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[The Elder King]

jtav wrote...

Well, what Miranda has in the script is of high quality. Her role is also unfinished in a very obvious way. This could potentially be so much better than ME2. And, truthfully, I'd rather be a Miranda fan than a Tali fan just now.

For something about the leak or only because of the reaction of her position as a squadmate?
In the first case, could you PM me?

[flemm]

wright1978 wrote...
The final part of a trilogy should be about bringing together the strands of the previous 2 games into an epic conclusion. Shouldn't be introducing loads of new characters and utterly sidelining existing characters in order to do so.

Agreed in the sense that none of the arguments about innovation can possibly excuse not doing justice to Miranda.

I think it's fair to wait and see if they do that (have done that, game is finished).

I have high, though, I think, reasonable expectations for what Miranda's role in ME3 should be like, set prior to the leak. I honestly think they can be met, plausibly, in the game, going by what we have seen, now that I have had more of a chance to digest it.

However, I will be very... committed in the event that it is not handled properly. That is the flipside.

Modifié par flemm, 09 janvier 2012 - 06:39 .

[ViSeiRa]

jtav wrote...

Well, what Miranda has in the script is of high quality. Her role is also unfinished in a very obvious way. This could potentially be so much better than ME2. And, truthfully, I'd rather be a Miranda fan than a Tali fan just now.

I was so angry at first, but when things settled down a bit and I put everything in perspective I saw that Miranda got better treatment than most ME2 exclusive squadmates... still a part of me wishes there were more.

I guess we'll have to wait till March for that.

[android654]

jtav wrote...

I wonder what I'd have thought of Miranda if I'd followed the pre-release hype? Probably would have hated her. But I wonder if quotes like that are the reason for the tonal difference in the romance.

I thought the trailer was very loyal to what she eventually turned out to be.



Actually all of the reveal trailers were now that I think about it.

Modifié par android654, 09 janvier 2012 - 06:41 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Well, what Miranda has in the script is of high quality. Her role is also unfinished in a very obvious way. This could potentially be so much better than ME2. And, truthfully, I'd rather be a Miranda fan than a Tali fan just now.

Why that? Is there something fishy going on with Tali?

Not that I disgree with you, mind you, but what has changed that you say "just now"?

[wright1978]

flemm wrote...

Agreed in the sense that none of the arguments about innovation can possibly excuse not doing justice to Miranda.

I think it's fair to wait and see if they do that (have done that, game is finished).

I have high, though, I think, reasonable expectations for what Miranda's role in ME3 should be like, set prior to the leak. I honestly think they can be met, plausibly, in the game, going by what we have seen, now that I have had more of a chance to digest it.

However, I will be very... committed in the event that it is not handled properly. That is the flipside.

I'm a pessimist. I think Bioware thinks throwing a tiny bone to ME2 exclusives is going to cut it. I'll need to see something major to convince that it is going to be a lot better than it currently seems.

[AgitatedLemon]

jtav wrote...

Well, what Miranda has in the script is of high quality. Her role is also unfinished in a very obvious way. This could potentially be so much better than ME2. And, truthfully, I'd rather be a Miranda fan than a Tali fan just now.

Why? Emphasis on the bolded part.

[flemm]

wright1978 wrote...
I'm a pessimist. I think Bioware thinks throwing a tiny bone to ME2 exclusives is going to cut it. I'll need to see something major to convince that it is going to be a lot better than it currently seems.

Well, I don't think we are going to really know until we see the game. But anger at this point is a waste of energy.

When I know, I will react. That is all.

[android654]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Well, what Miranda has in the script is of high quality. Her role is also unfinished in a very obvious way. This could potentially be so much better than ME2. And, truthfully, I'd rather be a Miranda fan than a Tali fan just now.

Why that? Is there something fishy going on with Tali?

Not that I disgree with you, mind you, but what has changed that you say "just now"?

I think it has to do with quality of content. In the span of two games, Tali's content isn't very personal and she's really there for fan service and not really contributing to the narrative or the atmosphere. Miranda was vital to understanding one of ME3's antagonists and ties in directly to TIM. Tali could never have that level of importance, since her inclusion is entirely centered around fan service and not narative cohesion.

[AgitatedLemon]

wright1978 wrote...

flemm wrote...

Agreed in the sense that none of the arguments about innovation can possibly excuse not doing justice to Miranda.

I think it's fair to wait and see if they do that (have done that, game is finished).

I have high, though, I think, reasonable expectations for what Miranda's role in ME3 should be like, set prior to the leak. I honestly think they can be met, plausibly, in the game, going by what we have seen, now that I have had more of a chance to digest it.

However, I will be very... committed in the event that it is not handled properly. That is the flipside.

I'm a pessimist. I think Bioware thinks throwing a tiny bone to ME2 exclusives is going to cut it. I'll need to see something major to convince that it is going to be a lot better than it currently seems.

While I somewhat agree with the message of your post, I'm not sure I go with your tone.

I think you're not giving BioWare enough credit (Coming from someone who bases their entire life around expecting the worst).

To be completely realistic though, we need to actually see the execution before we get pissy.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Well, what Miranda has in the script is of high quality. Her role is also unfinished in a very obvious way. This could potentially be so much better than ME2. And, truthfully, I'd rather be a Miranda fan than a Tali fan just now.

Why that? Is there something fishy going on with Tali?

Not that I disgree with you, mind you, but what has changed that you say "just now"?

I think it has to do with quality of content. In the span of two games, Tali's content isn't very personal and she's really there for fan service and not really contributing to the narrative or the atmosphere. Miranda was vital to understanding one of ME3's antagonists and ties in directly to TIM. Tali could never have that level of importance, since her inclusion is entirely centered around fan service and not narative cohesion.

And amazingly enough, BioWare thinks she's important enough for squad status.

Yes, I'm still bitter. I'll probably always be bitter.

[ViSeiRa]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

flemm wrote...

Agreed in the sense that none of the arguments about innovation can possibly excuse not doing justice to Miranda.

I think it's fair to wait and see if they do that (have done that, game is finished).

I have high, though, I think, reasonable expectations for what Miranda's role in ME3 should be like, set prior to the leak. I honestly think they can be met, plausibly, in the game, going by what we have seen, now that I have had more of a chance to digest it.

However, I will be very... committed in the event that it is not handled properly. That is the flipside.

I'm a pessimist. I think Bioware thinks throwing a tiny bone to ME2 exclusives is going to cut it. I'll need to see something major to convince that it is going to be a lot better than it currently seems.

While I somewhat agree with the message of your post, I'm not sure I go with your tone.

I think you're not giving BioWare enough credit (Coming from someone who bases their entire life around expecting the worst).

To be completely realistic though, we need to actually see the execution before we get pissy.

You have a point there, a script can't do justice to a visual medium, but I'll still maintain my pessimistic stance... the best I can say about Miranda's role is that it has potential, how well they use that potential is gonna make or break the character in ME3.

[flemm]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

To be completely realistic though, we need to actually see the execution before we get pissy.

Well, I've been pissy. I'm not really saying no one should be irritated or angry.

I do think I was as guilty as anyone of overreacting to the leaked info, and that I have a possibly somewhat better understanding of what we are seeing in those text files than I did previously.

So... while I'm sure it won't be perfect, I think it is fair to judge the actual game, rather than the leaked text files from May or June, in which Miranda's role was obviously unfinished.

Modifié par flemm, 09 janvier 2012 - 06:57 .

[AgitatedLemon]

flemm wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

To be completely realistic though, we need to actually see the execution before we get pissy.

Well, I've been pissy. I'm not really saying no one should be irritated or angry.

I do think I was as guilty as anyone of overreacting to the leaked info, and that I have a possibly somewhat better understanding of what we are seeing in those text files than I did previously.

So... while I'm sure it won't be perfect, I think it is fair to judge the game, and not the leaked text files from May or June, in which Miranda's role was obviously unfinished.

That's the exact reason I'm NOT going to judge it yet (Because it isn't/wasn't finished)

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Well, what Miranda has in the script is of high quality. Her role is also unfinished in a very obvious way. This could potentially be so much better than ME2. And, truthfully, I'd rather be a Miranda fan than a Tali fan just now.

Why that? Is there something fishy going on with Tali?

Not that I disgree with you, mind you, but what has changed that you say "just now"?

I think it has to do with quality of content. In the span of two games, Tali's content isn't very personal and she's really there for fan service and not really contributing to the narrative or the atmosphere. Miranda was vital to understanding one of ME3's antagonists and ties in directly to TIM. Tali could never have that level of importance, since her inclusion is entirely centered around fan service and not narative cohesion.

And amazingly enough, BioWare thinks she's important enough for squad status.

Yes, I'm still bitter. I'll probably always be bitter.

SHe has very little personal content, and you're sort of forced to feel bad when her father dies, but since she barely talks about herself and you barely get to know her, its a little hard to feel bad for her in that situation.

The ME2 exclusives (Except for Grunt since he's always in a good mood and is a new born so he has no personal history) talk to you about thier personal lives and history, so their LM's feel better written rather than helping out someone who's acted like an encyclopedia for two games.

But I digress, if done right, Miranda's portion could be amazing from what others have posted here. Still a bit upset that Jack's portion feels a bit ham fisted. The only hope I have left is for Mordin and Thane, hope those turn out well.

[AgitatedLemon]

ViSeirA wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

flemm wrote...

Agreed in the sense that none of the arguments about innovation can possibly excuse not doing justice to Miranda.

I think it's fair to wait and see if they do that (have done that, game is finished).

I have high, though, I think, reasonable expectations for what Miranda's role in ME3 should be like, set prior to the leak. I honestly think they can be met, plausibly, in the game, going by what we have seen, now that I have had more of a chance to digest it.

However, I will be very... committed in the event that it is not handled properly. That is the flipside.

I'm a pessimist. I think Bioware thinks throwing a tiny bone to ME2 exclusives is going to cut it. I'll need to see something major to convince that it is going to be a lot better than it currently seems.

While I somewhat agree with the message of your post, I'm not sure I go with your tone.

I think you're not giving BioWare enough credit (Coming from someone who bases their entire life around expecting the worst).

To be completely realistic though, we need to actually see the execution before we get pissy.

You have a point there, a script can't do justice to a visual medium, but I'll still maintain my pessimistic stance... the best I can say about Miranda's role is that it has potential, how well they use that potential is gonna make or break the character in ME3.

I dunno. I can base a theory on how it may play out, going by the tone from the script, but I won't fully accept it or dismiss it yet.

And I fully agree with you on the "Her role has potential" thing. While I certainly see some areas of extreme promise, but it depends on how they use their resources that will dictate whether or not I like their product.

On that, I can say the exact opposite about Tali. Not only is she unnecessary to any relevant plot points in any of the 3 games (Except ME1), but she actually IS pure fanservice, just look back at Chris Priestly's early posts regarding her squad inclusion.

[wright1978]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

flemm wrote...

Agreed in the sense that none of the arguments about innovation can possibly excuse not doing justice to Miranda.

I think it's fair to wait and see if they do that (have done that, game is finished).

I have high, though, I think, reasonable expectations for what Miranda's role in ME3 should be like, set prior to the leak. I honestly think they can be met, plausibly, in the game, going by what we have seen, now that I have had more of a chance to digest it.

However, I will be very... committed in the event that it is not handled properly. That is the flipside.

I'm a pessimist. I think Bioware thinks throwing a tiny bone to ME2 exclusives is going to cut it. I'll need to see something major to convince that it is going to be a lot better than it currently seems.

While I somewhat agree with the message of your post, I'm not sure I go with your tone.

I think you're not giving BioWare enough credit (Coming from someone who bases their entire life around expecting the worst).

To be completely realistic though, we need to actually see the execution before we get pissy.

I don't see it as being pissy. I think it is about being honest that what is currently in the leaked info is unacceptable to me. No amount of execution can fix that, only content can. Bioware could easily be talking up how large and fantastic ME2 exclusive squaddies roles are if it is significantly different to leak. Casey's quote seemed to edit out Horizon/Liara furore as being real reason people were angry at ME2 launch new characters.

[The Elder King]

android654 wrote...



The ME2 exclusives (Except for Grunt since he's always in a good mood and is a new born so he has no personal history) talk to you about thier personal lives and history, so their LM's feel better written rather than helping out someone who's acted like an encyclopedia for two games.

In the first dialogue with him, he wasn't in good mood. He said that he didn't do anything to acquire strenght, and that he was weak.

Modifié par hhh89, 09 janvier 2012 - 07:06 .

[jtav]

Oh, dear. I seem to have started something. And I'm a Talimancer, albeit an unhappy one.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Well, what Miranda has in the script is of high quality. Her role is also unfinished in a very obvious way. This could potentially be so much better than ME2. And, truthfully, I'd rather be a Miranda fan than a Tali fan just now.

Why that? Is there something fishy going on with Tali?

Not that I disgree with you, mind you, but what has changed that you say "just now"?

I think it has to do with quality of content. In the span of two games, Tali's content isn't very personal and she's really there for fan service and not really contributing to the narrative or the atmosphere. Miranda was vital to understanding one of ME3's antagonists and ties in directly to TIM. Tali could never have that level of importance, since her inclusion is entirely centered around fan service and not narative cohesion.

And amazingly enough, BioWare thinks she's important enough for squad status.

Yes, I'm still bitter. I'll probably always be bitter.

SHe has very little personal content, and you're sort of forced to feel bad when her father dies, but since she barely talks about herself and you barely get to know her, its a little hard to feel bad for her in that situation.

The ME2 exclusives (Except for Grunt since he's always in a good mood and is a new born so he has no personal history) talk to you about thier personal lives and history, so their LM's feel better written rather than helping out someone who's acted like an encyclopedia for two games.

But I digress, if done right, Miranda's portion could be amazing from what others have posted here. Still a bit upset that Jack's portion feels a bit ham fisted. The only hope I have left is for Mordin and Thane, hope those turn out well.

I'll be completely honest.

The only characters I'm actually looking forward to seeing in ME3 are Miranda, Mordin, Thane, and Legion. Apart from them and Wrex, BioWare doesn't really seem to care all that much for anyone else (Not counting squadmates in ME3).

Even then, the only reasons I'm at all psyched for Legion and Mordin are because of BSN's incessant "LOL DEY BOTH R BADASS" fan whining. If BioWare doesn't give them the biggest and baddest of the cameos, then BSN will rouse up a sh*tstorm like no other.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 09 janvier 2012 - 07:09 .

[flemm]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

On that, I can say the exact opposite about Tali. Not only is she unnecessary to any relevant plot points in any of the 3 games (Except ME1)...

Let's not get carried away. She is integral to the Quarian/Geth plot that runs throughout all 3 games.

Anyway, the relevant point, where Miranda is concerned, is that it doesn't really matter if Miranda joins up.

The way the script plays out, her involvement could be excellent and include basically every major thing I would want to see, regardless of her being on the squad.

I might even like it better, for a variety if reasons.

jtav wrote...

Oh, dear. I seem to have started something. And I'm a Talimancer, albeit an unhappy one.

LoL jtav... as if that wasn't what you meant to do in the first place

Modifié par flemm, 09 janvier 2012 - 07:10 .

[android654]

hhh89 wrote...

android654 wrote...



The ME2 exclusives (Except for Grunt since he's always in a good mood and is a new born so he has no personal history) talk to you about thier personal lives and history, so their LM's feel better written rather than helping out someone who's acted like an encyclopedia for two games.

In the first dialogue with him, he wasn't in good mood. He said that he didn't do anything to acquire strenght, and that he was weak.

Yeah, but after that he's nothing but giggles about killing, then he's out of control and needs to kill something. After that, he's just grinning again. That's why I like Grunt, more often than not, he's just in a good mood ready to kill something, and more mature than people several times his age.


OH! Grunt and Miranda romance! Make it happen BW!

[AgitatedLemon]

Let's not get carried away. She is integral to the Quarian/Geth plot that runs throughout all 3 games.

Not really. Her father can do just as much if not more than she can (apart from being on the squad).

The only reason she holds any importance to that is because she's the only important named quarian.

Arguably, Legion is more important than she is, and ironically enough, he's done more in 1 game than Tali has in 2, but I won't go any deeper than that.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 09 janvier 2012 - 07:16 .

[jtav]

The point is: a Shepard/Miranda happy ending will be work. They're going to have to suffer. I like that. She and Tali have flipped roles. Everything that made the Talimance difficult is gone. She's the easy path, like Miranda was.

Modifié par jtav, 09 janvier 2012 - 07:16 .

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
The only characters I'm actually looking forward to seeing in ME3 are Miranda, Mordin, Thane, and Legion. Apart from them and Wrex, BioWare doesn't really seem to care all that much for anyone else (Not counting squadmates in ME3).

Even then, the only reasons I'm at all psyched for Legion and Mordin are because of BSN's incessant "LOL DEY BOTH R BADASS" fan whining. If BioWare doesn't give them the biggest and baddest of the cameos, then BSN will rouse up a sh*tstorm like no other.

I think they're going to have a problem regardless, since every character has a fanbase, they'll have to deal with it once it's out since its too late to go back now anyway.

flemm wrote...
Let's not get carried away. She is integral to the Quarian/Geth plot that runs throughout all 3 games.

Anyway, the relevant point, where Miranda is concerned, is that it doesn't really matter if Miranda joins up.

The way the script plays out, her involvement could be excellent and include basically every major thing I would want to see, regardless of her being on the squad.

I might even like it better, for a variety if reasons.

That could be fulfilled by any other person. If I've got someone on my ship for the entirety of the game I want to know about them, not their people or the other conflicts unless it ties directly to them. Yeah she's from a political family, but she wasn't some veteran of a geth/quarian war, or some engineer who designed the geth and feels some remorse for what happened. Her relevance is by proxy, not like everyone else. If it wasn't for Saren she wouldn't be in the game at all.

Lets hope the script was tweeked to give Miranda maximum exposure while having good dialogue.