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[Owlowiscious]

Sen4lifE wrote...

There is a very simple reason why Joker ignores FemShep

Well... At least Shepard now has a gift option for EDI... Underwear =)

[Sen4lifE]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

It is a good argument, you just disagree with it.  It isn't a troll argument, the development of those two characters together forms another subplot which Mass Effect is loved for.  Romancing joker would interrupt this in the first place.  Plus, would you really want to make your ship pissed off and jealous?  I have a feeling the romancing of those two corresponds with the complaints about not being able to romance Kelly.  But again, I bring up Donnelly.  Romancing Donnelly would interfere with the already in place subplot of Donnelly and Daniels.

Not everyone is going to be open to falling into Shepards arms and again, answer the question of compatibility.  Shepard is a warrior, Joker is a pilot and he expresses his distaste of ever being a ground unit even if he were physically capable.  Even if you try, how much humor does Shepard actually express?  Yet in comparison, EDI is an artifical intelligence built around ship piloting which is Joker's first love and she adopted his humor as well as other factors of his personality.  After being freed she developed her personality around joker.  In a way, she is perfect for joker.  Yet how much connection does Shepard really get with joker compared to someone who is ALWAYS around him?  In a real life situation, do you think Shepard would have more connection with the team members s/he was fighting a war with or his/her pilot? Sure his/her pilot has always been there and is an important asset to the team, but while you're away on missions Joker is with EDI every waking moment and again, she adapts (and it hints) intentionally to his personality.  So not only would it interrupt the in-development subplot, it wouldn't be very logical, would it?

Of course it could be implemented, but it'd lead to personal drama between Shepard and EDI and considering EDI is still in development of her personality, it wouldn't be a very good storytelling tool.  And again, you can't expect everyone in the galaxy to fall in love with Shepard.  It would take away immersion by making every single person open to Shepard and not eachother.  The fact that crew members can form friendship and romance bonds between eachother simultaneously with Shepard is more realistic and immersive to the experience of the game.

So before you go off dismissing an argument as bad only because you disagree with it and not because of the context of the arguement, please, "read more carefully."

Just saying "Joker is with EDI" isn't an argument. It's a statement of finality. It's one we've heard since back when ME2 came out. It's just not a valid argument, even now that ME3 is out and it can actually happen. It's just about as valid as "Garrus is with Tali." Um, not necessarily.....

They never talk in ME1 or ME2 or much of ME3 (especially because of a dialogue bug in Engineering).

Joker and EDI started off in ME2.

Lot more relationship development there.  I wouldn't put Tali and Garrus' relationship past anything but a "**** it, we're all going to die anyhow"

However, Shepard can develop a relationship with Tali from Mass Effect 1, becoming her friend by helping her with her pilgrimage, and later into an intimate relationship.

Pretty obvious reasons why you can draw Tali away from Garrus.

For the rest.. tl;dr

[Alexander Riker]

Shepard or EDI? Which one is best? Some say that EDI, some of Shepard. I think that Shepard would be the best choice for Joker. Why? Because Joker have Vrolik syndrome and EDi is from Metal. M-E-T-A-L. Rather, once again. M-E-T-A-L. Which is harder than Joker´s bones. Therefore, I want an alternative. Mass Effect was always an interesting thing. Reality! But with this I find it a great sci-fi and also nonsense. That's why I chose the petition. Petition for Joker and Shepard! Joker fans do not interact and believe in your dreams!

Link petition: http://www.change.or...le-male-shepard

Modifié par Alexander Riker, 28 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[viggorrah]

/shamelessself-promotionbecauseI'mbored

Also, that's part of one of my favorite scenes in the game.

[SilentK]

Omega Torsk wrote...

Just had my main MaleShep snap at
Joker after the Thessia mission. Look, there's a time and place for
snarkiness, but bend the great Shepard too far and even he can break. Felt bad afterwards and wanted to apologize, but it's a nice touch of humanity.

Still pretty bitter at how Bioware forced us into accepting Joker/EDI as canon and teased
us with a scenario of what could have been... but apparently, Joker is
such a boy scout that he gives a flying Vorcha's arse about regs
concerning the "chain of command" and yet won't think twice about dating
a hot AI sexbot...

Needless to say, my Diana Shepard is laying the hammer down on that relationship and, even if they sneak it in, I think we all know what choice she's going to make in the end.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Perhaps
not all hope is lost, the only thing Bioware can really do concerning
DLC (other than the "Retake Mass Effect: Alternate Ending" I'm hoping
they will create) is go backwards. Maybe we'll receive a "Paramour
Pack" of additional romances not available in the base game that will
include more in-depth romance interactions with current LI's and ME2
LI's. Maybe Joker will be among the new LI's included in the DLC. When
he's discussing the "chain of command," a renegade interrupt can
persuade him into accepting Joker/Femshep. I'll let you use your
imaginations with that one! XD

And hi, Jokerites!

I would buy that dlc in a hearthbeat, let's hope they do something like that!

PhantomGinger wrote...

Ugh, tell me about it. ManShep can have almost anyone, but FemShep?

Garr-bear can only be romanced in ME2.
Thane dies.
Jacob cheats on you.
Then there's Kaidan.
(Since we are talking about straight females, I shall not include Liara.)

So...four male LIs for FemShep, but only two stay true and live throughout ME3. <_<

How many LIs does ManShep have?

Liara
Tali
Ashley
Miranda
Jack

All of which can live. None of them cheat on Shep, or die.

So, I totally agree with you! As a straight female, I feel left out. Joker would have been a perfect addition.

Jupp, my FemShep is going krogan with the few males who are left.

"Protect the males"  

We really do need one more at least....

Modifié par SilentK, 28 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[SilentK]

Sen4lifE wrote...

SilentK wrote...

The Ten Commandments of the Joker Thread[/u][/b]

...
- If you do not agree with a romance, that's fine. So long as you have a good reason and are able to discuss it appropriately, we will be glad to talk with you about it as well.
- Be careful how you phrase things. Simple "Joker's with EDI" or "Shepard will break Joker" seems like trolling. ...

What? "Joker's with EDI" is a very good argument, though not that elaborate.  It sounds to me like you're saying "If you don't agree with me GTFO my thread!" though interpretation isn't implication, so I won't attack that.

Joker isn't a squad character, no matter how lovable he is, she's a crew character, a sidestory.  EDI was originally this, too, but she moved up the latter.  Okay, granted you technically got to play as Joker in ME2.. but still.  EDI and Joker are one of the various side-plots that make Mass Effect immersive.  That would be like saying you should be able to romance Donnelly, or Adams.  Plus, it adds more dimensions to the story when not only Shepard gets in a relationship, but so do the crewmembers around him.  EDI becomes the Normandy, and Joker already loves the Normandy.  They both have everything in common with eachother, yet realistically what would Shepard and Joker have in common?  Joker and EDI are constantly around eachother.  Again, it's very comparable to Donnelly and Daniels.  He is an amazing character, but saying that "He's with EDI" is only a troll argument is ridiculous.

Edit: If Joker had the legs for it, he probably would've mutinied. 

Ahh.. The please don't say Joker is with EDI comes from before the game came out. People who read leaked material kept coming in here to say plot related things concerning Joker, and Joker and EDI. We put up a big NO SPOILER-tag in the headline and also in the rules. A lot of people in this thread just tried to remain spoiler-free. Hmm... I can remove that scentence so it's less confusing.

The OP will probably stay like this for a little while longer, haven't got time to really work with it right now. And I just don't want to leave it blank. Just so you know    =)

[MissFish]

Sen4lifE wrote...
*snip*

There is a very simple reason why Joker ignores FemShep

Forget Miri's ass, the Reapers obviously came from EDI's cameltoe.

I tried to let Joker and EDI be together today.... I couldn't do it. I cried and had to go cheer myself up by listening to Mordin sing the Krogan princess song. 

Then I let my dogs us my pillow with an iron on transfer of Joker on it as a puppy bed. 
I feel it was appropriate pumishment. 

[viggorrah]

MissFish wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...
*snip*

There is a very simple reason why Joker ignores FemShep

Forget Miri's ass, the Reapers obviously came from EDI's cameltoe.

That mental image...I can handle Miri's ass, but this...

I-I'm sorry. I have to go look at some Shoker art to rid my brain of that.

[outmane]

0o-Constance-o0 wrote...

In from lurking to vent my distress!!

There was alot I didn't understand about the whole Joker/EDI thing and how it was handled. For one, why all the teasing?! Why give the player the option to end their relationship if it's just going to be pursued in private anyway?

I didn't agree with this particular part of the narrative. After flirting with Joker in Purgatory, I was pretty convinced that despite the rejection via "regulations" there would still be a chance at romance, and when Joker starts giving out to Shepard on the bridge, I thought it would lead to more dialogue which would eventually lead to a relationship. But... nothing. Why give us the option if there really is no option in the first place?

Also, why no romance with EDI? Now that would have also been a pretty interesting relationship, with both male and female Shepards; teaching an AI the meaning of love and whatnot.

If it turns out they are saving this stuff for DLC I'll be pretty happy, but as far as my straight female Shepard is concerned, she's pretty lonely . I really enjoyed all the shameless flirting with Vega too, and that also lead to nowhere.

Need I reiterate - why give us the option IF THERE IS NO OPTION?!

I can perfectly understand the argument of "well Joker and EDI are a couple just like Ken and Gabby so boo hoo you can't romance them either", but what I don't understand is, why give us the option to flirt with them in the first place if nothing is going to come about?

How come straight male Shepard pretty much gets his pick of the ladies and not straight female Shepard with her pick of men? That is not a good enough excuse for me, and for the first time ever playing a Bioware game, I feel really put out and a little offended. I really hate pulling out the sexism card but dammit-

- As a straight female, I feel a little left out.

From hindsight, the worst thing BW has done is actually letting you ask Joker why he doesnt want your Shep. His response is totally a lie (cause he's so attached to regs. sure...). Had they left it out, it would have been way easier forpeople who want to headcanon the romance to do so. And every fangirl could have had the fuzzy little feeling that if they could have asked, he would have chosen their Shep over EDI.

Leaving the possibility floating would have been more interesting for more people imo.

[Omega Torsk]

viggorrah wrote...

Omega Torsk wrote...

Just had my main MaleShep snap at Joker after the Thessia mission. Look, there's a time and place for snarkiness, but bend the great Shepard too far and even he can break. Felt bad afterwards and wanted to apologize, but it's a nice touch of humanity.

I love that part. I'm not that far in my main save yet (had to do a speed run through ME2 and hope that his face imported this time; he's not a custom Shepard, by the way. Yeah. The CC was even screwing Sheploo up.) but he's gonna snap at Joker too. They might be best friends /headcanon, but after what happens on Thessia, Ryan's really not in the mood.

Plus if you choose the top choice in the second wheel, Joker will mention that it's his fault that Shepard died and is all "half robot". I really like that part too.

*snip*

The CC is the worst. It's so dark and AGAIN, Shepard can't turn his/her head all the way to the right/left. It stops at an angle. When I notice something irregular about my Shepard's face, it'll bother me until I fix it. Also, is it just me, or are the skin tones lighter this time 'round? I dunno about you, but -3 from the right looks really pale (and that was always the skin tone I chose because it looked Caucasian, but not albino).

But back to Joker. I snapped at him and gave him the renegade response. At that point, my Shep was done being an enabler. However, Bioware wins many cookies because I was able to apologize for yelling at him a couple missions later. It just felt good to do (kind of like how Joker takes it out on Shepard after the Collector abduction, but then takes it back). Adds a dash of humanity to the game (and Shepard).

Modifié par Omega Torsk, 29 mars 2012 - 06:23 .

[MissFish]

viggorrah wrote...

MissFish wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...
*snip*

There is a very simple reason why Joker ignores FemShep

Forget Miri's ass, the Reapers obviously came from EDI's cameltoe.

That mental image...I can handle Miri's ass, but this...

I-I'm sorry. I have to go look at some Shoker art to rid my brain of that.

That's what I had to do when I came up with it. 

[CDRSkyShepard]

Omega Torsk wrote...
The CC is the worst. It's so dark and AGAIN, Shepard can't turn his/her head all the way to the right/left. It stops at an angle. When I notice something irregular about my Shepard's face, it'll bother me until I fix it. Also, is it just me, or are the skin tones lighter this time 'round? I dunno about you, but -3 from the right looks really pale (and that was always the skin tone I chose because it looked Caucasian, but not albino).

*snip*

I could turn my Shep's face all the way to (her) left...and I got a straight-on profile. When  you turn the head the other way, you get the 3/4 profile. I'm glad I played around with my face in the demo, because I came up with Skylar's "official" code, pretty much as perfect as it's gonna get.

[xScarecrowX]

(Kinda a bump) Is anyone else but me thinking of dialogue for a Jokermance?
I'm thinking if they can do the dance with no pants, then they may have to do something like they did with Tali's romance. If that happens, then something on the lines of "As long as we don't do anything too kinky, we're good." comes to mind. If they can't, then something like "Hey, I can still cop a feel." ....Yeah, I'm thinking about this way too much....

[PsyrenY]

Just to note, if you romanced Kaidan in ME1 you get additional dialogue from Joker in the bar scene. When he talks about chain of command, he goes on to say "I'm not Kaidan" or somesuch, explaining that he wouldn't flout the fraternization regs.

[Alexander Riker]

I do not know why, but I still think about Green End. Maybe because it is not adequately explained. But now my mind is one thing. When you select the green end, so Joker disappears Vrolik syndrome?

[Quaay]

I'm still irritated we didn't get Shep&Joker. Joker never seemed to care that much about the regs before. Ugh.

[outmane]

Quaay wrote...

I'm still irritated we didn't get Shep&Joker. Joker never seemed to care that much about the regs before. Ugh.

It kinda almost impliesthat is a fake reason. And thats jsut not who Joker is. Sure he might not be interested in Shep but why say its becasue of regs instead of just owning up to not being interested ?

[0o-Constance-o0]

Alexander Riker wrote...

I do not know why, but I still think about Green End. Maybe because it is not adequately explained. But now my mind is one thing. When you select the green end, so Joker disappears Vrolik syndrome?

I was thinking this too. With the green ending, I presume his cybernetics merge with his being, so maybe he's not so fragile anymore?

I kind of like the idea of everyone becoming a super-human cybernetic android thing.

[Alexander Riker]

0o-Constance-o0 wrote...

Alexander Riker wrote...

I do not know why, but I still think about Green End. Maybe because it is not adequately explained. But now my mind is one thing. When you select the green end, so Joker disappears Vrolik syndrome?

I was thinking this too. With the green ending, I presume his cybernetics merge with his being, so maybe he's not so fragile anymore?

I kind of like the idea of everyone becoming a super-human cybernetic android thing.

Exactly what I thought, but in the final video looks rather not.   Because the Joker in that aspect chdí quite slowly as it was in the mission on ME2. 

[Alexander Riker]

People what is happening? Tired of Joker?

[Quaay]

Not tired of Joker but it's disheartening. His role seems reduced in ME3... maybe it is because I kept him and EDI apart? Was hoping for soooo much more. Even if he wasn't an LI I at least wanted to spend time with him and grow closer but noooo instead all he talks about is EDI. Ugh.

[HurricaneGinger]

Yeah, it is a bit disheartening. I loved the scene where Joker and Shepard snapped at each other, when he admits that he's watching over Shepard. It shows that he cares underneath all those jokes. But that was the only real enlightening scene we got of our beloved snarky man. He is supportive of Shepard but...not in the way we expected. He's focused entirely on EDI, and it reduced his character IMO.

Of course you can tell that Shep and Joker are good friends in ME3, but we were expecting a few more heart to hearts maybe...even if he wasn't a romance, we wanted more time with our friend. But no...felt like my Shepard was a third wheel whenever she walked into the cockpit.

[Alexander Riker]

I know what I'm doing and to get signatures for a petition. Although we have a lot, but we still lack. But I do what I can and not giving up! if you know someone who would come forward and send him a link.
http://www.change.or...le-male-shepard

[Reaperpoo]

Quaay wrote...

Not tired of Joker but it's disheartening. His role seems reduced in ME3... maybe it is because I kept him and EDI apart? Was hoping for soooo much more. Even if he wasn't an LI I at least wanted to spend time with him and grow closer but noooo instead all he talks about is EDI. Ugh.

I thought his role was reduced too, not to get too heavy here but I also always saw him as a positive representation of disability and I think they made a joke of him in ME3 with the Edi romance (I know, I know it's a game character), I don't know, I didn't find him as funny either, maybe because as Quaay says above me, all he talks about is edi.

[SilentK]

PhantomGinger wrote...

Yeah, it is a bit disheartening. I loved the scene where Joker and Shepard snapped at each other, when he admits that he's watching over Shepard. It shows that he cares underneath all those jokes. But that was the only real enlightening scene we got of our beloved snarky man. He is supportive of Shepard but...not in the way we expected. He's focused entirely on EDI, and it reduced his character IMO.

Of course you can tell that Shep and Joker are good friends in ME3, but we were expecting a few more heart to hearts maybe...even if he wasn't a romance, we wanted more time with our friend. But no...felt like my Shepard was a third wheel whenever she walked into the cockpit.

Well yes, it is more Joker+EDI-the duo than Joker. It was a interesting way of introducing synthetic life. We have EDI and Rannoch as major sources to investigate how our Shepard views synthetic life. If they didn't want to leave all of that for Rannoch, they would have to present it in some other way. And there she is, EDI, already onboard the Normandy and everything. So I can see why they did it. A romance between her and Joker get's gives her the opportunity to test out emotions and commitment. But yes, as you say Phantom, there are a few times that you are the 5:th wheel out in the cockpit. We have less Joker, but he get's quite a bit of screentime with Joker + EDI.

I play the game slowly, and has only had time for one FemShep so far. That PT is a bit hazy in my memory because it was so emotional for me, give me a few more PT:s and I'll be better at discussing Joker's role in ME3. Right now I don't have a good memory of his convos other than Thessia. But as far as romance with FemShep goes, that ship has probably sailed as far as see it. It is more put into the romance between Joker and EDI than FemShep and Thane. So, it would be some major things to change for it to work. It could still be done, just see it as unlikely. And I have come to appriciate EDI more as time goes by. Even her outfit. First I was very very irritated by it, but then I remembered Vega. I had no problems with Vega. How does that look, I'm ok with sexy male-pixles but not ok with sexy female-pixles. Was less impressed with myself at that point, prefer to think of myself as a openminded person. So, it's ok EDI, sass around the bridge, I'll just go down to the hangar and... walk around a bit   =)    wouldn't mind less camel-toe though.

I'm just not at a point where I can disuss him too well, because apparently my memory is filled with mothballs, no memory of convos. And I still change my mind about hings quite often. But all in all. I am happy that he plays such a big role in ME3. He got good screentime and is important to my Shepard.