestory.  EDI was originally this, too, but she moved up the latter.  Okay, granted you technically got to play as Joker in ME2.. but still.  EDI and Joker are one of the various side-plots that make Mass Effect immersive.  That would be like saying you should be able to romance Donnelly, or Adams.  Plus, it adds more dimensions to the story when not only Shepard gets in a relationship, but so do the crewmembers around him.  EDI becomes the Normandy, and Joker already loves the Normandy.  They both have everything in common with eachother, yet realistically what would Shepard and Joker have in common?  Joker and EDI are constantly around eachother.  Again, it's very comparable to Donnelly and Daniels.  He is an amazing character, but saying that "He's with EDI" is only a troll argument is ridiculous.

Edit: If Joker had the legs for it, he probably would've mutinied. 


Your aruments aren't very good. You can romance Trynor or Cortez in ME3. They're a crew characters too. 
BTW "He's with EDI" was a trolling argument because it isn't even a argument, savvy? It's just a crappy phrase.
Read more carefully next time.

Modifié par Elanor1, 26 mars 2012 - 05:16 .


#8738
Sen4lifE

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Elanor1 wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

SilentK wrote...

The Ten Commandments of the Joker Thread[/u][/b]

...
- If you do not agree with a romance, that's fine. So long as you have a good reason and are able to discuss it appropriately, we will be glad to talk with you about it as well.
- Be careful how you phrase things. Simple "Joker's with EDI" or "Shepard will break Joker" seems like trolling. ...


What? "Joker's with EDI" is a very good argument, though not that elaborate.  It sounds to me like you're saying "If you don't agree with me GTFO my thread!" though interpretation isn't implication, so I won't attack that.

Joker isn't a squad character, no matter how lovable he is, she's a crew character, a sidestory.  EDI was originally this, too, but she moved up the latter.  Okay, granted you technically got to play as Joker in ME2.. but still.  EDI and Joker are one of the various side-plots that make Mass Effect immersive.  That would be like saying you should be able to romance Donnelly, or Adams.  Plus, it adds more dimensions to the story when not only Shepard gets in a relationship, but so do the crewmembers around him.  EDI becomes the Normandy, and Joker already loves the Normandy.  They both have everything in common with eachother, yet realistically what would Shepard and Joker have in common?  Joker and EDI are constantly around eachother.  Again, it's very comparable to Donnelly and Daniels.  He is an amazing character, but saying that "He's with EDI" is only a troll argument is ridiculous.

Edit: If Joker had the legs for it, he probably would've mutinied. 


Your aruments aren't very good. You can romance Trynor or Cortez in ME3. They're a crew characters too. 
BTW "He's with EDI" was a trolling argument because it isn't even a argument, savvy? It's just a crappy phrase.
Read more carefully next time.


It is a good argument, you just disagree with it.  It isn't a troll argument, the development of those two characters together forms another subplot which Mass Effect is loved for.  Romancing joker would interrupt this in the first place.  Plus, would you really want to make your ship pissed off and jealous?  I have a feeling the romancing of those two corresponds with the complaints about not being able to romance Kelly.  But again, I bring up Donnelly.  Romancing Donnelly would interfere with the already in place subplot of Donnelly and Daniels.

Not everyone is going to be open to falling into Shepards arms and again, answer the question of compatibility.  Shepard is a warrior, Joker is a pilot and he expresses his distaste of ever being a ground unit even if he were physically capable.  Even if you try, how much humor does Shepard actually express?  Yet in comparison, EDI is an artifical intelligence built around ship piloting which is Joker's first love and she adopted his humor as well as other factors of his personality.  After being freed she developed her personality around joker.  In a way, she is perfect for joker.  Yet how much connection does Shepard really get with joker compared to someone who is ALWAYS around him?  In a real life situation, do you think Shepard would have more connection with the team members s/he was fighting a war with or his/her pilot? Sure his/her pilot has always been there and is an important asset to the team, but while you're away on missions Joker is with EDI every waking moment and again, she adapts (and it hints) intentionally to his personality.  So not only would it interrupt the in-development subplot, it wouldn't be very logical, would it?

Of course it could be implemented, but it'd lead to personal drama between Shepard and EDI and considering EDI is still in development of her personality, it wouldn't be a very good storytelling tool.  And again, you can't expect everyone in the galaxy to fall in love with Shepard.  It would take away immersion by making every single person open to Shepard and not eachother.  The fact that crew members can form friendship and romance bonds between eachother simultaneously with Shepard is more realistic and immersive to the experience of the game.

So before you go off dismissing an argument as bad only because you disagree with it and not because of the context of the arguement, please, "read more carefully."

Modifié par Sen4lifE, 26 mars 2012 - 05:33 .


#8739
Sen4lifE

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On an unrelated note, I don't like how they did joker in Mass Effect 3 model wise. He doesn't bare a lot of resemblance to the Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 1 joker, his face is darker, it looks like he is wearing eye shadow, and he looks more bulky and his body just seems built different. Obviously they're not going to stay the same throughout all the years, but his character was "tweaked" just a little too much. I think they FUBARed the face.

Might have more to do with the lighting mechanics in Mass Effect 3 to Mass Effect 2.  Very upclose the models look very similar, but when actually in use it alters his appearence a little and doesn't realy compliment him.  It doesn't seem to happen to other characters though, so.. /shrug.

Modifié par Sen4lifE, 26 mars 2012 - 05:42 .


#8740
TJX2045

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I was replaying ME1 last week and I died laughing when Joker explained his disease to Shepard for the first time.

"One wrong step and CRACK!!! It's VERY dramatic!"

#8741
danteliveson

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TJX2045 wrote...

I was replaying ME1 last week and I died laughing when Joker explained his disease to Shepard for the first time.

"One wrong step and CRACK!!! It's VERY dramatic!"


He also doesn't like coconut.

#8742
TJX2045

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danteliveson wrote...

He also doesn't like coconut.

Joker's Reputation +15

Modifié par TJX2045, 26 mars 2012 - 06:43 .


#8743
Sen4lifE

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TJX2045 wrote...

I was replaying ME1 last week and I died laughing when Joker explained his disease to Shepard for the first time.

"One wrong step and CRACK!!! It's VERY dramatic!"


It seems like he becomes more capable with each game.  Better treatment?  As in, able to afford more treatment maybe?  Advances in medical science? Who knows.

#8744
0o-Constance-o0

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In from lurking to vent my distress!!

There was alot I didn't understand about the whole Joker/EDI thing and how it was handled. For one, why all the teasing?! Why give the player the option to end their relationship if it's just going to be pursued in private anyway?

I didn't agree with this particular part of the narrative. After flirting with Joker in Purgatory, I was pretty convinced that despite the rejection via "regulations" there would still be a chance at romance, and when Joker starts giving out to Shepard on the bridge, I thought it would lead to more dialogue which would eventually lead to a relationship. But... nothing. Why give us the option if there really is no option in the first place?

Also, why no romance with EDI? Now that would have also been a pretty interesting relationship, with both male and female Shepards; teaching an AI the meaning of love and whatnot.

If it turns out they are saving this stuff for DLC I'll be pretty happy, but as far as my straight female Shepard is concerned, she's pretty lonely :(. I really enjoyed all the shameless flirting with Vega too, and that also lead to nowhere.

Need I reiterate - why give us the option IF THERE IS NO OPTION?!

I can perfectly understand the argument of "well Joker and EDI are a couple just like Ken and Gabby so boo hoo you can't romance them either", but what I don't understand is, why give us the option to flirt with them in the first place if nothing is going to come about?

How come straight male Shepard pretty much gets his pick of the ladies and not straight female Shepard with her pick of men? That is not a good enough excuse for me, and for the first time ever playing a Bioware game, I feel really put out and a little offended. I really hate pulling out the sexism card but dammit-

- As a straight female, I feel a little left out.

Modifié par 0o-Constance-o0, 26 mars 2012 - 08:51 .


#8745
HurricaneGinger

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Celestina wrote...

I thought you guys might enjoy this.

Image IPB

(source)


...Yep. That's exactly what happened to my ovaries. XD


0o-Constance-o0 wrote...

In from lurking to vent my distress!!

There was alot I didn't understand about the whole Joker/EDI thing and how it was handled. For one, why all the teasing?! Why give the player the option to end their relationship if it's just going to be pursued in private anyway?

I didn't agree with this particular part of the narrative. After flirting with Joker in Purgatory, I was pretty convinced that despite the rejection via "regulations" there would still be a chance at romance, and when Joker starts giving out to Shepard on the bridge, I thought it would lead to more dialogue which would eventually lead to a relationship. But... nothing. Why give us the option if there really is no option in the first place?

Also, why no romance with EDI? Now that would have also been a pretty interesting relationship, with both male and female Shepards; teaching an AI the meaning of love and whatnot.

If it turns out they are saving this stuff for DLC I'll be pretty happy, but as far as my straight female Shepard is concerned, she's pretty lonely :(. I really enjoyed all the shameless flirting with Vega too, and that also lead to nowhere.

Need I reiterate - why give us the option IF THERE IS NO OPTION?!

I can perfectly understand the argument of "well Joker and EDI are a couple just like Ken and Gabby so boo hoo you can't romance them either", but what I don't understand is, why give us the option to flirt with them in the first place if nothing is going to come about?

How come straight male Shepard pretty much gets his pick of the ladies and not straight female Shepard with her pick of men? That is not a good enough excuse for me, and for the first time ever playing a Bioware game, I feel really put out and a little offended. I really hate pulling out the sexism card but dammit-

- As a straight female, I feel a little left out.


Ugh, tell me about it. ManShep can have almost anyone, but FemShep?

Garr-bear can only be romanced in ME2.
Thane dies.
Jacob cheats on you.
Then there's Kaidan.
(Since we are talking about straight females, I shall not include Liara.)

So...four male LIs for FemShep, but only two stay true and live throughout ME3. <_<

How many LIs does ManShep have?

Liara
Tali
Ashley
Miranda
Jack

All of which can live. None of them cheat on Shep, or die.

So, I totally agree with you! As a straight female, I feel left out. Joker would have been a perfect addition.

Modifié par PhantomGinger, 27 mars 2012 - 12:38 .


#8746
CDRSkyShepard

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Sen4lifE wrote...

It is a good argument, you just disagree with it.  It isn't a troll argument, the development of those two characters together forms another subplot which Mass Effect is loved for.  Romancing joker would interrupt this in the first place.  Plus, would you really want to make your ship pissed off and jealous?  I have a feeling the romancing of those two corresponds with the complaints about not being able to romance Kelly.  But again, I bring up Donnelly.  Romancing Donnelly would interfere with the already in place subplot of Donnelly and Daniels.

Not everyone is going to be open to falling into Shepards arms and again, answer the question of compatibility.  Shepard is a warrior, Joker is a pilot and he expresses his distaste of ever being a ground unit even if he were physically capable.  Even if you try, how much humor does Shepard actually express?  Yet in comparison, EDI is an artifical intelligence built around ship piloting which is Joker's first love and she adopted his humor as well as other factors of his personality.  After being freed she developed her personality around joker.  In a way, she is perfect for joker.  Yet how much connection does Shepard really get with joker compared to someone who is ALWAYS around him?  In a real life situation, do you think Shepard would have more connection with the team members s/he was fighting a war with or his/her pilot? Sure his/her pilot has always been there and is an important asset to the team, but while you're away on missions Joker is with EDI every waking moment and again, she adapts (and it hints) intentionally to his personality.  So not only would it interrupt the in-development subplot, it wouldn't be very logical, would it?

Of course it could be implemented, but it'd lead to personal drama between Shepard and EDI and considering EDI is still in development of her personality, it wouldn't be a very good storytelling tool.  And again, you can't expect everyone in the galaxy to fall in love with Shepard.  It would take away immersion by making every single person open to Shepard and not eachother.  The fact that crew members can form friendship and romance bonds between eachother simultaneously with Shepard is more realistic and immersive to the experience of the game.

So before you go off dismissing an argument as bad only because you disagree with it and not because of the context of the arguement, please, "read more carefully."


Just saying "Joker is with EDI" isn't an argument. It's a statement of finality. It's one we've heard since back when ME2 came out. It's just not a valid argument, even now that ME3 is out and it can actually happen. It's just about as valid as "Garrus is with Tali." Um, not necessarily.

How your build your Shepard's backstory can determine their compatibility. I think Joker would have a lot in common with a Spacer Shep. I also headcanon that my Shep was a fighter pilot before going to N7 training, so she switched careers before the Blitz. So saying that Shepard wouldn't, under no circumstances, have compatibility with Joker is over-generalizing.

You also bring up that EDI is in the beginning of developing her personality...why would this be a good time for her to be in any romantic relationship? I know that we've said for years now that having EDI in a romance with anyone would be a questionable idea. She's linked in to the Normandy's systems...what if she and Joker had an argument? A bad day? Not sure I'd be comfortable with someone who controls the entire ship having a hissy fit over her boyfriend. You also say that EDI and Joker are always around each other...well, Shep and Joker have served with each other for longer than EDI has even been "alive." Joker risked his Alliance career (something he worked very hard for), came to work for Cerberus because of Shepard, he is incredibly loyal to Shepard, and there is a strong friendship there. You can't deny that would be a good foundation for a relationship.

Not everyone can fall head over heels with Shep, no. However, straight females got screwed on LIs in ME3. If you Virmire'd Kaidan and didn't romance Garrus in ME2, you have absolutely no straight options. None. I'd buy this argument if the LI situation weren't so skimpy in the first place. I don't know why they wouldn't give us more options versus less.

Besides. BioWare knew about our desire to have Joker as a romance option, and not only decided not to give it to us anyway, they decided to give him to the plot device robot. That smarts, no matter which way you look at it.

Edit: I dun wrote grammar good. XD

Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 27 mars 2012 - 01:06 .


#8747
Changer the Elder

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0o-Constance-o0 wrote...
(...)
There was alot I didn't understand about the whole Joker/EDI thing and how it was handled. For one, why all the teasing?! Why give the player the option to end their relationship if it's just going to be pursued in private anyway?
(...)


Because character writing took precedence of sandbox-styled player choice. Sometimes, it happens ;)
And even though I'm not delving into the whole "who-is-right-for-Joker" argument, I'm just going to point out Shepard is the player character and s/he doesn't share TIM's powers. So you can only influence the in-game world around you, not directly control it. It's been like that ever since the first game. The only reason you've noticed with Joker is that it now directly crosses against what you wish as a player :)

#8748
Sleepdribble

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I'm not sure I've ever posted in this thread before, apart from the odd screenshot. But I'd like to get something off my chest, so forgive the intrusion.

I love Joker. But the change in his character in ME3 has left me a little bit sad.

Joker has always been the proud, snarky and intelligent focus of my Shep's cockpit (hurrr..!). And now, sadly, in ME3 I feel like he plays a second-fiddle 'straight man' to Edi, who suddenly gets all the great lines and all the character growth. Alongside Edi, Joker is almost invisible - almost a parody of his original character. How did that happen? I'm willing to bet that if ME1-Joker met ME3-Joker, he'd think he was a bit of a fool.

And its fine if people think that a human being romancing an emotionless, attractively-embodied A.I. adds light-hearted comic relief to the ME3 story. After all, it's a clever way of underscoring the issues concerning self-aware synthetics. But I just wish Bioware didn't make that human being Joker. Joker had developed far too complex a personality in the first two games - been far too integral to the tone of Shepard's story - to warrant a demotion to merely being Edi's 'blumbling boyfriend' in the third game.

*Big Sigh*

Now, on to more depressing things...

I've read this thread back ten pages or so, and I haven't seen this mentioned. Apologies if I missed it.

Today, while playing ME3 for the second time, I came to the part after Thessia where Shepard and Joker have a barney in the cockpit (hurr..!), over Joker's 'inappropriate' jab at the Asari. (One of my favorite scenes in the game, BTW.)Joker reveals that he's concerned about his family in 'Tiptree'. I knew that name rang a bell, but it wasn't until the conversation after that, when I overheard him talking to Liara about his sister Hillary, when the penny dropped.

In Huerto Memorial Hospital on the Citadel, you can eavesdrop on a conversation between an Asari Huntress and a therapist. They talk about a freckle-faced girl called Hillary in a place called Tiptree.




And now I'm off to drown my sorrows in cooking-sherry.

#8749
Erisu

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Sleepdribble wrote...

I love Joker. But the change in his character in ME3 has left me a little bit sad.

Joker has always been the proud, snarky and intelligent focus of my Shep's cockpit (hurrr..!). And now, sadly, in ME3 I feel like he plays a second-fiddle 'straight man' to Edi, who suddenly gets all the great lines and all the character growth. Alongside Edi, Joker is almost invisible - almost a parody of his original character. How did that happen? I'm willing to bet that if ME1-Joker met ME3-Joker, he'd think he was a bit of a fool.
.

That is so true. It seems that Edi has taken all the attention away from Joker and Joker has become a little lapdog that doesn't bark or bite.
Also sad that there was no LI possiblity again with Joker. Two whole games of history together and relationship was left really dry :?

#8750
Sen4lifE

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Image IPB
There is a very simple reason why Joker ignores FemShep

Modifié par Sen4lifE, 27 mars 2012 - 08:12 .