82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

That wasn't my point.

Were you suggesting humanity make more synth-humans? That's what I got from it, and that's the dumb part.

Let me ask you this: how can the process that produced Miranda be innately bad?

Modifié par flemm, 09 janvier 2012 - 11:45 .

[AgitatedLemon]

flemm wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

That wasn't my point.

Were you suggesting humanity make more synth-humans? That's what I got from it, and that's the dumb part.

Let me ask you this: how can the process that produced Miranda be innately bad?

The same way I think the genophage was a bad idea.

[jtav]

I think it is innately bad, but I'm a lapsed Catholic who believes in keeping sex and procreation united. However, that war has been lost in the ME-verse. And as a harbinger of the best ending, she works.

[Dr. Doctor]

I'd like some sort of codex entry on cloning in the Mass Effect universe. Jacob and Aria make references to clones but there isn't any real information about them in-game.

[Skullheart]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I'd like some sort of codex entry on cloning in the Mass Effect universe. Jacob and Aria make references to clones but there isn't any real information about them in-game.

I think I'm missing something.

[CrutchCricket]

How do you figure "sperm+egg" was circumvented? You still need a fertilized embryo to grow a human. Fertilized embryo=sperm+egg. The "natural methods" were the only thing that was circumvented.

But hell if that's the better way why stop there? Let's go to the next step:

[MisterJB]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

flemm wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

That wasn't my point.

Were you suggesting humanity make more synth-humans? That's what I got from it, and that's the dumb part.

Let me ask you this: how can the process that produced Miranda be innately bad?

The same way I think the genophage was a bad idea.

Unless you actually explain why you believe the genophage to be a bad idea, that's not very enlightening.

[Dr. Doctor]

When Shepard wakes up Jacob says that he's "pretty sure you're not a clone" Aria mentions that "that could be anyone wearing your face" not exactly mentioning cloning, but it could be in the same vein.

[wright1978]

flemm wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

If I may...

That's one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

*sigh*

It's accurate. Or "engineered," if you prefer. That's not really a controversial statement, it's part of the character's backstory.

Agree completely, in future makes complete sense to change reproduction methods to make more sense and produce desirable benefits such as much improved life expectancy. Think Bioware will be too conservative to push it front and centre though.

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

How do you figure "sperm+egg" was circumvented? You still need a fertilized embryo to grow a human. Fertilized embryo=sperm+egg. The "natural methods" were the only thing that was circumvented.

But hell if that's the better way why stop there? Let's go to the next step:

What is this picture?

[AgitatedLemon]

MisterJB wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

flemm wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

That wasn't my point.

Were you suggesting humanity make more synth-humans? That's what I got from it, and that's the dumb part.

Let me ask you this: how can the process that produced Miranda be innately bad?

The same way I think the genophage was a bad idea.

Unless you actually explain why you believe the genophage to be a bad idea, that's not very enlightening.

On Tuchanka, during Mordin's loyalty mission, he discusses the various ethical implications of the genophage. Th krogan female, his crisis of faith, his blatant admission that true social results were impossible to predict.

His dialogue is a pretty good comparison.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 10 janvier 2012 - 12:16 .

[CrutchCricket]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
What is this picture?

Haven't you ever seen The Matrix?

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
What is this picture?

Haven't you ever seen The Matrix?

Not in, like, a decade or more.

[CrutchCricket]

"There are fields Neo, endless fields where human beings are no longer born. We are grown." -Morpheus

Basically humanity is grown in vats and people live their lives in a virtual reality.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 10 janvier 2012 - 12:13 .

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

"There are fields Neo, endless fields where human beings are no longer born. We are grown." -Morpheus

Basically humanity is grown in vats and people live their lives in a virtual reality.

Oh, yeah. I remember that now.

While the movie was good, that one point really made me shake my head.

[CrutchCricket]

Humans=batteries? Yeah, Executive Meddling and Viewers are Morons at their finest.

[MisterJB]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
On Tuchanka, during Mordin's loyalty mission, he discusses the various ethical implications of the genophage.

His dialogue is a pretty good comparison.

No, it is not. The genophage reduces krogan numbers.
Creating more children the way Miranda was, would increase human numbers, improve our genetic pool and offer hope to women who can't have children the traditional way.

Modifié par MisterJB, 10 janvier 2012 - 12:17 .

[AgitatedLemon]

MisterJB wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
On Tuchanka, during Mordin's loyalty mission, he discusses the various ethical implications of the genophage.

His dialogue is a pretty good comparison.

No, it is not. The genophage reduces krogan numbers.
Creating more children the way Miranda was, would increase human numbers, improve our genetic pool and offer hope to women who can't have children the traditional way.

I worded that wrong.

I mean his dialogue (After trying to convince him that it was wrong) is a reasonably accurate representation on my feelings of it.

I'm not discussing the genophage at all.

2 of his lines in particular caught my eye.

The "crisis of faith" set of lines, and the "true results are impossible to predict" lines.

edit: maybe not so much the actual words, but the tone.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 10 janvier 2012 - 12:21 .

[jtav]

The important thing, narratively speaking, is that Miranda is a human created by technological means, a tentative step toward a synthesis of the organic and the human. She was created the way machines are created. And, in that, she may well be the future of humanity.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

How do you figure "sperm+egg" was circumvented? You still need a fertilized embryo to grow a human. Fertilized embryo=sperm+egg. The "natural methods" were the only thing that was circumvented.

But hell if that's the better way why stop there? Let's go to the next step:

*snip*

Not really sure how the situation in the Matrix is relevant. We're not talking about removing freewill, enslavement, or any such thing.

As for Mr. Lawson's methods, it seems he worked directly on the chromosomes, so there was definitely an element of engineering beyond simple in-vitro fertilization.

wright1978 wrote...

Agree completely, in future makes complete sense to change reproduction methods to make more sense and produce desirable benefits such as much improved life expectancy. Think Bioware will be too conservative to push it front and centre though.

Well, certainly my fears of Miranda becoming a safe, non-controversial character would be removed

Yikes

Modifié par flemm, 10 janvier 2012 - 12:24 .

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...
Not really sure how the situation in the Matrix is relevant. We're not talking about removing freewill, enslavement, or any such thing.

I wasn't talking about that either. I take issue with the statement that this is "the future of humanity". A possibility in the future sure, but "the" future? I think not.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
I wasn't talking about that either. I take issue with the statement that this is "the future of humanity". A possibility in the future sure, but "the" future? I think not.

You mean in the real world? Obviously, I'm not trying to predict the future here. I'm talking about where a specific story may or may not be going.

But anyway, yeah, "a" future, if you prefer. The game has multiple endings in any event.

Modifié par flemm, 10 janvier 2012 - 12:50 .

[android654]

Its the future, there is a huge possibility that we may have bypassed the, need for a uterus or any number of once essential body parts in order to reproduce.

Im A huge supporter of cloning and genetic engineering and both Shepard and Miranda are prime examples that its been mastered.

While it may seem taboo now, I think genetic manipulation will be the way we become better as a species. Not yo mention in this series, it gets us Miranda. Imagine a society of physically perfect people with an intellectual cadpacity you can't even begin to comprehend. The possibilities are truly endless, its a very pragmatic appropach to ridding the world of all of its ills.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

Its the future, there is a huge possibility that we may have bypassed the, need for a uterus or any number of once essential body parts in order to reproduce.

Im A huge supporter of cloning and genetic engineering and both Shepard and Miranda are prime examples that its been mastered.

While it may seem taboo now, I think genetic manipulation will be the way we become better as a species. Not yo mention in this series, it gets us Miranda. Imagine a society of physically perfect people with an intellectual cadpacity you can't even begin to comprehend. The possibilities are truly endless, its a very pragmatic appropach to ridding the world of all of its ills.

While I have no qualms with genetic alteration post-birth, I strongly feel that the actual birthing should (For lack of better wordplay) be natural. Being physically unable to carry child, but still wanting to have a child I could understand, but doing it "for teh lulz" is wrong.

In the case of Miranda, it's all because of her tyrannical father wanting to control a dynasty, so I won't really go into that. If in real life artificial births were to become Miranda-like (Minus her father's motivations), then I would vocally object to it.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 10 janvier 2012 - 12:40 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Quick thought:

What genre of movie does anyone imagine Miranda would enjoy?

I'm thinking a Bond-esque action movie.